Talk:Gary Player: Difference between revisions

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Current Event!

This should be marked as a current event, in the Did you know... column, and it should also probably be locked to prevent his press army from chopping my addition. All the information presented here was summarized from George Monbiot's column in The Guardian which I read in my beloved Taipei Times. I love Wikipedia. And Mr. Monbiot wrote quite an outstanding and well-researched piece, and funny too. Nice phone work. --Torchpratt 12:07, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Poor phrasing

Is anybody else bothered by using trademarked phrases like the one in this article? --Arcadian 14:55, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Well it's hardly the worst thing about the article, which is mostly just raw data. It's not a copy-vio to repeat a phrase in this way. I'll start working on it now, and come back now and again until it's fixed. Wincoote 16:11, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Should the tiff between Player and Tom Watson be documented in here? --70.21.45.88 23:34, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am very bothered by the reference: "is sometimes referred to as one of the big three" listed in the Wikipedia reference for Gary Player. Player IS one of the big three, there is no "sometimes" about it. I believe this is disrespectful to the career Gary Player has had, and the phenomenal golfer and person he is. It seems as though Gary Player is overshadowed in the media by his other two counterparts of the Big Three. It appears his success as an athlete is undervalued in favor of recognizing and celebrating the other two golfers (which I assume is a US influence).If you put "big three golf" in the search engine of google, the first two references are of "the big three" being Gary Player, Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklaus. Very poor phrasing.

Player isn't always referred to as one of the big three so using "sometimes" in this article seems fair. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.142.101.172 (talk) 15:41, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

African American

If he is a citizen of the USA, should he not be referred to as African American? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.186.223.187 (talk) 21:11, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

eeh, thats a touchy topic. Technically yes, but in reality no would have to be my answer.--Duffy2032 (talk) 04:52, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What's so touchy about the topic? Anyway, the answer is 'yes' because he's from Africa and he's a citizen of the U.S.A.--137.186.232.27 (talk) 21:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The answer is "no" because "African American" has a specific meaning, and Gary Player doesn't fit it. "African Americans are citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black populations of Africa." --Mugsywwiii (talk) 17:44, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"What's so touchy about the topic?" Wow, okay, sounds like we've got a lot of catching up to do here. —64.134.189.209 (talk) 04:13, 7 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Last Masters

gary player playing ??? 52/53 times in masters is a record and today the announcers thought that it appeared this appearance this year might be his last ... perhaps as yet unclear...

arnie niklus 69.121.221.97 (talk) 04:59, 11 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Gary Player Specials

Why no mention of these cigarettes? It was a massive sponsorship deal at the time, and they were world-famous. This should be included in the biography. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.163.175.181 (talk) 16:03, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Gary Player Senior Majors

Note: moved from User talk:Tewapack to here, logical place for discussion.

Please note that Gary Player has won 9 senior major championships. http://garyplayer.com/legend/the_majors '86 PGA, '87 TPC, '87 US, '88 British, '88 PGA, '88 US, '90 British, '90 PGA and '97 British. The total is 9 majors and 9 senior majors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GKLipsco (talk • contribs) 18:39, 7 May 2012 (GKLipsco (talk) 18:41, 7 May 2012 (UTC)).[reply]

Just because he calls them majors doesn't make them so. The pre-2003 Senior British Opens are not majors. See the article for details. Tewapack (talk) 18:43, 7 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Gary has been incorrectly claiming the Senior British as a major championship win for himself since 1990[1]. The fact is it only became a major in 2003 as Tewapack wrote above. Here's a news article[2] from 2002 which quotes the Executive Director of the European Tour on the matter....William 22:33, 7 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Senior Open is and always has been considered a Major by every recognized professional golf tour around the world including the European Tour. The only exception was the US Tour (who now does count it). The PGA Tour did the same thing with The Open Championship on the regular tour for many, many years until that too was acknowledged and back dated. Wikipedia should reflect a truly global encyclopedia and needs to fall in line with the majority of the global golf organizations who do count The Senior from when it was established. The European Tour Website even states 9 Senior Majors http://www.europeantour.com/seniortour/players/playerid=155/bio/index.html.GKLipsco (talk) 20:54, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You're wrong, read the linked article above. Here is another article[3] on the 2003 British Senior Open that says Watson squared off against Nicklaus in the opening round of the newest major on the Champions Tour The link you get has no mention of it being a major, just a win for Player.

