Talk:GISMA Business School

Edit Request - History

Hello everyone, I am employed by Global University Systems (the holding company supporting GISMA Business School) and I’d like to invite pagewatchers and the wider WP community to help me improve the quality of this article. While I do have a conflict of interest with the school, I would like to make it very clear that I am fully compliant to Wikipedia’s COI policies and guidelines and have always tried to work with the community in a constructive manner. I will shortly declare my COI on the WP:COIN page.

I don’t think this article is particularly problematic, but it requires and update and some expansion. It would be useful to use the structure recommended on WP:UNIGUIDE as a guidance to help editors know where the article is heading (even though we might not be able to fill all the gaps right now). Let me know if you agree to that.

I’m sure other editors have come across this issue before, but there seems to be a very limited number of reliable sources in English to build a more comprehensive article. However, I was able to find a few sources in German that might be worth looking at.

Based on those and on some more recent reports, I’ve written the text below for your consideration for a potential History section and I would welcome any feedback you might have:

Proposed Edit

HISTORY GISMA was founded in 1999 as a private non-profit organisation of the state of Lower Saxony. Among its founders was former German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder. According to reports, the idea of setting up an international school in one of the industrial regions of Germany came following a meeting with Bill Gates, bankers and CEOs. The initiative was supported by 26 German companies. During the initial years, organisations such as Continental AG, Georgsmarienhütte Holding GmbH and Volkswagen supported the business school through annual grants and by enrolling their staff onto GISMA's MBA programme. GISMA started offering an MBA awarded by Purdue University, delivered in partnership with the university’s Krannert Graduate School of Management. The programme was delivered in two modules: an 11-month full-time programme and a two-year executive MBA programme (run with a consortium of six partners), from 1999 to 2013. GISMA also built an academic partnership with German public university Leibniz Universität Hannover, through which it offered a weekend MBA until 2015. In 2013, GISMA ran into financial difficulties and began a process of insolvency. At the time, GISMA’s former CEO Sonning Bredemeier told the Financial Times that there were a number of factors contributing to the school’s insolvency, including a downturn in student numbers in 2012. In September 2013, it was announced that GISMA had been acquired by Global University Systems. Since the acquisition, GISMA’s partnerships with both Purdue and Leibniz universities have reached an end. In 2014, the school signed an academic agreement with Maastricht School of Management to deliver an MBA and a Masters in Management in Hannover. In 2016, GISMA announced an academic partnership agreement with Porto Business School (part of University of Porto) to deliver Porto’s Magellan MBA in Hannover. In 2016, GISMA announced a new academic partnership with Grenoble Ecole de Management which would see both schools delivering Grenoble’s triple-accredited MBA and Master in International Business programmes at a new campus in Berlin, which is due to open in early 2017. References

Grateful for everyone’s feedback! - BrandDude (talk) 19:12, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Hello BrandDude, I have expanded the history section based on your suggestions (copyedited for succinctness and flow). I also added material about the school's financial difficulties in 2012/2013 which was in the sources but not suggested by you. Note that the number of references you suggested was excessive. All that is required are a few high-quality ones that verify all the material. The sources I used from the plethora of those suggested were ones in publications which had the most editorial oversight and did not simply regurgitate press releases. Voceditenore (talk) 12:40, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Hello Voceditenore, thanks for your help and I really appreciate your feedback. Do you think it would be worth adding the names of some of the key people in the infobox?

Dr Thorsten Thiel is the managing director:

http://www.mba-journal.de/gisma-eroeffnet-standort-in-berlin/

http://www.studytravel.network/magazine/news/Grenoble_GISMA

Prof Maurits van Rooijen is acting rector:

http://www.universityworldnews.com/article.php?story=2014011517550245 (not sure if this would qualify as RS as this is an opinion feature)

http://www.istoedinheiro.com.br/noticias/economia/20170113/para-onde-vai-europa/449791 (this article is in Portuguese, but there is a quote by van Rooijen stating his position of rector at GISMA)

Dr Steve Priddy is academic dean:

http://www.studytravel.network/magazine/news/Grenoble_GISMA

Let me know your views.

All the best - BrandDude (talk) 15:00, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

• I've added the name of the Managing Director. The others are pretentious and misleading for an institution all of whose MBAs are actually awarded by their "academic partners" (Grenoble, Maastricht School of Management, and University of Porto) and has only one or two full-time faculty members of its own. The GISMA website claims that Priddy is also the "Academic Dean" for Grenoble's programme in London, but there is no such programme. LSBF (like GISMA, owned by Global University Systems) used to have some sort of a Grenoble outpost, but no longer does [1]. However, I presume Priddy is still employed by LSBF in some capacity? Ditto "Acting Rector" Maurits van Rooijen whose real employment is "Chief Academic Officer" at Global University Systems. I'm going to be frank with you here, in their marketing and websites GUS quite deliberately obfuscates the real nature and structure of the various institutions they own. That sort of stuff is not going to be furthered by Wikipedia. Voceditenore (talk) 16:53, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for that, Voceditenore. I appreciate that some of it is still confusing so I agree with your decision to not include Priddy and van Rooijen’s roles until these positions are clearer and until we have sufficient reliable sources. Thanks for taking time to look into this and improving this article. All the best - BrandDude (talk) 17:53, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Edit Request - Introduction

Hello everyone and Page Watchers.

