This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Horizon206(talk | contribs) at 02:02, 6 August 2023(Adding another concern of mine to the talk page). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
Revision as of 02:02, 6 August 2023 by Horizon206(talk | contribs)(Adding another concern of mine to the talk page)
Per the 7th AFD, "all further nominations should be closed as violations of WP:DELAFD unless there is new or changed policy backing the AFD". And per the DRV "[The preceding sentence] should be read as an admonition against superfluous nominations. It is not a moratorium."
IAR cannot be used by a minority party to simply assert that a rule that they don't like doesn't apply in a given situation. By definition, an appropriate IAR action will have the approval of an overwhelming number of editors. Such is not the case here.
Thus, absent a clear majority in favor of an IAR position, and given the clear policy arguments in support of a normal WP:V approach, the clear policy based consensus is to keep this list only to those deaths for whom there are reliable sources (as noted by one person, these need to be high quality sources, not tabloid journals who regularly fling around these words for fun) that the death is in someway exceptional. All other entries (those for whom someone might say "Come on, this is obviously strange") should be removed.
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Megan Gibson (2011-01-14). "Wikipedia's 10th Anniversary: 10 Unforgettable Entries". TIME. Archived from the original on 2011-01-19. Retrieved 2010-01-15. This page, which doesn't claim to be complete, lists examples of unique or rare circumstances in which people have died. Gruesome? Yes. Distasteful? Perhaps. Fascinating? Definitely.
Caitlin Dewey (2015-11-05). "The most fascinating Wikipedia articles you haven't read". Washington Post. Retrieved 2015-11-06. When the Wikimedia Foundation recently polled its staffers about their favorite pages, these lists of urban legends, weird deaths and under-touted revolutions were among the winners. No explanation necessary, tbh: They're all self-evidently fascinating.
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Holding tank
There is a holding tank for content, removed from the article due to poor sourcing, which may have been included in the article for a considerable time: Talk:List of unusual deaths/Sourcing issues. Following talk page discussion, and in line with WP:STALEDRAFT, it has been agreed that any content in this holding area not sourced within 6 months from addition should be removed.
Are you referring to Nutty Putty Cave? Sadly, spelunkers getting stuck and dying happens far more often than it should, but if you can find reliable third-party sources that call the death unusual or some synonym thereof, you're welcome to add it. NekoKatsun (nyaa) 02:41, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I am refering to the Nutty Putty Cave incident. Not sure why jokers are making jokes down below. This most definitely constitutes an "unusual death". 107.10.129.126 (talk) 07:56, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If this is talking about “snakebitmgee”, The YouTuber that ended up missing. He was in Nevada when he went missing and it isn’t confirmed that he is dead. They found his camera and phone next to an abandoned mine (I think it was). His wife determined that he committed suicide because he battled depression for several years. HimynameisAndre (talk) 10:50, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That was Kenny Veach in 2014. But it wasn't his wife, who said "I believe he committed suicide"? It was "the woman claiming to be his girlfriend." Was there ever an inquest? But falling down a mineshaft would have probably been less unusual than being abducted by aliens in Area 51. 86.187.171.22 (talk) 19:32, 9 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What about that girl that fell in the well.... Jennifer something? This was a while ago... did she die? That would be kind of unusual I guess? Or maybe she's still down there, I don't know, I haven't seen anything about it for a while. Herostratus (talk) 19:56, 9 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Seems she is now aged 37. But what about that large rotund guy? That was also a while ago... he allegedly fell from a substantial fortification... did he die? I believe the incident involved cavalry and foot soldiers belong to a famous monarch. That would be kind of unusual I guess? Or maybe he's still in pieces, I don't know, I haven't seen anything about it for a while. Humpty something, I think. 86.187.171.22 (talk) 20:07, 9 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Add Owen Hart
Owen Hart has had one of the most unfortunate deaths. His death occurred while Owen was performing as the Blue Blazer. Since this was some sort of superhero gimmick, they would have him be lowered into the ring from a harness. But, on May 23, 1999 at the WWF Over The Edge PPV, he was supposed to be lowered down to the ring by the harness. This time, the harness snapped and caused him to fall all the way down into the wrestling ring, nearly hitting a referee. At 8:22 P.M., his death was announced by Jim Ross, an announcer that worked for the WWF at the time. Truly a terrible accident that should’ve never happened. HimynameisAndre (talk) 10:36, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We need a reliable source that calls the death explicitly unusual (or similar - bizarre, freakish, rare, etc.). If you can find one, I see no reason why Hart's death couldn't be included.
