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April 22

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Category:Palestinians

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: speedy keep. Nominated by sockpuppet and no one supported a rename. (non-admin closure) CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 22:51, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: I suggest renaming the category 'Palestinians' to 'Palestinian Arabs' to make a clearer distinction between nationality and ethnicity categories. The term 'Palestinians' can be ambiguous as it refers to both. By using the term 'Palestinian Arabs', we can better differentiate between the two. Nagsb (talk) 22:09, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The main article is Palestinians and the first sentence describes them as an "ethnonational group". (In contrast, Palestinian Arabs is a redirect to Palestinians.) - RevelationDirect (talk) 23:10, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose — Arabs are from Arabia. Palestinians are from Palestine. Also, Lebanese are from Lebanon and Egyptians are from Egypt. Genetics confirms it. That many speak a variant of Arabic-language is a result of historical conquest. Remember, Scots are not English. Also, Americans are not English and Australians are not English. That they mostly speak a variant of English-language is a result of historical conquest.
    William Allen Simpson (talk) 05:11, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @William Allen Simpson for this meaning of the term Palestinians, Palestinians are from Palestine, i. e. nationals of the State of Palestine, we have Category:Palestinian people. This category is for another meaning - for one specific ethnic group in the State of Palestine. This is exactly the confusion I was refering to. Nagsb (talk) 07:03, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Your edits to confine them to the State of Palestine have been reverted. The proper parent is Category:Palestine (region). Palestinian-Israelis exist. Also, Palestinians are in refugee camps in Lebanon and Jordan, and as diaspora around the world.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:27, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The first is the ethnicity, the second is the people set, and the third is by place, all pursuant to Wikipedia:Categorization of people.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:27, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The naming is terrible. These really need to be split between people and topics.
    1. There is no consistency between "Israeli Arab" and "Arab Israeli". Same with Bedouins and Druze.
    2. Looking at the various subcategories, these are mixtures of Arabic-language with semitic peoples, not Arabs from Arabia per se. Apparently Egyptians call Bedouins "Arabs", but mean "nomads". The word "arab" doesn't even mean the same thing.
    3. Ottomans weren't Arabs or semitic. It might be a good idea to follow the organization of Category:People from Ottoman Palestine.
    4. The Mandatory Palestine tree is a mess. We can probably dispose of Category:Mixed communities in Mandatory Palestine; its only entry is Ashdod. Modern Ashdod was established in 1956. After Mandatory Palestine.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 13:35, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So strange. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:28, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Kievan Rus' people

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:People from Kievan Rus'. (non-admin closure) William Allen Simpson (talk) 07:20, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: rename per the ending of Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_April_12#Rus'_people_by_century. Presumably User:Laurel Lodged and User:Nederlandse Leeuw intended this category to be included in the nomination, but that did not actually happen. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:14, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:16th-century Austrian literature

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 22:53, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: delete, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Merging is not needed, the subcategory is already under appropriate parents. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:41, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Tornadoes by country

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 22:54, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT. Not enough content in these countries. –Aidan721 (talk) 11:21, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Nobles of Kievan Rus

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Nobles of Kievan Rus' by title. WP:C2C parents Category:Nobles by country and title and Category:Kievan Rus'. No consensus for merging. This is a selective reading of the voluminous comments, amid objections to any reorganizing of the tree until the dust has settled. (non-admin closure) William Allen Simpson (talk) 08:15, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with one subcategory. If kept, rename to Category:Nobles of Kievan Rus' per WP:C2C. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:38, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Dust is settling.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, William Allen Simpson (talk) 06:28, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not really yet. Target still needs to be renamed and Category:Princes in Rus' is still ongoing. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 07:17, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Suggested category tree for People from Kievan Rus'
(based on existing examples of Category:People from Austria-Hungary, Category:Austrian people, and Category:People from the Holy Roman Empire for comparison)
* People from Fooland (e.g. Category:People from Austria-Hungary, Category:Austrian people)
** Nobility of Fooland (e.g. Category:Nobility of Austria-Hungary, Category:Austrian nobility) 
*** Nobles of Fooland by title (diffuse, e.g. Category:Nobles of the Holy Roman Empire by title)
**** Princes of/in Fooland (diffuse, e.g. Category:Princes of the Holy Roman Empire)
***** Princes of Barland (non-royalty individuals, e.g. Category:Princes of Bavaria; can have "Barian" or "Barland" in name)
*** Royalty of Fooland (e.g. Category:Austrian royalty)
**** Monarchs of Fooland (e.g. Category:Emperors of Austria; should have "Fooian" or "Fooland" in name)
**** Princes of Fooland (individuals, e.g. Category:Austrian princes; should have "Fooian" or "Fooland" in name))
**** Princesses of Fooland (individuals, e.g. Category:Austrian princesses; should have "Fooian" or "Fooland" in name))
**** (Royal) consorts of Fooland (e.g. Category:Austrian royal consorts; should have "Fooian" or "Fooland" in name))

