User talk:K. Lastochka

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I uploaded that pic to the sandbox....didn't think I had to go through any official stuff there...K. Lastochka 22:41, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome

Welcome!

Hello, K. Lastochka, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!

And i surely hope that you'll get my joke about Turkmenbashi one day :) --Amir E. Aharoni 23:21, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Shalom Amir, I was pretty sure it was a joke but just wanted to make sure. :) I have Turkmen friend who has several times had his life nearly wrecked by that maniac, so it's a slightly sensitive topic for me. K. Lastochka 22:40, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If your friend can get on Wikipedia and write some stuff about Turkmenistan, it would be great. I'm very curious about this country and its history and language, and not just because of the crazy dictatorship, but information is very hard to find. --Amir E. Aharoni 06:58, 26 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately he doesn't really have the time. :( K. Lastochka 15:29, 26 May 2006 (UTC) One thing he did tell me about Turkmenistan is that before the fall of the USSR, Ashgabat was the third-most cosmopolitan city in the whole USSR, a big, vibrant city with people of all sorts of ethnic backgrounds, and as much of a cultural center as is possible in Central Asia. :) First was Moscow, he said, then Baku, then Ashgabat. It's really sad what has happened to that poor little country. K. Lastochka 16:52, 26 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Central Asia

WikiProject Central Asia has finally been created! If you're interested, please consider joining us. Aelfthrytha 21:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Neat, I'll drop in occasionally! :) K. Lastochka 02:32, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

1956

And a hearty jó napot to you too... I am 100% in agreement that 56 should be up as feature on 10/23 (or any time during late October), and the AID is the critical path for this. Thanks for putting out the word, but it seems we are stuck at 21 for right now. Maybe contacting each of the Hungarians that hang out on the Hungarian pages? Ive done a few with mixed success... And please dont feel the need to explain or apologise for ethnicity (sorry if Im not catching a joke, but this IS email really) You are welcome on this side of the barricade as russian, czech, magyar, or whatever.Istvan 19:42, 16 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I WAS basically joking about the awkwardness my Russian username--I've only recently found out that I'm (very little) part Magyar and all my email/internet/whatever else stuff is all Russian. I'm just multicultural, I guess. :) Anyway, there is a whole list of "Wikipedians in Hungary" that I stumbled across, maybe we can bother some of them. Only if they write back in Hungarian, they're officially YOURS to deal with....csak egy kicsit beszelék magyarul. :) K. Lastochka 21:56, 16 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi,

Thanks for notifying me about that voting. (This English wikipedia is so huge and complicated that I just can't keep my eye on all the pages where a vote would be needed :)) We recently started to use our noticeboard at Wikipedia:Hungarian Wikipedians' notice board, if you have any Hungary-related thing to say, you can post it there. I already notified them about the voting. BTW it's a big shame but the Hungarian Wikipedia's article about the revolution is hardly more than a stub at this moment, it is more likely that we'll expand the HuWiki article from that of EnWiki than vice versa... we just realized yesterday that we'll have to work on it a lot in the next few weeks :) – Alensha ^talk 13:12, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Lastochka, An idea - if you are connected to Czech wiki or Czech groups then please ask for their votes for 1956, and extend our support for Prague Spring in 2008 - I will certainly vote for it when the time comes, and Im sure they'd be willing to vote for 56 if they knew it was up. BTW, quite an impressive jump today - good work to you and Alensha! Istvan 21:01, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No kidding! and I hope this Hungarian Revolution thing doesnt morph into more current event than historical reference. Thanks for the promotion BTW - your promotion and Ryanjo's editing are great helps in putting 56 up as feature on 23 Oct. Istvan 16:06, 20 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Congratulations on the AID victory! and thanks for the barnstar too.Istvan 02:20, 24 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Szívesen. (that's "you're welcome") and egeségedre (close analog to "cheers" in the US sense). I purposely only gave those to people who were not already awarded one from you (it would look odd) it is up to you to do as you choose. I was thinking that the first thing we should do is to archive all the old discussion and start the discussion page with a clean slate. Although the article is not in good shape, it is much better now than it was two or three weeks ago - we should remember to recognise those who have put their hearts into it. Also, please dont expect a mass influx of attention - the AID response is often underwhelming, though we may be suprised (its amazing what a small group of dedicated people can do). Still, this is the nominal process to take towards feature status. Istvan 15:59, 24 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, but could I make a suggestion? that the very last bits from the previous discussion (now in the archive) be retained; I would suggest at a minimum NCurse's comments, and at a maximum everything below "50-years old echo" - These are still somewhat topical. (I certainly dont want to seem to be reverting your edits, especially that I recommended...)Istvan 17:57, 24 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK, its done without reverting.

Re: 1956 revolution article

Generally, the introduction should be a ~3-paragraph overview/summary of the entire article. While it doesn't have to go into too much detail, it should be pretty understandable if read alone (without the remainder of the article). Kirill Lokshin 18:12, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Lastochka, I think to go from AID to FA(C) we need lots of tidying up and especially more photos (lots of them). Its too early to put this up for FA right now, but I think by the time you hear back from the HA re: copyright and can put up the photos, then it will be ready. Istvan 01:44, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the compliment - yes, its coming along very nicely, and yes, it was a big pile of garbage a few months ago but the credit goes to all, and especially to Ryanjo for starting the process - putting it into the shape of a real article. What is remarkable - compared to about a year ago, is how much progress has occurred with so little discord. Still, - ne igyál elõre...

I think it should go up as FAC right away. As for the photos, we cant wait for them anymore - the clock will kill us, and if we can somehow swing it during the review process, then it will certainly be almost as good.

The main thing now besides the photos, is the unevenness of the references. Ironically, they are only appearing during the main body and are not repeated in the summaries of the top - I dont know if this is good form or not, Im sure we're about to find out... Istvan 22:02, 8 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re: our new-and-improved 56 article

Very nice! I think the major concerns from the peer review have been resolved now; the only remaining points I can see are the title of the article and the large template at the bottom, and those are both fairly minor. I would suggest submitting this to the A-Class review, and, once that passes, moving on to FAC. Kirill Lokshin 14:08, 6 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the barnstar :) (Sorry that I'm late, I just noticed it because I hardly ever watch my own user page :D) love, Alensha ^talk 16:23, 7 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK, we're up for peer review and Ive asked Kirill to give us a re-rate on the MilHist (so we dont have to overload the FAC nomination with caveats and give antihungarians an easy target). Question to you - what can we do to help the peer review request along? I intend to do more copyediting/streamlining but need your help with the photos - (creating the 56 barnstar illustrates the limits of my graphics abilities) Thanks!Istvan 19:08, 7 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Szia, Ncurse, the freshly minted Hungarian admin, wrote back regarding the 56 pics (its on my talk page)

"Hi! Of course, I'll try to help you in that wonderful task. So I've contacted with some admins on IRC, and they've agreed with me about the tag: Template:CopyrightedFreeUseProvidedThat, with the exact source and an e-mail address. And we should send a new mail to the owner of that page to inform him about these images. I hope it helps. NCurse work 06:38, 9 October 2006 (UTC)"