All this logical reasoning I think will on the deaf ears of a troll. Your edits show a total fixation on Gary Player even when it contradicts both facts and other player articles. Shouldn't you be changing all the Senior British Open winners prior to 2002 not just Player? Or Putting Player's other results into his Senior Major Championship section? How about changing the flags of the other South African golfers who won the SBO? I could start a case for you being blocked from editing. If you don't think I would, I suggest you check this out.[4] Cheerio!...William 22:40, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Explanation for My December 29 edit

I removed two full paragraphs in this edit. Both used this as a source[5]. That is a personal website and those fail WP:RS. What was written, was first published at the Guardian here[6]. A newspaper oped would be a RS except if one looks closely at the website[7], this was a unsolicited oped submitted to the Guardian by its author. What if any kind of factchecking it underwent before publication is unknown. Therefore I think we can't use anything from it in the Player article....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 21:11, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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New wins: 1960 South African PGA Championship, 1959 Western Province Open

Reply posted on my talk page but better here. The point being that they are mentioned on Gary Player's official website and the PGA Tour website (and indeed here: http://www.worldgolfhalloffame.org/gary-player/?tab=achievements too).

These sources are all the same one, basically, and probably supplied by Player himself. The list does appear in various places but is clearly the same one, just copied. Golfers own websites are very unreliable generally. Anyway, the main question is whether they are correct or not. South African PGA Championship has the event not being played in 1960. He did win in 1959 (finished 7 February) but Dunlop moved their sponsorship to a stroke play event for 1960. See: https://www.where2golf.com/tournament.aspx?t=to&v=48990 (which is also not always reliable). This has a different structure to us in that it regards the pre-1960 events as being part of the Masters line while we regard them as part of the PGA Championship line. Anyway, in 1960 it has Player winning the "South African Stroke play Masters" with a score of 266 which we have as the first South African Masters. My suspicion is that Player's list which has both "South African PGA Championship, South African Masters" for 1960 is actually the same event. I see you've also added Player winning the Western Province Open in 1959 even though we already have a 1959 winner. The Times for 12 January 1959 says clearly that Henning won on 280 with E Moore runner-up on 282. The 1960 event was played in early March, returning to early January in 1961 - Henning winning again by a stroke from Verwey, so how can Player have won in both 1959 and 1960? Personally I think there's a lot of doubt about these new "wins" and you need to find some better source that Player himself, for me to believe them. Nigej (talk) 07:57, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Looking further I see that the 1959 WPO was only deleted from the article 2 months ago, on 19 April 2017, having been on the page for some years (since 12 Oct 2014), so it's not a new "find" anyway. Nigej (talk) 10:52, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a link to a PDF[8] of the 2005 Champions Tour media guide book. Player's profile is on pages 126 and 127 of the PDF and they don't even list Player's SA PGA Championship wins....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 13:41, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I really don't think you are listening to what I am saying when Player turned 80. The PGA Tour ran a piece called "Gary turns 80" it lists all his wins including 5 SA PGA's and 6 western provinces opens now these wins are also listed on Player's official website. You are claiming that this is not a source ?. it's two different websites that people reference. Do you think Gary Player made these two wins up ?. Just because it's not on wiki does not mean people are wrong. Lots of these old events are incomplete. It's not about opinion on wiki it's about fact I do work on all sports on here and if you have a source you use it. It's not about people's opinions no matter if you agree with it or not 31.200.149.202 (talk) 16:37, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I would like you guys to read that article I told you about that lists all these wins as well when you get the time 31.200.149.202 (talk) 16:41, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If you want someone to read something, it would be polite to provide a link.Secondly, the article can be wrong. Do you know how many times Doug Ferguson (The same Doug Ferguson who forgot Larry Mize's chip in Birdie at the 1987 Masters when listing the top 5 shots in Masters history.) of Associated Press has stated the Kemper Open was first played in Bethesda Maryland in 1969? Well I have lost count and the Kemper Open didn't move to Congressional/Bethesda till 1980. I used to regularly pick on the factual mistakes by golf writers when I used to blog. Another thing, if a person tells a writer 'I won this', the reporter is under no obligation to correct it when writing about the golfer even if what the golfer says is not true. I briefly did some golf blogging for a major news organization and know how the business works.

