Talk:Wales

The issue of whether Wales is a country or not has been repeatedly raised. The result of all these debates is that Wales is indeed a country. This has been confirmed in formal mediation. The discussion is summarised in this archive here. Further information on the countries within the UK can be found at Countries of the United Kingdom, and a table of reliable sources can be found at Talk:Countries of the United Kingdom/refs.

University photograph

Hello,

I think the photograph of a university in the education should be of Cardiff University, seeing as it is the second largest and most highly rated university in Wales; this making it the most relavant to an overview of the nation as a whole.

At the moment it is the lampeter campus of University of Wales, Trinity Saint David, which is a more historical perspective considering that it was the first degree awarding institution in Wales. However it is of little modern importance considering it's small size and lower international rankings.

So do people agree ?Xyphoid (talk) 16:22, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

No. My opinion is that the article already shows several images of Cardiff, and we should maintain a balance of images that cover all parts of the country, rather than necessarily choosing the "biggest" or "most important" for every section. Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:31, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

No, per Ghmyrtle. The article is about Wales; the whole of Wales. The image was chosen to provide more depth than just the country's main cities. Cardiff is mentioned dozens of times (quite rightly), Lampeter just the once. Daicaregos (talk) 17:51, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Prince of Wales

Why isn't the Prince of Wales listed under the leaders of Wales? I realize it's a completely symbolic title and that the Prince does not practice any authority in Wales (other than his role as a representative of Her Majesty on official trips), but since Wales is often called a "Principality" I think it odd to exclude the actual (nominal) prince. --SchutteGod 76.171.231.104 (talk) 20:38, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Because he is not a leader of Wales. He has no particular authority in Wales, and Wales is not a principality (though it is sometimes misleadingly described as one). "Prince of Wales" is just a courtesy title, effectively unrelated to the subject of this article. See Principality of Wales#After 1542: union with England for more explanation. Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:45, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Atlantic Celtic Edit War

There was a theory a few years championed by John T Koch and supported in part by Barry Cunliffe which said the Celtic languages originate with a maritime trading network and had nothing to do with the Hallstatt culture. Koch said this was supported by Tartessian being Celtic. As the work was held up to scrutiny it was believed less and less. The majority view never shifted from the established one that the Celtic languages do originate with the Hallstatt culture. Nevertheless, this user, Jembana, goes around every page on Wikipedia inserting it and trying to make out that "this is the new way of thinking" when it isn't. This is what has happened here. He also tries to impress with loads and loads of citations which are basically different versions of the same paper in various media. It's a shrinking minority view and shouldn't be given undue weight. Paul S (talk) 19:38, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Nevertheless, it is cited text. Do you have anything to support your assertions? As it stands, it seems to be your uncited opinion against Jembamba's cited one. Daicaregos (talk) 07:03, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Dai. Koch's view may well - I don't know - be a discredited minority view, but we need to refer to sources that demonstrate that, so that we can write something like "Koch said.... but the majority view is that.....". That would be better than excluding entirely any mention of the theory. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:57, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Seriously, if you believe that Celtic origins in the Hallstatt culture is "My uncited opinion" you ought not to be having anything to do with editing this page. Paul S (talk) 10:42, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

WP:NPA. You need to cite sources, like anyone else. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:11, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Transport

After viewing the latest updates on the transport section, I've given it a slightly hung-over look, and I'm querying the phrase that Cardiff Queen Street is a major hub of rail links in Wales. Yes it is one of the busiest, but I'm not sure if it's a hub. Don't all trains that go to Queen street go through Cardiff Central? FruitMonkey (talk) 11:14, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