So, this looks like a green light to me. Do you see anything wrong with using them? Istvan 07:06, 9 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi L, there is a page on the commons called "Hungarian Revolution of 1956" that contains all the ones I uploaded plus all the Newspaper front page Images. Could you please link your uploads there so we have them all in one spot? Dont worry about axeing Konev - Im not cyring for him. He was just a placeholder, and the only remarkable thing about the photo is how he resembles Rkosi. Istvan 19:00, 9 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am as frustrated about it as you - perhaps a statement "reminder: 1956 was a revolution, not a species of tree frog, nor a video game, nor someone's bus stop". Emotion is prerequisite to revolution. Washing it out is censorship. To force a moral equivalency upon unarmed demonstrators on one hand, and those who would fire upon them with heavy weapons on the other is both wrong and factually incorrect. To describe 56 without reference to emotion is like describing Monet without reference to colour. Perhaps there should be a new guideline "56:rev". How to overcome this? Every Hungarian must vote "strong support", lobby every wikipedian they know, and mention, in their own words, that 56 was a very bloody revolution and the strong emotions were a very real cause of it: the ÁVH *was* hated, people *did* dissapear under Rákosi (often on the flimsiest of pretenses), the phrase "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" *was* indeed used, and often. And to top it off, this is all mentioned in the referenced UN report that nobody seems to read. To ignore these is to ignore the event itself. Im preaching to the choir, I know... Istvan 04:36, 10 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hungary portal

I was wondering, would you be interested in working with me on Portal:Hungary? It's nice to see you love Hungary this much :) It is now updated every second week only, and I don't know how frequently are other portals updated, but I'm sure the popular portals are updated more often... Right now I'm the only maintainer of it, because every other Hungarian editor was just too happy to leave it to me :) but maybe the two of us could update it weekly. – Alensha ^talk 16:30, 7 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi,

It would be enough if you could contribute to the portal every two weeks, I would do it for the other 2 weeks, then it would have weekly updates, like most of the portals. Then we could also ask our very first Hungarian admin to help making that "currentweek" system, then we could make the selected articles in advance and it would update automatically and would help archiving the previous updates (I don't really know how that system works...)

About politics: I long decided it's not worth worrying about, I only vote at local elections and there I vote for the candidate who could do the most for the city, without caring about which party he belongs to... :D

– Alensha ^talk 17:33, 7 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I used to vote for Fidesz too but now they're allied with KDNP, a far too right-wing ultra-religious party, and in my opinion Fidesz managed to alienate many of its former supporters... now there are simply no good parties to vote for. >:-( – Alensha ^talk 18:30, 7 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They have to, because MSZP is allied with SZDSZ and together they have more voters than Fidesz, and Fidesz had to look for some party to be allied with. Now, at the local elections I haven't even seen "Fidesz candidates", only "Fidesz-KDNP candidates". I don't know much about politics but this should be forbidden that minor parties stick to the large ones and in the end they are the ones who decide the outcome of an election... like that anarchist SZDSZ would be nowhere without MSZP, KDNP would be nothing without Fidesz, and these alliances do nothing but keep these stupid small parties important. – Alensha ^talk 18:38, 7 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

and Fidesz was a liberal party at the beginning, and they're becoming more and more conservative. I'm too young to be conservative yet :D – Alensha ^talk 18:39, 7 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with that :) btw I guess on HuWiki we would already have been warned about all this politics talk; it's lucky that EnWiki admins don't keep an eye on everything :D – Alensha ^talk 18:43, 7 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My RfA

File:Nuvola apps kfm home.png

Thank you for participating in my RfA, which passed with a tally of 91/1/4. I can't express how much it means to me to become an administrator. I'll work even more and harder to become useful for the community. If you need a helping hand, don't hesitate to contact me. NCurse _work 15:39, 8 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome. :) Have you uploaded the images to Commons? What about FAC? I'm a reviewer of Wikipedia Release Version team, I can take a serious look at the article, when you plan to nominate it. NCurse _work 18:55, 9 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

FAC involvement

Hi! I rewritten my support vote, but I don't see why I would have to be an involved editor to say that it is great (and also seeing its original state I could say "it has become"). Anyway I didn't write on the FAC page that I was an involved editor as I didn't actually edit the article (not that I remember), I am proud that I found the Time cover for it and permission to use some newspaper covers (now on commons, that were'nt used as theye are in Hungarian, and thanks to you there are many, more informative pictures in the article), but I don't feel ashamed or anything because I didn't edit the article itself, as with no actual involvement in the events (maybe my grandparents), not seeing any films about it (and even if I have they still would have been fiction), not learning about it in school yet, not reading any books or reports about it, and with the Hungarian article (that I could have translated text from) wasn't in such a good shape, I just didn't feel that I could add anything to it apart from my moral support and technical suggestions (for ex. here). Hope you understand, and you don't see this as me rejecting my connection to this article by not stating that I am an involved editor in it, but as not stating a lie , though if you (really, really )feel that it wouldn't be stating a lie, I would really be a happy person "running" to the FAC page telling the whole world that I was an editor on that article.--Dami 12:01, 13 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Szervusz Lastochka, yes, its tilting our way. I hope the vote is soon, because Ive been "warned" to have all our AHF pics deleted from the commons. Do you know of a plan B? Either a different tag or hosting on the EnWiki itself? Ive put out some pleas for help, but alas.... It would really suck if those were yanked right before the vote. BTW, Paul keeps saying the UN doc ref doesnt work for him - it works for me, what about you? Istvan 02:07, 14 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WE'RE FA!!!!! pop the pezsgõ !!! lets get our nom up! Istvan 20:59, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for the barstar award. I appreciate it, and accept it with gratitude and humility, though I'm a latecomer to this effort. It is User:Istvan, and User:Ryanjo who have been laboring away at this article for a very long time. I'm glad they put it up for AID, or I wouldn't have noticed it. Congratulations to all!--Paul 22:40, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

FA for 23 October

Well we'd better get our nom up immediately. I notice some noms mention (in the nominating text) a requested date for feature. Since 23 October is the very next one to be chosen, I would suggest to put up Paul's version of the textbox, and a version of my text as the nom article (which includes the ref to 50th anniversary, bravest act, etc.) (please see NCurse's request to Raul654 - it worked) just keep it coolheaded. Would you like to do the honours this time? Paul? Ryanjo? First one gets it. I dont want to hog these things. If nobody has put something up in one hour, I will do it. Istvan 21:14, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hey KL, take a look at the queue now... :) Istvan 04:43, 19 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Barnstar of St. Stephen

Many thanks for the barnstar and kind words. Your enthusiasm, tact and wit comes through in the words of Hungarian Revolution of 1956. Regards, Ryanjo 00:07, 16 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And thank you from me too! That was quite a coordinated effort! To have made so much progress with so little conflict is remarkable (lets all remember the lessons of Muhi and not celebrate too early) KL, your passion, brains and drive have been decisive in our success. Istvan 01:11, 16 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Userboxes

Your boxes are nice too :) Why don't you put them in Babelbox templates so that they will be under each other, not scattered around on the page? :) – Alensha ^talk 19:02, 16 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

just like you did with the language boxes. check the source of my userbox page to see. :) – Alensha ^talk 19:12, 16 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Trolling

Please first take it easy. :) It happens really often in wiki. Second, I try to join the debate by sending a message to the Jacob Peter user. Hope it helps. Anyway this kind of editing (not vandalism) must always be handled by community dynamics. You have to explain why he is wrong with his edits. Then if he continues, you can contact other admins. That's the best way to walk on. NCurse _work 06:03, 17 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Budapest