* People from Fooland (e.g. Category:People from Austria-Hungary, Category:Austrian people)
** People from Fooland by occupation (e.g. Category:People from the Austrian Empire by occupation, Category:Austrian people by occupation > Category:Austrian men by occupation)
*** Monarchs of Fooland (e.g. Category:Emperors of Austria)
*** Princes of Fooland (e.g. Category:Austrian princes)
*** Princesses of Fooland? (e.g. Category:Austrian princesses is not in the people by occupation tree)
*** (Royal) consorts of Fooland? (e.g. Category:Austrian royal consorts is not in the people by occupation tree)

* People from Kievan Rus' (rename from Category:Kievan Rus' people, currently in progress)
** Nobility of Kievan Rus' (currently doesn't exist; rename from Category:Nobles of Kievan Rus?)
*** Nobles of Kievan Rus' by title (diffuse, currently doesn't exist; rename from Category:Noble titles of Kievan Rus?)
**** Princes of/in Kievan Rus'? (diffuse; rename from Category:Princes in Rus', currently in progress)
***** Category:Princes of Pereyaslavl (non-royalty individuals)
*** Royalty of Kievan Rus' (rename from Category:Kievan Rus' royalty)
**** Category:Princes of Kiev
***** Grand Princes of Kiev
**** Princes of Kievan Rus'? (individuals, should have "Kiev" or "Kievan Rus'" in name; can't think of any examples; should be different category than Princes of/in Kievan Rus'/diffuse)
**** Princesses of Kievan Rus' (rename from Category:Kievan Rus' princesses; probably needs to be reorganised/purged, e.g. by creating siblingcat for consorts)
**** Consorts of Kievan Rus'? (populate with people like Category:Wives of Vladimir the Great)

* People from Kievan Rus' (rename from Category:Kievan Rus' people, currently in progress)
** People from Kievan Rus' by occupation (currently doesn't exist)
**** Category:Princes of Kiev
***** Grand Princes of Kiev
*** Category:11th-century bishops in Kievan Rus'
*** Category:Monks from Kievan Rus'‎
*** Princesses of Kievan Rus'? (rename from Category:Kievan Rus' princesses, see above)
*** Consorts of Kievan Rus'? (see above)
** Category:Women from Kievan Rus'
*** Category:Women from Kievan Rus' by century
*** Nuns from Kievan Rus'‎ (rename from Category:Kievan Rus' nuns‎)
*** Princesses of Kievan Rus' (rename from Category:Kievan Rus' princesses, see above)
*** Consorts of Kievan Rus'? (see above)
@Marcocapelle, William Allen Simpson, Laurel Lodged, Fayenatic london, Paul 012, and Mzajac: please let me know what you think. I hope this makes clear why I couldn't make sense of the current category tree, which not only needs to have a couple of renamings and re-parentings, but also has Category:Nobles of Kievan Rus and Category:Princes in Rus' trying to do multiple jobs at once, and therefore failing at them. This is quite a complicated question to solve (which is why I wanted to wait for the dust to settle), but I think that now, using the existing (imperfect) examples, this is the most reasonable proposal I can currently offer. (Using indent seemed the best way to visualise this, please let me know if that's an issue). I hope we can find solutions to the remaining questions I have. Thanks in advance, and cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:34, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I’m not familiar with all of these, but to me plural Princes of Kievan Rus sounds like a set of individuals, while singular Prince of Kievan Rus is a topic about the title. —Michael Z. 23:40, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Good point. "Prince of Kievan Rus'" never existed as a title (which is why I had Category:Rulers of Kievan Rus' renamed to Category:Princes of Kiev, which did exist as a title). But maybe Prince in Kievan Rus' ("in" + singular) could play a role in this tree somewhere? E.g. should it take the place of **** Princes of/in Fooland (diffuse)? Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:59, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment — While it seems reasonable, my preference is that these had been nominated separately, instead of trying to cram too much general discussion into one place. You are not all computer or information scientists, but I've tried to give examples of careful nominations updating one part of tree at a time (usually bottom up instead of top down).
    William Allen Simpson (talk) 05:32, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Heads of State of Estonia

