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==Penny Adkins birth date==
==Penny Adkins birth date==
Since there is a dispute between some about when Adele's mother was born, it should be discussed here. The newspaper supplied as a reference suggests that she was born late 1969 or 1970. Wikia does not contradict this either. However assuming that she was born in England, the birth registry shows a PENNY SUSAN BROOKS ADKINS registered in ISLINGTON 5C 936 in December 1968. I do not think that we need to include this information. But we should be able to resolve this via discussion. [[User:Graeme Bartlett|Graeme Bartlett]] ([[User talk:Graeme Bartlett|talk]]) 22:23, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
Since there is a dispute between some about when Adele's mother was born, it should be discussed here. The newspaper supplied as a reference suggests that she was born late 1969 or 1970. Wikia does not contradict this either. However assuming that she was born in England, the birth registry shows a PENNY SUSAN BROOKS ADKINS registered in ISLINGTON 5C 936 in December 1968. I do not think that we need to include this information. But we should be able to resolve this via discussion. [[User:Graeme Bartlett|Graeme Bartlett]] ([[User talk:Graeme Bartlett|talk]]) 22:23, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2272909/New-mum-Adele-gives-mother-plush-London-pad-worth-600k.html gives Adele's mother as 44 and was published on 3 Feb 2013, so unless the mother had a birthday very early in the year her birth year would be 1969; if the birth was later then she would be born 1968 - the registration would be correct. I am doubtful if Mark Evans had any part in Adele's childhood and anything he has said on the subject should be taken with a pinch of salt - the facts still stand. I have posted birth and marriage registration details to RyanTQuinn's talk page - I can now see the information has already been posted elsewhere - http://ethnicelebs.com/adele The only way this dispute could be resolved is by leaving out the birth year of the mother but that would falsify the facts - and I thought Wikipedia concerned facts [User:The Data Junkie|The Data Junkie]]

Revision as of 22:51, 14 January 2016

Adele's Nationality

It is not incorrect to say that she is British but it would be more accurate to specify and say that she is English, since she is from the country of England. A British person can either be English (England), Scottish (Scotland), or Welsh (Wales). The United Kingdom is a sovereign state that consists of several countries. A person's nationality, here on Wikipedia, is determined by the country that they're from. Therefore, it is more accurate to say that Adele is English, since Great Britain and the United Kingdom are not actually countries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doubletoasted01 (talk • contribs) 19:33, 27 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Our article on the United Kingdom describes it both as a sovereign state and a country, but generally with articles on UK nationals, we should stick with the default nationality unless there's a good reason to change it. For example, were Adele herself to say that she identified as English rather than British then we'd reflect that in her article. This is Paul (talk) 20:43, 27 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Paul is correct. Doubletoasted, your ideas about Great Britain and the UK not being countries are pretty wide of the mark, and I can inform you that British people can obviously not simply be English, Welsh or Scottish. Quite apart from the Northern Ireland question, a person can be a mixture, as Adele clearly is. Where there is any doubt, we stick to sovereign nationality. Your nationality is stated on your passport, and Adele's will say British. Not only that, you can see on the article talk page a consensus for British. Bretonbanquet (talk) 14:04, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A British person can simply be English, Welsh, or Scottish. It depends on where they are from, and in Adele's case, she is from England. Therefore, she is English. Nearly every British person is referred to as English, Welsh, or Scottish on Wikipedia. How is this any different for Adele? Even though her father is Welsh, she was born and raised in England. Therefore, she is English. A British person whose parents are not from Great Britain or the same British country does not change the fact that they are either English, Scottish, or Welsh, depending on where exactly they are from.