This might be a better place for this kind of talk: You might be right in that that the police is a bit harsh, but from here its just a POV:

the protesters didn't get permission for protesting anywhere else but the Kossuth square so after leaving it you might argue that the police had the right to "read the riot act" ,also after being chased out of K. square they could have just gone home or they had the right to protest on the streets
when this all started there were about 200 injured policemen (about two weeks ago) that has led them to be a bit more radical
also one could argue that order has to be kept (see Death of a president film, how the American police deals with protesters)
also I would argue that whatever Gyurgyáncs have commited or might have commited or didn't commit isn't reason good enough to disturb the commemoration events

Anyway the point is that Hungary is a bit divided now, and things won't get better in my opinion if either radical change doesn't happen (MDF or MIÉP winning an election) or the protesters won't get bored or too cold on the streets. Also if you want to get a full picture see these pictures:

http://index.hu/gal?dir=0610/belfold/lefoglalt/ - weapons found in Kossuth square after protesters left (some are camping equipment (that can be used as weapons, not too safe near the delegations), but some are undenyable weapons)
http://index.hu/gal?dir=0610/belfold/okt23_3/ - people shot by rubber bullets and such
http://index.hu/politika/belfold/2006/elkurtuk/galeriak/ various other pictures

--Dami 18:56, 23 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Anyway, If you'd like I could provide you with semi-real time commentary based on Index.hu-s reporting if you'd like.--Dami 19:01, 23 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't think you were, I was just trying to illustrate that it can be seen from two sides, and neither is an utopistic view (the people are rioting for truth vs. order and peace is kept according to the rules of democracy). I mentioned Miép as earlier Csurka(their leader) said that both Gyurcsány and Orbán should leave the political palette.

About this whole thing I'm just sad, as it totally ruins Hungarys reputation in the sense that it has been peaceful and stabil in the region... also I'm not a fan of Gyurcsánys "packet" but these protest also have a negative effect on the economy and I fear this will make things worse.--Dami 19:20, 23 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Mancs

Yes, I know :( We already added the info to the articles (I learned about his death in Hungarian Wkipedia...) – Alensha ^talk 20:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

his statue in the downtown is surrounded by candles... people loved him so much. – Alensha ^talk 16:13, 27 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

thanks you

dear friend, nice to find some nice people in wikipedia, my work in hungarian and slovak wikipedia is a lot easier. for slovak/serbian problem is necessary to speak/read hungarian, but I did some achievment and evereone can read my opinion at discussion site. --Mt7 10:22, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi!

Hi! Thanks for your words, I didn't know, that I have to deal with some real brickheads here, I thought it is a speciality of smaller wikis, like huwiki... see example here. PS: I made that kind-of-userbox on huwiki what you have on yr userpage's upper right corner, but linked to the article instead of the flag. (but at least, the line: 1956-2006. 50 éve - and the flag - remained from it :) )--VinceB 13:41, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your lines again :) Silly thing that I'm usually better informed than them :) Oh, I had to dea with a guy, who is concerned, that the Kingdom of Hungary was an apartheid system (with a hungarian supremacy) read this - No comment. Only going through the maps, you can find tons of mistakes (or some intresting/weird stuff), like showing Budapest (instead of separated Pest and Buda) on "pre-1873" maps, or showing Bratislava instead of Pressburg on "pre-1919" maps, to point some obvious ones. I've just started a (seems to be long long long) journey right now, to adjust the contents of these pages to the ~~cruel world outside~~ reality. Main problem is that most of the, let me say bullshit, what can be found in hu-related history articles are derivered from this article, and I'm not an expert in ethinc stuff and not even was intrested in it before, just history. If you know some users here, who are well informed, please, let me know. Thanks!

PS: I took the flag off on nov 4. (for some reason) --Vince ^{hey, yo! :-)} 14:33, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, you're absolutely right! (As I see, I'm not the first one, who got this...umm..."not nice"...umm..."welcoming" from them) Do you (we) have any new project(s) since the 56 article? Maybe I can help too. Take care, regards --Vince ^{hey, yo! :-)} 15:37, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Borat

Hey...I similarly asked for semi-protection for the Nursultan Nazarbayev article, and it was also denied. I don't understand why they need mass, prolonged vandalism to protect it? I think all wikipedia articles should be semi-protected, or at least the vast majority of them. Oh well. Thanks for trying again.--Thomas.macmillan 19:04, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would also like to thank you for trying to get this protected. I cannot figure out why the request was denied. Thanks anyway, KazakhPol 01:23, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Puskás

Hi KL, I nicked your userbox for Puskás öcsi - I didnt think you would mind (sincerest form of flattery and all...) normally I dont "do" userboxes, but this is such an exception.... thanks. István 05:30, 18 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

signature test

I just tried "Magyarizing" my unusually Russian signature, here's to see if it works... K. Lastochka 03:12, 20 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, nope. let's try again...K. Lástocska 03:13, 20 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There we go!

D'oh....and it takes me this long to realize that if I'm gonna Magyarize, I need to fully Magyarize--which means adding that "z" I forgot....K. Lásztocska 17:54, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

to heck with accuracy. That looked stupid. K. Lástocska 20:22, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, but now I don't know what to do! It looks weird with the Z...but I have immense respect and love for the Magyar language...if anyone is reading this and cares to offer an opinion one way or the other, I'd be glad to hear it. KL

Hungarians

No, I did not said that Hungarians do not exist as a nation. There is no doubt that Hungarians as a nation exist, but I only speak about origin of the Hungarians, which is mostly Slavic. If you do not trust to me, then trust to this: http://www.le.ac.uk/genetics/maj4/EuropeMap+Tree.jpg I am not talking here from my head, by I speak what I saw in sources. That map for example show that Hungarians are not different at all from Poles and Ukrainians. And regarding those Hungarians who "look sort of Asiatic", that is called a mestizo (i.e. half European-half Asian), but even among them you have a Slavic half. :) However, according to this genetic map, number of such "mestizo Hungarians" is really not a large one. Regarding racism, the racists claim that their own race is better than other race. Did I claimed something like that? No, I did not. What I said is that Hungarians and Slavs belong to SAME race and I never said that one race is better than another. So, how can that be a racism? And Serbs do have much Illyrian and Thracian blood of course, did I ever said something different? Read all my posts on all talk pages and then make conclusion. Regarding statement that "Hungarians are not Hungarians", I did not meant that Hungarians today are not a nation, but that they are not Hungarians according to the definition what was one Hungarian 1000 years ago. I am not native English speaker, so I might not always express my thoughts in English in proper manner. PANONIAN (talk) 02:27, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jaj, csak nem megint evvel a teljesen rossz genetikai mappával jön... már megmagyaráztam neki, hogy miért egy nagy marhaság, de úgy látszik nem értette meg. Például, ha jól megnézed a térképet, látod hogy a Norvégoknak ugyanolyan genetikája van mint a Macedónoknak meg a Cseheknek (???) :). Nem tudom hogy mennyire profik azok akik csinálták, de pld. nem áll sehol, hogy eggyáltalán milyen embereket és hol (ez nagyon fontos lenne) teszteltek. Én is tudnék 10 embert tesztelni, de az erdemény akkor sem mondana semmit. --Öcsi 16:38, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"What I said is that Hungarians and Slavs belong to SAME race and I never said that one race is better than another." Hey, comedian, you are joking again. Bruhahaha! --Öcsi 16:40, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've given a definition of 1000-years-old-hungarians to you on Talk: Sajan (village), and I would estimate that 66% (that's 2/3) of today's hungarians look very similar to one of the two groups. --Öcsi 16:43, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Do you know which kind of people use expressions like "race"; yes, I think you are guessing right. Öcsi

And by the way, I did not saw you here much before, so I assume that you are relativelly new user (I might be wrong), but you may notice that my statements there were simply answer to some Hungarian users here, who for a long time trying to "prove" that entire Central Europe is "ancient Hungarian land". So, I really do not care from where Hungarians came, but I only showed to them that they are in big delusion about some things. PANONIAN (talk) 02:32, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Isn't EVERY nation/ethnic group/people different now than they were 1000 years ago?"