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the holding company supporting GISMA Business School. I would like to extend a hand to the Wikipedia community in an effort to help improve this page and ensure that relevant and correct (sourced) information is present. My Conflict of Interest is that I am an employee of GUS - I seek to be fully compliant with the COI policies and hope to work with all for the improvement of the page. Following making my edit suggestions - I shall declare my COI on the WP:COIN page.

To begin, in the Introduction and following the existing text I would like to have added:

"Since then, GISMA has expanded and opened a new campus in Berlin 2017. Currently, GISMA offers degree programmes in a franchise mode with Porto Business School (Hannover), Grenoble Ecole de Management (Berlin) and the University of Law (Berlin). In 2018, Arden University opened a study centre on the GISMA campus in Berlin, offering a select number of MSc degrees. "

This is all I would like to have added at this time. I feel this addition is fair and non-promotional as it ends a rounded-introduction to the school. If editors should have any issues with this, please know I hope to understand so as to improve the quality of the page and to help it develop - so all feedback is really appreciated!

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 13:03, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

References

• I have added a brief sentence to the lead concerning the programmes they currently offer. The rest of the material is already adequately summarised in the "Programmes" section. The material about Arden opening a new study centre there is trivial and suitable for a prospectus, not an encyclopedia article. "Franchise mode" is obfuscating. The degrees are taught and awarded by external institutions. Note also that to say that Global University Systems is "the holding company supporting GISMA Business School" is equally obfuscating. GUS owns GISMA. Voceditenore (talk) 16:29, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Hello Voceditenore. Thank you for your feedback and actions. I also appreciate your point regarding "The holding company" and will change this on my TALK page. Thanks again! MrAttempt (talk) 10:31, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Insufficiently paraphrased text 10-MAY-2018

Text which was found to be insufficiently paraphrased from the source material has been removed from the article. A listing of this text may be found here. (See also WP:CLOSEPARAPHRASE.) The StudyQA website where the text was located states the following:

The Site and its original content, features and functionality are owned by StudyQA and are protected by international copyright, trademark, patent, trade secret and other intellectual property or proprietary rights laws. All materials published on the Site are protected by copyright laws, and may not be reproduced, republished, distributed, transmitted, resold, displayed, broadcast, or otherwise exploited in any manner without the express written permission of either StudyQA or, in the case of content licensed by StudyQA from third parties, the entity that is credited as the copyright holder of such licensed content.

It is unknown whether the information displayed by StudyQA was obtained from Wikipedia using the so called "third party" process provision described in their terms of use and shown above in italics. StudyQA itself has made that determination difficult, as it does not outwardly state anywhere on the site that this was the case. In any event, in lieu of evidence to the contrary, I have erred on the side of caution and removed the text.

.spintendo⋅⋅) 16:53, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

References

• Thanks, Spintendo, an interesting catch. The "History" section was added by me in January 2017 in response to an edit request from an employee of Global University Systems, User:BrandDude, who provided the text. (See the collapsed material in Edit Request - History above for the text.) I added a slightly trimmed copyedited version. It's hard to tell whether the Global University Systems employee had taken most of his "suggested text" from the StudyQA website or had provided it here first and then to StudyQA (minus the financial difficulties part). The Wayback Machine is no help. The StudyQA page isn't archved. Either way, I'm very happy with the removal given its source and the doubtfulness of its original provenance. Voceditenore (talk) 18:01, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Hi all - MrAttempt here with question. Remembering my COI (I am an employee of Global University Systems - the company that owns GISMA), I would like to see this history section fulfilled. I understand completely the issue of Copyright being a factor and it being removed. I propose a re-writing of the text, carefully avoiding any copyright issues and ensuring a complete picture of GISMA's history is captured for those individuals looking to learn all there is as they visit the page. I can write this - looking to ensure the text is fact-centered and complete - whilst also ready for help from all admins. What are the thoughts on notion? I am eager to avoid treading on anyone's toes and upsetting hard work done by admins.

Thank again for helping with improving the page; MrAttempt (talk) 15:16, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

I have rewritten the history section now. Here are the new copyvio checks for studyqa.com and a full internet search (pinging Spintendo). MrAttempt, the above mess which necessitated the rewrite amply illustrates why COI/paid editors should not have any significant input to WP article text. Voceditenore (talk) 15:33, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Hi Voceditenore. This is tremendous - thank you for the considerable corrections. I'll hope to continue working with you and other Wiki admins in this capacity - with your view as the final say-so. However, now it is Friday afternoon and I wish you both a happy weekend. With sincere thanks, MrAttempt (talk) 15:53, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Programmes section - information

Hello all Page Watchers!

