Talk:Judas (Lady Gaga song)

Professional Critics Reviews

PopJustice listened to the song previously the official release and gave a very positive review. They said: "Imagine a highly evolved, Titanium-plated 'Bad Romance' from the year 2511 travelling half a millennium back in time to save music from a tidal wave of 'in the club'-obsessed pop drivel, and that's 'Judas'.... It's pop in all the right ways, it's noisy in all the right ways, it's brash and bombastic and funny and audacious and stupid in all the right ways, and it's smart in all the right ways, too." In terms of producion, PopJustice added:"Vocally Gaga's in completely new territory (in the verses and pre-chorus she hurls herself into a decadent half-sung, half-rapped Jamaican Patois style...Importantly, as a turbo-charged electrogothic wrongness anthem 'Judas' sounds like a lot of fun - like Gaga had fun writing it and like RedOne had a lot of fun producing it." Link: http://www.popjustice.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5381&Itemid=206 --West231 (talk) 17:05, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Professional reviews from NME: http://www.nme.com/blog/index.php?blog=148&title=lady_gaga_judas_review&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 and SPIN: http://www.spin.com/articles/lady-gaga-gets-her-freak-judas?utm_source=spintwitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=spintwitter and NYMAG http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2011/04/lady_gagas_in_love_with_judas.html

why the article states that judas received mixed reviews? all the reviews i've read are positive, however all of them compare the song to bad romance, which doesn't mean that the reviews are mixed, NME says it's probably better than bad romance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.204.154.155 (talk) 01:27, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

I too am confused about the "mixed to positive" remark. I didn't see anything in the section which showed reviews being mixed, most were just saying "Like Bad Romance but better". Something needs to be changed, whether it's said that early reviews were positive, or sign posting these illusive "mixed" reviews. ɧαεςαתɖɾσϻᴇ 11:57, 19 April 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haecandrome (talk • contribs)

Move page?

There are no other Wikipedia articles about other songs titled "Judas" so I think this page should be moved from Judas (Lady Gaga song) to Judas (song). Any objections? - ηyχαμς 17:37, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Nope, there are other songs called "Judas". -- Frous (talk) 00:02, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Unless any others have articles, this will be fine at Judas (song). –anemoneprojectors– 01:04, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Adabow (talk · contribs) 07:44, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

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Judas (Lady Gaga song) → Judas (song) — No other articles about songs titled "Judas" exist, current page name is an overprecise disambiguation, target page is just a redirect to the previous single. ηyχαμς 17:45, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Support MissMJ (talk) 02:28, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

Although there are other songs named "Judas" as per the "Judas" disambiguation page, none seem notable enough for their own page—and if none have been created until now, it is highly unlikely they will be. This particular song is an anticipated single from a widely noted performer. Since there is no other notable "Judas (song)," it seems overly detailed and unnecessary to disambig this as (Lady Gaga song). MissMJ (talk) 02:34, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

• Note I have placed a speedy deletion request at Judas (song), so an admin should move this page to Judas (song) soon. Adabow (talk · contribs) 02:33, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Judas Single Cover Help

I've started the article about Judas. I'm such a noob, so I need help inserting the single cover :DD http://stateofmind13.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/lady-gaga-judas-single-cover.jpg?w=500&h=500 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Squidoh (talk • contribs) 18:07, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Released

Today, the single was released. This is one reason why the article is relevant, therefore, should not be forwarded to the album. -- Xxvid (talk) 19:04, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Nope. WP:DEADLINE, fails WP:NSONG, no charts? no awards? no covers? = No page. Once it charts a page will be created. - (CK)Lakeshade - talk2me - 19:07, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

It has a fucking cover, just go buy Judas from iTunes Squidoh (talk) 20:25, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

WP:GF, stop swearing or you will be blocked from editing. Ive told you above, it fails WP:NSONG. - (CK)Lakeshade - talk2me - 20:28, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Whenever I come across you, you're always trying to get pages shut down. And those pages always re-open because they're valid. The single is available to buy now on iTunes. There are numerous sources saying it will be the next single. This page *will* be re-opened, so stop wasting everyone's time. (78.143.209.189 (talk) 21:50, 15 April 2011 (UTC))

It has been released. It has not been charted yet, but as soon as I started reading WP:NSONG, I realised that charting is not the only way for a song to have its own article. "In general, if the musician or ensemble is notable, and if the album in question has been mentioned in multiple reliable sources (...)" Will you deny now that the musician in question is not notable, and that the song has not enough coverage by reliable sources? Regards. 189.10.10.53 (talk) 22:17, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Im sorry but keep reading; "Most songs do not rise to notability for an independent article and should redirect to another relevant article, such as for the songwriter, a prominent album or for the artist who prominently performed the song. Songs that have been ranked on national or significant music charts, that have won significant awards or honors or that have been independently released as a recording by several notable artists, bands or groups are probably notable." For this song to get a page it has to chart (itunes doesnt count per WP:BADCHARTS), wikipedia has no deadline (WP:DEADLINE) and a page will not be created right now. - (CK)Lakeshade - talk2me - 22:22, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Excuse me but, Born this Way (song) was created as an article since over a month it was released. Your arguments are pointless, there are over a hundred examples of articles of highly anticipated songs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.235.74.81 (talk) 22:42, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

