Talk:Assault rifle

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False Naming; "Assault rifle"

There is no such thing as an “Assault Rifle”.

“AR” comes from Armalite, Inc; “Armalite Rifle”

Armalite/Fairchild/Colt built rifles for the military an designated them using the letters “AR-xx” representing an Armalite Rifle model xx.

“Assault rife” should be removed from Wikipedia.

VJS Vjsimone (talk) 17:23, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The article is full of citations from reliable published sources that disagree with the assertion that "There is no such thing as an 'Assault Rifle'." BilCat (talk) 17:38, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, for cryin' out loud—it's a descriptive term, not a trademark. And, yeah, BilCat is right: there is such a thing as an "assault rifle". I see them all the time, too, especially in the hands of military personnel. — UncleBubba ^{( T @ C )} 18:56, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

if you hunt bubba your rifle bc that's the only kind a 'rifle' is like a larger cal. Than NATO 5.56mm did you know that it's a NATO approved 'rifle'. And your hunting which is just a 'rifle' is also more accurate and the rounds flatter longer shooting. Is your 'pearing' knife not just a 'knife' 2603:6010:2205:8D00:E4CB:50DC:3120:90F7 (talk) 20:32, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hey man, this is incomprehensible. 2601:449:4200:3840:F44D:2792:71E5:872D (talk) 15:45, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Vjsimone: Perhaps what you meant is that the "AR" in "AR-15" does not stand for "assault rifle" and that an AR-15 is not an assault rifle. I'd agree with you there, but not with your main assertion. North8000 (talk) 19:12, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I would actually agree that there isn't really a thing that is an assault rifle, but the article is necessary because there seems to be a political motivation to label any rifle more modern than a musket as an "assault rifle." that being said, I think there needs be a segment in the article regarding the over labeling of assault rifles. Especially since in states like California there are attempts at legislation that would make the lever action Marlin I use for hunting an "assault rifle." the definition has become so political that it needs to be addressed 2601:246:5680:E670:14BD:C0A9:CC57:A9EE (talk) 00:58, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The political usage is already covered at Assault weapon. Both terms are often conflated with each other, but "assault rifle" is a legitimate military term that is over 75 years old. BilCat (talk) 01:05, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think the "assault rifle" is supposed to refer to German Sturmgevehr where the "gevehr" part means "rifle"; and the "sturm" is translated as "assault".— Preceding unsigned comment added by Профессор кислых щей (talk • contribs)

Well, the German Sturmgevehr translates as "rifle" (gevehr) to perform an "assault" (sturm). The current consensus is, AR-10/AR-15 platform was heavily influenced by the StG-44, while it was supposed to oppose 7.62x51 guns like G3 or M-14. 81.89.66.133 (talk) 08:29, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pre-Sturmgevehr guns

Cei-Rigotti from 1890s

Fedorov Avtomat

Ribeyrolles 1918 automatic carbine

Literally the Fedorov Avtomat. Also, the XIX century invention of Cei-Rigotti. Those were literally the XM7 rifle-tier "assaulties" in terms of 6.5mm caliber and 5 centimeters long rounds. I mean, the Russian gun, "the avtomat before there even were avtomats" wasn't any heaver than a "tactical"-decorated modern assault rifle: 11 lb loaded or under 9.7 lb unloaded. And the Italian curio was superleggera in that regard: it had the weight of 4.3 kg (9.5 lb). Профессор кислых щей (talk) 16:04, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be worthwhile to add a subsection to the history section to discuss these early "pre-assault" automatic rifles. VQuakr (talk) 20:50, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I'll make such a subsection one day. By the way, there was Ribeyrolles 1918 Automatic Carbine, with its 8x35 cartridge being really close to 7.92x33. 81.89.66.133 (talk) 10:18, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I got you, made a section just in case StG is (still?) believed to be a "wunderwaffe". Профессор кислых щей (talk) 12:54, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A-a-a-and it's gone, because someone a really good reaction time. What I wanted is to create a section on rare prototypes, that weren't assault rifles yet were featuring traits of "engineering evolution", so to say. It's bold to say Ribeyrolles 1918 was "the first"; yet it was one of the first experiments. In fact, there should be a paragraph for at least one early caliber that is not rifle-ish yet is not a pistolet-ish either. Профессор кислых щей (talk) 11:31, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to note there WAS the research: one of the sources used says: This is true, but it is worth bearing in mind that, in terms of calibre and muzzle energy, they were in the same class as the present-day 6.8x43 Remington SPC and 6.5x38 Grendel, which are today regarded by many as ideal intermediate cartridges for assault rifles. In other words, the author puts Arisaka 6.5x50SR (not the WWII era 7.7mm namesake round) into the same "intermediate" class as 6.8x43 and Grendel. Профессор кислых щей (talk) 11:42, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think a gallery-like insert would be nice. Added it atop of the section to not ruin the markup.

