Talk:Mount Ararat

Overemphasis on Armenia

Ok now I understand why Wikipedia is banned in Turkey. The article seems to have lost its neutrality and focus only on one thing; that the Mount Ararat actually belongs to Armenia!? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.38.157.211 (talk) 22:53, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

@Yerevantsi: It may be worded a bit strongly, and I've changed the section heading, but it's not simply a forum post. Armenia is mentioned 279 times, including references, and Turkey 91. Even the fact that it's a Turkish national park isn't in the article. So let's leave the IP's comment here, please. Doug Weller talk 20:16, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

There is a simple reason why Armenia is mentioned 3 times more: it has far more significance to Armenia and Armenians than it does to Turkey and Turks. In fact, it may be a synonym for Armenia in many contexts. There is a reason why there are books about Armenia and Armenians which include Ararat in their title, but none that includes Turkey.

Well, I was the one who added the template about its designation as a national park in Turkey in 2004. I have not had the time to research more into it and do not know of an appropriate section to add that information. ----Երևանցի ^talk 20:39, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

The remark by the IP: The marks of Armenian lobby on Wikipedia is disgusting. is not only FORUM, it is offensive and should be removed. Dr. K. 21:18, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

I’ve removed it. Doug Weller talk 21:33, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you Doug. Dr. K. 21:51, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

This article has been nominated for Good Article status. I'm now in the process of reviewing it. One of the criteria for GA status is that the article is "stable" and maintains neutrality. It appears to me that whatever problem there might have been regarding bias favoring Armenia has been resolved, at least on this talk page. Please advise if any editor perceives neutrality to be a significant issue. Thanks.--Jburlinson (talk) 23:20, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Location

It appears the border of two provinces (İlleri), Iğdır and Ağrı, go right through the summit/peak of the mountain, is this correct? Furthermore, It looks like the south slope lies within Doğubayazıt district (ilçe) in Ağrı, but what district covers the north slope of the mountain in Iğdır? Would it perhaps be worth a mention in this article of the exact location, or even just simply that it sits on the border of these two provinces within Turkey? Seems to be that this would at least be worth a mention in the first section "Political borders," since that seems a perfect fit for this kind of information. --Criticalthinker (talk) 12:00, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Mount Ararat/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jburlinson (talk · contribs) 23:14, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

I'll be glad to review this article for GA status. I'm sorry it's taken so long. I will probably make some minimal changes during the course of the review -- punctuation, spelling, typos, grammar, minor wording, etc. I hope that's OK. If any of these changes are problematic for you, feel free to revert or revise. With luck, I should be finished within 7 days. Thanks to all who have contributed to this article.--Jburlinson (talk) 23:14, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

I've had a bit of a health issue which has set me back a couple of days. Sorry for the delay. Surely by end of week.--Jburlinson (talk) 02:24, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

@Jburlinson: are you going to review the article? ----Երևանցի ^talk 19:16, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

@Jburlinson: and @Yerevantsi: It seems that this review is stale and the reviewer has not committed fully. It has been 2 months. Yerevantsi, do you want me to fail this or have myself take up the review? AmericanAir88 (talk) 20:00, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

@AmericanAir88: I would greatly welcome you to review the article. ----Երևանցի ^talk 10:31, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

@Yerevantsi: Will do. Sorry for the delay you had to experience AmericanAir88 (talk) 13:37, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

New Review

@Yerevantsi:

References and Violations

• Dead links: Refs 29, 43, 78, 178 are dead.

 Fixed----Երևանցի ^talk 19:30, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

• Dead Notes: Note "j"'s 4 links are all dead.

 Fixed I've replaced the dead links with archived ones.----Երևանցի ^talk 19:30, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

• Copyvios: The 5th bullet in note "c" is completely copy and pasted. (I know its a quote, but the source provided by the note is not the same as the one copy and pasted)
  • From the 4th paragraph of the source, first four lines were copy and pasted.--Cheetah (talk) 07:17, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Weasel Words

See WP:Weasel Words

• "Despite the scholarly consensus" Who made the consensus?

Well all scholars who have written on the topic agree with it.----Երևանցի ^talk 16:17, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

• "it has been widely accepted " according to whom?

According to the sources cited in the article. ----Երևանցի ^talk 16:17, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

• "has been considered" Considered by whom?

It literally says "considered a sacred mountain by Armenians"----Երևանցի ^talk 16:17, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

• "Armenian historians" who?
  • Changed to "most Armenian historians" for more info, a reader can look up in the references.--Cheetah (talk) 07:17, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
• "given by some encyclopedias and reference works." Which ones?

Named some of the notable ones.

• "Historical records and oral history" who?

Reworded.----Երևանցի ^talk 16:17, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

• " Most historians and Bible scholars agree" who?
  • Listed in note "c".--Cheetah (talk) 07:17, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
• "are considered by scholars" Which scholars?
  • Listed in the refs provided, plus there is a citation following that sentence.--Cheetah (talk) 07:17, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

General

• The second half of the first paragraph in the lead is confusing. Elaborate more and maybe add more sentences to improve clarity.
  • Check again please.--Cheetah (talk) 07:17, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
• In the lead, could you put more info on the Middle Ages first ascent attempts
  • It was added.--Cheetah (talk) 07:17, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
• "From the 16th century until 1828 Great Ararat's summit and the northern slopes, along with the eastern slopes of Little Ararat were part of Persia, while the range was part of the Ottoman-Persian border." Confusing sentence

 Fixed----Երևանցի ^talk 08:17, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

• "The mountain is known as Ararat in European languages,[21][22] however, none of the native peoples have traditionally referred to the mountain by that name." Why have they not referred to it by that name?