But that was exactly my point there: those Hungarian users that I mentioned claim that Magyars today are same as they were 1000 years ago and that entire Central Europe belong to them. Regarding the Slavic origin of the Hungarians, that do not refer to origin of those Hungarians from 1000 AD, but to origin of present-day Hungarians, that are, according to many sources, rather descendants of Pannonian Slavs than of Hungarians that settled here under Arpad. Also, the present-day Hungarian language have many Slavic words and Hungarian folk music in Vojvodina have many similarities with Serbian one. Regarding those namers, Attila is not Magyar, but Hunnic name, while Vajk could be of Slavic origin (according to one source it is Magyarized version of Slavic name Vuk ("wolf"), and there are many Serbs with name Vuk). So, you again did not understood what I said because I did not claimed that original Hungarians are of Slavic origin, but only present-day Hungarians. And yes, six months that you are here is not a long period by my opinion, but you should look to see more about edits of some users like Bendeguz, fz22, Osci, HunTheGoat, VinceB, etc, and then you will have a full picture about what I speak here. PANONIAN (talk) 03:57, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You are the one here, who is talking about Greater Hungary and Greater Serbia and editing ambiguous maps. --Öcsi 16:47, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And "Vajk" has nothing to do with "Vuk". --Öcsi 16:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, regarding sources, I showed you map about genetic origin of the modern Hungarians, it is from the United Kingdom source, so I do not see why it should not be accurate. I also have some books in Serbian about this, but I do not think that these books could be usefull to you. And regarding these Hungarian editors from the list, we have these arguments not for months but for years already, so if you have few years to spend here, you can start to argue too. :)) PANONIAN (talk) 04:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

1. There are plenty of Hungarians who look sort of Asiatic, I've seen some. They don't look like the Khanty, but they don't look entirely Slavic either.

2. Even though it is obvious that the original, Asiatic Magyar tribes have in the past 1000 years intermarried and had children with various Slavic peoples from the region, thereby ending up looking more "European", that doesn't mean that "the Hungarians are not Hungarians at all." Such an argument is at best silly and at worst downright racist. It smells of ugly theories of "racial purity" that have terrorized the world for centuries. I'm sure even the Serbs have some "foreign" blood in them. Surely the current Hungarians are somewhat different from the original Hungarians that went with Arpad into the Carpathian basin a millenium ago, but do NOT tell me that "the Hungarians are not Hungarians." As long as we have our language, our stories, our music, our...interesting national character :), and our culture in general, the Hungarians ARE still "real" Hungarians. K. Lástocska 01:48, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Na, én is pont ugyanezt mondom neki, és mi a válasz: Vagy az hogy egy irredenta nagy-magyarországos vagyok, vagy félrebeszél és ma´s témát kezd. Olvasd csak el a Talk: Sajan (village) elsö részét.--Öcsi 17:02, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hey! Quit arguing on MY talk page, take the fight to your own! :)K. Lástocska 02:16, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bibó again

The absolutely right man for you is User:OrbitOne. Please contact him, he'll surely be able to help. NCurs e _work 06:43, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

From another KL

Hi there Lástocska (am I right in guessing – using the interwiki on this page – that your name actually means a kind of swallow, or fecske?), I don't use the User talk namespace too much but a few things came to my mind recently that I want to tell you:

"Puskás Öcsi" should be written with a capital Ö, since "Öcsi" is used as a nickname in place of his given name "Ferenc". Do please fix that. (I know it's a wiki, but I somehow don't like the idea of editing other people's user pages or comments.)
I'm not sure you noticed that it was me who put up the "Special Moments" article on AfD but if you did, I don't quite know what to think about your comment on the noticeboard the other day... you hopefully didn't mean what it looks like it's saying. Anyways, I hope I'll be able to enter the discussion there later today.

Have a nice day & thanks for your involvement into Hungarian topics,

K issL 11:41, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Hungary portal, and problem articles

Szia! No problem, I haven't had any time for the portal either, so I can't blame others for not having time for it :) btw it's not hard to edit portals, that's what the small "edit" links are for in the different sections :) I just started a new portal for my hometown, it is kind of a vanity project, but I've always planned to do so :) If you want to try and update the Hungary portal, the next update will be due around 15th Dec (since I promised when I took over the portal that it'll be updated at least twice a month...)

I've seen the list of problem articles too, but those subjects are bound to lead to big nationalistic wars and I don't really like being involved in those... I'm sure the Polish Wikipedians would be nice to us, Polish people generally like Hungarians :) and theirs is a large Wikipedia community (plwiki is among the 10 largest WPs if I remember well). They could be of help but it shouldn't look like a Polish-Hungarian alliance against the Slovak-Serbian alliance. :)

– Alensha ^talk 20:29, 2 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There aren't many Czechs around here, I've noticed that too. Will you ask the Poles for help? I don't really know where do we need help right now; haven't been following the problem artices for a while. (btw I like Poland too, I have some Polish ancestry :) – Alensha ^talk 21:24, 2 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it's really my birthday :) Thanks! (my Miskolc portal was kind of a wiki-gift to myself, I planned to start it today :) – Alensha ^talk 22:01, 2 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Liszt

~~Um…I have a book of music that says the place he was born isn't in Austria or Romania: Raiding??? I thought that place mentioned in the article was the place he was born, but now I'm confused…?~~ — $PЯINGrαgђ Always loyal! 23:25, 3 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Un-confused; Raiding is in Austria. — $PЯINGrαgђ Always loyal! 23:26, 3 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

yeah, isn't Central European geography fun! :) K. Lástocska 00:09, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's for sure…the one place where my knowledge is weak. <shakes head> :P — $PЯINGrαgђ Always loyal! 00:31, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't help that everything's changed its name at least five times and belonged to about eight thousand different countries/kingdoms. We still haven't figured it all out! :) K. Lástocska 00:44, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Independence and Foundation

(sounds like Asimov, hmm?) Your textbox edit works just fine. Dont feel you need to apologise for anything here, those Central Europe pages are sometimes short of diplomats. István 21:46, 4 December 2006 (UTC) Thank you for the kind words István 13:49, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

RfA...

Thank you. I must say, I thought long and hard about leaving you a message, but again, as "advertising" appears to be frowned upon, I resisted. However, I will let you know next time. By the way, are we ready to do anything new with the '56 Revolution article? I've still got a few ideas kicking around, and then there's that dormant template... Biruitorul 01:11, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A section on events outside Budapest was indeed one of my desiderata and fortunately, we still have the raw text here. Time permitting, I'll convert that into article format within a few days/weeks. I just noticed we make no mention of the Suez Crisis - the fact that it happened during the Revolution is a pretty big deal because it distracted the West and allowed the USSR to intervene. I also think we should have something on historical interpretations (maybe in a separate article) - why did it happen? What did they want to do? We don't truly know, but the speculation is interesting and, provided we find proper citation, could be included. Finally, I agree on the need for more discussion of repercussions. We do give a fairly good overview in the "Aftermath" section, but more is evidently needed. For instance, I've been planning something on the simultaneous student protests in Romania (thousands of both nationalities arrested and 24 eventually executed) - since the materials are mostly in Romanian, I'll do the bulk of the work on that one. So, in sum, there's a lot to do, but there's a lot else going on in our lives; hopefully by early January we'll see some results. Biruitorul 04:11, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

memo to myself...

