Talk:Vegetarianism

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Vegetable diet

I think it would be good and appropriate to mention a diet of vegetebles, fruits and nuts, at the beginning. I'm going through the archives. However the discussion about excluding this diet should be left, mentioned here instead of archived. --Jondel (talk) 00:00, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Hello, Jondel. For the lead of the Vegetarianism article, including what vegetarians eat and what vegetarians don't eat have been a problem for editors in the past. For the most relevant discussions on these matters, so that you don't have to search much through the archives, see Talk:Vegetarianism/Archive 16#Introduction is wrong (which is the latest discussion before this one about including in the lead what vegetarians eat -- vegetables, fruits, etc.) and Talk:Vegetarianism/Archive 17#The definition of vegetarianism in the lead yet again, with by-products of animal slaughter again being an issue and Talk:Vegetarianism/Archive 17#By-products of slaughter, specifically gelatin (which are the latest discussions that are more about what vegetarians don't eat). As you know, days ago, I reverted you here, with a followup note here, stating, "Keep simple, per past discussions; when we get into adding what vegetarians eat, people want to add nuts, etc., etc. It is mainly about abstaining from meat, similar to how veganism is about abstaining from animal products in general." and "WP:Dummy edit: Furthermore, varieties are addressed in the second paragraph. So if there is a need to mention vegetables, fruits, nuts, and all that other stuff, we can summarize it there."

As you can see, for some time, editors of the article have been going with a "what vegetarians don't eat" approach for the first paragraph of the lead, which is also what the Veganism article does regarding veganism (strict or very strict vegetarianism). I think that's better than the "what vegetarians eat and don't eat" approach; for example, you added, "consuming mainly or only fruits and vegetables." But there are people who are vegetarians who don't eat fruits and/or vegetables, or who don't actively eat them anyway. For instance, they might get fruit or vegetable intake via other means. I don't see a need to mention the "plant-based diet" aspect for the first paragraph, especially since it's already clarified in the infobox with the picture of vegetables, fruits and dairy; that infobox sentence states: "A vegetarian diet is derived from plants, with or without eggs or dairy." I'm not wholly opposed to including the plant-based diet aspect in the lead, but I don't think we should go into significant detail about it for the lead, and I think that, if we do include it, it should go in the second paragraph that addresses the varieties of vegetarianism. So changing the "There are varieties of the diet as well:" line to "There are varieties of the diet as well, which may or may not be plant-based:" works for me. Flyer22 (talk) 19:53, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Long story short: a diet of "vegetables, fruits and nuts" leaves out several foods some vegetarians eat: eggs, milk and dairy products, honey, mushrooms, seaweeds, bacteria, yeast, salt, edible soils and clays, etc. Reliable sources define vegetarianism as a diet of exclusion. As a result, so do we. - SummerPhD (talk) 21:30, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Ok. I guess it's like AAAAAAHH, here we go again. (Some vegies drink milk, some don't, yada yada.)--Jondel (talk) 13:29, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Vegetarianism and Gender (particularly pregnancy and birth gender)

I looked up the citation and original documents and found that the theory that vegetarian women give birth to more girls than boys has no reliable empirical support. The journal referred to in the cited BBC article has no academically rigorous peer review process, and the study's author does not hold a doctorate. I feel this section should be reworded to better reflect the spuriousness of the cited evidence, given the sources. In favour?