Talk:The Deer Hunter

Extended cast list

Wikipedia is not IMDB. I'm excising the hilariously comprehensive credits list, which otherwise comprises more than half the page's length. R 17:23, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Drug abuse?!

in the summary it says the film deals with drug abuse and infedelity, but i cant remeber it doing so? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.5.82.197 (talk) 15:03, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I do see substance abuse, and it's simply just with alcohol. Changing it to alcohol abuse. --Philosophistry (talk) 06:58, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Actually, yes, that's right, Christopher Walken's character has needle marks on his arm. But I don't believe the movie "deals with drug abuse" or even alcohol abuse for that matter. Going to nix that part entirely. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Philosophistry (talk • contribs) 07:00, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

controversy/error exaggerated

The article lists the hunting of elk as a significant error given the title of the film. This is contentious, as many species of animals are referred to as being part of "the deer family". This rubric covers moose, wapiti, caribou and elk. Colloquially, many American hunters refer to the hunting of elk as a form of deer hunting, especially in the 1970s. Thus, there is no error or discrepancy in the film.

If there is no reasonable objection, then this passage may be edited to remove the erroneous criticism.

Meryl Streep Filmography?

Considering how unlikely it is you'd think of her name first when referencing this film, plus that fact that none of the other more prominent actors have their filmographies at the bottom, it seems incongruous that Streep's should be placed at the bottom. Unless someone has a good reason I'm removing it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.106.36.168 (talk) 19:14, 26 February 2007 (UTC).

The Deer Hunter is included in Streep's filmography based on its significance to her career, not her prominence in the movie. She got her first Oscar nomination from her work here, so it should definitely be included. --SHODAN 15:46, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

The Dear Hunter

Currently, there is a band named The Dear Hunter (note the spelling). I understand there also is a band named Deerhunter, but that's not about whom I'm talking. I would like to compose an article, but the phrase "The Dear Hunter" redirects the the user to this page. Is it possible to not have the phrase "The Dear Hunter" redirect to this page? Radar123 03:27, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Filming locations repeated in intro AND separate section

Should one of them be cleaned out? I'm inclined to take off the part of the intro part, since the 'red llght section of Saigon' becomes clearer if one has read the plot already. --131.207.236.198 12:34, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Plot summary

I wonder why the plot summary is divided into three "acts." Is there any authorial (i.e., Cimino) warrant for it, or is it merely a contributor's whim? In terms of the film's structure, I suggest that Mike's return to Saigon is definitely an "Act four." pmr 11:03, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Rusyn or Russian?

Why does the article begin by describing the main characters as Rusyn American (i.e. Carpatho-Rusyn), then later describes them as Russian? These are distinct geographical, linguistic, and cultural groups. Badagnani 01:15, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Plus ça change ... Why does the article now begin by describing the main characters as "Russian American", then later describes them as "Ukrainian-American"? -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 09:24, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

I changed it to Russian American. That is what given sources claim. See also my question below. Svick (talk) 13:51, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

The truth of the matter is that the filmmakers themselves have added to the confusion. The movie is in fact about Rusyn Americans, but some of the cultural elements (songs during the wedding) and some of the dialog (mother and the priest) are Russian. My guess is that the filmmakers wanted to present a culture more accessible to the intended audience, or at least one they could more easily identify, i.e. Russian. Fact still remains that it is the Rusyns who emigrated in large numbers into northeastern states (especially Pennsylvania) where they found employ in the mines and steel mills. I hope this clears up confusion and I would like if my editing into Rusyn instead of Russian American stood up. Thank You. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vladimir Skala (talk • contribs) 20:05, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Mike and Nick Confusion

In the act two summary, it says that Nick thinks Steven to be broken, when really it is Michael who wants to leave Steven (and is trying to encourage Nick to get tough). Someone should change this. 23:37, 6 January 2008

"Di di" mau

I'd like to point out that at no time does any Viet Cong say di di mau, like every english website on the subject says. Any help in finding what they really say would be appreciated. "Lay sung mau" or "gum su mau" have been suggested by unreliable sources, the only two sources I can find that don't say "di di" mau. "Gum su mau" is the closest sounding to what they actually say.

