User talk:A.j.roberts

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ARBIPA sanctions alert

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Kautilya3 (talk) 22:46, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

@Kautilya3: Where did you find and paste that from, and what relevance does a historic Requests for arbitration/India-Pakistan have with my talk page? A.j.roberts (talk) 09:08, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

A.J.Roberts, I notice that you have been around for a while but you don't have that many edits. You are probably not experienced in how things work in contentious areas. So you need to listen to experienced editors when they give advice.

"Caste system in India" is an India-related page and, so, ARBIPA sanctions apply. What that means is stated in the second paragraph of the notice. Please read it carefully.

You need to know and apply all the relevant Wikipedia policies. So, when editors cite a policy to you (often by indicating a blue link in their message), please make sure you read and understand the policy. If you don't understand the policy or how it applies in the context, please feel free to ask for explanation. You can ask the editor, or at the Teahouse or Helpdesk, or any administrator.

As a first step, please read and follow WP:BRD. Talk page discussion is the first step in resolving disputes. Only when that is exhausted can you go to WP:DRN. Only when that fails can you request Formal Mediation. Your attempt to do these things is premature, and those requests will be declined. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 11:40, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Pinging admins SpacemanSpiff, NeilN, Vanamonde93 for any additional advice they would like to offer. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 11:40, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

A.j.roberts: Kautilya has largely covered the issues here, but let me just add that ARBIPA sanctions mean that editors are on a far tighter leash on topics such as caste in India than they would be elsewhere. You need to be very careful to follow policy in all that you do, and particularly if a certain policy is pointed out to you, you need to read it carefully and abide by it. Regards, Vanamonde (talk) 11:46, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Vanamonde93: The article, as it stands, contains a couple of factual errors, see talk, that lean toward violating WP:NPOV, while giving "DNA/genetics are not acceptable for this article" or "Why are you citing stuff from the 1800s?" as a reason to revert attempts to correct the article, doesn't help. A.j.roberts (talk) 13:05, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

November 2017

Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war on Caste system in India. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

Also calling non-vandalism a vandalism is personal attack, read WP:NOTVAND. Capitals00 (talk) 07:11, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

I've asked for this to be mediated (Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation/Caste_system_in_India), as giving "DNA/genetics are not acceptable for this article" as a reason to revert an edit that adds current, reputable secondary sources, summarising the latest Genetic research in to historic observation of caste laws, is little else. A.j.roberts (talk) 08:24, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Formal mediation has been requested

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Request for mediation rejected

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Copyright problem on Education in the Republic of Ireland

Some of the content you added to the above article appears to have been copied from http://www.erc.ie/1983/01/19/vol-17-1983/, which is not released under a compatible license. Copying text directly from a source is a violation of Wikipedia's copyright policy. Unfortunately, for copyright reasons, some content had to be removed. Content you add to Wikipedia should be written in your own words. Please leave a message on my talk page if you have any questions. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 11:37, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

I don’t recognise that sentence, I shuffled a few existing ones around, and grabbed some from the linked Wikipedia pages, need to check the history. A.j.roberts (talk) 15:23, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

ok, it was meant to be a quote, there’s a ref to it, “ref name=nbe” must have got distracted, and was from almost the same place: http://www.erc.ie/documents/vol17chp2.pdf, will be more careful. A.j.roberts (talk) 16:00, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Your edits to Timeline of scientific discoveries

Hi -- I saw your edits on Timeline of scientific discoveries. Some comments:

• "Eyeglasses" seem to be more appropriate for the "Timeline of historic inventions" article.
• I don't think Roger Bacon's work should be categorized under "Optics" -- seems to be more commonly known as having to do with the philosophy of science.
• Perhaps you should more clearly describe Robert Grosseteste's work: what, specifically, were the new methods regarding the production of lenses that he discussed?
• What were the specific new laws or scientific principles that were found in Ptolemy's Optics?
• The modern (post-1800) ones are good, thanks.

Chan-Paton factor (talk) 15:09, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

If it helps:

* Ptolemy's Optics included the first known table of refractive angles.

* Eye glasses are an invention, though one that required individually applied optical principles, to compensate for every customers specific disability (prescription). One lens doesn’t suit all.

* Bacon’s contributions to optics, and science are more to the scientific method, than any particular discovery, in verifying, and documenting how he did, the collected earlier works, and asserting, as his page quotes “theories supplied by reason should be verified by sensory data, aided by instruments, and corroborated by trustworthy witnesses"

I’ll add a few words.

A.j.roberts (talk) 16:29, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

OK, some comments:

* I have divided the stuff on the Almagest into multiple entries, in line with the convention used in the article. The refraction tables were already mentioned wrt Ptolemy's Optics.

* The cardinality of natural numbers is *not* greater than the cardinality of the even or odd numbers. This is just a mathematically false statement, and is not a scientific discovery.

* Re: Bacon, Grosseteste: right, like I said, their contributions are better categorized as "philosophy of science" than "optics". I'll make a section for it.

* Is there any evidence that early eyeglasses involved a "knowledge of human biology"?

* I agree the original leads were too long and non-objective, but they should not be removed completely. It's important to landmark specific events and historical periods of importance, like the Scientific Revolution.