I would like to make an Edit Request in regard to the Programmes section of the page. First though - my Conflict of Interest: I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns GISMA Business School. I would like to extend a hand to the Wikipedia community in an effort to help improve this page and ensure that relevant and correct (sourced) information is present. My Conflict of Interest is that I am an employee of GUS - I seek to be fully compliant with the COI policies and hope to work with all for the improvement of the page. Following making my edit suggestions - I shall declare my COI on the WP:COIN page.

I am requesting the addition of the following details to the Programmes section - listing the names of the degrees available via GISMA and their awarding bodies - so as to provide complete information to the page's visitor on this section. Whilst complete, this information is also brief and non-promotional.

Proposed Edit

Degree programmes : 1. MBA programmes: a. Grenoble MBA – awarded by Grenoble Ecole de Management b. Magellan MBA (Hannover) – awarded by Porto Business School 2. Postgraduate degrees a. Grenoble MIB (Berlin) – awarded by Grenoble Ecole de Management b. Grenoble MSc Innovation, Strategy, and Entrepreneurship(Berlin) – awarded by Grenoble Ecole de Management c. Grenoble MSc Marketing Management – awarded by Grenoble Ecole de Management d. MSc in Strategic Business Management – awarded by The University of Law e. MSc Leadership and Human Resource Management – awarded by The University of Law f. MSc Corporate Financial Management – awarded by The University of Law g. MSc International Marketing – awarded by The University of Law h. MSc Project Management – awarded by Arden University i. MSc Engineering Management – awarded by Arden University j. MSc Enterprise Architecture Management – awarded by Arden University k. MSc Data Analytics and Marketing – awarded by Arden University l. MA Strategic Marketing – awarded by Arden University m. MSc IT Security Management – awarded by Arden University n. MSc Telecommunications Management – awarded by Arden University o. MSc Strategic IT Management – awarded by Arden University References

This is all for now. All feedback is appreciated, as are your time and efforts.

MrAttempt (talk) 13:31, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Reply 15-MAY-2018

The listing of individual degrees offered by the subject school is best left to the subject school's website. This level of detail would not be suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia. Articles should not become a complete exposition of all possible details, but rather, a summary of accepted knowledge regarding their subjects. Additionally, you have given the school itself as a reference for this information. The school being a source for its own information is appropriate only so long as the information is not overtly promotional. As one of the main sources of income for the school is the offering of educational diplomas, the description of what diplomas are offered to students would count as being promotional. A mention that the school offers Masters in Science and Master's in Business would suffice. Otherwise, in order for the information to be added, sources from outside of the school should be provided. Please advise. .spintendo⋅⋅) 17:35, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

References

Hello Spintendo. Thank you for you advice! I will revise the details so as to summarize more briefly and return to this having done so. Thanks again! MrAttempt (talk) 08:31, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

I am in complete agreement with Spintendo on this issue. This especially applies to schools like GISMA which do not confer any of the degrees on offer, but rather facilitate study for degrees from external institutions. Incidentally, almost all of GISMA's externally awarded degrees cost more than they do at the awarding institutions. For example, Grenoble School of Management's Master in International Business (MIB) costs €22,000 at GISMA but €20,350 at Grenoble's main and Paris campuses. MrAttempt, please do not attempt a briefer version of what you had proposed. It will not be implemented and will simply waste everyone's time. What is currently in the "Programs" section is more than adequate and constitutes best practice for university articles. Take a look at Harvard Business School. There is no listing of all its multitude of individual programs, and it is a far more illustrious business school than GISMA. Voceditenore (talk) 10:32, 16 May 2018 (UTC) Updated by Voceditenore (talk) 12:07, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Wonderful stuff. I can now provide a source to the above information as was suggested necessary. The proof of all these programmes can be found via Thank you for your insight and suggestion Voceditenore! The College and University Article Advice page was extremely useful - thank you. It has illuminated me as to the relevance of 'noteworthy' information.

If I may, I have found this page European School of Management and Technology - a similar for-profit institution based in Germany. As you'll see - this page is greatly developed with information; particularly in the Programmes section. Would the GISMA page not be due similar detail so as to ensure a complete representation of noteworthy information to the reader? I am confused as to the contrast between these two similar schools' pages. I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Ultimately, I appreciate your efforts and continued enthusiasm in improving and the page. With thanks -MrAttempt (talk) 13:45, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

References

• MrAttempt, a. The European School of Management and Technology is non-profit business school. b. Regardless of that, it was a poorly written article produced by several COI/paid editors, one of which is indefinitely blocked for sockpuppetry. c. The goal is not to imitate the worse articles on Wikipedia. d. Therefore, suggesting that GISMA is "due" an equally poor, inappropriate article is nonsense. Furthermore, your "reference" to mastersportal.com is not independent. It is a simple directory with all the entries provided by the institutions listed there. Incidentally, I have now drastically truncated European School of Management and Technology. Voceditenore (talk) 15:24, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Voceditenore - thank you for your continued enthusiasm. I had no idea it was written by a COI editor - thank you for pointing this out to me. Also - you're right. It wouldn't be right for GISMA to engage in COI editing, hence the continuation of Request Edits shall be the sole manner in which the page shall be engaged. As you stated, "the goal is not to imitate the worse articles"; and I look forward to working with all editors to help improve this page with correct, non-promotional and noteworthy information. Thank you again Voceditenore - MrAttempt (talk) 16:18, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Even without looking at the edit history of European School of Management and Technology, any neutral observer could instantly see that it was written by COI editors. When articles read like that one did, they seriously detract from the subject's image rather than enhance it, although COI editors usually don't see that or care. Voceditenore (talk) 16:28, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Photo information

Hello everyone and Page Watchers.

