Talk:Guantanamera

Untitled

Since the three versions that have been listed are all basically the same it's pointless to have them all. I'm sure Julio and Juilan sing them very differently, but since we can't hear them here it does us no good to compare them. The entire original poem without comments or translation would belong in wikisource, if anywhere, and under its correct name, not Guantanamra, which is based on it. Likewise it is useless for an English encyclopedia to have this much untranslated Spanish. So I'm deleting the redundancies, again. -R. fiend 22:03, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

• gratuitous anality and self-appointed hairsplitters impede the wondrous superfluity, redundancy, and quirkiness that gives wikipedia its charm and value, and distinguishes it from the bland corporate alternatives like Britannica and Encarta, IMHO

Guajira Guantanamera

Guantanamera means a girl from Guantanamo.

What does "guajira" mean? It was excluded from the translation for some reason... Thanks! --AC.

• evidently, in French, it means ma ville, HTH

Guajira is a colloquial term used in Cuba for a country girl.

Correct. The song/poem is addressed to the girl the "country girl from Guantanamo." I think this should be in there to put the song in context. Murcielago 22:42, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

• Guajira is also the style of music.—BassBone (my talk · my contributions) 02:05, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

See my comment about this ambiguity in the text of the article. Demf 18:07, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

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I am forced to write this because I needed to quickly print out information regarding this subject for my Spanish class (I am a college teacher) and found the content of this article totally inadequate, so I had to do it myself.

The writers of this article have either not bothered to do their research regarding the origins of this song or have just plainly made it all up off the top of their heads. Regardless of who the writers are, please take the time to seek out the facts in your libraries or on the internet the meaning of "guajira guantanamera" and you will find out much of this article will have to be deleted and completely re-written, for the sake of maintaining the integrity of Wikipedia.

First, "guajira" (or "guajiro", in the case of a man) are words of Caribe (native American tribe) origin from northern Colombia. The Colombian province located in the northeast coast bordering Venezuela is to this day called "Departamento de La Guajira". In Cuba, guajira and guajiro are used as nicknames for rural or country folk, just as "hillbilly" is used in the U.S.

As Cuban musical history developed, there developed a FORM of traditional country music called a "guajira", also known in Cuban popular culture as a "decima", referring to the traditional Spanish ten-line poem used to frame the Cmaj, Fmaj, Gmaj musical chord struture it employs, and the structure ABAB. A "Guajira" is sung folk music, and can be played alone or in groups of unlimited number, and to this day the decimas are often improvised. This form of music is quite alive in Cuba and in Miami to this day, and is a popular pastime in both the country and in cities. Men and women challenge each other to see who could come up with on-the-spot poetic improvisation.

As someone wrote later on in this article, Guantanamera similar in structure to the Mexican song "La Bamba", which structurally speaking is a traditional guajira. La Bamba is a traditional folk song from Yucatan, closer to Cuba than to to Mexico City. Another more recent example of that musical structure is "Twist and Shout" by the Isley Brothers, later covered by the Beatles.

"Guantanamera" composer Joseito Fernandez clearly wrote the song to have a double meaning, referring both a woman, and as an anthem to the music genre, which by the time he composed "Guantanamera" in 1930 was already an ancient form of music.

Look up this link on You Tube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqC-dcpZIOU , and you will see Joseito Fernandez HIMSELF singing about the origins of the guajira and the decima. Continue to explore You Tube using the search phrase "Decima Cubana" and you will feast your eyes and ears with various videos of Cubans playing their venerable country music.

I would be happy to insert all this information in the article, but I cannot do it due to an immense lack of time, so please, someone, do the research and clean it up? Thanks. Marco Medrano, Professor of Spanish and History, Miami Dade College, Miami, Florida. 65.3.252.99 (talk) 15:14, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Patriotic, but political?

Is this song most often invoked by supporters of the current government, or the opposition (in Cuba and abroad), or equally by both, or neither? Basically, my question is, does this song have any particular political association today, or is it just generally patriotic? (I realize that Marxism is against patriotism, but as far as I known Castro has not espoused that particular element of Marxism)

I suspect it is like Marti himself - espoused by both. Though I am not sure it is seen as especially patriotic in Cuba. -- Beardo 05:18, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