I don't know if the trivia section will ever be revived, but it's worth mentioning that all sorts of people referencing the movie like the Simpsons got it wrong. 69.220.2.188 (talk) 22:17, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Deerhunterweddinglc.jpg

Image:Deerhunterweddinglc.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:36, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

what the hell is end stage bone cancer?

it should be N-Stage, probably N1 since that is the metastatic stage 08:14, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

"End-stage" means the final stages of the disease. It doesn't have anything to do with TNM classification; it's also used with liver disease, renal disease, etc. KathL (talk) 21:27, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Plot summary...

I saw pmr's comment on the "act" sections & I'd like to open a discussion on the plot summary itself. The summary is TOO LONG. Needs to be cut down & the POV statements that speculate about theme need to be taken out; this isn't a film class essay on the film. Also, the sects labeled "act" need to be rmvd, they are generally discouraged. Tommyt (talk) 20:06, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

You couldn't be more right. Too long, and too full of POV and OR. Tool2Die4 (talk) 18:30, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

It reads like an 8th grade book report. Just ridiculous. 64.81.54.89 (talk) 11:41, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Not realizing it's loaded?

The article says:

He also berates Stanley for carrying around a small revolver and waving it around, not realizing it is still loaded.

Really? I was under the impression he just didn't care that it was loaded. I don't think it was the case that he was unaware.

Also, grammatically, it should probably say "not *recognizing* it is still loaded." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mjkeliher (talk • contribs) 01:17, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Info pertaining to the director's subterfuge

The following information was copied from the Wiki article on Cimino. I find it very useful to understand the overblown reception the movie recieved at the time of it's release. I am a Vietnam veteran who found the movie to be awfully bogus, yet many critics and audiences at the time seemed to think it was a genuine depiction of the experiences of real veterans.

Age Cimino has given various dates for his birth, including 3 February 1939, 3 February 1943, and 16 November 1943. The Wiki article on him states that he graduated from Westbury High School on Long Island in 1956 which shows that the later dates are false. Since he was born in 1939 he would have been 29 at the time of the Tet Offensive. It is clear that he never served in Viet Nam, and that his active duty was only a few months in the Army Reserve before the Vietnam war began. The movie was not based on his experience (nor on anyone else's); yet, the reception at the time proclaimed it an authentic story of the Vietnam war. Wiki also informs us that Cimmino did not show up at the Academy Awards ceremony after his request to be there surreptiously wasn't granted. During the production of The Deer Hunter, Cimino had given co-workers (such as cinematographer Vilmos Zsigmond and associate producer Joann Carelli) the vague impression that much of the storyline was biographical, somehow related to the director’s own experience and based on the experiences of men he had known during his service in Vietnam. Just as the film was about to open, Cimino gave an interview to The New York Times in which he claimed that he had been “attached to a Green Beret medical unit" at the time of the Tet Offensive of 1968. When the Times reporter, who had not been able to corroborate this, questioned the studio about it, the “suits” panicked and fabricated “evidence” to support the story.[3] (Universal Studios president Thom Mount commented at the time that "I know this guy. He was no more a medic in the Green Berets than I’m a rutabaga.")[citation needed] Four months later, however, Tom Buckley, a veteran Vietnam correspondent for the Times, would corroborate that Cimino had done a stint as an Army medic, but also discovered that the director had never been attached to the Green Berets, and that his active service – just six months in 1962 – had been as a reservist who never deployed to Vietnam.[4] Cimino’s publicist reportedly said that he intended to sue Buckley, but he never did. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.212.117.236 (talk) 18:40, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Allmovie

• The Deer Hunter at AllMovie ... plot synopsis, review, cast, production credits, awards

Reference available for citing in the article body. Erik (talk) 20:16, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Nationality of the protagonists

It seems editors can't agree whether the protagonists are Rusyn American, Russian American or Ukrainian American. Can someone clarify this? Both references of that claim say they are Russian American (the third reference to Encarta is a dead link). Is that right? Svick (talk) 20:12, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I dimly remember them being Rusyn and their church being Ruthenian Catholic, but it's been a long time since I've seen the film. The link to the Auster book is also dead, and after reading the remaining source, I'm fairly sure that most reviewers couldn't be bothered to ask if they were Rusyn or Russian, especially since (frankly) your average American isn't aware that the Rusyns even exist. I do recall that an old textbook of mine, which had a section on Vietnam movies, called them some kind of Eastern Catholic, so perhaps it might be better to ditch the sources and call them Rusyns anyway. Lockesdonkey (talk) 15:21, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

IMDb references

RepublicanJacobite deleted nearly all of the IMDb references for this page. The user is correct that IMDb is not a completely reliable source of (especially for notes on the production). However I have found that a lot of what is on the IMDb is accurate, especially since the web editors on IMDb are very good at vetting and authenticating submitted information. I would like to hear from other users.

