User talk:Mattythewhite

Assistance

Can a brother get a hand, please? I was trying to source Miguel Veloso's international goals lest they are removed, but left them in appalling display because it is not the type of chart on the matter I am accustomed to (thus, could also not duly relocate it to the stats chart - after club and int'l statistics - per WP:FOOTY guidelines).

Thanks in advance --Quite A Character (talk) 09:44, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Fixed. :-) Robby.is.on (talk) 09:51, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks @Robby.is.on: you got there before me.

@Quite A Character: if a similar thing happens again, please would you undo your edit rather than leaving the visible page in such a mess. Thanks, Struway2 (talk) 09:56, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

I'd 'done' it too. @Quite A Character: there was a large error message to the effect that a ref was missing the closing tag. Fixing that was all that was needed (and copying to the correct location); you'd written <ref name=xxx> instead of <ref name=xxx/>, note the closing '/'. Eagleash (talk) 10:02, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

I (kind of) see your point @Struway2:, but i IMMEDIATELY came looking for assistance after my edit, assuming it would be dealt with rather quickly. Sorry for any inconvenience, and thank you all for your collaboration. --Quite A Character (talk) 10:06, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

• Under same title is fine, because I also need "assistance" here... In Ander Capa, do we really need to play by the book that much (correct me if I'm wrong, but did you not mention back in the day that we could - or that you were of the opinion - update a player's new club before 1 July if everything was agreed on?)? I mean, if Mr. Capa fails the medical we can always revert, but the transfer has been CONFIRMED.

Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 14:39, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

If sources say 1 July, then 1 July it is. Mattythewhite (talk) 14:43, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the reverting further back on Ovie Ejaria! I had missed those earlier edits by a different editor. AddWittyNameHere (talk) 20:37, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Matty

Mattythewhite how is that vandalising alal I did is make current changes he was sacked by Oldham and I dont know how to source content — Preceding unsigned comment added by SossieLondon (talk • contribs) 20:08, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

You should look into how to use references before adding content without any sourcing. You could take a look at WP:REFB. Mattythewhite (talk) 22:25, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Vicente Guaita

Is this sentence correct overall and to the new and unsuspecting reader(s)? "On 2 February 2018, after reports circulated in the press, Crystal Palace manager Roy Hodgson confirmed Guaita had agreed to join the English club from 1 July on a free transfer. On 8 June, the move was reconfirmed."

I know i am not a native speaker so i may be missing something, but what's the need in constantly repeating "club", name of player or year in SAME paragraph? Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 21:32, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Unless I'm missing something, I only see "club" once, the player's name once and year once once. So I'm not sure what the repetition is you refer to. What I would recommend though is removing the "after reports circulated in the press" bit. Mattythewhite (talk) 22:22, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

• Ah, i see the confusion i have caused :( The sentence shown above is a mix of stuff i wrote as well as other users (the first time i "stepped in" this is what the sentence looked like https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vicente_Guaita&diff=next&oldid=823859858, it was not even i who originally inserted it), the reversion resulted in the current version which reads "On 2 February 2018, after reports circulated in the press, Crystal Palace manager Roy Hodgson confirmed Guaita had agreed to join the English club from 1 July on a free transfer. On 8 June, the move was reconfirmed by the club"; the bit of me referring to subjects/years being repeated does not concern Mr. Guaita's article, it's just a thing i have seen in countless articles, not just football ones mind you (but "2018" was written twice in Guaita's Palace section, before an agreement was reached).

P.S. I would very much like to follow on your suggestion and remove that "reports in the press" bit. But i don't feel like being re-reverted all that much (the Palace fan who reverted me yesterday is the one who originally wrote the "reports" part, check it here https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vicente_Guaita&diff=next&oldid=844974735)... --Quite A Character (talk) 20:42, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

I've removed it along with other changes. Do you know where I can find a source Mr Guaita's 2007/08 Tercera División appearances? Mattythewhite (talk) 00:55, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Veteran Spanish User:Mega60 is always a good bet. But since they do not understand English very well, i will contact them and wait for feedback. Then i will report here, as soon as i can. --Quite A Character (talk) 21:44, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

WP:BOLD is probably the most difficult guideline for me to grasp, what does it mean when one engages in such a behaviour and everything is removed/tagged (and again, i'm not being a smart ass, serious doubt)? Believe me, the storyline bits which are tagged for citation will be sourced (if i'm not wrong i wrote them back in the day, more than 5/6 years ago), and the Valencia B stats/category will be reinstated, either by Mr. Mega or myself (also, regarding the publishers, since the name of the website is "theguardian", why are we allowed to write the separate words in the publisher/akin field and not in stuff like "Horta Noticias", which i AGAIN note is two words? Horta being a municipality in Valencia)!

Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 23:02, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

I don't feel as though I was according in accordance with WP:BOLD, I just made the sort of amendments I regularly make to biographical articles.

I'm glad to hear you're keen to re-add the Valencia B stuff, but only if referenced of course.

I'm a little confused, the newspaper is called The Guardian so why would we write it any differently? Mattythewhite (talk) 23:09, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

I guess I'm just making a mess of myself regarding publishers/websites/akin, I guess we should not waste (any more) time discussing that. Like I said on several occasions, your judgement is all I need in this case. I will work in Mr. Guaita's article now regarding the citations, in the meantime let's wait for Mega60's (possible, he has never failed me though) reply. But can you tell me, in a nutshell, what does WP:BOLD mean? --Quite A Character (talk) 09:24, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

• Tags addressed, thus removed (if I failed to do anything with this approach, please do notify me). Now for just a couple of things: 1 - no need for that club's full name in box and chart below, a quick Google search will yield many results for "Recreativo Huelva" as well for just "Recreativo" (similar situation for Celta). I've left it unpiped in storyline, but if it were me I would write "Recreativo" only in storyline as well, since people want so often/bad to pipe them in storyline (speaking of which, you piped some then left others unpiped in your edit); 2 - is winning the PLAYOFFS an honour? No it's not, but I've left your insertion untouched (P.S. so far, could not find anything for his Valencia B numbers); 3 - the youth stuff: I added a source for his club as a kid that you removed (then doubled it for his birthplace), it's clear that he played there before joining Valencia, the years may be (or not, you decide) a question of WP:BOLD in my book, if you remove again there's nothing more I can do, if the club(s) is/are allowed to remain then all will not be lost.

Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 10:39, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

WP:BOLD does give a nutshell description, which is: "Please feel free to make improvements to Wikipedia in a fair and accurate manner." Or are you seeking my opinion on it?

For club names, I was going by BDFutbol, which probably wasn't the best approach on further inspection. We would write Atlético Madrid, rather than Atlético de Madrid, as BDFutbol do. Although I'm unsure about your removal of Vigo from Celta Vigo. I mean, we wouldn't remove Athletic from Wigan Athletic, for instance.

Why do you feel winning the play-offs is not an honour? It is a) a competition in itself and b) results in promotion. So I can't imagine how it wouldn't be considered honour-worthy.

Thanks for re-adding the youth stuff with a source. However, the source doesn't support the years you added to the infobox. Mattythewhite (talk) 14:29, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

1 - thanks for the guideline summary, never bothered to read it past the B-O-L-D i admit it. But you can give me your two cents on it if it's not too much trouble; 2 - Celta is 100% enough if one is going to pipe stuff, like Recreativo i am sure there is only one club named like that in the world. And "Vigo" is not the same as "Athletic" with all due respect, the former is the city from which the club hails from. It would be as "negative" (for lack of a better term) as writing "Osasuna Pamplona" or "Numancia Soria"; again i note, a Google search for just "Celta" will yield thousands of results; 3 - if you're talking "honour" as in the dictionary definition of the word then indeed yes, a real honour to achieve a promotion. But medals are not awarded in these cases, at least not in Spain; like i said (and it was not even i who added the years/clubs in the first place, i just agree with their WP:BOLD approach), if you think it can constitute a BLP violation, then feel free to remove the years and leave just clubs - i will delve on the subject more, in the meantime.

Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 15:47, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

• YEEEEEES! Took me less time than i thought. If you read in the eighth paragraph of the ref i've just added, it says "...y que desde que con ocho años empezó jugando al fútbol (trans. started playing football at age eight), y llegó al Valencia con trece (and arrived at Valencia aged 13), no piensa en otro equipo.". Just a question of doing your maths :) --Quite A Character (talk) 15:52, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Elderson Echiéjilé

They did it again, next they will revert me again accusing me of knowing nothing about Nigerian football(ers)... Per their talk page, i see that your person has already warned this user once, on another subject. --Quite A Character (talk) 22:33, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Abcmaxx

Hey, from where I'm standing, it looks to me like you've breached WP:3RR on Kevin Amankwaah, then used a block to enforce your preferred version. I strongly ask you to reconsider the block, specifically whether or not you are the correct person to have placed this block. stwalkerster (talk) 23:09, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi, I agree I acted against WP:INVOLVED and have unblocked the user. Although I maintain that the user's edits at the article were disruptive and was trying to readd content that was rejected February last year. Mattythewhite (talk) 23:10, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

yeah you rejected and slapped me with a vandalism warning, again all guns blazing and no discussion. Your actions are disproportionate and I'm glad there are sensible admins who saw through this tactic Abcmaxx (talk) 23:23, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Trying the wind-up tactics here, you stay classy :) Mattythewhite (talk) 23:25, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Question

This IP user keeps adding the "Expatriate sportspeople in Japan" to articles. In the pertinent cases we already have the "Spanish expatriates in Japan", so I think the former is overkill. I tried to upgrade that to "Spanish expatriate sportspeople in Japan", but category is not available.

What is your intake in this, please? If I'm in the wrong, I'll stop of course (and now, off to work in V. Guaita!). --Quite A Character (talk) 09:31, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Which IP, and to which articles? But having both of those categories looks fine to me. Mattythewhite (talk) 14:09, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Idiot me, forgot the most important (please see here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/109.255.104.181)! --Quite A Character (talk) 14:13, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

The expatriate categories look fine, although I did https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Josh_Onomah&diff=prev&oldid=845440956 revert [this edit] from that IP yesterday for adding an unsourced category. Mattythewhite (talk) 14:20, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining. As a "bonus" to you and WP, the citation tags you just added to Julen Lopetegui have been dealt with properly. --Quite A Character (talk) 16:33, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Igor Angulo

User:Jugon10 did it once in this player article on 26 June 2017 (please see here https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Igor_Angulo&diff=787633717&oldid=787445111), now they did it again and/or similar. They continue to insert YouTube as sources, turn refs that are well displayed into appalling ones, etc, etc.

This time, they went one up and started inflating stats in box (which you see in this very first "contribution" https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Igor_Angulo&diff=844558394&oldid=836593970). Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 18:13, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Slapped with a warning. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:27, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

I only saw your "pinging of me" now, went there and saw that Mr. Angulo's brother has already translated his request properly. I also see that the user reinserted their version AGAIN (only to be reverted by me!), doing that AFTER your conversation. What's happening with the stats is not so much vandalism as it is insertion of stats for ALL competitions (for example, the 30/14 for Smyrni was changed to 38/20 because the player scored six in eight matches in the cup). But the rest is appalling, and they continue to add the YT stuff as "source". --Quite A Character (talk) 09:22, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

REVERTED AGAIN, also threatened me with legal action!! Can you please do something? I have now reached WP3RR! --Quite A Character (talk) 20:10, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Can you point me to where the legal threat was made? Mattythewhite (talk) 20:12, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

At the end of the WP:FOOTY thread i just created (where he wrote in SPANISH!), it reads "Tendre que poner en conocimiento a mi hermano para que ponga la denuncia correspondiente porque tenemos derecho a que las estadisticas que se indican en la pagina, sean correctas y actualizadas.", meaning "I will have to bring this to the attention of my brother so that he engages in the pertinent legal action because we have the right to have the statistics shown in the page correct and updated.". --Quite A Character (talk) 20:25, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Curiously enough, it's the second time this situation has happened to me. First it was the sibling of Jacobo Sanz Ovejero, with the same M.O. but even worse, took them two years or so to desist... --Quite A Character (talk) 20:30, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Denis Cheryshev

(also, see message above this one, Angulo's brother has reinstated his version AGAIN!)Per the ref i now added to the article, do you think i was correct to reinstate the category you removed or still not? In paragraph #3 of the article, it states in Spanish "Cheryshev, Russian international who also has the Spanish nationality as he spent his formative years in Spain...".

Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 18:55, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

I think it should be explicit that the dual nationality is with Spain and Russia. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:35, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Beg pardon? If the article says he has the SPANISH nationality, and he was born in RUSSIA to a RUSSIAN father, what are the options? But i'll see if i can find another source... --Quite A Character (talk) 20:12, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

DONE! I think for more content we can keep the other source as well, but the one from El País contains exactly what you requested of me (end of paragraph #1, it reads "...and of the season which the footballer with Russian and Spanish nationality is faced with"). --Quite A Character (talk) 20:23, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

I meant what was written in the prose, rather than what is in the reference, which I hadn't even checked. Mattythewhite (talk) 20:26, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Done as well! --Quite A Character (talk) 21:17, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Icelandic League Cup

I can't find an official talk page on which to ask this, so I thought I'd ask you. The Deildabikar, have you any idea if wiki considers it to be an official League Cup and should therefore count towards overall career statistics? Just wondering, as it is a pre-season competition. Cheers. Beatpoet (talk) 19:25, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

I don't think it's regarded as a first-team competition, at least the sources I've used for Iceland stats don't include it. I usually use Soccerway and the Football Association of Iceland official website. For instance, their profiles for Gary Martin (Soccerway, Football Association of Iceland) make no reference to it. Even though, I'd raise it at WT:FOOTY if I were you, for a wider range of feedback. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:43, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Quique Sánchez Flores

Matty, do you think it's possible to protect the article? A user, infamous for their confrontational summaries (last known to me IP was this one, blocked https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/109.180.164.62 - and from his talkpage conversation with me you'll see why), has returned, picking on me in their summaries. My English is very good (now i'm done with diplomacy and false modesties) thank you, there is nothing wrong with the stuff written in Mr. Flores' i believe. Heck, they even revert the WATFORD section which was written entirely by User:The Almightey Drill, an ENGLISH user!! If you point out any shortcomings in my mastery of the language i'll take your word for it, but not this person's!

More serious: their last reversion resulted in removing all three refs i added to the piece (as well as my correction of other refs and the player position in intro), with another taunting summary. What can be done, please? --Quite A Character (talk) 19:13, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Ah, so it's the "Best known for" IP. I'm not going to be around much the next few days to deal with any situations that may occur, so I would recommend you raise it at WP:ANI. Be sure to mention who it is and the IP *should* be dealt with swiftly. Mattythewhite (talk) 01:04, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Iago Aspas

I know i said my English is up to standards, but i have serious doubts with my wording in the last INT'L CAREER info i inserted in this chap's article. I tried to convey he came for Mr. Costa who had scored twice (without actually saying "...replacing Diego Costa who had scored twice..." Why do people always needlessly complicate matters?), but i think the grammatical approach is a bit dismal.

Please correct away, thanks in advance --Quite A Character (talk) 18:40, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

• Trigger-happy at Moutinho. Already reverted myself and later will reach a compromise. --Quite A Character (talk) 18:41, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

I think writing it as "who had scored twice..." would be better. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:49, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Done! --Quite A Character (talk) 19:03, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 18

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Flags

They are acceptable in high(er)-profile games in English football that Welsh clubs have participated in (cf. 1925 FA Cup Final, 1927 FA Cup Final, 1927 FA Charity Shield, 2008 FA Cup Final, 2012 Football League Cup Final, 2013 Football League Cup Final) so why not the matches of lesser prestige that get less attention? The reasoning for they are accepted in the aforementioned articles is that they are from outside the host nation, so I don't see why finals of play-offs, the Football League Trophy or the FA Trophy etc seem to fall exception to that. VEO^onefive 20:55, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Just because they *are* present in those articles doesn't mean they actually *should* be. Whether you can acknowledge it or not, they fall foul of WP:MOSFLAG. This has absolutely nothing to do with the profile of the matches. Mattythewhite (talk) 23:10, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

12 years of editing

Hey, Mattythewhite. I'd like to wish you a wonderful First Edit Day on behalf of the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day! Chris Troutman (talk) 23:46, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Denis Cheryshev

Hi, I noticed that you took down my edit in the Denis Cheryshev honours section that he won the Champions League as it was not from a reliable source. He played 3 games in the group stage of the 2015-16 competition when Real Madrid won it which qualifies him for a winners medal but I can't find any source (apart from transfermarkt) which states this. Would it be worth including this edit but just not with a source or should I just leave it? Thanks. TheLegend027 (talk) 00:42, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Felix Wiedwald