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Heads of state of Estonia. WP:C2C (non-admin closure) William Allen Simpson (talk) 08:26, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:C2D main article State Elder of Estonia, which I moved per Talk:State Elder of Estonia#Move suggestion that nobody had acted upon for 15 years, and because State Elder was used way more often in the main article itself than Head of State, and because Wikipedians don't see that 'Heads of State of Estonia' is a title rather than a position (a mistake I initially also made, because the only difference is that State is written with a capital S) by making Category:Presidents of Estonia a subcategory instead of a sibling. State Elder / Head of State and President are both titles for the position of a head of state. On an etymological note, en:wikt:vanem#Estonian means (1) parent (2) elder, leader, chieftain, en:wikt:riik (genitive riigi) means (1) state, country, polity (2) government (mostly the Estonian government), so rather than "Head of State", it also makes more sense to translate Riigivanem as "State Elder" (or "State Parent"; note that "elders" in English originally meant "parents" or "ancestors", just like en:wikt:Eltern in German and en:wikt:ouders in Dutch still do). There is no Estonian equivalent meaning for "head" in vanem. Finally, see Elder (administrative title), where the meaning of elder in the sense of "older" or "oldest" is used, and vanem is also translated as "State Elder". Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 05:56, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Alt rename + new subcat rationale: in order to not leave a hole in the heads of state by country tree. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:54, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
PS: I intend to CfR Category:Rulers of Estonia for a rename to Category:Heads of state of Estonia (lowercase s) hereafter in order to correct the category trees, which are currently a mess exactly because people have been mistaking this category (failing to spot the capital S) for a generic function rather than a historic title that only existed between 1920 and 1937 and is now obsolete. (The renamed category might also include Category:Dukes of Estonia). But, one step at a time. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 06:01, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Oceanian rulers

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Merge (non-admin closure) * Pppery * it has begun... 20:26, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT 1 C, 0 P. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 04:08, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:South American rulers

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Merge (non-admin closure) * Pppery * it has begun... 20:26, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT 1 C, 0 P. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 03:58, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Empresses and imperial consorts of Ethiopia

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Empresses consort of Ethiopia. WP:C2B and WP:C2C. (non-admin closure) William Allen Simpson (talk) 08:44, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:C2B WP:C2C parent Category:Empresses consort. The only empress regnant of Ethiopia there has ever been is Zewditu, so we can take her out (she is already in Category:Empresses regnant). The only non-female imperial consort there has ever been is Zewditu's husband Gugsa Welle, who is currently not in the category. This clarifies, simplifies, and standardises the category's name, purposes and contents. In addition, parents Category:Rulers of Ethiopia and Category:Women rulers in Africa should be removed, as they do not apply to any category members (except Zewditu, whom I propose to remove). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 03:18, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Radio stations licensed before 1923 and still broadcasting

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 22:56, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:ARBITRARYCAT)
I read 1922 in radio, 1923 in radio, and 1924 in radio in vain trying to understand this seemingly arbitrary cutoff point. If this is deleted, we'll still have List of oldest radio stations. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:01, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Plants used in Ayurveda

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 22:48, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCASSOC similar to WP:PERFCAT)
Ayurveda is an alternative medicine system originating in India that recommends diets and herbs for health. Liquorice, Long pepper and Myrrh mention this association in passing while Aloe, Alfalfa and Rose don't mention it at all. The Clove article says that spice is used in pumpkin pies, curries, baked hams and cigarettes but we don't have categories for those uses because it would create clutter at the bottom of the article. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:01, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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