Talk:List of massacres in Israel: Difference between revisions

Browse history interactively

← Previous edit Next edit →

Content deleted Content added

VisualWikitext

Inline

Revision as of 20:27, 20 April 2012

Israel List‑class

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related articles

List

This article has been rated as List-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.

???

This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Project Israel To Do:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Assess : Rate the Unassessed Israel-related articles and Unknown-importance Israel-related articles.
Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category and the tool's wiki page.
Collaborate : Participate in WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration.
Copyedit : Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005
Deletion sorting : Participate in discussions at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel.
Expand : Ayala Procaccia, Diamond industry in Israel, Edna Arbel, Levin Kipnis, Rami Kleinstein, Sephardic Haredim, Zman Tel Aviv, Nachum Heiman, Public Defence (Israel), Prisoner of Zion, Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu, Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran, Pre-Modern Aliyah
See also Articles needing translation from Hebrew Wikipedia.
Geographical coordinates : Add geographic coordinates to Israel articles missing geocoordinate data.
Infobox : Add infoboxes to Israel articles needing infoboxes.
Maintain : See Israel articles needing attention.
Map : See discussion at Module:Location map/data/Israel. Add maps to articles in Wikipedia requested maps in Israel.
NPOV : Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries
Photo : Add pictures to articles in Wikipedia requested photographs in Israel.
Stubs : See Israel stubs.
Update : Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People
Other :
- Translate to Hebrew : David Bar-Hayim, Guy Bavli, and Guy Oseary.

This article was nominated for deletion on 13 May 2011. The result of the discussion was keep.

Kfar Etzion

I would suggest that this didn't occur in Israel. Padres Hana (talk) 15:26, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Also the number of fatalities includes those killed in battle - not just the unarmed prisoners who were shot.Padres Hana (talk) 15:29, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Also I would suggest the Hebron events belong in "List of massacres in Palestinian Territories".Padres Hana (talk) 15:32, 5 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And reading the Safad 1834 page there is no mention of number of deaths or mass rape - can't understand why I am wasting time on this.Padres Hana (talk) 15:32, 5 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Padres Hana, have the three incidents you added to the table yesterday been specifically called massacres? Because not every bomb attack is considered such. I am not familiar with the ones you named.

About Safed 1834, I thought I had read from the original artical that the the number of casualties was 500. I went back and read it again, and you are right. It is not listed. The text does say "Accounts of the month long pogrom tell of large scale looting, killing and raping of Jews as well as the destruction of their homes and synagogues by local Druse and Muslim Arabs." It is in the second paragraph.--96.60.170.188 (talk) 03:06, 26 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dear 96.60.170.188 I am not at all clear what the definition of a massacre is. My dictionary says: General slaughter esp. of unresisting persons. This is what I am going by. Padres Hana (talk) 17:38, 26 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That definition would apply to just about every terrorist attack on Israel. So far I have only listed incidents that have been referred to as massacres by some reputable source. --96.60.170.188 (talk) 02:37, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Content of Page

Please do not change my edits; they are accurate as you will see in the main articles for each incident listed. Please do not remove information. --96.60.170.188 (talk) 04:59, 25 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

It has been proposed in this section that List of massacres in Israel be renamed and moved to List of massacres in Palestine.

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly.

Links: current log • target log • direct move

List of massacres in Israel → List of massacres in Palestine – Many of these massacres took place prior to the establishment of the State of Israel. The article title probably refers to the geographical area on which the State of Israel is located. The conventional name for that geographical area is Palestine and it is the name used in many other Wikipedia articles that discuss events that took place prior to the establishment of the State of Israel. MJC.2012 (talk) 22:40, 18 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Sounds reasonable. The area has a more apt name that is not so bounded in time; shouldn't we use it? Noetica^Tea? 01:31, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Palestine is the geographic region in which the massacres occurred. Many did not occur in the Kingdom or State of Israel. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 01:57, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. An article List of massacres in Palestine would overlap with List of massacres in Palestinian Territories, List of killings and massacres in Mandatory Palestine and Killings and massacres during the 1948 Palestine War. Better to filter out massacres which took place prior to the establishment of the state (May 15 1948) as well off-GreenLine massacres. --Frederico1234 (talk) 06:11, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