The article is currently in development here. Yves (talk) 22:45, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Adabow (talk · contribs) 07:43, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

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Judas (Lady Gaga song) → Judas (song) - There isn't another Judas song page on Wikipedia. --DisneyFriends (talk) 02:08, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Writers/Producers

Is there some rule that I am missing that says the writers must be listed by their by their legl names but can list the producers by stage names? Shouldnt both writers and Producers be listed as Lady Gaga , RedOne? --122.60.222.252 (talk) 05:31, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Writers are listed as per their names registered with BMI or ASCAP while registering the song. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 06:47, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Sample of song

I think a sample of the song should be included in the article because all the other articles of her songs do.

Agree. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 13:45, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Chart section

May I ask; why was the chart section removed? It debuted at #14 in the UK today but someone has removed it? Please could someone clarify. Slowpoke (talk) 20:05, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from SkyBry, 17 April 2011

There is a piece of lyric from the song "judas" offcourse thats says: "i came with no crown" it actually has to be : "A king with no crown". Also i would like to ad that the Judahhh, Juda-a-ah needs to be changed in Judas, Juda-a-ah. You can hear the S very clearly in the song. thank you!

SkyBry (talk) 20:59, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

 Not done: The lyric is correct per the cited source. If you think it should be changed, you'll need to find a reliable source that trumps the MTV article. —C.Fred (talk) 21:03, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

An earlier source also from MTV ([1]) has the correct lyric: "A king with no crown." It is reporting on what Gaga has stated herself during her interview with Google (which I can corroborate, having seen the video of it). As the person who wrote the song, she would know a lot better what the lyric is. ;) Also, a later source (Popeater) in that same section is used on a repeat of that lyric, this time with the correct "A king with no crown." I will be changing it now. Maybe it would be best to use the video for the Google interview in which she actually says the lyrics? MissMJ (talk) 03:58, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Live Performance

She performed in Tampa! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc8aFQWnxvo Heres the proof above! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.153.108.140 (talk) 15:56, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, not a reliable source. Lemme check. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 16:01, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

How come! It's Gaga! You can see her! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.153.108.140 (talk) 16:37, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Youtube is not a reliable source. And I already added the content. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 16:39, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Okay thanks for adding, but over here, it IS a reliable source! i mean you can see her right? the one in the video was not a replica taken from madame tassuads. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.153.108.140 (talk) 11:29, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Genre

No but seriously, how is Judas considered "dance/house" when Born This Way is considered "Electropop"? If anything these are reversed... Judas is much more electro than Born This Way, can someone cite these? 174.65.61.125 (talk) 05:45, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

It is cited in the article in the composition. Original research is not allowed. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 05:50, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Tribal-techno links to HEAVY METAL?

This must be some kind of joke lol. But as I don't know where the correct place is, somebody fix it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.222.120.94 (talk) 05:19, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

No, it is correct, tribal-techno evolved from heavy metal juxtaposed with tribal beats. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 05:23, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

ScheiBe

Has anyone else noticed that the middle eight of this song "In the most biblical sense/I am beyond repentance[...]" sounds really similar to the version of ScheiBe that was heard at the Mugler fashion show? (Sorry, idk how to do the special character.) Is it possible that ScheiBe is a German version of Judas, and should the similarity be noted in this article? Thanks. The Mach Turtle (talk) 06:26, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

I do'nt see it. Do you mean the "Ich bin mir absolut klar, Ich trag den Madre Monster" part? Whatever, it needs third party reliability. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 06:35, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

There's been some talk that Scheibe is songs from the album mixed together, but as Lego said, there needs to be a source. ℥^nding·start 21:34, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Italy

Judas number 5 in Italy FIMI - Top Digital Download week 17/04 --Emish94 (talk) 10:34, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks done. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 11:03, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

gaga daily

why don't you guys consider gaga daily as a reliabe source? Whatever it is, it has never stated something unreliable! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.153.28.254 (talk) 11:22, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

That could be true, but it is not regarded as a reliable source. Here on Wikipedia, the rule "Reliability before truth" usually holds strong. Read Wikipedia:Verifiability for a better understanding.--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 11:25, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

GagaDaily is the most reliable source on the web about Gaga after her own official website. Not Gossip websites that are accepted as reliable here. Why would Gaga fan sites state facts that are not truth on their posts? They don't and they don't need to. And why only a few people are allowed to edit this and most Lady Gaga's article? Isn't this "the free encyclopedia"?

"Base articles on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. Source material must have been published (made available to the public in some form); unpublished materials are not considered reliable."

