Talk:Jonathan Jennings

Jonathan Jennings has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
September 29, 2008	Good article nominee	Listed

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on March 27, 2024.

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Portrait?

Can we not find a better-quality picture? User:70.239.90.226 00:50 September 8, 2006

I got it from a 1909 book. If you can find a better one, go ahead. I looked and couldn't find one.--Bedford 00:54, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.statelib.lib.in.us/www/ihb/govportraits/jennings.html http://www.centerforhistory.org/images/indhistpics/jennings.jpg User:70.239.90.226 September 8, 2006

The problem is that the images must be free-use. The current pic is, as it was pre-1923. Those look too modern to be, and thus we can't use them. Yes, I know that's ridiculous and I agree, but someone would remove them. For now, we are stuck with the current.--Bedford 01:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I imagine the portraits on the State Historical Bureau website are in the public domain, since many of them were painted in the 19th century. In fact, many of the portraits shown in articles for early Indiana governors also appear in the Historical Bureau's Gallery.

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Jonathan Jennings/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

I'll be reviewing this article according to the GA criteria. If you have any questions, suggestions, or comments during the process, feel free to let me know. I'll be back after my initial readthrough. --Banime (talk) 14:41, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Initial readthrough

In my initial readthrough, I checked for the basic problems. The article contains reliable sources, the topic is not treated in an obviously non-neutral way, there are no cleanup banners, and it is not about a current event. One project has rated it Start-Class, however, which concerns me a little. However it could just be that Wikiproject Biography didn't get around to rating it again, as Wikiproject Indiana has it at B class. Article seems pretty stable and there are not any edit wars or vandalism to speak of. I see no reason for a quick fail, and I will now go much more in depth in my review. --Banime (talk) 15:00, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In depth review

I'm back with my complete review. I will use the GA Criteria as a guideline for my review to help with making improvements and focusing on what needs fixing. I also made a few fixes myself, which you can see by checking the edit history.

Well Written

Overall it seemed a little link heavy. Most links are only required if it adds to the understanding or context of the article. I removed any links I saw that were repeated or completely unncessary (like dates). You had governor of indiana linked a few times which I removed all but the first instance. If you see anything else that is repeated, remove the repeats and just keep the first instance linked.
- look good to me. This is one of the first articles I wrote on wikipedia, and many of my trials and errors are evident here! I have got alot of the problems out, but it appreciate what remains being pointed out to me. Charles Edward 02:22, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Early Life section: Something about this section seemed a little poorly written. Overall it wasn't bad, but go back through it and try to improve some of the prose. I think some sentences like: The same year he married Ann Gilmore Hay, the couple never had children. stood out as needing to be improved. I'll try to go through this myself as well and improve anything I can.
- gave it a good copy edit. Charles Edward 02:22, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the Battle against slavery section: Is the redlink to Thomas Randolph necessary? Are you about to create the article? If it is very close to being up, then keep it, but otherwise red links are almost completely useless. Only keep it if you're a few days from completing the Thomas Randolph article.
- It is my intention to write such an article, but have yet to compile enough information to write more than stub, which I hate to do. So I am waiting. Link removed Charles Edward 02:22, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also in that section: Some of the prose needs improvement. Some of the lines that stick out to me: He alleged that one of the precincts did not follow proper procedures and their votes should be discarded, the result would have made him the winner.
- copy edited sectionCharles Edward 02:22, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the retirement section: Is the redlink necessary there? Most likely not, remove it unless you will be posting the article shortly.
- I have removed that link. I have been working alot on the Indian removals latley, and probably will write such an article in the near future. I will re-add the link at that time. Charles Edward 02:22, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The legacy section: Seems kind of small. One school was named after him, and he opposed slavery. I think his opposition to slavery is apparent throughout the rest of the article, and I'm not sure if even this section is required. Can you expand it?
- I want to emphasize his importance to the early development of the state. 1. His commitment to internal improvements nearly brought the state to ruin, but ultimately paid off. 2. He, more than any other single individual, except perhaps Pennington, was most responsible for banning slavery in the state. (about which I have wrote another GA, History of Slavery in Indiana). Both of which are indeed covered well within the article. I removed the section Charles Edward 02:22, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The See Also section: Do you think this section is necessary? I mean it states in other areas that he was an Indiana Governor, and he's part of the Indiana Governor category below, and so on. I'm not sure if See also: list of indiana governors is still required, or if its just sort of useless additional information that is already referenced all over the article. What do you (or other editors/reviewers) think?
- I have removed the link, but added see also History of Indiana. Reading that would do much to put Jennings in context. And the portal is definatly a keep. It is a featured portal and an excellent entrance from on a vital topic in the project.Charles Edward 02:22, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The External Links section: The first link goes to a 404 message.
- page moved, fixed it.