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns GISMA. I would like to extend a hand to the Wikipedia community in an effort to help improve this page and ensure that relevant, noteworthy and correct (sourced) information is present. My Conflict of Interest is that I am an employee of GUS - I seek to be fully compliant with the COI policies and hope to work with all editors for the improvement of the page. Following making my edit suggestions - I shall declare my COI on the WP:COIN page.

The edit I am requesting is to the image of the GISMA Hannover campus. I request that the text: "Goethestraße 18, the site of GISMA's Hannover campus" be changed to "Goethestraße 18, GISMA's Hannover campus and main administrative headquarters".

I am asking for this change as it updates the page to feature the correct and non-promotional information.

I can source this to be true back to GISMA's Contact Page -

As always, feedback is appreciated and I thank you for your time.

With thanks MrAttempt (talk) 13:59, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

References

• Done. Voceditenore (talk) 14:09, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Thank you Voceditenore. MrAttempt (talk) 14:41, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Berlin Campus Opening Source

Hello everyone and Page Watchers.

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns GISMA. I would like to extend a hand to the Wikipedia community in an effort to help improve this page and ensure that relevant, noteworthy and correct (sourced) information is present. My Conflict of Interest is that I am an employee of GUS - I seek to be fully compliant with the COI policies and hope to work with all editors for the improvement of the page. Following making my edit suggestions - I shall declare my COI on the WP:COIN page.

The edit I am requesting is the addition of a source to the 'Acquisition by Global University Systems' section's sentence: "A second campus was opened in Berlin in 2017."

The source I wish to be added is from the GISMA website -

I am asking for this change as it updates the page with sourced, non-promotional information.

As always, feedback is appreciated and I thank you for your time.

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 12:37, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

References

• I have added a reference from an independent source, Le Monde, instead. I did not use the GISMA press release linked above which is pure advertising. This edit request was simply an attempt to get that advertising linked from Wikipedia. Please do not make requests like this again. Voceditenore (talk) 17:15, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Good morning Voceditenore,

Thank you for your continued dedication to the page and help! I'm glad an independent source was found - I would prefer to update using only independent/external sources yet have struggled to locate, particularly with instances such as programme content, etc. I appreciate your point regarding using content from the GISMA website. I can assure you I'm not trying to get free advertising - your continued reminders as to non-promotional content would be hard to ignore. Were I to attempt to utilise Wikipedia for free advertising; my expectation of your constant vigilance would make this futile - not mention my respect for Wikipedia as a neutral source of encyclopedic information.

I will continue to seek to have the page developed and improved via Edit Requests - and will strive to only reference independent/external sources.

Good faith to you.

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 08:23, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

A brief summary of program content as is currently and properly in this article can be (and is) sourced to the institution's programmes web page. If there is anything noteworthy about specific aspects or details of the programmes, these can be listed only if they have been discussed in-depth in reliable published sources that are entirely independent of the institution. That is the basic definition of noteworthy as used on Wikipedia. For future reference, this applies to all other aspects of the article. We do not include routine announcements sourced solely to the subject's website or to press releases or to publications based on such press-releases. Voceditenore (talk) 09:37, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Addition of Head of Berlin Campus

Hello everyone and Page Watchers.

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns GISMA. I would like to extend a hand to the Wikipedia community in an effort to help improve this page and ensure that relevant, noteworthy and correct (sourced) information is present. My Conflict of Interest is that I am an employee of GUS - I seek to be fully compliant with the COI policies and hope to work with all editors for the improvement of the page. Following making my edit suggestions - I shall declare my COI on the WP:COIN page.

The edit I am requesting is the addition of the Head of the Berlin Campus. Unfortunately this only has links back to the GISMA site but it is the faculty page which holds no promotional material: https://www.gisma.com/the-school/our-team/dr-elisabeth-grindel-denby

I am asking that this be added to the top right-hand info-box, between "Managing Director" and "Location".

I would appreciate it being phrased as: "Head of Berlin Campus: Dr Elisabeth Grindel-Denby"

I am asking for this change as it updates the page with sourced, non-promotional information, relevant to those searching the page and its current history.

As always, feedback is appreciated and I thank you for your time.

