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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Cewbot (talk | contribs) at 09:26, 13 February 2024 (Maintain {{WPBS}}: 6 WikiProject templates. Keep majority rating "Start" in {{WPBS}}. Remove 6 same ratings as {{WPBS}} in {{WikiProject Thailand}}, {{WikiProject Ethnic groups}}, {{WikiProject China}}, {{WikiProject Burma (Myanmar)}}, {{WikiProject Southeast Asia}}, {{WikiProject Vietnam}}.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Meaning of "Dai"

The last version said "The term 'Dai' means Heaven, or Sky." User 202.57.165.90 corrected that to "The term 'Dai' means free." Neither of these claims was substantiated and I'd like to see sources for that. Babelfisch 01:29, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Dai Religion

I'm very interested in learning about the Dai traditional religion that's mentioned in the article. Gringo300 07:31, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Shan in Burma

Should this be linked to the Shan article? Or maybe even merged with it? Or are they actually different groups? Carl Kenner 19:35, 13 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

They're same group. Shan is the name given by Myammar. Dai ([d̥ai]) is their own name and adopted by China. In the past, Chinese call them Bai Yi people (摆夷族). --220.181.106.54 (talk) 17:52, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

tai pong

ethnologue has Tai Pong listed as a dialect of Tai Nua. Abstrakt

Ethnologue usually doesn't distinguish clearly between languages and dialects, and their sources are often dubious. —Babelfisch 06:04, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dubious

Is “Dai people” an umbrella term?

Dai people simply refer to those who call themselves Dai (IPA: [tai/d̥ai]), and in English, "those nuclear Tai peoples who call themselves Tai". Those "Tai people" mentioned in this article, such as Zhuang, Hlai, accutually do not call themselves "Tai". They have their own names such as Bouxcuengh, etc., and when mentioned as one group, then prefer them name Rauz (a.k.a. Raeuz, Lao, Rau, Liao). The name "Dai" is NOT a Han-Chinese cultural concept but a national self-will of Dai.

Yes, that is there Chinese name, but that barely matters (unless, of course, the identification of a "nuclear Dai people" is after all a Chinese invention hoisted upon apolitical Dai peasants). What matters is their name in their OWN language. --Yalens (talk) 14:19, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It's not Chinese invention, but that Dai people and Zhuang people are indeed different. All Dai people call them selves as “Dai X” (such as Dai Lü, Dai Le and Dai Ddam), but did you hear any Zhuang people call themselves “Dai Cuengh”? Now I can answer your question: their name in their OWN language is “DAI” or “TAI”! --220.181.106.54 (talk) 14:55, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Question: What's the name of Tai peoples in their OWN language? --220.181.106.54 (talk) 17:50, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Tai/Dai

Even the name "Dai" is not Hanyu Pinyin of Chinese language, for the letter "D" merely refers a tenuis consonant (IPA: [d̥]). It's true that the Royal Thai General System of Transcription use "d/t/th" to distinguish IPA [d], [d̥] and [tʰ], but there's no rule that all D̥ai people should follow that. In China, Dai people use "dd/d/t" to distinguish them (and it seems this is statistically more scientific because among languages of Dai [tʰ] occurs more infrequently than [d]).

What about the English-concept “Tai people”?

If “Dai people” is an umbrella term, the term “Tai people” suit it more appropriately. Most groups under “Tai people” do not actually call themselves Tai. Besides Zhuang and Hlai, Buyei, Nung, Kra peoples and Kam-Sui peoples do not have traditions to call themselves Tai. Basically the northern part of Tai and Lao people call themselves Rauz/Raeuz/Lao/Liao while the southern part call themselves Dai/Tai/Thai. So it would be better to say “Rau-Dai peoples (or Lao-Tai peoples) + Kra peoples + Kam-Sui peoples” or “Kradai peoples” rather than “Tai peoples”. The term “Tai people” might be imposed by Thai-nationalists and is not accepted by all Kra-Dai speaking peoples.

Discussion

Leave your comment here if you want to discuss the term “Dai people”

I do not have a problem with the article pointing out the artificiality of the Chinese official usage, but I do have a problem with the fact that the section dealing with this is almost incomprehensible. Could it be rewritten so that the issues become comprehensible? For instance, by discussing the range of terms that do exist and what their coverage is. Something like:

Tai peoples: Ethno-linguistic category covering xxxx.

Tai: Peoples referring to themselves as Tai, includes xxxx.

Dai: Chinese ethnic category, refers to Tai-speaking groups within China (in Yunnan).

Etc.

The main problem with Chinese ethnological classifications is that they are concerned with 'Chinese sovereignty'. The ethnic groups of China are part of the 'Zhonghua Minzu', and the Chinese authorities are mainly concerned with asserting their place within the Zhonghua Minzu as part of the Chinese state on Chinese sovereign territory, playing down their connections to coethnics who are not part of the Zhonghua Minzu (i.e., are not subject to Chinese sovereignty). Chinese usage thus needs to be elucidated, but not in the controversial and confusing way that is presented here.

Therefore, a paragraph (as suggested above) setting out the Chinese usage, a paragraph setting out the usage of the peoples themselves, and a paragraph setting out linguists' usage (which extends to the Zhuang, it appears) would be in order.

61.49.173.170 (talk) 23:13, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Leave your comment here if you want to discuss the term “Tai peoples”

removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV

I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:

This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
  1. There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
  2. It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
  3. In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.

Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 00:43, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

48 million in Thailand?

That would make them about 2/3 of the Thai population. Is there an extra 0 in that figure? Cameron Nedland (talk) 14:21, 13 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Java, Indonesia?

What's the reference for Tai/Dai dialect in Java, Indonesia? This is something I'm not familiar with, and I am from Indonesia. Thanks, XoXo (talk) 14:02, 31 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I just removed the statement about Tai/Dai dialect in Java, since there seems to be no reference about it added so far. Please add it back if you have the relevant reference. Thanks, XoXo (talk) 03:33, 23 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Hello,

most broad groupings are lacking a wikilink. What should be done?

Kind regards, --Sarcelles (talk) 10:33, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Nationalism and separatism

Please add about Dai Nationalism and separatism--Kaiyr (talk) 07:36, 15 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Mistake in article

There are also Dai people living in Pu'er City. Please fix. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 03:28, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There are also Dai people living in Pu'er City. Please fix. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 04:21, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"help relieve heat and heat"

What does "help relieve heat and heat" mean? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 04:21, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:24, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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