From my understanding, she is referred to as British and not English because her father is from Wales. Ethnically, she is a mixture (English from her mother and Welsh from her father). However, a person's nationality is supposed to be based on where they are from, not their ethnicity. She is from England. Therefore, she is English. Her father being from Wales does not make her not English and only British. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Perrie101 (talk • contribs) 16:47, 5 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Perrie101: – Firstly, your understanding of English / Scottish / Welsh is not correct. There is no hard and fast rule to decide who is English or whatever, as there is no official nationality of English / Scottish / Welsh / Northern Irish. Because these are not sovereign states, it doesn't matter where someone was born, it's just a matter of self-identification. Birthplace is simply not strictly a defining factor. Tony Blair is a good example. I myself was technically born in England, but I am not ethnically nor in any other sense English, and there is no official paperwork or personal documentation which says I am. Adele is referred to as British because she announced that she's proud to be British and it's sourced. She may identify as much with Wales as England, as many, many people with mixed parentage do. If she came out with something like "I'm English" then it can be changed. But Wikipedia goes by reliable sources. You would need to be able to back up your idea about nationality and ethnicity with reliable sources too. Britishness is always 100% verifiable (therefore reliable), and Englishness / Scottishness etc rarely is. Where there is doubt, extra sources are needed. Secondly, it's better to have this out on the relevant talk page, not here. Cheers, Bretonbanquet (talk) 17:16, 5 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Where are the sources that state that Adele identifies as British? And what explains that almost every British person is referred to as English, Scottish, or Welsh here on Wikipedia if that is incorrect to you? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Perrie101 (talk • contribs) 19:20, 5 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It got archived along with the rest of the discussion; it's here [1]. I have not said it is incorrect to refer to British people as English, Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish, but it is wrong to do so without it being verifiable. All BLPs should be reliably sourced, and just taking a random stab at it based on where someone was born is just chronically poor editing, and totally unencyclopedic. This is very badly policed on Wikipedia, and it's one of the aspects that shows it up badly against proper encyclopedias. Lots of British BLPs show the subject as English / Scottish etc with nothing to back it up whatsoever. "British" is never wrong, but anything else risks inaccuracy if it's thoughtlessly done. Plenty of BLPs do describe the subject as British, however; Tony Blair being one, Sean Connery (perhaps surprisingly) being another, off the top of my head. If you can find something where Adele says she's English, or Welsh, then it can be changed. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:52, 5 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Why would anything else other than British risk inaccuracy? And why would Adele identify with Wales just as much as with England if she was born and raised in England by her single English mother without her Welsh father? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doubletoasted01 (talk • contribs) 22:08, 16 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Why would it? Because she's described herself as British. That would suggest that anything else might be inaccurate. As for the other, you'd perhaps better ask her. You imply that Englishness (or Welshness) can be divined by somebody who doesn't even know her, just by taking a cursory look at her upbringing. Just guesswork, and it has no place in an encyclopedia. Bretonbanquet (talk) 01:40, 17 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's only a matter of where a person was born and raised. She was born and raised in England. She is British, but she is also English and saying that someone is English is more accurate and specific because it destinguishes them from other British people who come from different countries such as Scotland and Wales. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doubletoasted01 (talk • contribs) 19:32, 19 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That's the problem right there. You think it's just down to where someone was born and raised. Got a source for that? That might be true for some people, but for others that's completely misleading. People can identify with whatever nationality they want, without having this stuff forced upon them by people who make guesses. She has said she's British; she hasn't said she's English. I don't think that's too hard to grasp. Do you ever sign your posts? Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:00, 19 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a source for Adele describing herself as English: “But I sounded like Dick Van Dyke doing it — even though I’m English, I was putting on this fake English accent,” she says. “So it’s not something I want to pursue, acting. I just want to be a singer, and I don’t think you can be good at lots of things. You can be good at one thing, and mediocre at all the others" - http://carnageandculture.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/english-music-superstar-adele-23-and.html. As you said above, 'if you can find something where Adele says she's English, or Welsh, then it can be changed', it would make sense to change her nationality to English on the official page. Especially given when most English celebrities on Wikipedia, such as Christian Bale or Lily Allen, are referred to as being 'English' rather than 'British'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.179.10.144 (talk) 16:21, 14 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone for Tenuous? She doesn't actually say "I'm English" now does she? And we can't use a blog anyway. This is Paul (talk) 17:22, 14 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's the kind of thing that might possibly be useful if it were a reliable source. You would still need to establish a consensus, and also bear in mind that the above editors calling for "English" (Doubletoasted01 and Perrie101) are both the same person and both blocked, so they don't count. Bretonbanquet (talk) 17:51, 14 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]


Well yes she actually did Paul, if you read the quote: "“But I sounded like Dick Van Dyke doing it — even though I’m English".

