Talk:Sun

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color and emphasis

I really think its important that we focus on these two things a bit more in the article. Not that I think sections need to be erected, but that certain wordings need to be altered.

First of all, I don't believe that 'white' is a color. Black and white are essentially the 'off' and 'on' state of rods and cones. Black is the lack of light and white is a perception overflow of light. Open and closed, they are only the representation of light & according to modern physics, photons are not color. Photons become entangled with other particles and CARRY the color along with them. Therefore, 'white' isn't a 'color' and the sun is actually YELLOW - GREEN 7 NOT WHITE.

Secondly, I do not believe there is enough emphasis put on the fact that the surface observations of the sun are not advanced enough to determine what lies beneath. If the sun emits photons, it is entirely possible that the photons generate the heat observed from the sun and the fusion is actually cold. We speak of the sun as though it is a burning ball of fire, but the oxygen content is lacking, thought it could be that it is burnt away, it still doesn't change the fact that you would need to penetrate the corona in order to get accurate readings. It very well could be that underneath a fusion layer we could find an condensate ocean, surrounding a ball of ice, that encases a super cooled gas sphere. But, we can not know this for sure, and that is my point. Lawstubes (talk) 02:05, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Please read white#light. For your second bit, we use reliable sources to determine "emphasis" or whatever - and please read WP:NOTAFORUM. Vsmith (talk) 03:16, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

As Sheldon Cooper reminds us, it could be that inside every black hole there's a little man with a flashlight looking for a circuit breaker. But unlikely. SBHarris 18:41, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Re:"We speak of the sun as though it is a burning ball of fire, but the oxygen content is lacking, thought it could be that it is burnt away,". Erm, the "burning" is nuclear fusion, not oxidation - there isn't, and never was, any oxygen involved. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 18:44, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

The metallicity is wrong

The value of the metallicity give in the table on the right is wrong. I dont mean that the source cited is false, but the value depicted is not the metallicity (Z) but the ratio Z/X which is not the metals mass fraction over total mass (definition of Z) but the metals mass fraction over the hydrogens mass fraction! The value given by the article that's cited is 0.0133. 90.40.241.68 (talk) 20:46, 4 January 2011 (UTC)Panos_Strasbg

I changed the infobox to cite Z=0.0122 from Asplund et al. (2006). Unfortunately, this is not consistent with the elemental abundances at the bottom of the box. New 3-D models of the Sun's atmosphere have lowered estimates of Z which perhaps led to confusion. Spacepotato (talk) 21:39, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

"About"

This word is used nine times in the lead (and fifty seven times in the article), can anything be done to cut a few of them out?--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 05:35, 15 January 2011 (UTC) you all know maybe a lies —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.218.241.208 (talk) 20:38, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Solar abundance problem

It would be great if someone has time to add a section on the solar abundance problem which, I think it is fair to say, has replaced the neutrino problem as THE unsolved problem in solar physics. Timb66 (talk) 12:11, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Mapping

Important info needs to be added in that the Sun's surface has finally been mapped. No CGI here. How as well. Simply south...... 12:35, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

I have removed the out-of-date tag. Please give more details and sources for your assertion.Timb66 (talk) 19:37, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Recent reports on two space probes orientating around the sun have mapped out what the sun's surface has looked like. Maybe not quite the right tag to use. See here and here. Simply south...... 19:52, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

OK, thanks. Yes, the results from the Stereo spacecraft are noteworthy, but note they are the latest in a succession of spacecraft dedicated to studying the Sun, such as SOHO, TRACE, Ulysses. I don't think the out-of-date tag was justified here. Better to add some links. Timb66 (talk) 23:04, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

SUN DOES NOT "PUT OFF" LIGHT/HAS NO COLOR!!! (i know, but fight that initial emotion)

