Talk:God

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Semi-protected edit request on 13 August 2015

Good Afternoon, My name is Don Strickland, and I am a theology (M.Div) student studying at a mainline seminary. I am writing to ask for your consideration in adding a small addition to the Wikipedia article titled, “God.” The addition I propose concerns the following: The concept of God as described by theologians commonly includes the attributes of omniscience (infinite knowledge), omnipotence (unlimited power), omnipresence(present everywhere), omnibenevolence (perfect goodness), divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence.

The idea of “omnipotence” is, in mainline Christianity, understood to be tied to Greek philosophy. As the Roman Empire was increasingly “Christianized,” early Christian apologists worked to make the very Jewish conception of God rationally comport with Greek philosophy. The idea of omnipotence prevalent in classical theology is indebted to Greek philosophy much more than Jewish religion, a position that neo-orthodoxy comfortably holds.

With the emergence of Whitehead’s process metaphysics, many mainline prominent theologians of the twentieth century began to find Greek philosophical categories like omnipotence untenable when used to describe God’s essential being. For instance, Charles Hartshorne’s book titled, “Omnipotence and other theological mistakes,” which is required reading in many mainline seminaries, provides a process theological perspective grounded in whitehead’s metaphysics rather than Aristotle’s metaphysics.

Postmodern theology since the latter half of the twentieth century provides another example of mainline Christian thought that problematizes Platonic metaphysical categories (such as omnipotence) for defining God’s essential nature. It is too much to go into, but some liberation theologies, theologies of the cross, and womanist theologies also provide alternatives to the pre-twentieth century dominant view of omnipotence.

It is true that in classical, orthodox theology writers (e.g. the ontological argument of Anselm) employed Greek metaphysics to describe God. At least since the early twentieth century (the period when Fundamentalism sharpened its resistance to mainline critical methods), Greek metaphysical conception has come under scrutiny in mainline circles.

Since mainline Protestant theology is so critical of the classical Greek view of omnipotence (and other Greek metaphysical categories of divinity), the article leans heavily toward a fundamentalist theological perspective, which, since the late 1800s, has resisted mainline critical scholarship and has sought to conserve the metaphysics of early Greek-Christian thought.

I am wondering (in light of the clear theological differences between fundamentalist and mainline churches) is it possible to add a parenthetical statement to the Wikipedia article titled “God” that recognizes the many mainline theologians since the early twentieth century (e.g. process and postmodern theology) who recognize concepts such as “omnipotence” as a product of Greek metaphysics and not a divinely revealed, essential attribute of God’s being.

One suggested revision is as follows:

"The concept of God as described by (CLASSICAL or ORTHODOX) theologians commonly includes the attributes of omniscience (infinite knowledge), omnipotence (unlimited power), omnipresence(present everywhere), omnibenevolence (perfect goodness), divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence. [(IT IS WORTH NOTING, HOWEVER, THAT AT LEAST SINCE THE EARLY TWENTIETH CENTURY THESE CATEGORIES HAVE BEEN CHALLENGED BY MANY MAINLINE THEOLOGIES (E.G. PROCESS THEOLOGY AND POSTMODERN THEOLOGY) (See Footnote Below)]. In theism, God is thecreator and sustainer of the universe, while in deism, God is the creator, but not the sustainer, of the universe."

It is an incredible task to “define” God. I hope my suggestion is taken in the spirit in which it is intended, which is to somehow indicate that the conversation about the nature of God’s being is not settled in Christian discourse. It is my hope that such a sentiment might somehow be included in the article so that readers might understand that the question of God’s being is an open question, not a closed one.

Thank you so much for your consideration.

I hope and peace,

Footnote: For a Process Theological Perspective see Charles Hartshorne’s Omnipotence and other Theological Mistakes State University of New York, Albany, 1984. For a Postmodern perspective see John D. Caputo’s The Weakness of God: A Theology of the Event, Indiana University Press, 2006. On page 80, Caputo notes that “No wonder, then, that the idea of absolute omnipotence did not arise from biblical and historical experience, but rather arose from a metaphysical debate.”

Britemdiv (talk) 14:11, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

There may be something to your (somewhat overly wordy) request. We do need a reliable source though that supports the "challenge" of the claim. I would also be very hesitant to specify this to mainline theologies because as far as I know that would frame it as a uniquely US protestant tradition instead of a global issue. Perhaps something like:

"The concept of God as described by classical theologians commonly includes the attributes of omniscience (infinite knowledge), omnipotence (unlimited power), omnipresence(present everywhere), omnibenevolence (perfect goodness), divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence. However, since the early twentieths century it has been challenged whether these attributes are essential to describe God (ADD A STRONG SECONDARY SOURCE HERE TOWARDS THIS CLAIM). In theism, God is thecreator and sustainer of the universe, while in deism, God is the creator, but not the sustainer, of the universe." Arnoutf (talk) 14:37, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

I don't think that's needed. The sentence already has the word "commonly" which indicates that it's not necessary to have those attributes. Additionally the word "includes" means their not all necessary (ie only some of the attributes). Stickee (talk) 23:02, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Poles in mythology

Now we have a new article Poles in mythology, Please see and include suitable improvements , if any, in article Poles in mythology.

Rgds Mahitgar (talk) 09:09, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Methods to define the term: "God"

1. experimental data, actual facts
2. an analytical theory, a prediction based as an extrapolation of a proven mechanism
3. traditional-popular or religious beliefs
4. personal beliefs
5. personal ambition for eternal life, fear of death
6. anthropic reasoning, forcing human thought as a mechanism of nature, or the cosmos, or god
7. other personal needs — Preceding defined comment added by 853.72.162.200|johnK 23:23, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

What improvement of the article do you propose in this post? In any case these seems more relevant to providing evidence for the existence of God than needed for a definition. Arnoutf (talk) 13:32, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Merger proposal

I propose that God be merged into Deity. I think that the content in the God article can easily be explained in the context of Diety, and the Diety article is of a reasonable size that the merging of God will not cause any problems as far as article size or undue weight is concerned. Proud User (talk) 21:28, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

• Comment: This was discussed a little over a year ago, and the consensus was not to merge. StAnselm (talk) 21:33, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
  • God is a dyslexic dog. Pandeist (talk) 21:38, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
• Opppose - too large and separate this concept stuff. Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 05:21, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
• Opppose - These are too large articles. Besides in some religions, specially Abrahamic religions the meanings of God and deity are so different. It doesn't seem to be a good idea to merge them. Keivan.f^Talk 13:25, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Baha for name of God in the Baha'i faith

If my understanding is correct, Baha is the name of the manifestation and not the name of God himself. Binaryhazard (talk) 03:12, 25 December 2015 (UTC)