I'm perplexed as to why this such a big issue to you guys, surely if artists like Amy Winehouse or Lily Allen is listed on Wikipedia as being 'English singers', then wouldn't it make sense to also list Adele as one for consistency's sake? You don't seem to be trying to change all the other singer's wikipedia profiles to 'British', do you? You're not exactly on Duffy's wikipedia trying to edit it from 'Welsh singer' to British.

And here's another source from her official profile on Vogue: "Rose Moon, who travels with Adele and works for her management company, tells me, “She just comes across as very approachable, just a normal English girl, and so people say hello and want to talk to her everywhere she goes" - http://www.vogue.com/865375/adele-one-and-only/

I'll be interested to see what kind of weak excuse you'll come up with for rejecting this one as well ^

Or is an official article on Vogue not a credible source now, either?

I'm sure you can understand that what happens on other articles doesn't have the slightest effect on what happens on this one. Why should it? Your new source is also ropey; a passing remark by someone other than the subject. And while you're asking why it's such a big issue to others, why is it such a big issue to you? All you ever do (under that IP anyway) is change "British" to "English". Why's that, then? In any case, since neither is right or wrong, you need a consensus to overturn the existing consensus. You're alone at the moment. Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:33, 14 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]


Do you have a source for her saying "I'm British"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.179.10.144 (talk) 10:11, 15 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

In response to the IP's last comment (no longer here), here is the source for British [2]. "I'm so proud to be British" flying our flag etc etc. Any source for English is going to have to trump that. It's got nothing to do with shutting down debates or conspiracy theories. Just the usual Wikipedia process. Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:36, 15 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's actually still there as they posted in the section below this one. This is Paul (talk) 18:45, 15 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, haha, well thanks, I didn't think to look there, perhaps unsurprisingly. I thought it got deleted. I've moved it to this section so it makes more sense. Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:22, 15 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No worries, I had a bit of a hissy fit about this earlier on and closed the discussion, but then thought on reflection it probably wasn't such a good idea. This is Paul (talk) 19:33, 15 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No problem :) Yeah, we can leave it open in case anyone else wants to have a say. Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:11, 15 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Geri Halliwell

@Carlos Rojas77: To elaborate, I wasn't cringing because Adele has stated Geri Haliwell as an influence, I was because the section draws too much attention to her which is unsubstantiated. When you scratch the surface, you realise there are a number of problems. The first is what the text is saying: Haliwell is described as her favourite Spice Girl, and it is noted that she "loves" the Spice Girls and says "they made her what [she] is", but then this is construed as meaning they are a "major influence in regard to her love and passion for music" which is not what the source says. The sources seem to point to the fact that she was enjoyed and was influenced by the Spice Girls as a child, but they don't go into any further detail. It is for that reason that I think the picture should be excluded. It would be different if sources could be found that substantiate the Spice Girls as having major impact on Adele's singing or an album, but otherwise the picture of Haliwell attaches undue weight to her influence on her career and seems to tenuously tie in with the fact she liked the Spice Girls. I'm not a fan of putting pictures, partiuclarly of other popular figures, on BLPs unless there is a really good reason why. What's more, the sources being used are from Now magazine, which are clearly not reliable, especially seeing as this article is in quite good shape, and, with work, I believe could pass for GA. —JennKR | ☎ 20:02, 5 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. I've always thought the inclusion of Halliwell's picture was unnecessary as it made the article look too crowded. But assuming there was enough room, if any image should be there, surely it should be someone with greater influence, like say, Etta James or Ella Fitzgerald, whose music seems to have inspired her own career much more. This is Paul (talk) 22:39, 5 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I also agree. Like the OP, I never really like seeing images of other people in BLPs. I just don't see a strong enough rationale for including Halliwell's photo here. A photo of the two of them together might be different. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:03, 5 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

