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For closing the ANI thread here!

My RfA

Hi Keeper76! Thank you for your support in my RfA (87/3/3).

I truely appreciate the many votes of confidence, and I will exert myself to live up to those expectations. Thanks again!

- CobaltBlueTony™ _talk 17:56, 26 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

New Messages

Hello, Keeper76. You have new messages at Dustihowe's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Yet some more help wanted...

I just made this warning edit to Koalorka's talk page. Separate from the content dispute that was discussed on ANI (which by the way he is ignoring suggestions) he is accusing virtually anyone who disagrees with him of being a "Turk Nationalist" in talk and edit summaries. I believe these constitute personal attacks and I've warned him as such. I was going to mention that development on ANI, but I am questioning myself to its relevance. He's had his warning and I suppose if he continues to accuse editors of whatever he will be blocked in the near future. Should I just leave it as is now?Gwynand | Talk•Contribs 16:05, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well worded warning. I would simply keep an eye on it at this point. Give him about 10/20 more edits, paying attention to the contents but also the edit summaries. Hopefully, he'll heed the warning. If not, I'll give him a final warning template for civility and disruption/personal attacks. At that point, if he in his next 10 edits continues down the slope, I'll block. Sigh. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:10, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. I'm not one of those editors that just can't wait until user:X gets blocked... I think Koalorka may come to his senses and at least stop the personal attacks. Either way, I'll keep my eye on him. Thanks for the help/feedback. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs 16:13, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your input please

Yesterday, I again came across an issue when doing some RC patroll. I noticed in this edit that some edit warring was going. After looking at both users talk pages that they had been warned for this edit warring previously. I posted requests, as you can see above, for these users to cease editing, at least on the article until someone can look at the situation. You were already offline, at least I thought so, so I went to the admin who already warrned the users for him/her to handle. This user refused to cease editing the article, so I continually went in and tried my best to keep the article in the pure form (or how it was before the article went under edit warring) continually asking Fadiga09 to stop editing the page. I recieved no help from anyone else. Today I got on and saw that I was stripped of the Rollback button . What do I do? I was only trying to help and in the process find myself in a mess? I thought I was doing well with it and have used it numerous times to fix my mistakes and revert vandalism. Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 16:08, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm looking into this Dusti. For now, stop doing RC patrol. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:14, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Have stopped, right now I'm on idle looking at RFA and will comment on some AFD'sDusti ^{speak and be heard!} 16:15, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've posted on B's talkpage for feedback. My initial impression is that you went too far with rollback, which is meant for only simple vandalism reversion. It appears you stepped into a messy situation, in good faith tried to stop the war, and in that case, shouldn't have used rollback. A better move would have been going to WP:RFPP or WP:AN3 to get admin eyes on it. I'm hoping for feedback from B, I'll watch your page and his as well. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:26, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You know how they say hind-sight's 20/20? Yea, at the time, I thought that I was doning the best. Now, my question (and thanks for the kind words on B's talk page) is that I didn't use Rollback in a malicious manner and haven't used it inappropriatley before. Was this just a cautionary remove or permanent? Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 16:28, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing's permanent. I'm hoping for B's input, as I'm sure his action was justified. In the meantime, a lesson learned the hard way I suppose. Next time you stumble into a edit war, don't use rollback. Use noticeboards. Use talkpages. But don't join the edit war (even with good intentions, the result is generally that it just further fuels the ongoing fire). A moderator, be it outside eyes from another editor, or admin, needs to see the potential damage of reverting to one editor's version vs the other's. Using community granted tools to promote one version, or block a user you are in a dispute with, (either rollback or admin tools) is never a good idea. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:35, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And I don't doubt that it was justified as I would do the same thing he did, only differently (if that makes sense). I would warn the user who used the rollback first, and if it happened again - then I would remove it. I'm not crying over it, because I can still do RC Patroll without it, but it was nice to be able to laugh over an IP's vandalism and hit the rollback button that's now missing to my right. Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 16:38, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

<outdent>Related to this event, I found a couple of your posts to be worded awkwardly, namely this diff and this diff. I know what your intentions are with those two posts, but to say "please stop editing until you are contacted by an administrator", and "an administrator will be here shortly", and "cease until further notice" are generally not within your rights to say. Just my two cents to stick with more precise warnings. Let me know if you want me to explain this better. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:49, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I was doing what I could to get them to stop, so a polite but firm request to stop should have worked, and it did for Ultracanalla, but Fediga09 just wouldn't stop until he/she was blocked. Also, does anyone really have the right to say, "Stop Editing". Granted, Admin's can make this happen, but can they say Stop Editing? Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 16:57, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Generally no, you can't say "stop editing". You can say "stop edit warring", or "stop editing disruptively", even "your edit warring is being reported". But to just say "stop editing", and adding "until further notice", is rather harsh, dontcha think? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:00, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe, but considering the circumstances and what I had to work with, what else was I to do. At the time, WP:3RR wasn't going to do much, due to the large number of reports (it would have taken forever), WP:AIV would have been good (looking back) and granted, there is always WP:ANI. Just imagine if these guy's were in the same room!!! EMT's and Police with stun guns and tear gas couldn't have done anything. Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 17:05, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am considering the circumstances. Yes, there's a backlog at 3RR, but it wouldn't have "taken forever". Even if it did take a couple of hours, even a day, all it would have done is gotten both users blocked instead of one (assuming both continued their war), and you'd still have rollback. First and foremost in moderating a dispute is to realize that there is no emergency. It's one article amidst millions. It will get stopped if reported. I'm not saying you shouldn't leave warnings, leaving a warning when you stumble into an edit war is a good thing, I was merely commenting on the wording of your warning. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:10, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How long do you think it will be until I can get my Rollback back? (almost a tounge twister :-) ). Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 17:11, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Still haven't heard from B. In the meantime, how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? If you can answer this correctly, I'll consider your request. :) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:17, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If I remember correctly, A Woodchuck would chuck as much wood as he could if a woodchuck could chuck wood. Thanks for the smile :) Did I answer correctly? Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 17:20, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nope. The correct answer is of course, a peck of pickled peppers to bring to the girl on the beach. You know who I mean. She sells sea shells by the seashore. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:22, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

