Talk:Crimean War

Russian defeat say historians

"Russian defeat" say the many cites at https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=5%2C27&sciodt=0%2C27&cites=238879112336298460&scipsc=1&q="Russian+defeat"&oq=

(enter the search term "Russian defeat" --these are responses to the Figes history. Rjensen (talk) 10:08, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

The war is not over yet, a lot can happen. Slatersteven (talk) 10:15, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

I guess, Rjensen wrote not about modern conflict, but about 1853-1856 war, which is, indeed, a) long over and b) described as resulting in the Russian defeat - even by the Russian sources. Bests, Seryo93 (talk) 14:43, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

LOL, yes sorry, got confused. Slatersteven (talk) 14:44, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Ha - I was just going to post before I scrolled down a bit more - I was wondering what year you thought it was.  :-)

History

I would like to know about the Crimean war 41.210.145.103 (talk) 06:46, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

please read the article. Slatersteven (talk) 10:12, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Additional Commanders

@Cinderella157: So Yegor Tolstoy was the primary governor of several governorates that actively saw participation during the war and Ivan Krasnov was a main military leader of the war, being the main Russian commanders during the Siege of Taganrog. Bebutov was the primary commander of the Battle of Kurekdere and the naval officers I've added were naval figures during the Pacific operations of the war. The article's infobox is too short as the commanders primarily focus on the Crimean campaign as it doesn't completely represent the other campaigns as much, especially the Caucasus campaign. Now I could trim down on the commanders list such as the Pacific commanders for example but the current list is too short to represent the entirety of the war. SuperSkaterDude45 (talk) 01:18, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

SuperSkaterDude45, we have had similar discussions elsewhere so I don't think I need to reiterate all of the relevant guidance on this. Please see Talk:Crimean War/Archive 3#Infobox from hell. The infobox status quo has been arrived at through a combination of explicit discussion and collaborative editing and the general consensus is to avoid bloat. Tolstoy and Krasnov have a single passing mention in the body of the article and Bebutov (despite your edit comment) appears to have no mention. Their inclusions are not supported by the body of the article per WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE. Cinderella157 (talk) 02:44, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

@Cinderella157: The discussion seems to bring up commanders that don't even have a single mention at all and moreso had to do with a uncited section of a list of prominent commanders. Bebutov does actually have a mention but has a different translation of his surname in the following: "General Bebutashvili defeated the Ottomans at the Battle of Kurekdere". Not to mention that their omission actually violates MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE given that the other campaigns of the war are completely neglected in favor of one. Sure, the Crimean Campaign is the most important campaign of the war but that's like only naming military figures of the Tet Offensive during the Vietnam War and completely sidelining the rest of the years. SuperSkaterDude45 (talk) 02:56, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Per WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE: ... keep in mind the purpose of an infobox: to summarize (and not supplant) key facts that appear in the article ... And no, commanders do not fall to the spirit and intent of the exceptions noted there nor is their omission a violation of WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE. At the best, it might indicate scope for improving the article. We might revisit this when and if the article changes. We should also note the advice in the template documentation to limit the number of commanders. Cinderella157 (talk) 03:11, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Admittedly, there could be significantly more written about the Caucasus campaign considering it only has a few paragraphs compared to entire sections of specific battles of the Crimean campaign. I could translate content from the French and Russian wikis. Until then though, there's not much else I can really do though SuperSkaterDude45 (talk) 13:56, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Infobox Question

I noticed that the time the war took place over is tagged as citation needed, is it usually required that there be a specific citation for that separate from the citations in the body of the article relating to the start and end? Frobird (talk) 19:03, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Looking at the article, I am not seeing any citation that would support the precise date given in the infobox. Cinderella157 (talk) 23:37, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Following some Russian incursions, the Ottoman Empire declared war on Russia in October 1853; the date in sources varies between 4 and 16 October – the 12 day difference between Julian (old) and Gregorian (new) calendars, so 16 October is correct. This is not mentioned specifically in the article. The Treaty of Paris was signed on 30 March 1856, and the article mentions this date. I suggest it's safe to remove that {{citation needed}} template. A quick search returns https://www.prlib.ru/en/history/619634 if somebody wants to add a citation to "In October 1853, ... the Ottomans declared war on Russia." and change that to "On 16 October [O.S. 4 October] 1853, ... the Ottomans declared war on Russia." -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 06:00, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Not seeing any mention in the body of the article (with a supporting citation) that war was declared on a specific date in October 1853. Some amendment to the article is reasonably required to the article before removing the template in the infobox. Cinderella157 (talk) 09:44, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

References

The casualties and losses during Crimean war

The casualties and losses during Crimean war 62.7.226.237 (talk) 16:49, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

What about them? Slatersteven (talk) 16:53, 28 November 2022 (UTC)