BRIT Awards 2012 : James Corden interrupts Adele's speech

Xb2u7Zjzc32 (talk) 20:51, 22 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Adele has changed the lives of millions, as her music connects with people on a deeper level than most other musicians of her kind. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mirperez (talk • contribs) 14:19, 23 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This article made the Top 25 Report again

This article was the eighth most popular on Wikipedia according to the Top 25 Report with 903,238 views for the week November 15 to 21, 2015. 25 was released November 20. This article has been in the Top 25 every week for the last five. Congratulations to the editors of this article for the exposure of their work.  SchreiberBike | ⌨  07:55, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 26 November 2015

File:151026-adele-640x426.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.160.126.234 (talk) 13:00, 26 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Adele's Ethnicity

During an interview conducted by Dutch TV RTL in 2009 Adele confirmed that she was of Turkish, Spanish and English extraction. http://www.dailysabah.com/nation/2015/12/10/my-family-is-turkish-spanish-english-adele-tells-dutch-tv-in-her-2009-interview. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.241.130.229 (talk) 13:42, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Is that reported by any other sources? This is Paul (talk) 16:51, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Who cares? We're all every ethnicity if you go back far enough. Unless it's particularly important to her then it's neither relevant nor interesting. Btljs (talk) 19:18, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well, Btljs, I was just being polite because I suspected there probably wouldn't be any others, but I do tend to agree with you. It's not important unless she thinks so. This is Paul (talk) 22:09, 10 December 2015 (UTC)::: It's important to her and she is proud of her heritage. Why shouldn't she be? Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R95x82DxXY0 scroll to 7:01 and hear from her mouth for yourselves.[reply]
Everyone is something else if you go back far enough.  — Calvin999 11:11, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes that maybe the case but Adele identifies with her roots just like Kim Kardashian identifies with her Armenian roots. Arn't biographies and Wikipaedia articles meant to contain all information relating to an individual or topic? Why should we omit Adele's roots? It's not like she did a DNA test to determine her roots. She identifies as being of Turkish, Spanish, English ancestry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.241.130.229 (talk) 14:05, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well it would be odd if someone born and raised in the US didn't identify with their American roots. I'm not sure what your point is there. Really this information isn't important, unless Adele makes a big thing of it, and as far as I can see she hasn't. Like the rest of us she probably acknowledges that, if we trace our family history back far enough, we all have ancestors from other parts of the world. This is Paul (talk) 17:36, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Paul please re-read my post. I made a reference to the fact that Kim Kardashian identifies with her ARMENIAN [Emphasis added] roots not AMERICAN as you have interpreted it. If Adele identifies with her Turkish, Spanish and English roots what is wrong with that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.241.130.229 (talk) 04:13, 14 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oh yes, so you did. :) I thought it was a bit of an odd thing to say. To be fair though the words do look very similar at a quick glance. This is Paul (talk) 18:25, 14 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"Arn't biographies and Wikipaedia articles meant to contain all information relating to an individual or topic?" > No, they are meant to contain a reasonable amount of important and notable information. This is notable if: 1. Lots of sources report it; 2. Adele consistently refers to it; 3. It is reflected somehow in her work ("River Bosphorus" perhaps?) Otherwise it's like reporting someone's hair colour because they once told an interviewer they were having a blonde moment. Btljs (talk) 20:58, 14 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Who is the judge of whether it is "reasonable" and "notable" this is a subjective test incapable of being a determinant of relevant information. Its not like Kim Kardashian speaks about her Armenian roots at every opportunity. It's not like Zayn Malik speaks about his Islamic roots at every opportunity. Yet their Wikipedia entries mention it. Why not for Adele aswell? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.241.130.229 (talk) 14:17, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
We are the judges - all of us editors. We interpret the criteria laid down in the WP:MOS as to what is notable in each individual case. There is no legal precedent in deciding these things, so it is not directly relevant to a page on one person what is or isn't included on a page about another. Having said all that, if you can point to several references where Adele's ethnicity is discussed, then there is a case for including it. (By the way, you should sign your comments by typing ~~~~ at the end.) Btljs (talk) 14:34, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 24 December 2015