Found a good link to a Hungarian history database, figured I'd put it here before I forgot it. :) KL The Library of Congress >> Especially for Researchers >> Research Centers >> Hungary

Just be aware that it dates to September 1989 - right before some pretty important stuff.... István 04:34, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks--looks pretty good for earlier things though. :) K. Lástocska 16:43, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ghirlaphobia

Your accusations of "the large amounts of accusations of extremism, nationalism, trollism and other nasty things coming from Ghirla" are taken seriously. Welcome to the ranks of Ghirlaphobes. --Ghirla ^-трёп- 08:03, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you

Thank you for your kind comments on my RfC. And yes, welcome to the ranks of those who have dared to criticize Ghirla. You will know no peace... :> PS. Ghirla has a custom of reverting 99% of critical comments from his talk page, I suggest you reply to him here if you want your comment to be visible.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 18:53, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a 'Polish-Russian war', as much as Ghirla is trying to make it look like one; there are many 'eastern' editors who are perfectly reasonable; I hope we will hear from them soon. As for I'm beginning to think I shouldn't have said anything - do remember: The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 20:31, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am actually partially sorry to have involved anybody in this. Wiki is my hobby, it usually relaxes me - but Wiki politics is not my idea of 'fun', and this particular conflict is honestly the worst experience I have had in many, many months. Something must be done to solve this, but I have no idea what. Hopefully some people at this RfC seem to have an idea (mediation? again? I would try it...). Anyway, I posted a loooong answer of many issues raised by several users on talk. If this doesn't show the people the root of the problem, well, I am running out of options. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 21:42, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This message is what the RFC is about. Piotrus, please look at your contributions and estimate how much of them are "requests for input", "Ghirlandajo said... so I search for your opinion", "I know that you have had conflicts with Ghirla, so please comments on his latest outburst...", "thanks for reporting on Ghirla's actions", etc, etc. I don't how others feel in such situations, but I regards such actions as objectionable and incivil. How many Russian editors did you ask to comment? I suspect that zero. Can you name a single instance when I acted this way? --Ghirla ^-трёп- 17:10, 9 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Gentlemen, please do not use MY talk page for YOUR arguments.K. Lástocska 17:28, 9 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's what they are there for :) Seriously, WP:CABAL#On_Wikipedia_and_the_Cabal sais it all, and if some people still use - and believe - the cabal arguments, well, that's only to be expected; in the end, this is little different from other conspiracy theories out there. As for RfC, I believe that the best thing that can happen is if more people see it and comment. The number of biased users is tiny, but of course such groups will tend to gather around such threads. If others learn about them, the vast neutral and fair majority will silence them - and we already are begining to see this. Thus I am not suprised some users try to ironically limit the number of people who learn about this RfC - if they can get only a few people to comment, they win, if many come, they will loose... so once again, thank you for your comments. If you want, you can continue to take part in the discussions or ask others to comment, but you have already done a lot. Thank you again, --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 03:30, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I don't think he has much of a point, but I apologized for the one offensive remark I can think of. In the end, for each slight I might have done - after being provoked by his much more incivil comments - he has done hundreds. It would be interesting to see if he will not admit I have a point, or apologize. That would be a first.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 23:38, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Portal

Looks good. I knew you'll find it easier than you thought :) Usually the subjects of the featured article and the featured picture are not related (b/c the aim of the portal is to cover a wide range of topics), but on special occasions like this one they can be. Congratulations on your first portal-update! – Alensha ^talk 16:04, 9 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Your joke

Thank you for your apology, which was very nice of you, but it really wasn't necessary. "Impale" does indeed bring up instant associations with Vlad, especially internationally. I for one am not part of the ever-increasing group of individuals who takes "offense" at the drop of a hat. If someone insults Romania or expresses anti-Romanian sentiments (which you didn't), I use reason and logic to try and bring him round to what I see as a more enlightened position; I don't walk away in feigned disgust. And if someone is persistently anti-Romanian, I don't begrudge him the right to hold that opinion; I may even be his friend. For, though I am a nationalist/patriot, I realize that all nations are but temporary creations of man (some more enduring than others), one day set to be swept away entirely. So if you were so inclined, you could hurl all the insults you wanted to at my people; I wouldn't think the less of you, particularly because the Transylvania issue is still a painful one for many Hungarians. Biruitorul 23:13, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

July, August... I'll cool off for a while (wrong season for that metaphor, but you get the idea). Biruitorul 23:24, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

MedCab request

Hello! I'm from the cabal which doesn't exist...You have done a good thing by attempting to bring a mediator into the fold here. However, I looked into the case more deeply, and it's probably beyond the scope of all but the most patient and tactful mediators. I used to think that was me, but I got sucked into a brutal edit war myself and have pretty much resigned myself to light-duty caseloads for a while. Most often, just waiting will allow this thingto blow over. THese two obviously HATE each other, however. I see this all the time. Editors are more concerned with fighting each other's POV and never actually reach a consensus, and stop actually caring about what Wikipedia is all about. As long as this argument doesn't spill over into article content, I wouldn't worry about it. Hopefully, given time, they will cool off. I'm not going to take your case, but I'll sign on as a mediator and keep my eye on the dispute. If nothing else, I may be able to help cool these guys down, even if I can't make them agree on anything. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Antimatter---talk--- 23:16, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for trying. In the end, AbCom seems like the last best hopewe have...--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 13:06, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your kind words

Thank you very much for your cookie and even more for your kind words! I wish more editors were like you. You certainly do not need to apologize for the behavior of other users. You are one of the most civil editors I have had the pleasure to meet here. Your warm comments and attempts to mediate make Wikipedia a better place to work for everyone around you. That is very precious. Unfortunately, I started to believe that the users of your kind will be always in minority. I just do not know if it is worth contributing if national myths are valued more than knowledge and the only recognition for your work is harassment. Anyway, köszönöm very much again:-) Tankred 23:50, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

XMAS gift

Lots of good intentions flying around, but not much in the way of useful stuff. Here is a nice template I found to organize your ever-growing collections of awards :) --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 14:36, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Salad'o'meter™
	put barnstars here (no thumb or direction)
	n00b	involved	been around	veteran	seen it all	older than the Cabal itself

Your Wiki Suicide

"I may have essentially commited Wiki-suicide here, because I am certain that now I too will endure attacks, ad hominems, name-calling, accusations of cabalism, and perhaps vandalism."

Merry Christmas, you Nagyite chandelier! ;-) István 21:58, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

userpage editing, etc.

