Talk:Joseph-Louis Lagrange

Lagrange's error bound

Does anyone know what is lagrange's error bound?

See Taylor's theorem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.21.169 (talk) 11:58, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Formost mathemetician?

In 1761, Lagrange stood without a rival as the foremost mathematician living.

Greater than Leonhard Euler?

Nothing will be gained by a long discussion of mathematical greatness.

Lagrange's nationality

Is it correct to say that Lagrange was italian-born? Italy did come into existence until half a century after Lagrange's death. At the time of Lagrange's birth, Turin was a part of the Kingdom of Sardinia ruled by the House of Savoy. The Kingdom of Sardinia had a life of over 500 years. The County/Duchy of Savoy had a life of over 700 years. Italy has been in existence less than 150 years. Imposing national identification of our time on historical persons seems rather parochial. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Visoot (talk • contribs) 11:26, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

So there were no Germans before 1871? Someone has to fix the page of Martin Luther (along with hundreds of others)

I think that the guy above makes some confusion between the concepts of nationality and citizenship :-) As well pointed out above, the creation of the national states of Italy and Germany took place mainly because there were the Italian and German Nations. And the birth of these nations happened in both cases almost thousand years before the birth of the respective states. Alex2006 (talk) 14:23, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

A way to avoid partisan discussions, and favor neutral descriptions, would be to say that Lagrange was born in Torino, in the historic Duchy of Savoya, part of present day Italy. --Auró (talk) 21:46, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

This solution would give us information about its birthplace (citizenship), but not about his nationality. And again, the Italian nation was born 1,000 years before the Italian state. Otherwise I suggest to go to the articles about Michelangelo, Dante, Titian and write under thier nationality Tuscan, Florentine, or Venetian: then let's see what happens... The best way to avoid partisan discussion is to remain factual in the discussion. I know that this is a difficult task, but is not impossible. Anyway, I think that Italian-born, French mathematician is the best possible description for Lagrange. Alex2006 (talk) 05:50, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Reading the article Italians indicates that indeed there is consensus about the existence of the nation prior to the unification. I will link to this article.--Auró (talk) 21:46, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for acknowledging the existence of our nation :-) Alex2006 (talk) 05:36, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

This is beside the point. A nationality is not an ethnicity, and the question of how an "ethnic Italian" should be defined is to be treated at Italians. In the 1730s, you were a subject, in this case to the House of Savoy. Only with the French Revolution did the notion of "nationality" even arise, and from that time, it is needless to say, Lagrange was a citizen of the French Republic.

The emergence of an Italian, yes and a German, "ethnic group", is a result of the 19th century. These divisions, now accepted matter-of-factly, are in fact a product of the Napoleonic Wars. For the population of the Occitania/Savoy/Piedmont area, it was a tossup whether they would end up "French", "Italian" or "Swiss", and tossup was performed in 1815, after Lagrange's death. Lagrange's dialect, if he had had any, would have been "Gallo-Italian". The name "Gallo-Italian" says it all. But he was a member of the upper classes, and an enlightenment scholar, so he didn't have any dialect, let alone any tribal affiliations etc.

If you have any references on what percentage of his genetic ancestors were native to Piemont, by all means feel free to break it for to us. --dab (𒁳) 13:02, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

In 19th century the Italian state was born, not the Italian nation, which is about 1000 years older: this was born in the middle ages, together with the language, "il volgare". Dante was Italian, Michelangelo Italian, etc. Of course Lagrange was a subject of the king of Sardinia, but an Italian one (since he was not a Savoyard, and Piedmont was - as is - fully part of the Italian nation), because his mother-tongue was Italian (or a piedmontese idiom). You can read the first volume of the "Storia d'Italia" of Einaudi ("i caratteri originali") about this, or also whatever primary school italian book. If you don't agree, please go first to the Dante or Michelangelo articles, and change their ethnicity according to your theory: then you will meet a lot of other people that will explain it this concept. About Lagrange - it is needles to say - he got the french citizenship when he signed the senatoconsulte of the annexation of his homeland - Piedmont - to the French Empire: it was September 11, 1802 (well after the French revolution). Moreover, in wikipedia there is a guideline, WP:OPENPARA, which specify the nationality to be mentioned in the lead. In this case it is clear, since Lagrange was notable when he left Turin for Berlin. Alex2006 (talk) 13:27, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

La Grange was French, he was born Italian, and later became French

Please, see this link (in French): http://images.math.cnrs.fr/Les-lieux-de-Joseph-Louis-Lagrange.html

The link is from cnrs, a prestigious scientific center. According to what I understood, he was born Piemontan, from a French descent family (the original name "La Grange" became "La Grangia"), but became French during French Revolution (and turned back his name to La Grange, and francized his name in Joseph-Louis instead of Giuseppe Luigi. He also became "Comte de l'Empire" and is French Italian according to this site, I think you need to be French or made French to be "comte de l'Empire": http://global.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/327871/Joseph-Louis-Lagrange-comte-de-lEmpire

Comte de l'Empire, explanations here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobility_of_the_First_French_Empire

Once again: a) Please read the article, all the article, not just the first rows, so you will avoid to repeat here things which are already reported there; b) Please read what I wrote above; c) Please read WP:OPENPARA. According to this guideline (which, as such, can be discussed at its own discussion page but, as long as it exists, can be enforced by administrators), in the opening paragraphs, there is no place for double nationality or citizenship: it must be used that owned by the subject when he became notable: it Lagrange`s case, the Italian one. Using the same criterion for other famous Italian born people, Enrico Fermi is cited in the opening paragraph as being Italian, Riccardo Giacconi as American, Richard Rogers as British. A last note : Using the bold style on a Wikipedia talk page is considered a sign of impertinence. Alex2006 (talk) 10:13, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

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Band wagon

We are told that Lagrange was one of the Enlightenment Era. All his maths could have been produced at any time.