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 13:55, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Not done. The infobox is only for listing key personnel, e.g. CEO, President, Provost, not the directors of individual campuses. Voceditenore (talk) 15:00, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi Voceditenore - thank you for your insight. In this case I feel the pre-proposed edit could take place following (or adding to) the final sentence of the "Acquisition by Global University Systems" section. Could the edit be: "A second campus was opened in Berlin in 2017. The Head of the Berlin Campus is Dr Elisabeth Grindel-Denby." Would this be doable? With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 15:52, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

No. That kind of detail about lower-level staff belongs on the GISMA website, not in an encyclopedia article. The only exception would be if Elisabeth Grindel-Denby were a notable academic. She is not. Voceditenore (talk) 16:48, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi Voceditenore - That's a shame, I was hoping to provide some important info in an encyclopedic attitude. However, I still thank you for your help and time. MrAttempt (talk) 11:19, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

@Voceditenore: Hi there. What would be the consensus on including the Rector of the school (in this case - 'Acting Rector') - notable academic Professor Maurits van Rooijen -  ? This can be sourced to the Global University Systems website: — Preceding unsigned comment added by MrAttempt (talk • contribs) 09:31, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

References

Notable Alumna - Abigail Spanberger

Hello everyone

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns GISMA. I would like to extend a hand to the Wikipedia community in an effort to help improve this page and ensure that relevant, noteworthy and correct (sourced) information is present. My Conflict of Interest is that I am an employee of GUS - I seek to be fully compliant with the COI policies and hope to work with all editors for the improvement of the page. Following making my edit suggestions - I shall declare my COI on the WP:COIN page.

The edit I am requesting is the addition of the notable alumna - Abigail Spanberger.

This could be in a 'Notable Alumni' section but I feel there is not enough information to merit an entirely new section, therefore: I think this would best suit the introduction as it is a single sentence.

The sentence I am asking to be added is: "Whilst living in Germany, Abigail Spanberger, former CIA Operations Officer and current Democratic nominee of Congress for the state of Virginia, graduated with an MBA dual-degree between GISMA Business School and Purdue University."

The source of this information can be found here: https://abigailspanberger.com/about-abigail/ ... and here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/irony-and-glamour-in-virginias-redrawn-7th-district/2018/05/18/bd68de26-5860-11e8-858f-12becb4d6067_story.html?utm_term=.ca22d7631e9a

I am requesting this edit as it updates the page with correct, non-promotional information from an external/independent source. This is a notable alumna and this is a notable edit for the page.

All help and advice is appreciated.

With thanks MrAttempt (talk) 12:22, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Notable alumni are presented in list form in a separate section, or sometimes in paragraph summary form with a link to a separate list article, if the number of alumni is large. The section is for people who already have articles on Wikipedia. Abigail Spanberger does not have an article. It is merely a redirect to United States House of Representatives elections in Virginia, 2018#District 7. If she wins in the General election, she will have her own article and it would be then be appropriate to add it to the list. Under no circumstances does what you are proposing belong in the lead. Perhaps Ronz can give a second opinion on this. Voceditenore (talk) 14:47, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with any general consensus on including lists of alumni to articles about schools. In this case her self-published website and an opinion article in the Washington Post don't seem enough to deserve mention, even without considering the promotional interests of both the school and Spanberger. --Ronz (talk) 15:29, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Ronz, per the WikiProject Universities article guidelines, "Noted people" sections are fairly standard in university and college articles: "This section should give a sense of the extent to which persons with well-known deeds or highly significant accomplishments are or have been associated with the school (as by attendance there or by being on staff or faculty).". However, as of yet that is not a description of Ms. Spanberger. Voceditenore (talk) 16:25, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi Ronz and Voceditenore. Thank you both for you input. So is the consensus that this is currently declined and in the event of Abigail's successful election to congress; this would be up for consideration again? With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 15:34, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

If she is elected to Congress, she will have an article. In that case it would be added to the GISMA article. It is possible that she might achieve enough notability for an article to be written about her regardless. Either way, if she has an article and there is an independent source for her having attended GISMA such as the Washington Post article, then it would be added. Voceditenore (talk) 15:59, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

• Update As someone has now created an article for Abigail Spanberger, I have added it to a new section "Notable faculty and alumni". The section also contains two notable academics who were past faculty members. The descriptions make it clear that all three either taught at or attended GISMA when the program was delivered by Krannert School of Management. Whether or not the Spanberger article survives is questionable. It is currently at AfD. Voceditenore (talk) 08:38, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Notable Faculty - Acting Rector Professor Maurits van Rooijen

Hello everyone

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns GISMA. I would like to extend a hand to the Wikipedia community in an effort to help improve this page and ensure that relevant, noteworthy and correct (sourced) information is present. My Conflict of Interest is that I am an employee of GUS - I seek to be fully compliant with the COI policies and hope to work with all editors for the improvement of the page. Following making my edit suggestions - I shall declare my COI on the WP:COIN page.

This edit is to mention the GISMA Rector (and notable academic) - Professor Maurits van Rooijen. Professor Maurits is notable as an academic, with a long and prestigious career - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurits_van_Rooijen

I feel the addition of this fact is non-promotional, relevant to the page and can be sourced here: https://www.gisma.com/news/gisma-rector-s-evening . If this source is deemed too promotional; please let me know and I'll search for another.