Al Fecund (talk) 05:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Plot

"Mike visits Steven, who reveals that someone in Saigon has been mailing large amounts of cash to him, and Mike is convinced that it is Nick...He realizes that Nick thinks he (Michael) and Steven are dead, since he is the only one who made it back on the helicopter."

Someone fix that please —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.241.234.112 (talk) 19:32, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Director's trademarks

I removed the following from the article and bring it here for discussion:

In only his second film as a director, Cimino continued to develop the trademarks that would come to define his directorial career:

• Abrupt flashforwards (The cut from the bar to Vietnam)
• Casting of non-professional actors in supporting roles (Chuck Aspegren as Axel)
• Characters who become disillusioned with the American Dream (Mike, Steve, and Nick all come back psychologically and/or physically damaged from the war).
• Controversial subject matter (the aforementioned Russian Roulette sequences).
• Sudden bursts of violence in seemingly tranquil or naturalistic settings (the war fighting in the Vietnam jungle).
• Striking visual style: Painterly compositions, jittery tracking shots, and wide vista establishing shots that emphasize the earth/nature (The wide establishing shots of the steel town, the jungles of Vietnam and Saigon).

This was referenced with a link to the imdb director's page, which is not a reliable source. This amounts to original research, and is written in a style that is more appropriate for a fan page, not an encyclopedia. Without better sources, and a more balanced rewrite, this cannot remain in the article. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 23:25, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

John Cazale

It would appear there is some discrepancy over the details in this article about the actor who played "Stanley". As per the wiki page on John Cazale, he was dating Meryl Streep, not engaged to her, and he died of lung cancer, not bone cancer. Reference: http://theplaylist.blogspot.com/2010/06/richard-shepard-talks-john-cazale-doc.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.126.239.105 (talk) 18:53, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Deer is not an Elk/Wapiti

I've never edited a Wikipedia article before, but I noticed incorrect information. The large buck deer in the movie (both the one Michael shoots and the one he lets get away) are not elk/wapiti - i.e. Cervus canadensis or any other species native to North America. I'm fairly certain that they're red deer, Cervus elaphus, a species native to Eurasia. There was confusion for quite a while about whether or not they were the same species, but recent genetic work was conclusive that they are different. Even when they were considered the same species, most state fish and game agencies treated them as a non-native exotic. I know you have a source for this information, but the source is definitely wrong. As far as I can tell the other deer in the movie are Mule Deer, but there's never a great image of them. 216.14.236.42 (talk) 04:59, 20 November 2010 (UTC)ErinZ

Russyn reference

The movie is about the trauma suffered by a band of working class former steelers during the Vietnam War. The fact that some or most of them have an ethnic connection to a particular cohort of nineteenth century Slavic migration was not really central to the plot, and I fail to see why it needs to be referred to in the opening para. Kransky (talk) 13:53, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

• It's important insofar as they're Ruthenian Catholics, the symbolism of which peppers the film. Lockesdonkey (talk) 23:00, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Politically manipulated patriotism

This sentence in the lead is not reflected in the body of the article: "The Deer Hunter contemplates the moral and mental consequences of battle as well as the effects of politically-manipulated patriotism upon common values (friendship, honor, family) in a tightly-knit community." I suggest deleting it if adequate sourcing is not added.

The same goes for this sentence in the lead: "The scenes of Russian roulette, while highly controversial on release, have been viewed as a metaphor for the Vietnam War itself." There is no mention of this metaphor in the body of the article. Plot Spoiler (talk) 05:56, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

I support removing the first sentence. As for the second, there is this sentence which is not quite far off: Associated Press reporter Peter Arnett... wrote in the Los Angeles Times, "In its 20 years of war, there was not a single recorded case of Russian roulette... The central metaphor of the movie is simply a bloody lie." Also, this, especially A Voice from the Vietnam War, verifies this metaphor use. Erik (talk | contribs) 12:27, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Alright I support that for now but if we don't find something more explicit about the Russian roulette being the central metaphor of the film, I suggest ultimately removing that as well. Plot Spoiler (talk) 15:10, 4 April 2011 (UTC)