Archived as pointless

I've already tried to fix this. The sun doesn't 'emit' light, nor does it have color. Get it right! The sun is technically a 'dark body'! All it does is interact with the surroundings and create waveforms/frequencies that take on the appearance of what we call 'light' or 'color'. The sun does this with friction/heat. In actuality, it is the suns manipulation of the space/time around it that creates the valleys in space/time that allow the pathway light occupies. It is nothing but the suns own mass & the vastness of the rabbit hole (aka the universe) that generate this phenomena, the sun emits nothing but super massive clouds of matter, mostly hydrogen & helium. It's (the sun) TRUE color is most likely BLACK or CLEAR because it does not 'create' light or color, but is part of their INDUCTION from space/time. Pure white light is simply the polar opposite of 'dark/matter' which is something like 'light/in-matter'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.218.85.222 (talk) 19:25, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

No.--Xession (talk) 19:27, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

go back to school.

color and light are simply the physical function of translating non-physical forces that connect us to other potentially physical bodies. or the sun.

light has no mass and therefore can not be a function of motion, as it does not exist physically. It is an inductive force created within an empty space, a whirlwind. The sun is only half the equation when one is talking about the color of it/the light.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.218.85.222 (talk • contribs) 19:33, 11 February 2011

What Xession said. And while we're on the topic, you're thinking of a black body, not a dark body, and a black body is something which does not reflect light, not does not emit light. As for the Sun not "emitting light", how you can even say that with a straight face is beyond me. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 19:35, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm not going to offer a chemistry or physics lecture on the discussion board of the Sun, but the sun does emit light and it does this by having trillions of trillions of hydrogen and helium atoms in a hightened energy state. A simple observation of such a phenomenon, albeit at a much lesser level of energy, can be seen on Earth easily by looking at neon lights.--Xession (talk) 19:38, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Listen, I don't want to make you think I'm attacking you. But chemistry is different than physics.

But I can say the sun doesn't have color with a straight face, because we are saying it does with a straight face, and that is scientifically retarded to say because it isn't provable scientifically. Until we have better INSTRUMENTS to test these claims, there will be no evidence! So I'm going to speak up and say the contrary.

in a pitch black room, a light bulb is black. Turn it on, and all of a sudden you are given the illusion that the bulbs color has changed, but there is an inherent barrier. The light blinds you to the true color of the bulb.

The light does not stop when the sun sets, so there is no experiment to tell that the sun is actually emitting the light.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.218.85.222 (talk • contribs) 19:49, 11 February 2011

Firstly, this is certainly within the realm of both physics and chemistry; they are not mutually exclusive. Secondly, there are thousands of scientists currently and in the past, that would disagree entirely with you. As such, your claims are to be taken as opinion only and would not and should not be included in an encyclopedia that intends to help any curious person learn about the universe around them. Offering speculation on the topic benefits no one and in actuality, only serves to disrupt and confuse people. Lastly, I'd prefer if this discussion ended, as you are becoming somewhat belligerent. I don't mean to suppress your opinion, nor do I wish to base a counter claim. However, this is not the place to do either. --Xession (talk) 19:53, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Folks! Please do not feed the trolls, nor argue with the mentally disturbed. I'm going to erase this section in a day or two, unless somebody gives me a good reason why it should stay. It does not advance our work here. SBHarris 22:48, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Please, do not erase this. His discussion, while maybe misdirected, is not necessarily trolling. To call him mentally disturbed is rather despicable and really does a disservice to the professionalism that should be maintained on Wikipedia. Do I agree with his point of view, or his actions in conveying it? No, I do not. However, I would never consider his position invalid from an opinionated perspective. He has since ended the discussion, as per my request, and it seems only logical to leave this discussion at that ending point. Lastly, deleting this discussion does nothing to promote discussion on Wikipedia either. In fact, I would rather suggest that it would stifle much of the possible discussion, however misdirected, that could possibly encourage further understanding of a particular topic, either by a confused reader, or by a presumptuous editor.--Xession (talk) 22:56, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

What I'm trying to get across is that there are a few major things that should be incorporated into the page. Most of these tidbits have everything to do with a restructuring of most (IMO) scientific wikipedia pages, but that is a different story. The things that are obvious are that the origin of light in the universe is as yet undefined & the sun is so vast & so far away that the behavior of light and the observation of the sun itself is flawed due to the fact that from our perspective, there is no way to know if our readings are distorted by layers and layers of solar activity.

