Talk:Stockholm

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 April 2019 and 14 June 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Katemackie (article contribs).

IPA-pronunciation for "Stockholm"

@SergeWoodzing and IvanScrooge98: English-speakers have no problems pronouncing "Stockholm" in English, since it's very straight-forward, so the IPA-pronounciation of the name in the lead should of course be the Swedish pronounciation... - Tom | Thomas.W ^talk 22:05, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, I was going to say that before.

Wikipedia’s policy clearly states:

• “If [and only if I would say] a common English rendering of the foreign name exists […], its pronunciation, if necessary, should be indicated before the foreign one”
  

and below:

• “When a foreign name has a set English pronunciation (or pronunciations), include both the English and foreign-language pronunciations”

Nowhere it is openly said: “remove random IPA and audio files” or “avoid adding new foreign pronunciations”; instead, “pronunciation should be indicated sparingly” may also refer to English pronunciations, which is the case for Stockholm. イヴァンスクルージ九十八_（会話） 22:13, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

We can remove the English IPA per MOS:LEADPRON. The Swedish pronunciation should stay, it doesn't take up any space and it's useful. Kbb2 (ex. Mr KEBAB) (talk) 13:30, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

I believe the footnote solution is the best for the type of pronunciation guidance which is not generally useful to readers of English, such as how Swedes pronounce Stockholm. Who cares, outside of the Swedish-speaking world? So why clutter up the first line in the lead with trivia like that?

Wikipedia is not a language school. If it were, it would be more important for English Wikipedia to teach Swedes how to pronouce English than vice versa. A Swede who pronunces the name of his capital city in perfect English, when speaking English, will do well. A Swede who tries to force the Swedish pronunciation on people who really aren't that interested, or needy, will not do well. I've worked with all this stuff for over 50 years now, seen it all.

Anyway, I have taken rather seriously ill today, unfortunately, and will try to address this in a more comprehensive manner, perhaps by suggesting changes to guideline, when I feel better. We need consensus on a better guideline.

Meanwhile, please promise me not to add pronunciation re: how Swedes might say "Gothenburg" (Gååtännburj?) or Danes might say "Copenhagen" (DenKaapenädenlillehääägendäouh?)! Readers of English do not need to know any of that either. Deal? --SergeWoodzing (talk) 13:44, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

“Who cares, outside of the Swedish-speaking world?” Hello, people interested in Sweden (one of the possible reasons they are here for)?? This project is mainly intended for English-speaking people. Also,

1. nobody is forcing readers to use the Swedish pronunciation in English;
2. we are not talking about how non-native English speakers pronounce English-language names (such as Gothenburg). イヴァンスクルージ九十八_（会話） 14:34, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

People who take a general interest in Sweden are not normally interested in having language lessons thrown at them. In person, they might smile politely. There are plenty of other websites that provide that kind of information, i.e. appropriate forums for such interest & info.

1. Don't misquote me please! Forcing someone to do something and forcing something on someone (such as cluttering the first line of many lead sections with trivia) are not the same thing.
2. Stockholm has been a word in the English language for hundreds of years. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 15:33, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Okay, it is clear (considering some of your recent edits) you and I have a profoundly different opinion regarding what is “trivia” and what is not, so it is pointless to keep arguing about that. On the other hand, what I mean is: while Gothenburg is English and should only be provided an English IPA (similarly, Göteborg is Swedish and should only be provided a Swedish IPA), Stockholm is both the English and native name of the city, so it should have both IPA transcriptions as they are both relevant to the topic. イヴァンスクルージ九十八_（会話） 17:00, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Or possibly the Swedish one only, accordingly to what is argued above. イヴァンスクルージ九十八_（会話） 17:02, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

As a foonote OK. I'm fine with that. Readers of English may need immediate help in trying to pronounce names like Storkyrkan (which they might ask Swedes how to find when in Stockholm, and many Stockholmers wouldn't know what the Great Church or Stockholm Cathedral was) but they do not need a relatively useless Swedish pronunciation of Stockholm thrown at them in the very first line of this article. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 19:16, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Again, you are thus going to need to discuss the whole general thing in a more appropriate place; otherwise we will have articles like this with short notes and other articles with much longer strings of text in brackets. イヴァンスクルージ九十八_（会話） 21:31, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

So what are we gonna do? This talk has been fruitlessly going on here and there (and on my talk) for too long. イヴァンスクルージ九十八_（会話） 12:14, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

Footnote OK. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 15:55, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

Climate section

The climate section seems to be completely messed up (starting with an incomplete edit by Boeing720 31 october 2018). Could someone (with roll back access) please roll it back to the version prior to that?

--NiccoUrban (talk) 22:30, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

National urban park

In the introduction it is stated that "Stockholm is the only capital in the world with a national urban park.". This is true, since that concept (according to the article in Swdish wikipedia , nationalstadspark) only exists in Sweden and Finland. The capital of Finland lacks such a park. The sentence should therefore imo be changed to Stockholm is the only capital in Sweden-Finland with a national urban park. In the Helsinki article, it should also be stated that Helsinki is the only capital in Sweden-Finland without a national urban park.

Or as I would prefer the most: Let us skip the sentence completely. Please give some arguments in favor of keeping the sentence, or I will erase it.

NB: An National urban park is not a national park. It is just legislative defintion on land use and development.

--NiccoUrban (talk) 13:15, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Only islands or mainland as well?

The first paragraph says, "The city stretches across fourteen islands where Lake Mälaren flows into the Baltic Sea." Is none of it on the mainland? Nurg (talk) 04:44, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Fjollträsk

Is the name Fjollträsk worth mentioning here? I (sort of) explain it with a source at Talk:Fjollträsk#Explanation. Glades12 (talk) 08:15, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

No, in my opinion. Just trying to explain the whole thing to English-readers would be more excessive, tedious and far-flung than it would be worth. Some people way up north have called the capital city "fag squalor" and a few Swedish films & programs have picked up on that. So what? --SergeWoodzing (talk) 11:21, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Why not? Listed are:

Nickname(s): Eken, the Venice of the North, the Venice of Scandinavia,[1] Mälardrottningen.

I would say Fjollträsk is far more used in contemporary society?

If you use it, and you think it's cutesy-witty & sarcastically poignant in Swedish, and if you think it's a great idea, almost an epiphany, to bring the Swedish homosexual pejorative for "faggot" or "sissy" or "prissy-looloo" into English Wikipedia with it, that's up to you. Why ask "why not?"? Here, it is Swedish-language trivia & for the reasons I've explained it does not belong in the English article. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 14:41, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

It's used in advertising, films and media so I guess it's ok. Thanks!

In Swedish such, yes, On English Wikipedia, no. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 17:37, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

That's the weirdest argument I've ever heard. It is a de facto nickname for Stockholm. So if I provide an advertisement from an English speaking country as a source it would be included? I didn't know advertising campaigns dictated what should be included on Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.234.33.218 (talk) 10:02, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

It is trivia at best, in Swedish, not a common nickname. It is of no use to English readers, except perhaps that a few Swedes who do not like Stockholm like to use the homosexual pejorative (faggot slur) involved. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 10:15, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

What are you on about it is a culturally based nickname widely used by people, advertising, media, movies and film and as I linked it is researched in academia. It's more used than "mälardrottningen" so why don't you remove that also? It is de facto the most common nickname and is used widely without prejudice. I'm not promoting anything and you shouldn't argue what I've added but what my sources say. Since now you are just removing well sourced content. Going to add it again.

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