@Fredrico, if we filter out the massacres prior to the establishment of Israel, which list will contain massacres that occurred prior to the British Mandate? Also there is going to be some degree of overlap among these articles whatever way we arrange them. Dlv999 (talk) 07:21, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As long as I'm aware, there is presently no list article of massacres that occured prior to the Mandate. However, I don't see the lack of such an article as a problem. Most of these list articles in the P-I topic field are of quite low quality and hence of little use. Call me cynical, but I see no reason why an article List of massacres in Palestine wouldn't become similarly poor and useless. Quite the opposite, as designating Israel as part of Palestine (while true) would be an invitation to POV battles.

Regarding overlap: A filtered article List of massacres in Israel would only overlap with Killings and massacres during the 1948 Palestine War. An article List of massacres in Palestine would overlap with all list articles mentioned. --Frederico1234 (talk) 12:45, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Articles like these are generally named in accordance with the current name of the country, since 1948. The current name of this country is Israel. Naming it "Palestine" would imply the massacres took place there in the past before the country was known as Israel. Shaliya waya (talk) 01:34, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

@Shaliya, curious to know about those articles? Could you please mention some examples?

And the article actually does list massacres that took place prior to establishment of Israel (which is explained in my proposal) MJC.2012 (talk) 03:36, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Such a renaming would violate Wikipedia's neutrality guidelines. Referring to Israel as "Palestine" is quite offensive and denies that Israel is a Jewish state. Xyz7890 (talk) 02:20, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry to hear that (no offense intended). Remember, what seems "fair" to you may sound offensive to others as well and vice versa. Many of those massacres happened before Israel came to existence. I suggest you re-read WP:NPOV. MJC.2012 (talk) 03:58, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Makes sense to use the current official name of any territory in lists like these, purely for simplicity's sake. Many lands have had many names over many years, and borders frequently change. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:51, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's factually inaccurate to say those massacres took place in Israel when neither the victims or perpetrators heard of a country called Israel. It's unheard of to forsake factual accuracy for simplicity in any Encyclopedia. MJC.2012 (talk) 03:58, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

They hadn't heard of it, but virtually everyone looking at this article has. Times have changed. If you were to point out the location of a massacre to someone today, you would be pointing at Israel. Regardless of the mindsets and borders of the time, the sites of the massacres remain the same, and are currently within Israeli borders. We must be factually accurate AND up-to-date. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:22, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment It has been asserted that it is common practice to list massacres to a country prior to the establishment of that country. Does anyone have examples of such article to demonstrate this common practice? Dlv999 (talk) 07:28, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This would be very offensive. Calling Israel "Palestine" is very offensive. Linda Olive (talk) 20:27, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 46: / Line 46: @@
 ::: They hadn't heard of it, but virtually everyone looking at this article has. Times have changed. If you were to point out the location of a massacre to someone today, you would be pointing at Israel. Regardless of the mindsets and borders of the time, the sites of the massacres remain the same, and are currently within Israeli borders. We must be factually accurate AND up-to-date. [[User:InedibleHulk|InedibleHulk]] ([[User talk:InedibleHulk|talk]]) 20:22, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
 * '''Comment''' It has been asserted that it is common practice to list massacres to a country prior to the establishment of that country. Does anyone have examples of such article to demonstrate this common practice? [[User:Dlv999|Dlv999]] ([[User talk:Dlv999|talk]]) 07:28, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
+* '''Oppose''' This would be very offensive. Calling Israel "Palestine" is very offensive. [[User:Linda Olive|Linda Olive]] ([[User talk:Linda Olive|talk]]) 20:27, 20 April 2012 (UTC)