If memory serves, the superhero angle was also supposed to be slightly incompetent, so the original plan was for him to release from the harness just above the ground and pratfall the last couple of feet. This necessitated a quick release harness, but something happened to trigger the release early, hence the 70-someodd foot fall onto the top rope. NekoKatsun (nyaa) 14:02, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I know it's what the source says, but it's not really "incomprehensible", is it? Because simply... "a wire holding him in the air either broke or became disconnected while he was being lowered into the ring". Simple as. I suppose "bizarre" is good enough, except that the use of the word "incomprehensible" kind of casts doubt on that source? It certainly sounds unusual. 86.187.171.22 (talk) 19:20, 9 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Current consensus seems to be that Bleacher Report is not a reliable source; Since abandoning the content farm model in 2010, Bleacher Report has been the subject of continued criticism for its exploitation of unpaid contributors, its blanket policy prohibiting writers from breaking their own news, and its high-volume production of low-quality, search-optimized slideshow content. Looks like it's all self-published content. NekoKatsun (nyaa) 16:48, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Think I definitely understand the argument that it's not all that unusual - it's about as unusual as a circus tiger going nuts and killing its handler. It's not supposed to happen, it's not part of the show, but it does happen. Except in all of the wrestling matches ever put on, how many wrestlers died in the ring from a demonstrably freak accident, in demonstrably unique circumstances. Owen's death is one of a kind from a certain regard. I appreciate that this is conjecture for the most part and that isn't the Wikipedia way, but think for a second if there are any high profile comparable incidents?
Also, when we're looking at reliability of sources, who is qualified to say what is an unusual death? Only someone that has done the necessary research through global death records into how common that method of death is and has come to the statistical conclusion that this death has a rarity to it.
Do we really hold every death on this article to that strict standard? Or is it all conjecture to a degree? Is Owen Hart's death less unusual than Rasputin for example, who is on this list? He was shot to death after a failed poisoning attempt, and his body dumped in a river. People are poisoned, shot and drowned every day 80.47.229.192 (talk) 18:09, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
All reasonable questions. Most wrestlers don't get lowered into the ring like a circus act. Your second point is even more pertinent. But the list here (currently) uses only one criterion - that a WP:RS reliable source describes the death as "unusual" or a synonym of that (see top of this page). Yes, Rasputin is included, of course - plenty of sources available. Thanks. 86.187.228.204 (talk) 18:35, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Per the notice at the top of this talkpage, the clear policy based consensus is to keep this list only to those deaths for whom there are reliable sources (as noted by one person, these need to be high quality sources, not tabloid journals who regularly fling around these words for fun) that the death is in someway exceptional. It's not a matter of whose death is more or less unusual, and it's not necessarily a matter of statistical rarity; some deaths are 'common' (poisoned, shot, drowned, as you say), but the circumstances and reporting point out that there's something unusual about them (can you name a case other than Rasputin where all three happened at once?).
By the same token, people fall from heights every day, wrestlers die in the ring with depressing frequency, and stunts go wrong all the time; what would make Hart's death unusual is that it's all three at once. We need a source that says that, though; any conjecture accepted here should only be on the part of the source, not us editors.
The key thing to remember is that we do not decide what's unusual. We only report what other sources say. If we think something might be unusual, we can go looking for sources, but that's about it. NekoKatsun (nyaa) 18:44, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
All points have been taken on board. I was the one who discussed comparing to Rasputin etc so I'll give this one more try and then leave it as reliable source material is proving hard to come by.
I don't speak Hungarian, so I can't verify if the source refers to the death as unusual. That's the standard (what the source says), regardless of what us editors think. NekoKatsun (nyaa) 21:40, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The article currently says "half his body from the head down to the waist was stuck into a meat grinder" whereas the source makes it seem like the wording should be "half his body from the head down to the waist was pulled into a meat grinder" as his hand got caught first and the machine pulled the rest of him in. Not too big of a deal, but the "stuck" version makes it seem to me like he was pushed into the machine (like "stuck a fork in the outlet" to continue the morbidness.) 174.45.135.223 (talk) 01:22, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree completely, and have made the change you suggested.
Also, holy cow, I was not expecting a picture of it when I clicked through to check the source! Fair warning for anyone else, I guess, there's a black and white photo of the poor guy's legs sticking out of the machine. Yeesh. NekoKatsun (nyaa) 14:52, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oh no worries at all, I'm not upset, just surprised. I suppose I'm more used to 'slightly distant picture of the building with police tape', 'recent smiling picture of the victim', and occasionally 'picture of ambulance with stretcher visible'. Thank you for your concern, though! NekoKatsun (nyaa) 14:50, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Vulture getting hit by a space shuttle
I think that a vulture getting hit by a space shuttle launch would be considered quite unusual. However, I only found one source that covered this beyond a single sentence (and even that was from NASA themselves). In addition to this, I also found no reliable sources confirming nor denying that this was fatal for the vulture. If we could find more sources and verify that it was fatal to the vulture, I think it would make a great addition. Horizon206 (talk) 01:59, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
