Talk:Holodomor

Capitalist vs Communist Famines

Other stuff exists is not a reason to change this article away from reliably sourced material. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 19:35, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This is listed as a genocide, while other easily preventable famines (such as the Famines in British India, and those today in third-world capitalist countries) aren't? The famines under capitalism kill OVER 7 MILLION PEOPLE EVERY YEAR, could be EASILY PREVENTED but aren't because it is NOT PROFITABLE TO DO SO. If this page is counted as a genocide, then easily preventable famines under capitalist regimes should be too, in order for views to be unbiased. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.85.200.227 (talk) 18:15, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Move to "Golodomor"

Why is it called "holodomor" and not "golodomor", I mean in Russian, its pronounced as a "G" and not an "H", using a "Г" and not a "Х", as in "Голодомо́р". ReaIdiot (talk) 06:18, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Because it's not in russian—blindlynx (talk) 15:43, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

While the first letter is the same in both Russian and Ukrainian ("г"), "г" is transliterated as "g" for Russian words (See Russian alphabet#Letters but "h" for Ukrainian ones (see Ukrainian alphabet#Letter names and pronunciation.) However, some sources transliterate the word as golodomor. TFD (talk) 16:11, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Scant mentions of the experiences of the Ukrainian Jewish population, and related issues

There are very few mentions of the trials of the sizeable Jewish population in Ukraine at this time. One of the few hits is a very understated comment on antisemitism in Ukraine, and another is possibly incorrectly cited demographic breakdown from Roy Medvedev's book that was citing Babyonyshev's paper which made no declarations about ethnic demographic impact (and someone would need to get their hands on Medvedev's book to clear that up).

Outside of these instances, there is a frustrating silence. I decided to dive into archived talk page posts here that included "Jewish", which did not turn up anything helpful as most instances of the word were used in comparisons to the Holocaust (with a few very antisemitic remarks from a handful of long-inactive accounts). Fittingly, I found one other person who raised my same concern six years ago with no relevant replies. I'm commenting here in the hopes that this subject would finally bring some light to the plight of the contemporary Ukrainian Jews, which at the time numbered over a million and would play no small part to an event of this scale. Mewnst (talk) 01:01, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

Mewnst - interesting topic. I had a brief look on Google Scholar and it seems little is published. A fairly recent paper entitled "The Holodomor and Jews in Kyiv and Ukraine: An Introduction and Observations on a Neglected Topic"[1] looks useful, but points out how little scholarship there is on the topic, which might explain its scant mention in our article. BobFromBrockley (talk) 08:57, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

There's actually a paper that was recently published on this topic [2] i haven't had a chance to pick it up yet though. This is a sadly overlooked part of the Holod and certainly warrants inclusion given that the hardest-hit areas were about a third Jewish. That said because it is overlooked there's not a lot of reliable sources on the topic. I'll post what i find here though so we can work to include it—blindlynx (talk) 19:07, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

If an aspect of a topic is "neglected" in the literature, then it lacks weight for inclusion. Instead, we need the experts to correct this neglect first, before we add the information. TFD (talk) 19:39, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

There's a fair bit of talk in the lit that this is underresearched not only specifically about Jews but the topic in general—blindlynx (talk) 01:03, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

It could be that since the narrative of Holodomor casts the Ukrainian famine as a genocide against the Ukrainian people, that Jews, Russians and other non-Ukrainians who died during the famine were not part of the genocide. TFD (talk) 02:17, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

The use of famine for genocide and crimes against humanity wasn't limited to Ukrainians. There's a problem of terminology because the term 'Holodomor' refers both to the targeted famine against various ethnic groups and the wider genocide of Ukrainian that was perpetrated until WW2 using other means. I'll find some decent sources on this and post them here—blindlynx (talk) 03:47, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

"holodomor" vs "great famine"

why is this famine conveyed as intentional and compared to genocide when the Irish potato famine was equally "intentional" (caused by laissez-faire capitalism, absentee landlords, and reliance on a single strain of a crop)? seems like a bias. 2603:7000:8C01:1513:B070:F947:C888:DAF8 (talk) 12:58, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Does your question relate more to the Great Famine (Ireland) article? Or are you proposing some kind of improvement(s) here? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:16, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

I think you answer your own question. The Famine in Ireland was caused by laissez-faire capitalism and absentee landlords. Therefore, it wasn’t “intentional”; rather it was caused by neglect and ignorance. The government in London even tried to create relief efforts. This is in stark contrast to the deliberate actions of the communists in Moscow to cause suffering in Ukraine. Thanks. Kentish (talk) 17:50, 28 July 2021 (GMT)