Talk:StarCraft

Shadow of the Xel'Naga draft

There is an abandoned draft of a retired Wikipedia editor at User:S@bre/StarCraft: Shadow of the Xel'Naga that will probably be deleted at some point unless an editor here decides to take it up. Or, you could nominate it for deletion yourself if you don't find it helpful. Daask (talk) 06:26, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

It appears to have 0 sources, so it's likely to go the way of deletion. —  HELLKNOWZ   ▎TALK 11:34, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

"4 races" should be 3

the article opens by stating the game focuses on the conflict 4 races, which includes the Xel'naga, however there is only 1 xel'naga at any point during the series proper (Amon) there are other xel'naga, however other than amon and various minions of his the xelnaga are not in conflict with any of the other 3 races. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.221.121.30 (talk) 17:01, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

Starcraft II split

@Joy: I disagree with how you're splitting the article here. This article is about the franchise as a whole, not just the original games. It looks like nearly all content about StarCraft II has been removed but it should still be in this article. That "Starcraft II" has become a entity distinctive from the original "Wings of Liberty" release and Blizzard clouded their own waters, I agree, but "Starcraft II" remains part of "Starcraft (the franchise)" -- ferret (talk) 13:49, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

There is no 'franchise as a whole', it's a common story and company, but two different groups of games, which have rather different characteristics, sources covering them, audiences, etc.

I tried to verify the claim that it's one big franchise before doing this, but I couldn't - our article here linked to a 2017 pamphlet that didn't split off SC2, but it didn't actually say what the article said had said, so I actually had to fix that first.

Essentially, I don't see a problem with listing SC2 prominently here, but it has a whole story of its own, and there is very little conflict because the sources are mostly separate in the real world anyway. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 13:54, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

I do not understand of your response. "StarCraft" is clearly a franchise, with multiple game releases that share a universe and characters, plus novels, board games, comics and the tie-in with Heroes of the Storm, which refers to the property simply as "StarCraft" regardless of which game the characters are pulled from. Blizzard does not sell "StarCraft II" merchandise, only "StarCraft." While you might treat "StarCraft II" as a sub-series within the franchise, the franchise is clearly the parent topic and has to cover the full set of games. "StarCraft" (the 1998 game) is not a separate series. It's a single game with a single expansion pack. -- ferret (talk) 13:59, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Are merchandise and other artifacts more critical to the description of the video game franchise than the actual video games? Or are you saying that it's not a *video game* franchise, but rather a generic media franchise at this point?

Ultimately, I disagree with the claim that the 1998 SC game is not clearly distinct from the SCII game series. They literally had it remastered *separately* from the sequel, surely that's proof enough that it has a life of its own (if you're not already convinced by the existence of the Brood War esports scene etc). --Joy [shallot] (talk) 14:04, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

BTW I don't necessarily disagree with the claim that StarCraft can describe both. Certainly it seems that the original authors conflate everything in https://www.blizzardgearstore.com/games/o-10274642+z-9354554-940527051 I do however think that readers can clearly distinguish the SC1 from SC2 series, and going into the details of SC2 on the page that primarily talks of SC1, seems redundant. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 14:07, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

I still don't follow you. Video games have remasters all the time. Of course, StarCraft (1) is a distinct and still popular game. That doesn't make it a separate series? StarCraft, as a franchise, is primarily video game but certainly goes broader and Blizzard definitely does not treat the two games as separate IPs or series. -- ferret (talk) 14:16, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

It does make it a separate series, of course, I'm literally arguing for treating them as two separate series, as that is what happens in the real world. But I guess we're mostly in disagreement as to how to delineate the two in context of *both* being able to be something that a reader would expect to search for as "StarCraft". I'm not going to dispute the revert as it is, just keep separating SC2 stuff properly in the lower levels of the Wikipedia hierarchy, and see where this gets us. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 14:24, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

I 100% agree with StarCraft II existing. Blizzard released Wings of Liberty as if it was a standalone game, which would have two expansions, but over the years that situation quickly became muddy and now it's a game unto itself with something more akin to... content packs? I'm not sure StarCraft II should be described as a series but as a video game that has three campaigns. However, regardless of what form StarCraft II ultimately takes, it's definitely part of a broader "StarCraft" franchise. -- ferret (talk) 14:28, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

We know that internally, Starcraft is only 1 IP within Blizzard, as Titan (later Overwatch) was designed to be their fourth after Starcraft, Warcraft, and Diablo. There is no reason to try to treat "StarCraft II" as a separate series from "StarCraft". It is a separate game, it has notable expansions and a notable remaster, but they all belong in the StarCraft franchise. --Masem (t) 14:43, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

I will add that the massive amount of changes to treat "StarCraft II" as a wholly separate series from the first StarCraft game is completely inappropriate, follows none of the sources or standard practice, and needs to be undone. As ferret says, we can treat "Wings of Liberty" as the default target of "StarCraft II", but that still is a game with expansions and remasters but all within the StarCraft franchise, not a seperate series. --Masem (t) 15:19, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

+1 to all of this. I'm honestly kind of baffled that we're even having this discussion because I really don't understand the rationale behind treating the two games as separate series. They share a common story, common characters, common gameplay, common developer, etc. etc. That the sources sometimes talk about them separately is unsurprising given that they came out in different decades and not a reason to consider them separate series. DocFreeman24 (talk) 17:38, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Joy, I tried to verify the claim that it's one big franchise before doing this, but I couldn't is going around this entire thing backwards... you should be trying to prove the novel idea that an IP is being treated as two separate things. Blizzard doesn't treat them as two separate things, no common sources I've seen do either. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 15:36, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

I agree in a case like this where no evidence has been provided that they are separate series (outside of personal opinion) the burden of proof lies on the person making the claim not the people disputing it.--67.70.101.238 (talk) 18:08, 18 April 2021 (UTC)