Talk:Fatinitza

Infobox

One Opera project thing is infoboxes with pictures of the composer. Is it alright to switch out the image to one a bit more related to the opera? Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 19:10, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Fatinitza
operetta by Franz von Suppé
Poster, c. 1879
Librettist	Camillo Walzel Richard Genée
Language	German
Based on	Eugène Scribe's libretto to the 1861 opéra comique La circassienne
Premiere	January 5, 1876 (1876-01-05) Carltheater, Vienna

This "infobox" isn't an infobox ;)

An infobox for this work might look like this. I suggest to include the links to other operas to a navbox. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:38, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Here you go: {{Franz von Suppé}}. You may want to have an image of the composer elsewhere in the article. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:52, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

The navigation box currently in the article, {{Suppé operas}}, can easily be modified to accommodate other images. Following the work by User:Robert.Allen at Template:Verdi operas/sandbox, it boils down to inserting

|image={{#if:{{{altimage|}}} | {{{altimage}}} |Franz von Suppé.jpg}}

and then invoking {{Suppé operas}} here with the parameter |altimage=your preferred.jpg. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:27, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

It's far easier than that.

|image={{altimage|Franz von Suppé.jpg}}

...works just as well. But I wasn't sure the Wikiproject permitted that. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 09:39, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

You could also be bold and go for an infobox right away. On project opera, there a few reasons for it, and so far not one for the side navbox other than "I like it" and "We always did it that way" (all by me, please add). An interesting discussion started yesterday on Talk:Mont Juic (suite), - aspects I didn't fully understand. Learning, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:11, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

I think you're right. What I think I'll do is first, add a background section about Franz von Suppé, as I do want to include a picture of him, and then switch to the Infobox. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 15:36, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Dear Adam, just to be perfectly clear - Gerda's chartacterisation of infobox discussion is not accurate. Very many editors of opera articles dislike infoboxes for a number of reasons that go far beyond Gerda's trivial, partisan and unhelpful summary of the Wikiproject discussion. They (like me) scarcely bothered to contribute to the discussion on Wikiproject Opera because they are fed up with Gerda rabitting on about it. You may be unaware that there is a major row going on about the activties of Gerda and others with relation to infoboxes here. In fact, it was well under way at the time when Gerda made her modest proposal for your article. My view for what it is worth - as Gerda has been keen to advance her own opinion - is that editors' energies are better spent creating and improving articles than tinkering about with useless items of decor. I believe that a number of others also share my view. Best,--Smerus (talk) 16:18, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

I disagree. The summary nails it as far as I can see. And once again, you resort to bullying Gerda for good faith, well-reasoned suggestions that would be very helpful. But never mind, the real drama isn't on this page... Montanabw^(talk) 17:50, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

• I would favor restoring the picture of the composer with the navbox to the top of the article which is a much more convenient location for these links. The picture currently in the infobox (the infobox otherwise contributes nothing), could be moved to the Synopsis section. This would also be more consistent with the other articles on operettas by this composer and more consistent with most other articles on opera and operetta at Wikipedia. The composer navbox has been used for a long time, has been refined to a format and simplicity that has found wide acceptance, and is very useful, --Robert.Allen (talk) 20:05, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
  • So would I, for the same reasons. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 06:15, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

I think the author should be respected ;) The infobox provides date and place of the article's topic at a glance, a service to readers. Entering an article, readers should not navigate away to other works of the composer. If interested in them, they will know that a click on the composer's name will get to more complete information on his life and works. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:24, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Paris première

This edit asserts that Fatinitza was premiered in Paris on 15 March 1875; that's about nine months before the premiere in Vienna, or a typo. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:02, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

IMSLP has the French vocal score version used for the Brussels premiére. [1] It gives the date as 28 Decembre 1878 (and also has the full cast: is that useful?). As such, I can't see how the Paris version could predate 1879. Conveniently, the source for that edit comes from 1879, so I think it's a typo (or possibly misreading: the numbers are somewhat similar in some fonts) for 1879 Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 07:56, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

I found a source that shows I'm right, and added some information from it. I would link, but checking the dates, I'm pretty sure the Internet Archive shouldn't really be hosting it. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)

Yes – 1879 – apologies, a typo.Cg2p0B0u8m (talk) 17:46, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

It happens to all of us. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 18:49, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Recordings

There are at least a couple of recordings, one in German and one in English (at the Library of Congress): CD at Amazon; OCLC 177082767, 43784470. --Robert.Allen (talk) 19:40, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Performance history

The article could be improved with a "Performance history" section. These two sources (available at many libraries) have much information:

• Gänzl, Kurt (2001). The Encyclopedia of the Musical Theatre, second edition. New York: Schirmer Books. ISBN 978-0-02-864970-2.
• Loewenberg, Alfred (1978). Annals of Opera 1597–1940 (third edition, revised). Totowa, New Jersey: Rowman and Littlefield. ISBN 9780874718515.

Robert.Allen (talk) 20:15, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the advice! I don't actually own either book so it may be a week or so before I get to the library to use them, but I certainly will. I've included the translations from Loewenberg already, though. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 10:57, 3 August 2013 (UTC)