Talk:Beowulf

Merge Proposal

It has been suggested in April 2012 that Beowulf and Hrólf Kraki be merged into the section Sources and analogues of this article. Indeed, the merge makes sense and would help clarifying facts, theories about sources and resemblances by providing their context. It can also be merged into Hrólf Kraki in the the first section of the article (Beowulf).

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Merger Vote

• Support, as said above. --Caleb Crabb 15:02, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
• Support, makes sense. Trigaranus (talk) 16:19, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose for now. The Beowulf and Hrólf Kraki isn't a great page, needs clean up and at the moment no reason to bring all that text here. But I'd like to review both pages later when I have more time and return to make a better recommendation. It's possible that the Beowulf and Hrólf Kraki page can be trimmed significantly and then only a small part brought to be mentioned here. Truthkeeper (talk) 16:31, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
• Support (throwing my vote late in the game) Icarus of old (talk) 05:11, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
• I've added a phrase to the text of the article, pointing to Hrólf_Kraki#Beowulf, which I think is an appropriate place for now--it's not a very happening topic in Beowulf scholarship, and that article, and the related Hrólfs saga kraka, already mentions the issue. So I'll merge the relevant content to Hrólf_Kraki#Beowulf, with some trims along the way--because let's face it, it's not the best bit of content we have. Drmies (talk) 17:51, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Interpretation and criticism

So Tolkien gets three lines and Sonya R Jensen has more than four paragraphs? That doesn't seen right and has now been deleted by two different editors. Why does this section keep coming back? AndrewJFulker (talk) 07:55, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

I think we should be told, is the user Sophiejensen actually related to the 'critic' Sonya R Jensen ? It would explain the fact that they keep adding reams of information from this source on the subject. AndrewJFulker (talk) 09:06, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

A few libraries hold copies, but I'd like to see references to peer-reviewed literature. I can't even tell if ARRC is a reputable publishing firm; searches come back to Australian River Restoration Centre or Jensen, so I'm not real comfortable there. I see no way that four paragraphs can be justified by the work of any author unsupported by the response of other authors.--Prosfilaes (talk) 09:24, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Quick question for Andrew -- what is it, exactly, that Tolkien says in his 'Monsters & Critics'? He's famous, educated, well-read, articulate, and interesting. But, with regard to this particular work, what does it all mean? Okay, so the poem is worth reading. Great news. But, apart from that, it's pretty thin on the ground. I'm sure I'll be shot down in flames yet again for posting this, but just can't help asking the question. With regard to my dual identity, I have another question. It was a pretty thin disguise, wasn't it? But I'm off the Wiki site now, and have deleted my RFC as well, so that should keep all the 'watchers' happy. Best, Sophiejensen (talk) 02:29, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi Sophie. First, this page is a mess and needs a total clean up. Unfortunately there are very few Wikipedia editors working on literature related pages and fewer still willing to take on a piece such as Beowulf. I took a stab at The Dragon (Beowulf) a few years back when it was up for deletion but that was only a quick fix and that page too needs a lot of work. And yes, Tolkien is also mentioned there. I did go to the library for sources on this at some point, and at that time checked out Tolkien as well as a number of other sources, but it was a project I simply didn't have time for. (I'm sure you're aware, we do this as a volunteer basis when we have time). As to your specific question, my view is that Tolkien certainly is important in terms of bringing Beowulf studies into the 20th century; in that sense he certainly has to be mentioned. That said, obviously much good scholarly work has been done since, and that too should be added. I've been busy recently and haven't been keeping tabs on what's going on here, but I'm certainly willing to have a look at your work and at some point integrate it. When I'll have time is an issue though - but if you're lucky someone else will pick up the ball and run with it. If you're interested in editing here, and are a Beowulf specialist, one way around the conflict of interest might be to begin tidying the page and adding material from other scholars, and let another editor read, evaluate and add your work. I think that would be a workable solution. The last time I looked, and I have to confess it was a long time ago, I thought quite a lot could be trimmed back first before developing the article. Let me know what you think. Just so you know, I'm very busy and may not respond immediately to any posts, but you can always leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks, Truthkeeper (talk) 02:49, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

I agree that this article needs nothing less than a total rewrite. It actually wouldn't be too difficult of a thing to do, but it would take some time invested. I have a laundry list of things to do around here, but would love to see this happen, and will eventually do it if someone else doesn't. :bloodofox: (talk) 02:58, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Post deleted in the interests of my privacy. Sophiejensen (talk) 01:19, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

The Fordham.edu version appears to have an error

There is a link to this version in the Wikipedia article: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/beowulf-oe.asp

It appears to have an error in the ninth line where it says, "oð þæt him æghwylc ymbsittendra" instead of "oð þæt him æghwylc þara ymbsittendra". There may be other errors too. Should the link to that page be replaced with a better online edition? I tried emailing the address at the bottom of the page, but it bounced. Let99 (talk) 06:00, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

What source are you referring to that makes that an error? The manuscript is not in good condition, so some inconsistency in readings is not unexpected, and emendations can be all over the map. It's also quite possible that is an error, and we have no better place to point at.--Prosfilaes (talk) 06:48, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