Conflicting accounts regarding Hugo Schmeisser

I'd like to recommend an edit of the portion regarding the development of the AK-47.

The only listed source for the claim regarding Hugo Schmeisser's involvement with the development of the AK-47 is a very short and uncited article that makes an off hand mention about Schmeisser's possible involvement, while both the articles for Hugo Schmeisser himself, and the AK-47, have cited histories stating that his involvement was never explicit, and that he may very well have never worked on the design directly or at all. The wording of this section is also very strange, and reads as though to imply Mikhail Kalashnikov only worked on the later variants. The latter may just be a poorly executed edit, but the assertive claim that Hugo Schmeisser worked on the AK-47 seems to directly contradict his wiki and the wiki for the rifle itself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Technotuna42 (talk • contribs) 15:11, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think there is a bunch of weak circumstantial things to point at: the 7.92x33 vs the 7.62x39, the "ribbed" 30-round magazines and maybe that huge front sight. But then again, the Schmeisser's involvement could have happened somewhere after the 1947 design and the 1949 adoption of the AK-47.

Select fire weapons vs fully automatic weapons

Select fire usually has safe, semi-automatic or burst options...whereas the fully automatic is ..well, fully automatic.

Even though there is literally no such thing as an assault rifle--the "AR" simply stands for "Armalite Rifle" for the inventor of that specific weapon system. The term "assault rifle" is made up and is used by those who have no idea what they are speaking about.

Just like how the AK refers to Avtomát Kaláshnikova. An automatic weapon (with no selection option for any other firing mode up until the SK models to which they were given the select option for semi-auto, auto, or safety.

The first ever Armalite Rifle (M-16) didn't have a selector option for semi, or burst. It was automatic or it was on safe.

166.182.253.97 (talk) 06:50, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Assault rifle" is a valid term for the military rifle, and a term that has been in use for a long time. Assault rifle, the term for a type of military rifle is often conflated with assault rifle, a US legal term for some types of semiautomatic weapons.

Assault rifles generally have safe, semi-auto and full auto modes, but some have burst mode instead of full auto. One of these is the M-16 that was modified from the original safe/semi-auto/full auto modes. You are welcome to read the relevant articles to learn more about this topic. Sjö (talk) 19:53, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Assault rifle" hasn't been really a military term since the fall of Adolf Hitler (its inventor). As noted, American military uses either just "rifle" or "automatic rifle", Russian (Ukrainian etc) is "avtomat" (automatic gun), Polish "karabin / karabinek automatyczny" (automatic rifle / carbine), and so forth. It's a civilian term - used by American police (coloquially), politicians, journalists, video game makers, and such. The only exceptions are Austria and Switzerland where there have been post-WWII military weapons designated Sturmgewehr. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.173.41.12 (talk) 23:41, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

And as for

"The U.S. Army defines assault rifles as "short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachine gun and rifle cartridges."

Its just one random intel report from half century ago (1970). Beyond that and perhaps other oddities, the U.S. Army usually doesn't define assault rifles because the U.S. Army doesn't recognise assault rifles. You should find a plenty in manuals and other documents about rifles and automatic rifles though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.173.41.12 (talk) 23:57, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I beg to differ. There are several sources that confirm it is very much in use as a military term. http://www.military-today.com/firearms/top_10_assault_rifles.htm https://www.nzdf.mil.nz/nzdf/our-equipment/firepower/modular-assault-rifle-system-light-mars-l/ https://english.defensie.nl/topics/materiel/arms https://www.army.gov.au/our-work/equipment-uniforms/equipment/small-arms/enhanced-f88 https://canadianarmytoday.com/whats-replacing-the-c7-assault-rifle/ https://www.fairchild.af.mil/News/Photos/igphoto/2001041802/ I guess that in everyday use you would refer to the service rifle as just a "rifle" or "service rifle" since it doesn't really matter to the soldier what weapons class it is, and because in the US anything with "assault + X" is likely to start a political discussion. Sjö (talk) 08:48, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Cemented trend" sentence in "5.56 NATO"

"The adoption of the 5.56mm NATO and the Russian 5.45×39mm cartridges cemented the worldwide trend toward small caliber, high-velocity cartridges", says m-14parts.com. Nevertheless, there was a over-a-decade long search for a bigger yet intermediate gun round, characterized by such ammo as Grendel and SPC. The same goes to intermediate-ish .277 Fury, used in XM7 rifle. Профессор кислых щей (talk) 11:49, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 9 June 2023

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Sturmgewehr translates to storm rifle in English not assault rifle. Sturm- storm gewehr- rifle. Request correct translation change. 96.244.147.42 (talk) 23:24, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]