Talk:Fallon Fox

Past pronouns

According to the GLAAD media reference guide on transgender individuals:

"It is usually best to report on transgender people's stories from the present day instead of narrating them from some point or multiple points in the past, thus avoiding confusion and potentially disrespectful use of incorrect pronouns."

Fallon Fox should be referred to as a woman even when discussing her past. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kenect2 (talk • contribs) 03:20, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

That's how I tend to do it, it seems polite. I do wonder if we have a Wikipedia policy about this yet though. Ranze (talk) 21:00, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, the Manual of Style guideline section MOS:IDENTITY: "...reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life." --Geniac (talk) 03:35, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Except in direct quotes. Just to be clear. Ignatzmice•talk 06:21, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Why are we addressing past issues with the pronoun of "she", when that is inaccurate. Just because you want to be a different gender, doesn't give you the right to change your past, if you have always been a male. Now if he wants to refer to himself as a "she" post surgery, that is different, but the correct term would be a "post-op" female.99.6.4.126 (talk) 06:07, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Basis of objections

Regarding some of the protests, while guys like Matt Mitrione are clearly being bigoted, I am hoping the basis of objection from more respected sources like Joe Rogan could be clarified. There is a bit of a valid objection regarding things like testosterone levels, physical strength, etc. Like could we clarify if FF's test levels are down to the usual level of females, or if they might be higher and closer to average males? Ranze (talk) 21:01, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

• For trans sportswomen who are taking anti-androgens, testosterone levels are a misleading measure, since those reduce the effects of testosterone (including on physical strength) more than they reduce the actual blood concentration of testosterone (although they do reduce that as well indirectly). Fallon Fox however has had reassignment surgery and therefore her testosterone levels are highly likely to be within the typical range of those of cisgender women. Even if that were not the case, it's unclear how it would help to ask whether her T levels are "down to the usual level of females"; the mean testosterone level in females is a different thing to the range of testosterone levels in females, which is a different thing to the range of testosterone levels in female MMA fighters. --Daira Hopwood ⚥ (talk) 21:50, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Paragraph separation

Under Fallon_Fox#Controversy could we have a paragraph break between "report on the issue." and "Due to controversy"? The discussion of the fight being postponed is very distinctive from the discussion about what commentators like Joe Rogan are saying, in terms of different contexts of results. Ranze (talk) 21:04, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

 Done. JohnCD (talk) 14:05, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Privacy violation

{{editprotected}} "Still living as a heterosexual male, Fox impregnated her girlfriend at the age of 19."

This should be deleted; it is irrelevant to the article and a violation of Fox' and her girlfriend's privacy. Since it is a privacy violation, please also delete this Talk section once the edit is made. --Daira Hopwood ⚥ (talk) 21:52, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

• Irrelevant, perhaps; privacy violation, most definitely not. From the Sports Illustrated interview:

  "I did experiment, trying to figure out what I did and didn't like," said Fallon. "Around 19, I got a girl pregnant. I really didn't want to get married, but I was raised with the belief to marry that person and take care of our child."

  I really don't think it can count as a privacy violation if she herself said it. Note that Fox said "a girl", not "my girlfriend", though. Maybe that should be changed. Ignatzmice•talk 22:45, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
  • This New York Times profile should clear up a lot of things. (She was in fact married to that woman, and remained so until 2007.) It also includes what appears to be a consensual reporting of her birth name. (The Times is a pillar of journalistic ethics, after all, and acknowledges and complies with her request that her daughter not be named.) Shall we include the name? — PinkAmpers&^{(Je vous invite à me parler)} 06:41, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
    • I'm going to expand all the refs (I guess I'll put the accessdate as today, though that's a bit weird) and I'll see if I can incorporate her birth name. Maybe just in the infobox—"Born: Boyd Burton, Toledo, OH", and leave it at that. Ignatzmice•talk 15:43, 12 May 2013 (UTC)