Because each has a native name for it.----Երևանցի ^talk 08:17, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

• "Since at least about 1957, it has been shrinking." Rework the sentence and maybe expand

 Fixed----Երևանցի ^talk 19:51, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

• Do a sweep on "Geological History" for grammar. It doesn't seem to be correct in some areas.
  • Examples please--Cheetah (talk) 08:33, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
• "The chronology of Holocene volcanic activity associated with Mount Ararat is poorly documented." Why?
  • Reworded--Cheetah (talk) 08:33, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
• The "non-armenian" section needs a ton of work. Its layout is confusing.
  • The layout is fine now.--Cheetah (talk) 08:33, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
• Avoid small sentences, they make the prose choppy
• "Places named" needs more references.

 Doing...----Երևանցի ^talk 19:51, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

• • Unreferenced stuff is taken out.--Cheetah (talk) 08:33, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

AmericanAir88 (talk) 15:58, 9 August 2018 (UTC) @Yerevantsi: Issues are posted and should be addressed. On-hold for now. AmericanAir88 (talk) 02:47, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

I will try to address as many of these issues as soon as I can. However, I will not be active for around 10 days. So I beg your patience. ----Երևանցի ^talk 18:26, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

@Yerevantsi: Ok, I understand. Keep me updated, anything over 10 days you need to talk to me as I do not want to feel as the review is abandoned. Have a nice vacation. AmericanAir88 (talk) 18:37, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

@Yerevantsi: It has been more than 10 days and I see that you are back. I hope you enjoyed the break. Can you get started on these issues soon? AmericanAir88^(talk) 22:38, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

@AmericanAir88: I'd like to continue Yerevantsi's work if you don't mind.--Cheetah (talk) 07:17, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

@Yerevantsi: @Crzycheetah: I am going to pass this but if you plan for FA, this needs work. Thank you cheetah for the help. AmericanAir88^(talk) 13:52, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Kurdish Name of mountain

The Kurdish name of the mountain is Çiyayê Agirî . Avestaboy (talk) 19:32, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Assistance request from Wikipedia community

User:Yerevantsi is at the moment starting a "revert/undo" war causing relevant information to get washed up in the process. See his/her latest edit deleting a summit photo of Mount Ararat/Ağrı by METU academicians and also deleting the related information in the process. Also the logo of a local university referenced with the mountain is deleted. I would like to point out that the mountian is in Turkey boundaries not in Armenia. However this can not be appraised while reading the page. The answer for this was given earlier as the Armenian culture & symbolism has a lot of material on this issue. Accepting this answer as a fair one, I began to think about strengthening the Turkish people's view about the mountian. Therefore I started to create a sub-section (via putting a template, however it is deleted in the process also, deleting a work-in-progress template by the way is un-Wiki behaviour) trying to inform the readers of Wikipedia that Mount Ararat/Ağrı is also of significance to Turkish people in whose boundaries the mountain rests. I do not want to divulge in politics between the two good nations of Turkey and Armenia, but the "revert/undo" process reminds me this agenda unfortunately. To sum up I would like to contribute to this article and emphasise on the topic that Turkish people also have multiple aspects symbolising the Turkish people's admiration to Mount Ararat/Ağrı. Best regards...Ertly (talk) 12:11, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

Start by actually adding reliable sources that speak of the mountain's "Significance for Turkish peoples". Not only is the section header very POV, because, as I said, not a single source speaks of such significance for Turkish (sic) peoples, but the whole content of that section does not match the header. It's entirely WP:OR. Try to familiarize yourself with how Wikipedia works and how you cannot just put random information together under a POV header like "Significance for Turkish peoples". ----Երևանցի ^talk 12:25, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

I have been "around" for more than you think my dear friend, therefore please stop patronising and check my works first. I have added a world wide Turkish author's info into the page that had long been "forgotten" by the Wikipedia community. I have added the extra info that a university in Turkey uses the mountain as its logo. What you consider original work is actually a "fact" that two leading academicians belonging to a well known university in Turkey (METU) had made summit in 1966, I have added the original photo. Therefore I am not waiting replies from you, I am requesting assistance from Wikipedia community. Take care...Ertly (talk) 14:31, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 April 2020

I want to change the name of the article from Mount Ararat to Mount Agrı. Mountain is in Turkey and its official name must be in Turkish not Armenian. Hadican Çatak 08:58, 6 April 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hadican Çatak (talk • contribs)

We use whatever form is the most common in the English-speaking world, see WP:USEENGLISH, WP:COMMONNAME, and WP:OFFICIAL. – Thjarkur (talk) 12:44, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Armenian name

Why is the Armenian name of the town included? These have been Turkish and Kurdish lands for a thousand years. Articles on Greek islands that were Turkish territory a hundred years ago are not allowing Turkish names to be included! Double standards seem to be at play. Someone explain it logically please. Dominator1071 (talk) 23:16, 15 August 2020 (UTC)