My Spanish teacher told me that it was used by supporters of Castro to compare the glorious life lived by those wealthy enough to live in Guantanamo to the life of the impoverished, but the lyrics don't exactly make sense with that interpretation. However, the song Guantanamera is absolutely a song of Castro's supporters, not the opposition.Emmett5 04:24, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Celia Cruz a Castro supporter ? Nana Mouskouri ? Julio Iglesias ? Could there be different lyrics to the same tune ? -- Beardo 05:13, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Naaaah, the Guantanamera is as popular and as flexible in Cuba (and elsewhere) as La Bamba is in Veracruz, Mexico and elsewhere. It is so simple in its musical structure that any set of 4-verse octosyllabic lyrics in Spanish can be adapted to it. Pro- as well as anti-Castro. It has become a universal song. Demf 05:29, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks - and thanks for your recent additions. It would be great if you could add a few references, as that is something this article is lacking at the moment. -- Beardo 13:01, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Traditional folk music everywhere is open to all human themes often used to convey a social or political message. Woody Guthrie, Bob Dylan, Joan Baez and others have used American folk music to convey social or political statements. Same thing can be done to Cuban music or any other music. Medrano, Spanish and History Professor, MDC, Miami, Florida. 65.3.252.99 (talk) 15:25, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I can say with absolute confidence that this song is general enough to not be tied to whether or not you are pro- or anti-Castro. That notion to me even sounds ridiculous. We sing this song in Miami for fun at parties and you can bet our community is anti-Castro. I have immediate Cuban family and can say from experiences growing up and experiences today. ~ digx t·c 19:46, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Lyrics

We can't post the lyrics in the article, since the song is presumably still copyrighted. — BrianSmithson 09:31, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Is it ? Marti died 111 years ago - so his verses aren't, surely ? -- Beardo 11:12, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Idunno. The article says it was written in 1929, which is copyright territory. If there are older verses, I guess they would be okay. — BrianSmithson 16:01, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Of course - those versions were in Spanish. I am not sure about the copyright status of the English translastion that we were using. -- Beardo 19:15, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

If they were translations, they would be derivative works, which are also not allowed (unfortunately). All that said, I Am Not a Lawyer. :) — BrianSmithson 22:21, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

The words are a 19th century Jose Marti poem. How can they be copywrited?--Zleitzen 00:35, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

The first and third verses are Marti http://oldpoetry.com/opoem/46409-Jose-Marti-A-Sincere-Man-Am-I---Verse-I- and http://www.wosib.org/translators/poems/poem3.htm, the chorus isn't - but once would surely be fair use. The other two verses ? And is the process of picking a couple of bits of Marti a copyright-able process ? -- Beardo 01:18, 13 December 2006 (UTC) (PS must split the film off from this).

That makes sense; the chorus is okay fair use. I'd be careful about the other verses, though. -- BrianSmithson 01:35, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

There's Simple Verse V - http://es.wikisource.org/wiki/Versos_sencillos_%28J._Mart%C3%AD%29:_V. and III http://es.wikisource.org/wiki/Versos_sencillos_%28J._Mart%C3%AD%29:_III So i) is the process of picking out four verses copyrightable and ii) what translations are we using ? -- Beardo 02:18, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Non sequitur

Ok, folks, what am I missing here?

"she did have a romantic interest in him, but merely a platonic one"

Isn't this, like, an impossibility? 216.199.161.66 20:24, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Has a "not" gone walkies ? -- Beardo 08:42, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Many people think there is such a thing as a "platonic romance", with "platonic" meaning "non-sexual"; that's a widely used term. I read the article as saying that she liked him but didn't want to have sex with him. 216.59.230.140 16:57, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

A lyrical complaint about a coquette seems about right for a macho Latino nation. Knock the "not" & risk losing the plot.

merge

Please note : There is a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Songs/coverversions with the purpose of trying to establish a standard rule for merge/separate different versions of the same song. Please make known your feelings on the matter. --Richhoncho (talk) 15:16, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Carmín

Carmín would most correctly translate as Carmine. Crimson is more poetic in English, but would be carmesí. They both ultimitely derive from the Persian word qirmez (red). - Parsa (talk) 08:54, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

"One-ton Tomato"

This song is the root inspiration for a common parody, namely, singing the chorus as "One-ton Tomato", followed by "I need a one-ton tomato" or "I eat/ate a one-ton tomato". Just wondering if this fact warrants an entry on the main article, or if that is too off-topic? RickSustek (talk) 01:16, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

History section is incomprehensible

The two paragraphs both assume that a different person was the author of the song and they do not make clear at all which verses they apply to. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.139.87.74 (talk) 12:15, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

I considered editing the history section... but that would require real interpretation. It's hard to say what someone was trying to write. One would really have to research this (and the sources sited are not enough) and just re-write the whole history (and lyrics) section. 75.48.21.125 (talk) 04:52, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

José Martí

I changed the name of the section about the lyrics and moved the part about José Martí closer to the top. I also did something else (I moved a comma or something... a little fix of some sort). At any rate, Martí is important and should not be presented as an afterthought. 75.48.21.125 (talk) 04:34, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Deletion

I deleted what was, essentially, a big advertisement for one performer's version of the song, which went on about the album etc. This, by the way, was far from a famous version and its inclusion, let alone its spotlighting (and the amount of real-estate it took up on the page) was uncalled for.

I think, though, it would be nice to have a little more about this song and some more research should provide someone with some interesting information. The article is too short (it was a shame to edit out ANYTHING, but it had to be done). 75.48.21.125 (talk) 04:50, 20 February 2011 (UTC)