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 10:17, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

• Not done. Maurits van Rooijen is not a faculty member at GISMA and is listed nowhere on their site in that position. He is the "Chief Academic Officer" for Global University Systems (GISMA's owner). The GUS website calls him the "Acting Rector" of GISMA, an utterly pretentious and meaningless title for an institution all of whose degrees are delivered and awarded by other universities and which has only three full-time permanent faculty members. Please see also my reply on this same subject to your colleague User:BrandDude above. Voceditenore (talk) 12:14, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Hi Voceditenore. Thank you for time. We are in the process of having this changed now so that it is listed on the GISMA website. In the event of this happening - may I assume that the edit request will be accepted? Many thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 14:04, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

What are you in the process of "having changed"? Is the GISMA website going to say that he is a faculty member and name the courses he teaches? Or is it going to say he is a "Rector" of some sort? If it's the latter, I refer you to my previous comments re GUS's misleading use of this title. Voceditenore (talk) 14:48, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

I have since added the appointments of Thorsten Thiel as managing director, Maurits van Rooijen as acting rector, and Ivo Matser as president to the section "Acquisition by Global University Systems". Van Rooijen is worth a mention, but does not belong in a "Notable faculty" section. Voceditenore (talk) 08:18, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Undergraduate degrees

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns GISMA; my Conflict of Interest (all my COI's can be found on my TALK page).

I am requesting that (along the lines of) the following sentence be added to the programmes section:

"The school also hosts Undergraduate business, finance, and healthcare management degrees, delivered by Arden University"

This can be sourced to the GISMA programmes page: https://www.gisma.com/programmes/undergraduate-degrees

Can the fact of hosting Undergraduate degrees also be included in the introduction?

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 11:07, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Reply 24-DEC-2018

  Clarification needed  

• The term undergraduate degree has a very specific meaning in the US.
• It's not entirely clear from the references provided whether or not these courses offer all the elemental classes required to obtain the undergraduate degree mentioned in this case, a baccalaureate. Our mentioning of this could be interpreted as describing services which the university may or may not actually offer, which in some circumstances may violate federal law prohibiting deceptive commercial advertising.
• In order to verify that these undergraduate degrees are equivalent to ones offered through the US Course Credit System, kindly provide secondary sources which substantiate calling these "undergraduate degrees".
• When ready to proceed with the requested information, kindly alter the request edit template's answer parameter to read from |ans=yes to |ans=no. Thank you.

Regards,  Spintendo  12:00, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Spintendo, I've gone ahead and changed one existing sentence to add the bolded material: "In addition to language courses and executive education short courses in Berlin and Hannover, GISMA offers a variety of undergraduate and master's degree programs in management and business studies, including MBAs." That is more than sufficient. Details about the subject matter for individual degrees and who validates what belongs in the prospectus not an encyclopedia article. The undergraduate degrees, all BA (Hons), are delivered and awarded by Arden University which has degree-awarding university status in the UK. See: Quality Assurance Agency for Higher Education (November 2017). "Higher Education Review (Alternative Providers) of Arden University Ltd.. The Programs section of the WP article also makes clear that all degree programs at GISMA are externally delivered and awarded and lists the universities providing the degrees. GISMA has no degree-awarding powers of its own in Germany or anywhere else. Voceditenore (talk) 13:11, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Kingston University partnership

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns GISMA; my Conflict of Interest (all my COI's can be found on my TALK page).

I am requesting that Kingston University be added to the 'Programs' section as a provider of degrees (in this case, the MSc International Business Management).

This can be sourced here: https://www.gisma.com/programmes/masters-degrees/business-programmes/msc-international-business-management

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 15:56, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

• Language courses

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns GISMA; my Conflict of Interest (all my COI's can be found on my TALK page).

I am requesting for the first line of the 'Programs' section to be updated to include the fact that the language courses are delivered by GISMA's partner school - The Language Gallery.

This can be sourced here: https://www.gisma.com/programmes/language-programmes/german-language

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 16:09, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Reply 02-JAN-2019

The Programs section of the WP article also makes clear that all degree programs at GISMA are externally delivered and awarded and lists the universities providing the degrees. GISMA has no degree-awarding powers of its own in Germany or anywhere else.
— User:Voceditenore 03:52, 25 December 2018

It's my understanding that if the information that "GISMA offers a variety of undergraduate and master's degree programs" has now been placed in the article, and "The Programs section of the WP article also makes clear that all degree programs at GISMA are externally delivered and awarded" is also already in the article, then the additional information found within the current edit request need not be added, as the aforementioned sentences already cover these proposed claims. But I'll defer to Voceditenore on this.  Spintendo  23:52, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

• GISMA London

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns GISMA; my Conflict of Interest (all my COI's can be found on my TALK page).

I am requesting that the GISMA London site be included in the relevant sentences of the introduction and the 'Acquisition by Globa University Systems' sections.