The original has þara in it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Beowulf.firstpage.jpeg Let99 (talk) 06:49, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

This is not an error in the Fordham source, but a different editorial decision. Some editors support emendation to ymbsittendra because the verse as it stands is metrically non-normative. I personally disagree with this decision, but it's one with a long editorial history. --Roidenavarre

Bibliography removed

I removed what is essentially a bibliography of the poem, not the reference bibliography of the article. Some of this may be returned to the article, but it needs cleanup as well. Drmies (talk) 01:24, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Dictionaries

• Cameron, Angus, et al. Dictionary of Old English (Microfiche). Toronto: Published for the Dictionary of Old English Project Centre for Medieval Studies University of Toronto by the Pontifical Institute of Medieval Studies, 1986/1994.

Text

Hypertext editions

• 18th century autotypes of the cotton MS Vitellius A XV (facsimile), 1882
• Klaeber, Frederick, ed. Beowulf and the Fight at Finnsburg. Third ed. Boston: Heath, 1950.
• McMaster University. Beowulf in hypertext.

Modern English translations

• Alexander, Michael. Beowulf : A Verse Translation. Penguin Classics; Rev. ed. London: New York, 2003.
• Anderson, Sarah M., Alan Sullivan, and Timothy Murphy. Beowulf. A Longman Cultural Edition; New York: Pearson/Longman, 2004.
• Crossley-Holland, Kevin; Mitchell, Bruce. Beowulf: A New Translation. London: Macmillan, 1968
• Donaldson, E. Talbot, and Nicholas Howe. Beowulf: A Prose Translation: Backgrounds and Contexts, Criticism. A Norton Critical Edition. 2nd ed. New York: Norton, 2002.
• Garmonsway, George Norman, et al. Beowulf and Its Analogues. Revised ed. London: Dent, 1980.
• Gordon, R.K.. The Song of Beowulf:Translation into English prose. New York, 1922. ISBN 978-0-486-27264-1
• Gummere, Francis Barton (1855–1919). 'Beowulf'. St Petersburg, Florida: Red & Black, 2007. ISBN 978-0-9791813-1-3. Translation originally published in 1909.
• Heaney, Seamus (2001), Beowulf: A New Verse Translation, New York: WW Norton, ISBN 0-393-32097-9.
• Hudson, Marc. Beowulf. Introduction and notes by Martin Garrett. Ware: Wordsworth Classics, 2007.
• Lehmann, Ruth. Beowulf: An Imitative Translation. 1st ed. Austin: University of Texas Press, 1988.
• Liuzza, R. M. Beowulf: A New Verse Translation. Orchard Park, NY: Broadview Press, 2000.
• Osborn, Marijane. Annotated List of Beowulf Translations.
• Ringler, Dick. Beowulf: A New Translation For Oral Delivery. Hackett Publishing Company, 2007. ISBN 978-0-87220-893-3.
• Raffel, Burton. Beowulf: A New Translation with an Introduction by Burton Raffel, afterword by Robert P. Creed New York: Mentor/New American Library, 1963.
• Rebsamen, Frederick R. Beowulf : A Verse Translation. 1st ed. New York, NY: Icon Editions, 1991.
• Swanton, Michael (ed.). Beowulf (Manchester Medieval Studies). Manchester: University, 1997.
• Szobody, Michelle L. & Justin Gerard (Illustrator) Beowulf, Book I: Grendel the Ghastly. Greenville, SC: Portland Studios, 2007. ISBN 978-0-9797183-0-4
• Wright, David. Beowulf. Panther Books, 1970. ISBN 0-586-03279-7

Old English and modern English

• Chickering, I; Howell, D (2006) [1977], Beowulf: a dual-language edition, New York: Anchor, ISBN 0-385-06213-3.
• Fulk, RD (2010), The Beowulf Manuscript: Complete Texts and The Fight at Finnsburgh, Dumbarton Oaks Medieval Library, Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, ISBN 978-0-674-05295-6.

Old English with glossaries

• Alexander, Michael (2005) [2000], Beowulf: A Glossed Text (2 ed.), London: Penguin.
• Jack, George (1997), Beowulf: A Student Edition, New York: Oxford University Press.
• Klaeber, Frederick, ed. Beowulf and the Fight at Finnsburg. Third ed. Boston: Heath, 1950.
• Mitchell, Bruce; Robinson, Fred C (1998), Beowulf: an edition with relevant shorter texts, Oxford, UK: Malden, MA: Blackwell.
• Porter, John. Beowulf: text and translation. Anglo-Saxon Books, 1991.
• Wrenn, C.L., ed. Beowulf with the Finnesburg Fragment. 3rd ed. London: Harrap, 1973.

Audio

• Ringler, Dick & Norman Gilliland. Beowulf: The Complete Story—A Drama. Madison, WI: NEMO Productions, 2006. ISBN ISBN 0-9715093-2-8
• Baker, P. Readings from Beowulf. In Old English.
• Bagby, Benjamin. Beowulf: the epic in performance

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