Also in the external links section: Two links were to the same website, so I removed one. Also, I removed some links to New York and Chicago, as they did not add to the context in any way.
- looks good Charles Edward 02:22, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Overall, just go through and try to improve the prose of the article. Any sentences that start with "But" are probably not good enough. I noted a few specifics above. Also, keep an eye out for improving how quotes integrate into the text (I outlined it further below too).

Factually accurate and verifiability

I'm guessing there's no source that has his exact date of birth?
- No, and I have looked everywhere. It is not even registered with Congress. So I am guessing he perhaps did not even know the day of his birth, or it was in the records destroyed in the war of 1812 by the british raid. Charles Edward 02:43, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the Congressman section: His motto needs a citation.
- Added, same as the next one Charles Edward 02:43, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the Abolitionist victory section: This sentence: In the election for Indiana's first governor, Jennings beat Thomas Posey 5,211–3,934. needs a citation.
- Added, same as the next one Charles Edward 02:43, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also in that section, the quote should be cited more clearly (immediately after). Also, read Wikipedia:Quote to make sure the quotes you have are proper. I don't think the length of that quote necessarily requires to be separated, it could just be within a paragraph.
- done Charles Edward 02:43, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the Treaty of St. Mary's section: This sentence: Jennings was "mortified" that his actions were questioned and he proceeded to burn all the documents granting him authority from the federal government. needs a citation, just like all quotes or sentences with quotes in them.
- fixed, same ref as the next proceeding ref. My method has always been, (admittedly incorrect at times), to write three or four sentences that may be from the same source, and to place the ref at the end of the last sentence, rather than at the end of all three or four. I should review the MOS for what always requires a ref at the end of a sentence. Charles Edward 02:43, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the Return to Congress section: Many of his friends thought that the stress of Washington caused him to drink more liberally. Who thought this? Citation?
- Source does not site which friends. The source is woollen. I reworded so cite the source in the claim. A similar claim is made by dunn.Charles Edward 02:43, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the references section: I don't think that ^ Hendricks was the first representative of the State of Indiana should be for a citation, perhaps another footnote for clarification if anything. But that's not a source.
- created a notes section and moved it there Charles Edward 02:43, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Broad in its coverage

This article is broad enough in its coverage.

Neutral

The article is NPOV.

Stable

No vandalism concerns or back and forth edit warring, topic is old enough to not have rapidly emerging information.

Illustrated, if possible, by images

The images are all public domain or have been released under a free license.

Is there a way to get clearer images for Jonathan Jennings grave and the militia picture? Right now you can barely read the name Jennings let alone anything else, and in the militia picture it's difficult to read and you can see the photographer's reflection. This will be especially important for FA status I believe, and I won't necessarily fail GA for it, I think it would be very very helpful.
- I can try to find one, for now I removed it

Is the picture of his home necessary? Seems just like a random sketch of an not too distinct looking home. Are there better pictures?
- That is the only image of it I know of.Charles Edward 02:47, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Put a small caption under the portrait of Jennings, something like "Portrait of Jennings painted by Forbes in 1819" or whatever.
- Done Charles Edward 02:47, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

- I added a commons tag at the external links and can be used to access the images I removed.

Decision

After reading the article in depth I've decided to put this article On Hold until it is improved. Keep me updated on the changes you make, and good luck. Thanks to all editors who are helping with this project. I'll be back in a week or earlier if the criteria are met before that. Keep up the good work. --Banime (talk) 20:49, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks you for your thorough review. I should be able to address all of these concerns within the next 24 hours. I will notify you then! Charles Edward 01:44, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sometime this week I'll take a better picture of Jenning's grave. It will give me an excuse to go to the Chinese Buffet I like in Charlestown.--King Bedford I ^{Seek his grace} 02:59, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Haha! Sounds good! I am going to try and go downtown Corydon to get a better picture of the Jennings Militia Commission. It's on display in the old statehouse. Charles Edward 03:02, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

One final thing

In the early life section: Many of Jennings' articles attacked Harrison's administration and its pro-slavery sentiments. Citation?
- same as one on end of pragraph. I duplicated it.Charles Edward 18:15, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - Thanks. I'll do my final readthrough now --Banime (talk) 18:17, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Besides that, all of your changes so far have been great and have really improved the article. Make this last change and I'll give it one final readthrough and make the final decision. Keep working on those pictures as well as that will definitely help for later. --Banime (talk) 18:10, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

GA Pass

After all of the improvements and having my concerns addressed, I am going to pass this according to the GA Criteria. Many thanks to all the editors, specifically Charles Edward for their help in building up and improving this article. Be sure to keep improving the pictures, especially as you go for FA criteria. Finally, I recommend User:Tony1/How_to_satisfy_Criterion_1a for help on improving prose for reaching FA status. Good luck and good work. --Banime (talk) 18:31, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Reference correction

The Notes section references the Randy Mills biography on Jennings; not "Miller", so I'll correct all the references for Miller as I copyedit this. I'll also fix the reference to "Keith Mills" - it should be Randy Mills instead.Rosalina523 (talk) 19:32, 30 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]