This can be sourced here: https://www.gisma.com/locations/london-centre

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 16:31, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Reply 02-JAN-2018

The COI editor has not proposed how and in what way London is to be "included" in the relevant sentences. Please provide a verbatim proposal.  Spintendo  23:52, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Reply 3 January 2019

This covers my responses to multiple requests in this section. I have added Kingston as one of the validating university programs. None of the other requests should be implemented - routine promotional/trivial material that belongs in a prospectus not here. As per my multiple previous comments here about the way GUS misleadingly presents their institutions, the "London Centre" is particularly misleading and even the GISMA site is vague about it. I am also aware that GISMA is recruiting for their February intake, which is undoubtedly behind this plethora of time-wasting requests. Voceditenore (talk) 08:33, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

@Voceditenore: Thank you for your efforts here. We have made these requests so as to better inform the page and the reader, with great appreciation for the Wikipedia guidelines regarding COI editing and your contribution of time and insight.

In addition to this, the page is written in US-English (program). Appreciating that this is an English-language version of a German school; what do you think should be the form of English for this page? UK-English or continue as US-English? The GISMA website uses UK English, as shown here: https://www.gisma.com/programmes

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 09:50, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

I have now changed "program" to "programme" throughout the article given that it is the spelling used by GISMA. Voceditenore (talk) 11:29, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Pinging - @Voceditenore: A further update on this, the London campus has now been included in a story by Study Travel Magazine. Would it be possible to include the following?

"In April 2019, the school expanded to include a center at The University of Law in London".

I'd appreciate your insight . With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 10:54, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

References

• I have added the sentence "In 2019, GISMA opened a UK centre at the University of Law's Bloomsbury campus where it delivers executive education and business short courses." to the end of the Acquisition by Global University Systems section. Given the nature of what is delivered (short courses only) and the fact that is located at the University of Law, not its in own building, it doesn't merit inclusion in the lead. I have used the reference you have provided, albeit properly formatted as:

Knott, Matthew (1 May 2019). "GISMA Business School expands to UK". ST Magazine. Retrieved 9 May 2019.

Voceditenore (talk) 11:38, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Berlin campus location - clarification needed

Pinging MrAttempt. The GISMA website now lists the GISMA Berlin campus/Arden University Berlin study centre address as Dessauer Straße 3-5 [2]. That building is also the Berlin campus of yet another GUS-owned institution, University of Applied Sciences Europe. This is an image of the Dessauer Straße building. Last year, the Berlin campus address given by GISMA was Potsdamer Straße 180-182 [3]. This is an image of the Potsdamer Straße building. However, most confusingly, both GISMA and Arden continue to illustrate their pages on the Berlin campus with a picture of the Potsdamer Straße building rather than the Dessauer Straße building [4] [5]. Furthermore, the current GISMA page continues to describe the campus's location in terms of the Potsdammer Straße location, i.e. in the Schöneberg district of Berlin despite giving the address as Dessauer Straße 3–5. Dessauer Straße is not in that district. I have removed the image of the Potsdamer Straße building which had been labelled as GISMA's Berlin Campus from the article pending clarification. Voceditenore (talk) 13:13, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for pinging me on this @Voceditenore:. I have made inquiries and this is being seen to now. I will update you here as soon as corrections have been made. With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 14:31, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

I see that GISMA has now changed their Berlin campus page to remove the image of the Potsdamer Straße building and amended the erroneous text about it being located in the Schöneberg district, confirming my decision to remove the image from the article. Arden University has not changed the image their page yet, but that doesn't impact this article. Frankly, Global University Systems could more profitably spend their marketing efforts on updating the websites of the various institutions they own rather than on continuous efforts to tweak their Wikipedia articles. Several of their subsidiaries' websites are inaccurate or out of date and sometimes display patently false information, making them of limited value for referencing claims on Wikipedia. For example, the "Partners" page of London School of Business and Finance lists both Concordia University Chicago and Leoron as "Other Global University Systems (GUS) brands" mixed in with other companies which GUS actually owns. Neither Concordia nor Leoron are owned by GUS and cannot remotely be described as "brands" of that company. And what is the story of another recently launched GUS business, Berlin School of Business and Innovation? It appears to still have the same address on Potsdamer Straße that GISMA used to have [6]. Voceditenore (talk) 15:29, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Good afternoon @Voceditenore: Thank you for bringing this to my attention. We're looking into the situation of the Arden and BSBI website pages and will return to you as soon as possible. MrAttempt (talk) 16:42, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

Now that my decision to remove the image of the Potsdamer Straße building from the article has been confirmed, what GUS does with their various websites is their business not Wikipedia's. I was simply making the observation that those websites are of limited value for referencing claims, and will remain so. I doubt that BSBI will ever merit its own article. I have simply listed it (with a reference) in the Global University Systems article in the list of its subsidiaries. Thus, BSBI's exact address in Berlin is immaterial from Wikipedia's point of view. I was just curious. The video on GISMA's Berlin campus page still shows the Potsdamer Straße interior and facilities which appear exactly the same as those on the BSBI website. Voceditenore (talk) 18:06, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

Hamburg campus

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns GISMA; my Conflict of Interest (all my COI's can be found on my TALK page).