That sentence (and most of the paragraph) has remained essentially unchanged (and unreferenced) since 2007 (Cardiff Queen Street was added to the sentence in May 2007). According to the Cardiff Queen Street page, trains between Cardiff Bay and Cardiff Queen Street run without passing through Cardiff Central, although all the other Cardiff Queen Street services do pass through Cardiff Central. Latest figures are here – apparently the Excel table is sortable by region, but I don't have Excel. Cardiff Central has 11.5m entries/exits (out of 47.1m entries/exits total for Wales). Cardiff Queen Street has 2.5m; Newport – 2.3m; Swansea – 2.2m; Bridgend – 1.6m. Outside the GWR route, Rhyl and Wrexham General each have 0.6m; Abergavenny & Aberystwyth each have 0.4m. I suggest adding Newport and Swansea to the sentence, to give Cardiff Central, Cardiff Queen Street, Newport and Swansea are the busiest and the major hubs on the national network. Or, removing Cardiff Queen Street, to give Cardiff Central is the busiest and the major hub on the national network. Daicaregos (talk) 12:00, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

As Cardiff Central has substantially more traffic than the other stations, I'd favour the latter, except that I'm not keen on the wording "..the busiest and the major...". How about: Cardiff Central is the busiest station in Wales and main hub on the UK national network.? Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:12, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

As the railway connects only to England (with onward connections to France and Scotland), that would be misleading - no rail connection exists to Northern Ireland. How about Cardiff Central is Wales' busiest railway station, with over four times as much passenger traffic as any other station in Wales. Daicaregos (talk) 19:44, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Fine by me. My concern was only that the term "national network" was ambiguous - it could refer to either Wales or the UK. Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:46, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

 Done Daicaregos (talk) 09:03, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Government and politics images

I removed the image of First Minister Carwyn Jones from the Government and politics section (since reverted) for two reasons. Firstly, per WP:RECENTISM. Jones has been First Minister of Wales since December 2009 – less than four years. If anyone should be pictured in the section, Rhodri Morgan would be my first choice - he was in office for the best part of ten years. However, while I accept that many articles show their country's current leader, MOS has no requirement to do so AFAIK, and not all country articles do e.g. Ireland and Northern Ireland. The second reason was that the image bled into the following (Local Government) section, making the article look amateurish. The section is too short to accommodate three images (and the image of the Senedd should remain). May I suggest an alternative resolution? Replace the image of the royal badge of Wales with the image of Carwyn Jones. Any objections? Daicaregos (talk) 10:47, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Certainly none from me.
— | Gareth Griffith-Jones | The Welsh Buzzard | — 11:01, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

No problem. I think an image of the current political leader helps reinforce the message to readers that Wales is a current political entity. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:05, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

 Done Daicaregos (talk) 09:04, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Royal Badge of Wales.

You people are aware that the Welsh government has a coat of arms right? Why isnt it featured next to the flag like all the over government coat of arms from various countries? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Badge_of_Wales — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.13.216.142 (talk) 20:10, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

The Welsh government doesn't have sovereignty over Wales, unlike other states. I'm bothered either way however. Rob (talk) 20:28, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Please expand "bothered either way"! — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 20:56, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

I don't mind whether it's included or not, since I have little idea of the extent to which the Royal Badge symbolises Wales. I disagree with the OP's assertion that a symbol of a Government, is by essence, a national symbol. And it may incorrect in this case, since the Royal Badge doesn't represent the sovereign of Wales. Simply, a symbol represents a country, if it is used to represent the country. Rob (talk) 21:21, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

The Royal Badge is not the badge of the Welsh government. It's the badge of the Queen in Wales. "The device introduced in 2008 is accordingly a badge, rather than a coat of arms; Wales currently has no official coat of arms." Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:28, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, as ever, to Ghmyrtle for clarifying this! — | Gareth Griffith-Jones |The WelshBuzzard| — 21:34, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

I don't think whether it's a coat of arms or not is conclusive, various national symbols are placed along side flags in countries' infoboxes, but I don't think the badge is a national symbol. Rob (talk) 21:51, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 January 2014

In the second par in the main article, this sentence should have a comma added after "century": "Welsh national identity emerged among the Celtic Britons after the Roman withdrawal from Britain in the 5th century[place comma here] and Wales is regarded as one of the modern Celtic nations."

Listserv (talk) 01:35, 19 January 2014 (UTC)Listserv