Ah, and I was wondering how to say Merry XMAS in Hungarian ;p I fixed (hopefully) the problem with your userpage, let me know if there are any other issues you'd like to see. Being a vane person as you can see my userpage and talk page are stuffed with all kinds of gadgets - and so I had to learn how to make them like each other (hey, I even got a Barnstar for that) - so I think I can do some nas... nice, I mean, things to your userpage too, if you wish :) --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 22:34, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Check User:Piotrus/Sandbox/Userpage design project. Placeholders can be deleted, commented out or replaced by anything you want, there are basically 10 'puzzles' to place wherever you want. Let me know if you like it :) --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 23:58, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'd strongly suggest you chose a table layout - like the one in my sandox, or my userpage or one of others used. With lots of graphical elements, table layouts are much better...--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 11:41, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WP:RFAR

Ghirla and Piotr have agreed to try mediation with me. JzG who initiated the arbitration request has asked the committee to give this a chance to work. If you'd like to provide input your comments are welocme at User talk:Durova/Mediation/Input. I'd appreciate if you'd append your comment at the arbitration request to allow mediation unless you really want the formal case to go forward. Durova^Charge! 23:10, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, I thought your statement was very well written - it's not common to see a frank honest piece like that on ArbCom. IMHO it is my better then the new one, which doesn't really say as much :( --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 20:21, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I believe that an important reason for our progress is the pressure of RfArb, and the more people certify various claims, the more likely it is that parties who refused to accept them will have no choice but to agree with the majority. For example, Ghirla never in the past had admited that he was uncivil, what we are seeing now is the 'first'. Similarly, if people think I have abused the admin powers, nothing but a large amount of them coming out and saying this will convince me I had done so. Therefore sometimes it is necessary to say the 'ugly truth' - because hushing it up and being polite and non-commital has not worked in the past for either one of us. Btw, when you copy the page from my sandbox design, please blank it (to erase the categories). I am glad you like it!--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 20:36, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re:Ghirla left

Wouldn't be the first time ([1], [2], [3]...), so I am inclined not to treat such annoucements seriously. ATM I don't see what could have caused such reaction from him - just a few posts ago he admited at ArbCom that we are making progress. I guess this story wouldn't end that easily, though (note that ArbCom request has been accepted by 4 ArbComers, perhaps this annoyed him - I am not sure what he means by his statement about users leaving, though). Anyway, judging by my experience, he will be back, especially as he just wrote about a break, not leaving like last time (which lasted the entire week or so anyway).--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 13:06, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

'I told you so :) --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 23:01, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

LOL--I guess that's one thing he and I have in common, we stink at taking wikibreaks. :) K. Lástocska 23:44, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Piotrus-Ghirla

Hello,

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Piotrus-Ghirla. Please add any evidence you may wish the arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Piotrus-Ghirla/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Piotrus-Ghirla/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, --Srikeit 05:33, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Weird vandal: reply

Köszönöm és a legjobbakat neked is. :) It's really funny, I'll watch this user's contributions. But it seems that he has already raised the attention of other admins. Sorry for the late reply, I had an exam, but I'm back in action. :) NCurs e _work 20:24, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hungarian Culture Project - Puskás, then Musicians?

Hi KL, arent you a musician? A good place to start would be with the more fameous of Hungarian musical types - Bártok, Kodály, Liszt are all in fairly good shape, have much longer HuWiki articles (i.e. we could bring material over) and would make pretty good FAC after some work. Soundbytes might be very applicable here as well (I suppose Im on an auditory kick today) and I would certainly help. Mind you, I think Puskás should come first, but as long as we're looking for a place to start, whaddaya say? István 17:31, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Vandal tags

Thank you for reverting vandalism on Wikipedia!

Be sure to put warning tags on the vandal's user talk page (such as {{subst:test}}, {{subst:test2}}, {{subst:test3}}, {{subst:test4}}). Add each of these tags on the vandal's talk page, in sequential order, after each instance of vandalism. Adding warnings to the talk page assists administrators in determining whether or not the user should be blocked. If the user continues to vandalize pages after you add the {{subst:test4}} tag, request administrator assistance at Request for Intervention. Again, thank you for helping to make Wikipedia better. --Kralizec! (talk) 23:12, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re:national culture wikiprojects

Well, my advice is - just write articles :) --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 21:52, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Really, it is. I will try not to write a large essay about such projects; I like them, but they do little but provide a forum for discussion and sometimes help organize stuff like categories or WP:1.0 assessment stuff. Word of warning: don't try to create more then one forum for discussion - this is why Wikipedia:WikiProject Poland redirects to WP:PWNB - we simply don't have enough editors to support to discusson threads. And since we have so few editors, even our subprojects like Wikipedia:WikiProject History of Poland in fact are inactive, with all editors channeled to the one single forum.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 15:05, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks :)

Just wanted to say hi and thanks for all the hard work you've been putting into the Liszt article lately. I'm quite a big fan of his and read as many books as I can get my hands on about him lol, unfortunately I don't always have the time to put as much work into the article as I'd like to. Just so you know the work you're doing isn't going unappreciated, thanks! Especially with all this nonsense about him being slovak... M A Mason 16:27, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Vojvodina

Sorry for not in English, but I'm tired. Nem hinném, hogy gondot jelentene. Ha ez egy userlapon lenne, akkor ugranék, de éppen arról beszél, a változtatásával még óv is. Sztem erre kár lenne egy adminnak érdemben reagálnia. Ha másként gondolod, kérlek szólj. NCurs e _work 20:30, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

he basically said that it is too irrelevant to make a big issue out of it; if it was on a user page, he'd do something about it, but it's just Panonian speaking about that he's trying to protect Hungarians with this deletion. But if you have a different opinion, just tell him. – Alensha ^talk 17:16, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, that's what I thought, just wanted to make sure. köszönöm nagyon szépen for your help! :) K. Lásztocska 19:49, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Most látom, frissítetted a magyar portált? :) ügyes vagy! (I'm quite busy now in HuWiki and real life, only managed to update the Miskolc portal this month...) – Alensha ^talk 20:19, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for my last message, I'll always write in English. Anyway, I absolutely agree with your last reply. NCurs e _work 06:49, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I woner about "unrelated links" why?

these uprisings directly related, if you are read what there written —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Oscar Jet (talk • contribs) 23:25, 3 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

They are only related in that they were all uprisings against the Soviet Union, but there was no cause-and-effect relationship, it's not like the Hungarian revolution triggered those other two. We can't put in links to all the articles about all other uprisings, it's unnecessary and wastes space. K. Lásztocska 23:30, 3 January 2007 (UTC) Yes, I see, probably you are right, especially the page is full --Oscar Jet 23:45, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Poem Project

Just a kind note, but the poem isn't yours, and the moral integrity and actions of the charectors in the poem are the collective item of all it's writers, if you would like to argue the charector that is fine, but please remember that everyone can add to it and change the charector. --[[User:Yossi842| Yossi842]] 19:58, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Our 15 minutes of anonymous fame

Nice catch about the blog mentioning the 56 article. Im sure you agree, it feels good to see some explicit recognition, after all that work we put in, and to think - this was posted on 10 October, well before the article hit top form, much less before it went frontpage on 23 October! How did you find this? Nice catch! I just posted a reply. István 03:55, 6 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Very good indeed! István 05:12, 6 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wow...

