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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Jossi2 (talk | contribs) at 19:06, 12 March 2023 (→‎Requested move 10 March 2023: support). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Requested move 10 March 2023

Hamburg shooting → ? – "Hamburg shooting" is incredibly broad and does not give a clear detail as to the shooting itself. Personally, I'm not opposed to Hamburg Jehovah's Witness Kingdom Hall shooting or Königreichssaal Jehovas Zeugen shooting, or even the article's previous title (2023 Hamburg shooting). elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 02:57, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'd go with 2023 Hamburg shooting, as it is very broad and adding the date to the title should be fine. Tails Wx 03:43, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that 2023 Hamburg shooting is the better title as it's more specific. Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:02, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
+1. DecafPotato (talk) 10:15, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agree. Prepending the year is common and should suffice for specificity. -- WA1TF0R䷟ 11:15, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That is what I've boldly done in the meantime. - L'Mainerque - (Talk - Signbook) - 12:42, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support; yeah we haven't had a Hamburg shooting ever, but it's preferable to have a year in here. Plus Hamburg is a big city, and it's likely to have multiple shootings unlike other famous cities with shootings like Uvalde or Parkland. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 14:30, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If this is the first one Wikipedia knows about in 1,200 years, what makes you think another is likely in our lifetimes? InedibleHulk (talk) 02:22, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I don't see the issue in adding the year. Mooonswimmer 19:16, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose 2023 This is the only notable Hamburg shooting. No reliable source calls it the 2023 Hamburg shooting, it's original research. The year doesn't explain anything about its nature, as "mass", "Jehovah's Witnesses" or "Kingdom Hall" could, it's just clunky and lazy. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:52, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    How does WP:OR apply here? Mooonswimmer 00:42, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Some are trying to present material indicating this event is called the 2023 Hamburg shooting. No reliable source calls it the 2023 Hamburg shooting. To demonstrate that you are not adding original research, you must be able to cite reliable, published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article and directly support the material being presented. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:22, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The issue with ignoring this rule is that it makes Hamburg seem like a place that has had so many shootings over the years that disambiguation is needed. Makes people wonder about the others. There are no others. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:29, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose because this highly-publicised shooting is the only notable one in Hamburg. The title doesn't need lengthening. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 04:15, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Issue is what happens if another mass shooting happens there? Then you'd have to go back and re-edit the pages. It's short-sighted to not properly name the page now because you think it won't happen again. 209.128.7.206 (talk) 10:07, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
On that basis, we'd include the month in the title to account for the possibility of another notable shooting happening in Hamburg this year. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 12:51, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The common standard for naming, per the WP:MOS, is to use year and location. Thus, 2023 Hamburg shooting is the appropriate title, regardless of whether there's been any other shootings at the location. SilverserenC 06:10, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Except the year isn't need in this case per WP:NOYEAR. -- DeFacto (talk). 21:17, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I wouldn't say that this is significant enough to fit into NOYEAR. Hamburg is a BIG city, a lot larger than most people realize, and "Hamburg Shooting", while marginally easier for comms between Wikipedia editors, doesn't help our readers as much. If the title was much more localized, such as a specific district, then there's a stronger argument to invoke NOYEAR. Think of it as events where just mentioning the place name in most contexts refers to the incident, such as Stoneman Douglas or Sandy Hook in the US. Hamburg's size as a city makes NOYEAR less helpful for our readers. Same with @Buidhe's comments on there being other shootings in Hamburg. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 05:17, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is Hamburg's only notable shooting. None of the others have or should have articles. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 08:14, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support 2023, as the articles about other deadly incidents in Germany, which have never happened before, also include the year in the title, such as 2016 Berlin truck attack -What can I do for someone?- (talk) 07:38, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The 2016 should be removed from that title because it's Berlin's only notable truck attack. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 08:14, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Weapon

Which specific type of firearm was used? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 03:36, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

According to the press conference that is currently running the shooter used a H&K P30, used 9x 15 capacity magazines out of 15 magazines in total.

Shooter

Is there any confirmation yet about whether the shooter was among the dead? 2001:4430:5081:B91E:DCCE:5C8E:9421:50A8 (talk) 05:39, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also what race was the shooter and lets wait until police investigate the shooters background to see what his/hers motive was. 95.130.163.169 (talk) 10:14, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
According to a press conference that is currently airing the shooter is indeed among the dead due suicide. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vtfsobnf (talk • contribs) 11:42, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pics & Location

The 35 y/o perpetrator is reportedly named "Philipp" ("published a book in English about God, Jesus and Satan") [1]

[2]

"He describes himself on his website as 'multicultural' and 'an avowed European'." [3]

Gun shots from outside of the building through a window by perpetrator filmed by a local resident [4] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8109:25C0:6C8:B8F6:E428:62B1:85E4 (talk) 11:00, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[5] [6]

In the building to the left of the crime scene (Deelböge 15) is this painting business (incl. vid) [7] [8]

In these photos, the building of the crime scene (Deelböge 17) is captured on the right side of the pics [9]

[10] 2A02:8109:25C0:6C8:B8F6:E428:62B1:85E4 (talk) 10:48, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Perp's Name

The perpetrator's name is Philipp Fusz [11], even his website, where he refers to himself as "CEO", "operator" and the like, is still online https://philippfusz.com/. He posted a sensational success story about his consulting business on LinkedIn four hours before the attack: "After over two months, I can determine from my sales report that my book has a 100% satisfaction rate. No returns, however there are samples or used in the market. That is quite an astonishing record! Who else has a 100% satisfaction rate?" [12] 2A02:8109:25C0:6C8:F894:C4D5:8814:E92A (talk) 14:49, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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