Just checking, Wiedwald has joined or is joining Frankfurt. Confirmed on both clubs websites but this has been reverted and no mention of the transfer or the move on his page now? Many thanks. (talk) 16:30, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Restored with a BBC ref. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:17, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Unsourced changes to team squads

Look out for Amirnaseri2014 (talk · contribs) unsourced changes to squads in club articles. SLBedit (talk) 20:11, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

"Interesting"

Matty,

even though you have already weighed in on the subject in Julen Lopetegui's talkpage, maybe you could follow suit in the user's talkpage (please see here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:87.223.155.254)? So, they ask us a question, we reply and then they say (in quite broken English) "no it's not correct, seems to me you just don't want to correct the article" (told that in my page, and in User:Kante4's he went even further)?!

I doubt this is a language barrier issue, but I have already reinforced WP's guidelines by adding a message in Spanish. It reads "Excuse me? How long have you been in WP (and I don't ask this with malice, but with good intentions)? I have been here 12 YEARS, and here in WP these are the rules: if a player does not play one league match, does not make then bench in Supercup and does not have minutes (not even bench) in the King's Cup he does not have the honour inserted. If you look closely, the wrong honours at Jordi Masip have already been removed. Regards". Did I miss anything?

Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 09:00, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

It does seems odd. Even without particular sources, he wants it to be added with no new "material". You can read it at my talk page, i gave up at some point. We were in a cycle... Kante4 (talk) 09:02, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Regarding reverting my edit on Rúnar Alex Rúnarsson

Hi. You should've checked the edit history of the article better before removing my edit. The edit before mine changed the information in the article itself and sourced it with a legitimate source. I changed the info boxs because that hadn't been done yet. So by undoing my edit you only changed the info in the info boxes, leaving the article clashing. I hope you won't be as rash in the future. All the best. Dalitidlamadur (talk) 18:06, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Okily dokily. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:18, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Santiago Vergini

Thanks for your message re. Santiago Vergini edit. Apologies firstly as I wasn't logged in on making the edit.

There is no question that Vergini is most well known in the English-speaking world for his outrageous own goal. I'm sure you know the one I mean- if not [1], in fact type his name into Youtube or Google and see what it suggests first, if you don't believe me. Ask any Sunderland or Premier League fan. There is no denying that he scored a spectacular own goal in one of the highest-scoring games in the history of the most-watched league in the world. It's hardly a stretch on the imagination to include it in the article, neither is it aggressive or defamatory in any way- it's fact!

I get that articles have to be neutral, so maybe you should review all the following pages of players who are also most famous for an own goal; Festus Baise Chris Brass Peter Enckelman Andres Escobar Wayne Hatswell Jamie Pollock Michael Proctor Djimi Traore Jonathan Walters

As all of the above mention their notable own goals. With the greatest respect, what's the difference here? I suggest you either delete all their sections or re-instate mine. Dsims209 (talk) 18:58, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Please refer to WP:NPOV and WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:01, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Which I have read. Can you tell me how this specifically applies to this article and the others I mention? Dsims209 (talk) 19:25, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Isn't it obvious that describing an own goal as "spectacular" is not adhering to neutral point of view? Also, where does the BBC ref you used support your assertion that "Vergini is particularly notable" for said own goal? Mattythewhite (talk) 19:27, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

The BBC describes the goal as spectacular in the very first line of the article, if you'd care to read it. Dsims209 (talk) 19:29, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

So? Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a sports news service, so why should we mimic the BBC's choice of wording? Mattythewhite (talk) 19:31, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Is the BBC not a reputable source? I can offer the Guardian "a candidate for the most ludicrous own goal in Premier League history" [2] or the Daily Mail "the own goal of the season" [3] if it helps. The Sun also mentions spectacular and "most bizarre" https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/premierleague/426651/southampton-8-sunderland-0/ although whether that is a reputable source is up for debate. How would the BBC say he was notable for it on the actual day of the game? I think four years later with hindsight it is fair to say that is what Vergini is famous for in this country. Surely a reference to the goal is highly pertinent. Dsims209 (talk) 19:40, 20 June 2018 (UTC)