Just checked the blog you mentioned to István. It feels good to see your work being appreciated :)

I remember the day when Imre Nagy was reburied, on June 16th 1989. My family and me were in Kőszeg visiting my mother's family; 16th was the day we planned to go home, and Dad was worried that we have to drive through Budapest and maybe there would be demonstrations. I was 8 and a half years old, didn't understand much of the historical significance of the event, and found it funny that the guy being reburied has the same name as one of my schoolmates (who was later teased by lots of us for "his" burial making headlines :) (anyway... this was just a small tidbit of how it all looked to me as a child :)

I'm gonna "steal" lots of your userboxes but right now Wikipedia is expreriencing difficulties again... HuWiki can't even be edited today, here in EnWiki the situation is somewhat better. Funny that servers always do this during fundraising campaigns, as if they wanted to demonstrate that Wikimedia needs that money very bad. :)

Anyway, your user page is way more informative now that it was last time I checked it. It's nice what you wrote about your role as a Wiki-diplomat (I'm trying to play the same role in HuWiki :) I never knew you were female. Your interest in football implied that you were a guy but then your "little bird" user name didn't – but of course, these thoughts were based on gender stereotypes, which one must get rid of quickly in this online world where one meets all kinds of interesting people :)

If you'd like to read something in Hungarian to exercise the language, may I recommend the touching anecdote one of our editors posted on the talk page of the Hungarian version of the Puskás article? It's under the title Anekdota on the talk page. It's very nice and I think you'd love it. If you don't understand some of the expressions, I'll help.

Pusztalakó – I was wondering whether you'll notice it :D You know NCurse lives in Debrecen in the big, boring puszta, and there's a long-standing rivalry between our cities because they aren't smart enough to recognize the superiority of Miskolc :)) (no, there's no similar word for people from Miskolc, at least nothing that can be mentioned in polite society... :)

Best of luck with your auditions!

– Alensha ^talk 15:03, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

p.s.: Sorry for this long long long message. I'm frustrated that Wiki is this slow and a graphomaniac like me must type something all the time.)

Puskás on Puskás

A seller on British eBay has the book. [4] 10 GBP plus 6 for shipping; get it fast if it isn't too expensive.

(damn. I just broke my oath that I won't even think of any eBay sites until my next paycheck.)

It would be nice to get the article featured. I'd help too but my knowledge on anything sport-related is extremely limited. I'll notify the other Hungarians, maybe they can help.

About Liszt: His article states that he was Hungarian; this is what really counts, not the lists of Austrians :)

The pusztalakó has a great sense of humor, I'm sure he doesn't mind this nickname. :) Are you planning to visit Hungary in the near future? We plan to have a Wikipedia meetup in Kassa (okay, that's not exactly in Hungary, but let's be irredentists for a short while :)

– Alensha ^talk 16:32, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Redeeming Qualities, you ask?...

Short answer: I wouldn't say there aren't.

Long answer: ooooh...let me count the ways.....Firstly, we have produced per capita the highest number of Nobel laureates. Apropos, in maths, Hungarian kids repeatedly score top in Europe, and third only behind Japanese and Korean kids on those international mathematics tests.

Hungarian sense of humour is delightfully subtle and razor-sharp, at least as distinctive as that of the English (too bad nobody else can understand it).

Hungarian is a beautifully lyrical language. Even though just about everyone on this planet attests that *their* native language is the most "expressive", Hungarian poetry certainly punches far above its weight, having produced far more and better works than any other nation of 15 Millions. As a knock-on, Hungary has given the world more than its share of musical treasures (I know you dont need elaboration here). This includes not just "high culture" but also the continuum of magyarnóta-klezmer-gypsy music (which is arguably the most passionate on earth). Hungarian radio (unlike say German or Dutch) plays mostly home-grown contemporary music, and unlike much of Europe, it's actually pretty good (mostly). Some Hungarian lyricists/musicians would be famous worldwide if others could understand them. (e.g. Cseh Tamás)

Hungarian food is objectively in Europe's top rank - (in taste, not health - which is a different story) typical of catholic cultures' taking their food very seriously, Hungarian cuisine is universally recognised in Europe and many Europeans travel there mostly for the food (and the drinks). Similarly, Hungarians are among Europe's most compulsively hospitable people (something Anglophones could learn from) Just tour Hungary and its neighbours in the same trip, and see for yourself. Indeed, so long as Hungarians around you know that you are a foreigner, they will be pleasantly helpful with you (something Francophones could learn from) and anyone exploiting or making trouble for you would immediately be regarded as a low-life (or a taxi driver) (or a BKV tickets inspector).

And...I must admit...Hungarian women are arguably the best in the world (except for the overly neurotic ones). They are top drawer in attractiveness, temprament, and are quite competent in the art of being feminine. This is, safe to say, also a pan-European opinion, not just mine.

There are perhaps a thousand reasons Hungarians are different, special, and sometimes even better at some things but in the end one can say that, yes, there do exist redeeming qualities. István 01:38, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Have to disagree on the contemporary music part... the last time Hungary had good pop music was in the 80s (now that was what I call music), but since then it deteriorated into something awful. Listening to any radio it seems that it tries to imitate British and American music (lots of the time they "cover" foreign songs, which is basically just a nicer word for stealing) and all the lyrics are full of clichés. I'm very disappointed of Hungarian pop music, the only good music I can think of is the music by the group NOX, which doesn't try to imitate foreign music, but reaches back to the roots of real Hungarian music (they sing modernized folk songs, etc.)

And actually there is a law that says every radio station must play Hungarian songs in a certain percent of their air time (around 20%, I'm not sure), otherwise no one would request these songs on radio. It's true that almost every album in the top40 is a Hungarian one, but that's because of the elatively high price of CDs here – almost everyone I know downloads music from the Internet, and CDs are bought only by those who are too stupid to use a computer, and their taste is not the most refined...

Hungarian women: I'd take Istvan's opinion as a compliment if I wasn't afraid that my anxiety disorder puts me in the "overly neurotic" category :D

– Alensha ^talk 17:46, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, in true wikipedia fashion, I must zealously defend my position and preface with the disclaimer that on second reading, my above crie de coer seems embarrassingly sappy - (KL: this is cardinal sin in Hungary). Alensha, you describe a sad trend gripping the entire world. I compare the H scene with the rest of Europe. Latin Europe also plays mostly homegrown music (French is also pretty good) but Germanic Europe plays mostly US/UK, or dismally formulaic synthesised Bierzeltmusik with lots of jabber in between. I base my H observation mostly on the period from the twilight of socialism to the mid-90s when there were several good artists getting plenty of air time. If its worse now (I dont argue that it isnt), then you are comparing it to the previous Hungarian standard, not the current European (or better "Western" one). Techno-synth-(c)rap rákzene knows no culture and is equally bad all over the world. Even America and UK are getting too stale, and the world is, IMHO, stuck waiting for a new genre to be born, something as fundamentally revolutionary as rock-and-roll was in the 50s - some fresh air to overthrow what needs overthrowing. It will probably happen via MP3 over the internet. and no, I don't read you as being "overly neurotic" at all, but a quite pleasant and good wikipedian István 18:33, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, there's always room for cris de coeur, at least if you're stuck in the Romantic era like me. :) It may have been sappy, but I found it rather touching, and definitely helped me get out of a rotten mood/long dark night of the magyar soul. :) As for the global pop music disaster, I agree 110% with you guys that something new has to come along to sweep away the crap. I like to think that it will be a revival of folk music, but that probably won't happen. Then again, you never know...look at the táncház movement, I sure wouldn't have predicted that one. (How's it doing btw? Do people still dance the old dances in Budapest? I have GOT to get over there...) K. Lásztocska 23:20, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alensha, that's because I'm the neurotic one around here--the one that gets thrown into existential despair by stories about the stupid Curse of Turan and can't take a proper wikibreak... :) K. Lásztocska 02:23, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"stuck waiting for a new genre to be born, something as fundamentally revolutionary as rock-and-roll was in the 50s - some fresh air to overthrow what needs overthrowing." István put it better than I could have.