I'll make some edits. Chan-Paton factor (talk) 16:20, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

* on Eye glasses, many a source cite Roger Bacon as a source, e.g. https://www.college-optometrists.org/the-college/museum/online-exhibitions/virtual-spectacles-gallery/the-invention-of-spectacles.html Though Differentiating between short / long sightedness is attributed to Aristotle Near-sightedness#History

* on the section leads, agree, ditto for images, but they need to be non-political, and referencing actual works / progress, and depicting inventions, not contemporary artistic renderings of an inventors legend, essential no WP:PEACOCK Goldens.

* on infinities, my mistake.

A.j.roberts (talk) 07:50, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

I guess you could mention Roger Bacon's possible contribution under the entry for eyeglasses. Perhaps a better source is needed though, I don't know. Chan-Paton factor (talk) 08:11, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Edit war

Look -- if you're actually interested in getting your edits through on Timeline of historic inventions, then trying to force them in while discussion is underway on the talk page isn't going to help you. It doesn't matter if you think that DONTREVERT is on your side (it's not a Wikipedia policy, BTW), but you will get reverted (because the edits are controversial, and they become intractable to check and keep up with), and you'll probably get blocked on that article for edit warring (and rightfully so). Calm down, read my proposed wording re:Skara Brae, and discuss exactly what it is you're planning to do. Chan-Paton factor (talk) 09:41, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Per my last post to the talk page, if you can find WP:RS that demonstrate the Indus Valley offers the earliest examples of: Mudbricks, clay Mortar, Dice, Communal drains, Indoor plumbing, ... and reliable dates are offered that predate the Egyptian, Levant, Scottish, examples, I’ve added, or alternatively that the cited dates for the earlier non-Indus examples are incorrect, I’ll happily let you remove the prior work, per WP:CONSENSUS, but till then please Wikipedia:DONTREVERT, the currently cited earlier examples. A.j.roberts (talk) 09:56, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Except I am not claiming that the Indus Valley does offer the earliest example of any of those, I (and everyone else there) am claiming that it is uncertain, and that this uncertainty should be acknowledged. There is also no reliable date for the Skara Brae toilets, 3100 BC is the date of settlement (just like 3700 BC is for Lothal). Chan-Paton factor (talk) 20:45, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Have you a WP:RS citation for that 3700 BCE date, you’ve now asserted twice, for the construction of the port of Lothal, as the ASI submission to UNESCO, and published on the UNESCO site sates the port was constructed c.2400 BCE. Similarly the cited, median, radio carbon dates for the contents of the Skara Brae drain are around 3000 BCE, and both those dates are widely reproduced, in reliable sources.

A.j.roberts (talk) 05:42, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

1. I did not claim that the Lothal port was built 3700 BC, I claimed that the pre-Harappan culture at Lothal started in 3700 BC, and that no precise dating exists for either the Lothal port or for Skara Brae.

2. Your UNESCO source does not claim it was built 2400 BC, it claims that the Harappan culture at Lothal started in 2400 BC.

3. You have not provided a source for "the cited, median, radio carbon dates for the contents of the Skara Brae drain are around 3000 BCE".

Look -- at this point, it's getting repetitive. I'm just going to go through with the phrasings I've put up on the talk page. Comment there if you have anything new to add. Chan-Paton factor (talk) 07:29, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

It is getting repetitive, but if you want to substitute 3700 BC for the 2400 BC occupation date offered in the UNESCO entry, and Mario et. Al paper you will have to find a WP:RS for the Lothal dockyards construction, not a date for the Indus Civilisation, and cite it.

A.j.roberts (talk) 17:23, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Again, neither Mario et al nor the UNESCO entry claim that Lothal was first occupied 2400 BC, both agree on the existence of a pre-Harappan culture at the site before 2400 BC, and the only source that does attest an occupation date for Lothal (the press comment) specifies 3700 BC.

Again, there is no precise dating of the dock -- or of Skara Brae.

What part of this exactly do you not understand? Chan-Paton factor (talk) 17:29, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

The comment in that news item does not offer a date for the construction of the Lothal dockyard, or the settlement at Lothal, simply a date for habitation in the region:

“ We have found several Harappan sites, including Lothal, along the Gulf of Kutch dating back to 3700 BC.”

The UNESCO entry and Mario et. Al. Paper refer explicitly to the Lothal Dockyard, and offer dates for occupancy of Lothal; you should be looking for any WP:RS that follows this pattern, but with your preferred 3700 BC date, if you still want to substitute the present value, and assert the docks were created prior to those on the opposite side of the Indian ocean.

A.j.roberts (talk) 18:00, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

"The comment in that news item does not offer a date for the construction of the Lothal dockyard, or the settlement at Lothal, simply a date for habitation in the region" -- Yes, this is precisely what I am saying. A dating for the dock doesn't exist, this doesn't mean the entry should be omitted. You are ignoring objections to your edits and engaging in disruptive editing.

"The UNESCO entry and Mario et. Al. Paper refer explicitly to the Lothal Dockyard, and offer dates for occupancy of Lothal" -- this is a misleading statement. They also do not offer dates on the construction of the port, and they do not assert that Lothal was first occupied in 2400 BC.

Chan-Paton factor (talk) 18:06, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

So given those two WP:RS state the site was occupied from approximately 2400 BCE, is your 3700 BCE, or my adoption of the consensus 2400-2000 BCE dating for the construction of the Lothal Dockyard the most encyclopaedic?

A.j.roberts (talk) 18:22, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

They don't state that. What part of this do you not understand? Chan-Paton factor (talk) 19:08, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Have a look at my suggested phrasings. Chan-Paton factor (talk) 17:18, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

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