Talk:Zi Yue (band)

子曰

The purpose of me creating this article with (band) was to help the reader. As the article says the band has also used the English name You.Me.It. though is better known as "Zi yue" Confucius says. looking at Google Books "Ziyue" is more likely to refer to Confucius or the title character Zhao Ziyue of Lao She's 1926 novel. So please leave (band) alone, thank you. In ictu oculi (talk) 21:56, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Ignored, what did I expect. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:54, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

I did a search of "Ziyue" on WP. This was the only topic with that name. Dohn joe (talk) 23:58, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Why are you even here, what is your interest in this article? In ictu oculi (talk) 00:56, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Trying to improve WP, just like any other article I edit. Dohn joe (talk) 02:02, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 11 December 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: NO CONSENSUS. TheJack15 (talk) 11:27, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

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Ziyue (band) → Ziyue – The basename already redirects here. Per WP guidelines and practice, a basename does not redirect to a disambiguated name unless it is a member of a group of articles which are always disambiguated (U.S. placenames, UK constituencies, etc.). The only other notable topic that includes this name is Sun Ziyue, which is a WP:partial title match. Dohn joe (talk) 16:02, 11 December 2015 (UTC) Relisted. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 06:02, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

For the record the basename "already redirects here" only because of an undicussed move pushing the band over what would previously have given search results with various results. For the time being I have redirected it to the Analects since it might as well go there rather than anywhere else. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:49, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

And I reverted. Let's wait until this RM closes before moving titles, please. Dohn joe (talk) 18:50, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

You mean redirecting. But you're arguing from a position forced by undiscussed move of the band over the search result, and now the argument in your RM is → because there was an undiscussed move creating a redirect to (band) → and because when the undiscussed move was reverted a redirect was created → therefore automatic creation of the redirect justifies the undiscussed move and → it must be moved again. If you want to restore the situation before then put a G6 on it and let it be as it was Ziyue, and not redirect anywhere, so entering it brings up search results for all topics, which was how it was. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:55, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose as with the other RMs initiated by this User, the User doesn't understand the difference between a "topic" and a "title". A title is the title of an article, a topic is something covered within an article. WP:DISAMBIGUATION and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC both refer to "topic" not "title". So the question is not what titles en.wp has, but what topics en.wp has. The one on zh.wp is "The zǐyuè (子月) is the period starting with Dàxuě (大雪), i.e. the solar term before the winter solstice." so Ziyue (calendar) naturally would be a redirect to that topic (not title) in the Sexagenary cycle article. Apart from this one topic of course there are also names, Ziyue, but the only Ziyue who could be referred to without the surname would be Zhao Ziyue the protagonist of the novel of the same name by Lao She, and likewise should redirects to Lao She. So, the first question here is how many non-partial matches does en.wp have? And the answer comparing with Google Books is "2, at a pinch 3" Ziyue (calendar) the most common, Ziyue (band) the second most common, third most common Ziyue (without his surname Zhao) very occasionally for the title character of the novel Zhao Ziyue by Lao She. Unlike the novel's hero the tennis star is never ever in Google Books referred to as "Ziyue" without "Sun". So, next question, how many hits in Google Books do these two main topics get? That's a question which should be in the RM proposal above, and isn't. Why? In ictu oculi (talk) 16:14, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

  Please see this WP search for all uses of "Ziyue" across WP. There are 49. 31 of them are for Sun Ziyue. The other ones do not even have redirects (unless you have created some while I'm typing this). That means they are not "topics". One passing mention in an article does not make it a "topic". I have no issue with taking non-article topics into account for primarytopic purposes - but in this case, there are none. Dohn joe (talk) 16:19, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

How is that relevant? Please focus on topic as described by the guidelines and support your case among these topics with Google Book search results to demonstrate one topic is the absolute majority of all topics. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:21, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Guideline: WP:DISAMBIGUATION. Which says: "[A term is ambiguous] most often when it refers to more than one subject covered by Wikipedia". If it's not covered by Wikipedia, it doesn't count. The search I provided shows that there is no other topic covered by Wikipedia besides this one. There are partial title matches, and one passing reference to a month in one article. That is not coverage. Please review the guideline. Dohn joe (talk) 16:57, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Well that's nonsense isn't it. The Ziyue (calendar) is clearly covered in the article on Sexagenary cycle and what's more it was already covered as a topic before I created this article on the Chinese rock band. So bolding your text doesn't make Ziyue (calendar) any more or less covered. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:05, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Calidum T|C 16:43, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Hello User:Calidum could you please click on Google Books search results and comment? thank you. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:05, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

• User:BrownHairedGirl thanks for relisting, Fyi the undiscussed move reverted above required creation of Ziyue (disambiguation) rather than at the baseline. Can closer please move the dab over the baseline. Thanks. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:23, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.