"It will probably happen via MP3 over the internet." Another possible source is world music. Recently it's fashionable to put world music samples into pop and r&b (Truth Hurts's Addictive is one example), and I love it. – Alensha ^talk 21:00, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Curse of the Turan

Don't get superstitious....its bad luck. István 02:40, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Auditions

Kalappal! István 06:46, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Köszönöm! :) K. Lásztocska 01:48, 18 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

én is szurkolok :) írd majd meg nekünk, hogy sikerült!

I've just left a long rant on Viktor Orbán's talk page... I should have known that all the gods will strike down upon me if I break the resolution I made after the last parlamentary elections, (about not talking about politics), 'cause it just makes me annoyed >:-( – Alensha ^talk 21:00, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Next time, try being a little bolder, 'kay? ;-) you are spot-on about (among others) the highways - I love the new M3 - not life-threatening like the old one - maybe now Miskolc's population can start going up again. István 17:30, 22 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, Alensha, brilliant rant on Orbán!! LOL! Do I sense that you too are a disgruntled and disgusted erstwhile Fidesz supporter? :) although I heard that Viki might be moving to the Christian Democrats and taking his right-wing cronies with him, so Fidesz might be able to swing back to the center...I hope, I hope... :) K. Lásztocska 01:58, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good luck with the auditions! I was trying to find out how to say it in Hungarian but couldn't find anything :( I'm guessing it's Kalappal, but I didn't want to look daft if it was wrong :p Let us know how it goes :) M A Mason 16:45, 4 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Vojvodina incidents

Such incidents happen in every country and the real question is whether they have ethnic background or not. Vojvodina is a multiethnic place and if two men become drunken and start a fight because of pretty woman, it could very likely to happen that such men are of different ethnic origin. The question is whether they started fight because of woman or because they were of different ethnic origin (to see the answer read my previous sentence). Also, the web site that you quoted is not reliable one - for example, among other things, it claim that Hungarian leader (who else but Kasa) was attacked by hand granade. The fact (confirmed by the police) is that the target of that granade was not Kasa but his neighbour living in the same street several blocks away - of course Kasa claimed that he in fact was the target, but just think why. If you want to writte reliable information about events in Vojvodina, then please find a official report of European investigators who investigated those events. PANONIAN (talk) 04:20, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hehehe, well, I did saw some of your other edits (not in Vojvodina article), but I often read edits of some Hungarian users, including Hungarian notice board, and yes, you might not be "big" nationalist (like some other users), but you are not angel as well. :) - no offence of course - Just think about this: why I never edited articles related to Kosovo or Croatia to writte there that "evil" Croats and Albanians attacking Serbs (and believe me, news in Serbia are full of such reports). Besides this, you already have article named Anti-Hungarian sentiment where those things are mentioned and I certainly do not believe that "normal" geographical and historical articles should contain such controversial paragraphs. PANONIAN (talk) 04:35, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I will read that link tommorow - it is 05:37 in the morning and I have to sleep a little. :)) PANONIAN (talk) 04:42, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, good night. We will have to continue this discussion (much) later--I'm returning to my extended wikibreak now, since I have much better things to do than get insulted and distrusted just for being a damn Hungarian. K. Lásztocska 04:50, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, distrust does not came from the fact that you are Hungarian, but from the nature of your edit in "History of Vojvodina" article. Regarding your "nationalistic bias in the past", I could not find this in your recent edits, so either it was in some of your older edits either I confused you with some other user, in which case I apologize, but that anyway do not change the nature of your last edit in the history of Vojvodina. Now about "your" link: http://hrw.org/reports/2005/serbia1005/7.htm That link too say that it mention "incidents with alleged ethnic motivation" (notice the word "alleged"), and that political representatives of Vojvodina Hungarians are source for such allegations. Also, not to mention false information that could be found on that page, such is that "the Serbian criminal code does not contain any offenses proscribing acts of violence motivated by racial, ethnic, religious or national hatred", which is complete lie because Serbian criminal code do have sanctions against ethnically motivated violence and even against ethnically motivated "speech of hate". Regarding examples of ethnic incidents mentioned there, we can also discuss them one by one, but then we would have very long discussion - it is clear that authors of this site only assume that those incidents had ethnic background, and I see there no larger proof than their assumption. The basic fact that Serbian criminal law do proscribe sanctions against ethnically motivated violence (and this site claim that it not) and that participants in those incidents were not charged for ethnically motivated violence (because of lack of proof for such charges), show us what is the true background of such story - nothing but just another example of forged story in western media about "evil Serbs". If you want to have real story about those events, then please read the official report of European investigators. PANONIAN (talk) 13:53, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, here it is- official European Parliament Resolution on Vojvodina may be found here[5] which summarises the resolution adopted unanimously censuring Serbia for not controlling ethnic violence.István 15:43, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pannonian, this reference [6] from international Human Rights Watch rephrases much of what you discount as national-bias of the original reference, and this one [7] addresses the problem you mention above of police and official denial of ethnic-motivated violence, and states that "In spite of the numerous incidents against the minorities during 2004 and 2005, there were no criminal convictions against adults for violations of article 134." On many points you are correct- indeed there are Serb laws on the books against hate crimes (predating 11 July 1995?). Ive heard that Mexico has tough environmental protection laws and Thailand has laws against prostitution and heroin. You are also correct in that the deleted paragraph does not belong on History of Vojvodina; because it documents a current event it rather belongs on the Vojvodina page.István 15:13, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

he/she

I noticed that too. and i'll assume your good faith until i see otherwise. it only started because i thought something (your paragraph) was being taken out for no explained reason. but i don't know enough about the situation to really be able to judge. cheers! Murderbike 05:49, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

';-) whadda chandelier! István 03:01, 2 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

LOL...we're never going to entirely get over that are we...I am rather proud to be almost certainly the only person alive or dead to have ever been called a "Nagyite chandelier." Thanks, Piotrus and Ghirla! :)K. Lásztocska 04:32, 2 February 2007 (UTC) [reply]

Pole, Hungarian, two good friends

It's always a pleasure to collaborate with others on various articles. Sometimes when old (or not so old) nationalisms raise their heads it can be a little stressing (as we both now), but in many cases it's a pleasant experience (for example - one of many - I immensly enjoyed collaborating with one of my Romanian friends on the Polish-Romanian Alliance). It would be a pleasure to work with Hungarians on some articles of mutual interest (hmm, perhaps Moldavian Magnate Wars would contain some interesting tidbits? It's a pet project of mine, now a little bit forgotten, about a place and period virtually unknown to most Westerners). Another project which I am slowly movign towards is the Polish Revolution of 1956 - an interesing and important, if less known and widespread, counterpart of the Hungarian Revolution of 1956. Other articles of likely mutual interest would include szabla or Stefan Batory, perhaps?--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 03:37, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hungary & Liverpool & Userboxes :)

Hi! :) I was delighted with seeing, that You are not only a fellow Hungarian, but also a fellow LFC fan. =) I made some userboxes recently, maybe You would find them useful. :) User:Jaderoc/UBX/Pool Hungarian version: http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JadeRoc/UBX/Pool Best regards, JadeRoc 20:09, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]