Chart Performance

I would like to propose the removal of the section that reads "After its release to the digital outlets and radio, Billboard theorized that "Judas" would need to sell between 350,000 and 400,000 copies in two and a half days, and make a large number of radio listener impressions "through the end of the airplay tracking period" on April 19, 2011, in order to debut at number one on the US Billboard Hot 100 chart despite its rushed release.". This section has proven to be irrelevant and unessential to the actual chart performance of the song.

Reece Leonard (talk) 06:22, 27 April 2011 (UTC)Reece Leonard

I agree, I don't really see the overall relevance, it's just a speculative Billboard article, nothing that important. Adabow (talk · contribs) 06:34, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

I disagree, not just a speculation, it was a theory that how much "Judas" needs to track in SoundScan sales. This will in turn be a good contrast with the actual depiction of the performance, wherein it sold only half its amount. Not fluff when Billboard prognostigators estimated this. And Reece Leonard, I have noticed you have a tendency to want to remove negative view sbout Gaga's songs, which is a violation of our neutral point of view. I will be keeping an eye. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 06:43, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Also this is a clear cut indication of sockpuppetry. You are being forbidden to do this, else you will be blocked. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 14:20, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

I can assure you, I have no hidden motive to remove negative connotations from Lady GaGa pages. Furthermore, I would just like to point out that multiple others have agreed with my suggestions, and you have chosen to ignore them anyway. I point this out not to question your judgement, but only to support my statement that I do not have a secret Pro-GaGa agenda. Also, I would like to make it completely clear that I have never participated in "sockpuppetry". This is my only account and I am who I say I am. I am still advocating for the removal of this piece of the page, as it still contains zero relevance to how the song has charted. It was a simple theory as to how the song could debut at number one, despite it being released with just two days in the tracking period. It is irrelevant.

Reece Leonard (talk) 03:17, 30 April 2011 (UTC)Reece Leonard

No its not, not when industry prognostigators and Billboard theorize it. Also it is an addendum critical commentary to the performance of the song. And to remind you, there hasn't been many others, except Andrew. Relevance doesnot just mean "Judas" debuted at X and reached X was certified X, but also a commercial analysis, which I'm not sure how much you find relevant. Oh, and about the socking, please don't even try to deny it, its laughable when clearly a single IP came and did the same removal as you did. Would you mind an SPI next time? — Legolas ^(talk2me) 04:45, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Nº7 in Japan

http://www.billboard-japan.com/system/jp_charts/hot100/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.31.189.3 (talk) 12:47, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Added it and archived. Thank you. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 15:53, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Plagiarism and Loi Lux

It has been found that the loop pre-dates Loi Lux. It comes from a collection of free loops called "Vengeance Electro Essentials vol. 1". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.232.71.170 (talk) 02:26, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

We need more sources. I've added what I was able to find thus far. If you find any other third-party reliable sources then please post them here for addition.--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 02:36, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Not to sound forum like, but that sample came from Vengeance Electro Essentials, a free released collection. So Lux's accusation are as irrelevant as she and her career is. Second of all, I just can't at her trying to expect compensation. It's like I'm using Gaga's main profile picture in my sandbox, I'm gonna want compensation from WP Commons. Third of all, the third party sources really need to step up their game in reporting these things correctly. I know we abide by WP:V, but sometimes they are just so mess. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 03:12, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Lol, returning from planet forum, don't worry, I'm sure more reliable sources will soon present themselves. Things like this don't go by easily.--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 07:53, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

'String of male dancers?'

So her five female dancers were just...invisible or something. lol, edit please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.21.58 (talk) 10:45, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

$10 million pricetag for video

Is it important that we clarify that the video, though initially reported, did not cost $10 million to make? https://twitter.com/#!/eonline/status/65093788292481024 Samlikeswiki (talk) 03:09, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Rumors have no place for Wikipedia articles. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 04:15, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Tracklisting

This should be added to the tracklisting. "Judas" (DJ White Shadow Remix) Source = Born this Way tracklisting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.99.191.115 (talk) 11:12, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Added it. Samlikeswiki (talk) 03:10, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Removed it. Its an album track, not a separate single release. Sam, you have no idea what to add and what not to add to articles. I have told you before also to ask in the talkpage, before adding. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 07:37, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

2-track Single

The version of Born This Way on the CD single is the "Twin Shadow Remix". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.113.151.242 (talk) 14:55, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Source does not say so, do you any other reliable source? — Legolas ^(talk2me) 15:18, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Legolas, I was wondering if you could help me look for one. My computer history was deleted after 24 hours, but I found a website for it. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Samlikeswiki (talk • contribs) 15:47, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

I saw it on a few smaller stores and Ebay, but no major one. The length also speaks for it though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.113.151.242 (talk) 17:15, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Music Video

Well? it leaked! could someone put the summary up? I'm too lazy to do it myself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.48.164.201 (talk) 21:44, 5 May 2011 (UTC)