We have multiple sources that contradict one another, including the PGA Tour contradicting itself....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 18:19, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I told you the link very simple "Gary Player is 80" PGA Tour. It doesn't get any easier than that. Again as I said deal in facts not your opinion of a player who says I won this or that. That is a statement you are making we have no proof that the sources are wrong 92.251.136.84 (talk) 19:07, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You need to provide some good evidence they are correct. I explained above why I am doubtful. Player at 80 is just the same stuff repeated again and again. That doesn't make it true. You seem to think that everything out there is true. Nigej (talk) 08:08, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Tewapack has removed Player's 9 majors wins from his Sunshine Tour section saying they were double counted when in fact they were not i had made a note of this on that section. He has reduced Player's career total to 155 now instead of 164. If he could count properly even by removing these 9 events the career total would still amount to 164. You can check this yourselves. Will one of you change the total back to 164 as the page is locked I can't do it. It's unreal this stuff it really is.92.251.136.84 (talk) 18:58, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Where the professional wins are listed it still States 155 that needs to be changed to 164 also. It's such a shame the page is locked 92.251.136.84 (talk) 19:17, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

My bad - they did not belong in the S.A. wins section though. Tewapack (talk) 19:20, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I had a note there stating they were not double counted. Why shouldn't they be there do majors not count on the Sunshine Tour ? 92.251.136.84 (talk) 19:24, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The nine majors he won were never events on the Sunshine Tour (or its predecessors). Tewapack (talk) 19:26, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Player won the 1959 East Rand Open, see The Times or Glasgow Herald, 2 feb 1959, showing that Players list is NOT 100% correct. Will add when I get back from hols. Nigej (talk) 11:39, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Tyco Golf Skills Challenge

Q: Should we be including the Tyco Golf Skills Challenge in Players win totals?

It was not a recognized professional golf tournament. Accordingly, Player's win in 1995 is not counted as a tournament victory by the majority of reliable sources, including his own website and the World Golf Hall of Fame. Therefore, we should also not be including it. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 14:46, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No we shouldn't. It is just like winning the Masters Par 3 tournament. That's not a recognized win either....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 14:48, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with last comment why do we count the tylenol par 3 contest as a professional win then ? . I have said this for years if the masters par 3 is not a win the tylenol par 3 should not be included 92.251.182.243 (talk) 15:07, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Revision as of 15:07, 25 August 2020 edit 92.251.182.243 (talk) →Tyco Golf Skills Challenge ← Previous edit		Revision as of 15:08, 25 August 2020 edit undo 92.251.182.243 (talk) →Tyco Golf Skills Challenge Next edit →
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	::No we shouldn't. It is just like winning the Masters Par 3 tournament. That's not a recognized win either.[[User:WilliamJE\|...William]], is the complaint department really on [[User talk:WilliamJE\|the roof?]] 14:48, 25 August 2020 (UTC)		::No we shouldn't. It is just like winning the Masters Par 3 tournament. That's not a recognized win either.[[User:WilliamJE\|...William]], is the complaint department really on [[User talk:WilliamJE\|the roof?]] 14:48, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

	I disagree with last comment why do we count the tylenol par ~~3contest~~ as a professional win then . I have said this for years if the masters par 3 is not a win the tylenol par 3 should not be included [[Special:Contributions/92.251.182.243\|92.251.182.243]] ([[User talk:92.251.182.243\|talk]]) 15:07, 25 August 2020 (UTC)		I disagree with last comment why do we count the tylenol par 3 contest as a professional win then ? . I have said this for years if the masters par 3 is not a win the tylenol par 3 should not be included [[Special:Contributions/92.251.182.243\|92.251.182.243]] ([[User talk:92.251.182.243\|talk]]) 15:07, 25 August 2020 (UTC)