GISMA also has a new center in Hamburg, referenced to its own website:

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 14:05, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

References

The use of the word new in an article's claims is deprecated, per MOS:RELTIME.  Spintendo  14:24, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Notes

References

Hi @Spintendo: - apologies, I've posted this before I have finished writing it. I will see to this asap. MrAttempt (talk) 15:14, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

• We should not add this proliferation of "centers" without further clarification. The GISMA site is very vague on the "Hamburg Center" and doesn't even give an address. I strongly suspect it merely camps at another GUS-owned institution University of Applied Sciences Europe. There is no indication of what GISMA programmes are taught there either. Voceditenore (talk) 16:28, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

See also my comments about a similar situation at Talk:Arden University#Delivering programmes with GISMA Business School. Voceditenore (talk) 16:33, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Update of 'Programmes' section

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns GISMA; my Conflict of Interest (all my COI's can be found on my TALK page).

I am requesting a removal of the final sentence of the 'Programmes' section. The information contained within is no longer correct. Please see the school's 'Programmes' page which verifies this - no other schools are listed as delivering courses for GISMA.

References

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 11:15, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

• Done. Voceditenore (talk) 17:29, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Accreditation of programmes

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns GISMA; my Conflict of Interest (all my COI's can be found on my TALK page).

I am requesting an update to the page with an addition to the 'Programmes' section. GISMA's Fernstudiengang "AgriBusiness" (M.Sc.), Master of Business Administration (MBA), and Leadership for Digital Transformation (M.Sc.) are each accredited by FIBBA Please use the "Lower Saxony" tab to confirm this - I am unsure of how to include this is in the reference.

If deemed relevant, can the inclusion please be along the lines of:

" GISMA's Fernstudiengang "AgriBusiness" (M.Sc.), Master of Business Administration (MBA), and Leadership for Digital Transformation (M.Sc.) are each accredited by FIBBA "

References

I am requesting this edit as it is a relevant fact of GISMA as FIBBA is an internationally recognised accreditation body.

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 09:08, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

• Done, added to end of the Programmes section with AMBA moved there as well. I've worded it as "GISMA is accredited by the AMBA. Its Executive MBA programme and the MSc programmes in Leadership for Digital Transformation and in Agribusiness are also accredited by the FIBAA." As you can see, I've used more specific refs for the FIBBA accreditation than the generic ones you provided. Voceditenore (talk) 11:28, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Bankruptcy and Porto programmes

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns GISMA; my Conflict of Interest (all my COI's can be found on my TALK page).

I have two requests.

Firstly, please can "Porto Business School" please be removed from the 'Programmes' section as this is no longer correct (please see the GISMA Programmes page to confirm this, you will see Porto is not present: https://www.gisma.com/programme/)

Secondly, I feel to include GISMA's bankruptcy in the introduction is unnecessary as this is covered in sufficient detail in the article's main body (it has its own detailed section), not to mention that this happened 6 years ago. Can the third sentence please be re-written as:

"Amid financial difficulties, GISMA was purchased by the for-profit education company Global University Systems in September 2013."

It would be great to know Editors' thoughts on this.

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 13:22, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

I have removed the Porto program. I have left the lead as it is. The lead is a summary of the contents and is expected to repeat the most salient points. Please read Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section. The bankruptcy of GISMA is the sole aspect of the institution that achieved multiple international headlines and coverage. GISMA had filed for bankruptcy over two months before GUS bought it. It was not simply "amid financial difficulties". This is simply an attempt to massage its image. Voceditenore (talk) 15:02, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the edit and feedback @Voceditenore:

Managing Director

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns GISMA; my Conflict of Interest (all my COI's can be found on my TALK page).

Dr. Thorsten Thiel is no longer Managing Director at GISMA Business School. You will see from looking through the school's 'Staff page' (Leadership) and noting that he is no longer listed: https://www.gisma.com/school/about-us/faculty-and-team?subject=Leadership

Can Dr. Thorsten Thiel please be removed as MD from the info-box?

All advice and efforts by Editors are appreciated.

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 07:42, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Reply 19-AUG-2019

  Edit request implemented  

1. The managing director was omitted from the infobox.
2. This former managing director also happened to be mentioned in the prose, which described his position as one being held in the present tense. Although Wikipedia prefers in these cases changing the tense to refer to the individual and their positions as having been held in the past tense — rather than deleting it altogether — in this case the claim itself was unreferenced and the COI editor did not suggest an end date of service in that position to be appended to their description in the article. Thus the claim itself was omitted entirely.

Regards,  Spintendo  00:40, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

Notes

Hamburg campus

I am employed by Global University Systems (GUS) - the company that owns GISMA; my Conflict of Interest (all my COI's can be found on my TALK page).

I am requesting the inclusion of the school's Hamburg campus to the article.

Can this please be added to the introduction's sentence:

"GISMA Business School is a privately-owned business school in Germany with sites in Berlin, Hamburg and Hannover."

Can this also please be added to the info-box too?

The current campuses do not have references, but I have provided the following link to the school's Hamburg info page.

For a more simple reference, I've included the address of the campus from the school's contact page.

With thanks - MrAttempt (talk) 11:39, 6 December 2019 (UTC)