Split the paragraph containing details of album 25 so that 25 is in a paragraph of its own. Paf uk (talk) 10:12, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Paf uk: Do you meant the paragraph in the lede section? It is only three sentences long and the lede is already four paragraphs long, which is the rule-of-thumb maximum length for a lede. Any other opinions? /wia🎄/tlk 19:44, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Not done: Paragraph in lead is fine per Wikiisawesome's comments, as is the level 3 section 2015: 25. Sam Sailor Talk! 13:45, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Adele proposal

Just a reminder that there is an ongoing discussion regarding the potential creation of WikiProject Adele. All comments are welcome and appreciated! MaranoFan (talk) 11:54, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox image

The image is 7 years old and in black and white. In my opinion, it is a very outdated image. I would prefer File:Adele someone like you - cropped-2.jpg or even File:2013 GGA Adele.jpg over the one in the infobox. Thoughts? --MaranoFan (talk) 16:03, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think the first one is probably better as it shows what she does. She just appears to be waving in the other one. This is Paul (talk) 19:08, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The image in the article may be 7 years old but it's still the best headshot of her uploaded on here to date. Those two do not compare in that respect: a sideways despondent look, and a wave from the distance in the other. --RyanTQuinn (talk) 20:57, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Vocal range.

Hello, I've been trying to post this reference regarding her vocal range. It says that she's a contralto, not mezzo-soprano and it keeps getting reverted. [3].

Not trying to be rude, but if its because some people actually read the reference and reverted anyways due to them believing she's a mezzo, they have to accept the fact she's a contralto. Just saying. --XenaDance-- (talk) 20:43, 13 January 2016 (UTC) --XenaDance--[reply]

It's probably because the website is not regarded as a reliable source. If you can find something else that says she is a contralto, like a quality newspaper, then I would think it should be all right. This is Paul (talk) 21:23, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Is this one good enough? [1]

--XenaDance-- (talk) 21:51, 13 January 2016 (UTC) --XenaDance--[reply]

Yes that's great. This is Paul (talk) 22:38, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Gilbert, Andrew (January 26, 2009). "Singer-songwriter Adele brings introspection to Brit-soul scene". Seattle Times.

Penny Adkins birth date

Since there is a dispute between some about when Adele's mother was born, it should be discussed here. The newspaper supplied as a reference suggests that she was born late 1969 or 1970. Wikia does not contradict this either. However assuming that she was born in England, the birth registry shows a PENNY SUSAN BROOKS ADKINS registered in ISLINGTON 5C 936 in December 1968. I do not think that we need to include this information. But we should be able to resolve this via discussion. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:23, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2272909/New-mum-Adele-gives-mother-plush-London-pad-worth-600k.html gives Adele's mother as 44 and was published on 3 Feb 2013, so unless the mother had a birthday very early in the year her birth year would be 1969; if the birth was later then she would be born 1968 - the registration would be correct. I am doubtful if Mark Evans had any part in Adele's childhood and anything he has said on the subject should be taken with a pinch of salt - the facts still stand. I have posted birth and marriage registration details to RyanTQuinn's talk page - I can now see the information has already been posted elsewhere - http://ethnicelebs.com/adele The only way this dispute could be resolved is by leaving out the birth year of the mother but that would falsify the facts - and I thought Wikipedia concerned facts [User:The Data Junkie|The Data Junkie]]

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