Simply put, for all we know, the sun could be cold on the surface & only appears to be hot because there are billions or trillions or more layers of fictive activity surrounding the sun, thus making it impossible to tell what the actual temperature is. Furthermore, the behavior of light itself could be a problem, as solar bodies as bright as the sun may only 'appear' to be at the distance they seem to be because of the nature of light & since the sun is the only object like the sun that we are able to observe, questions must naturally arise pertaining the physical location of the sun and how accurate our measurements are.

I do not imply that I believe our entire perception of the sun is wrong, but it is obvious that the wording of this and many other scientific wikipedia pages is far from skeptical. IT is not our duty as editors to promote onesidedness.

furthermore, light itself is an elementary particle. Photons are without mass and charge. Photons only spin. Current physics is telling us that light is not 'emitted' by anything and only exists in all space & all time at once. It is like the classic Einstein interpretation. If you were to accelerate to the speed of light, your mass would become infinite. Light packets knows as 'photons' are simply a 3d interpretation of what light really is & in the case of the sun, are not a product of a celestial body, but are created by an act of perception. That is, that the observation of a particle creates what we call light, and the light itself is simply some kind of cosmic foundation. If we imagine the quantum strong force as a kind of micro-gravity, it is easy to see why 'light' exists. Where the strong force compresses all matter, light escapes and appears to illuminate the darkness that was compressed... This is just my interpretation, but I only present it as a means to an end.

Some pages require polarization.

Fight the urge to attack me like an enemy. There seems to be a lot of that here. To many 'free' workers acting like they deserve some kind of respect they haven't earned & can't earn, not here at least. We're all equals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.218.85.222 (talk) 16:11, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

I know I may come off like a troll, I'm going to try to keep this as little like a forum as possible. I mean, if someone wants to put a forum code in here for discussion, that would be appreciated, I will if no one has by my next update. I'm going to try to post as much relevant info as I can, but please don't just shrug me off as some kind of nut. I'm not a troll & I'm not going to edit the page until I've presented actual usable citations and we have worked together on how to best present the most recent scientific information pertaining to the sun & light and physics in general. I don't want to give people seizures over all this. It's supposed to be interesting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.218.85.222 (talk) 16:16, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

As per your point about the lightbulb being black, consider this: It's not black, you just can't see its actual color because there is no light reflecting off of said color. That's why there are different colored lightbulbs you can buy, because when light reflects off something it shows its color. This may seem like elementary stuff, but it seems to be something that got overlooked. Just my input on this argument. 74.32.239.125 (talk) 15:55, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Today's knowledge

Can we add in that this knowledge about the sun is only today's knowledge of astronomy and space and is not confirmed? There is no reason to get children scared about living in the current world and they shouldn't feel they are living on a ticking time bomb. The current knowledge of stellar evolution will more likely change over their lifetime. Sunshinekind (talk) 03:24, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not going to qualify every statement of scientific understanding with "according to current consensus, which might change." (That is implicit.) Nor is Wikipedia written to avoid scaring kids - but if it was, we might first want to address, say, the article on Jeffrey Dahmer. A threat that's about 5.5 billion years in the future is just about the last thing that would need to be "softened." Jeh (talk) 04:09, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

I understand that Wikipedia doesn't need to explain every scientific theory. But from what I know about science (I grew up in a family of scientists) you still need to mention it as a theory (eg Big Bang Theory) as it cannot been scientifically proven as fact. I'm not against all the work astrophysicists have done to try and solve the mystery, I just think the stellar evolution of the sun should be seen as current theory. Just remember once upon a time we used to 'know' the earth was flat - but we were clearly wrong. Sunshinekind (talk) 09:34, 5 March 2011 (UTC)