<outdent> Oh, you mean Sally who sells sea shells by the sea shore, and Peter Piper who picked a pack of pickle peppers? How many pickle peppers did peter piper pick? Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 17:24, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The answer is 8. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:27, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Congrats, only, I can't change permissions, so your now a 'SUPER ADMIN' :). Now, about my request....Dusti ^{speak and be heard!} 17:30, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Meanwhile, do you know how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? I think I know. 0:) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 17:39, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

3!!!, well at least it's my favorite number :) Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 17:41, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The correct answer is: "Either all of them, or none of them!" 0:) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 18:45, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Are you there keep or are you counting pickles? :) Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 18:53, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello? Keeper, wake up!! Are you alive? Dusti^{speak and be heard!}

20:22, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

216.229.227.141

Here's another one from that subnet that's asking for a block: [1] Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 16:24, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

poof*. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:31, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I especially liked his call for a Vandalism Allicance, even as there's a debate going on where some say that admins are too mean to vandals and that we should give them more chances to "reform". Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 16:38, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ah... I was just heading here to comment on your block being lenient, Keeper! ;-) Given the recent suggestions that users join the "Vandalism Alliance" I'd have thought a schoolblock would've been given! -- JediLofty ^{User ¦ Talk} 16:45, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm probably being too lenient. Such is Keeper. Maybe next time, as I'm sure there'll be one...:-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:52, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Conventional weapons can cost years, and millions of lives. Here's the solution:

Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 17:12, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If that's the solution you're looking for, you've got the wrong admin. I'm no pacifist, not by a stretch, I'm a never say never (to reform) and probably too lenient in blocking. I rarely do it and have no plans to increase my activity in that arena. Unless the Twins keep losing. :) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:15, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You can pretty much tell in an instant what someone's future is, as an editor. Some apparent vandalism might be tests, so at least one warning is fair, maybe two, but no more. My argument on that page (duly ignored by everyone) is that there's too much time spent on dealing with vandals and not enough spent on actual edits. As far as the Twins go (Twingo?) ... well, there's still 5 months left. Don't give them a permanent mental block yet. :) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 17:23, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Archived delete debates

I am posting this on the talk pages of the editors (mostly admins.) who are keeping Wikipedia:Archived delete debates up to date most frequently: Consistent with the recent rename of Wikipedia:Deletion debates to Wikipedia:Deletion discussions (largely to have a title that is more civil, hopefuilly encouraging a more civil tone in them), I would like to rename Wikipedia:Archived delete debates to Wikipedia:Archived delete discussions via a move. Any objections? Reply here, and hearing none I will let you know when complete so you can continue your good work of keeping the page up to date at its new location. UnitedStatesian (talk) 18:35, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the post! No objection from me. Sounds like a good move, I'm all for consistency. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:43, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Move completed. Thanks. UnitedStatesian (talk) 21:38, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

216.229.226.52

And yet another one. [2] Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 18:55, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You are a magnet aren't you? Only 2 edits total though, been watching for the last hour. Your userpage got fixed right away, post #2 was actually legit (just needed formatting). Keep an eye out though, it might change again...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:15, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it must have just been a drive-by. It's nice to know I have some guardian angels. Either that, or they're just keeping an eye on me. I've been known to go off my meds from time to time. >:) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 20:21, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect Question

Is this an appropriate re-direct? I'm leaning toward no, but can't find anything that says so concretely TRAVELLINGCARI^{My story}_{Tell me yours} 19:36, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, redirects should not cross from one space to another (ie project space to userspace, and viceversa). Can lead to confusion. And, it's impossible to leave a note for ~~scapegoat~~ cheeser to tell him that. Someone will come along and switch it most likely. I don't wanna get involved in it if I can help it Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:48, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I thought as much but couldn't find anything other than the essay which didn't really have an answer. PS: lovely football game last night in the Bronx that I quite enjoyed. So tired and cold by the time we left, but it wa sa good cold with a W TRAVELLINGCARI^{My story}_{Tell me yours} 19:55, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I just removed the redirect after thinking about it a bit. And unrelated, you must be tired and cold, seeing as how "football" season (reread your post) doesn't start for several months...:-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:57, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I was rooting for a couple more runs so that this game could outscore the super bowl for the laughter factor :) The Angels were in the 4th by the time we finished at 11:15 NY time and Toronto was in the 12th. Gotta love the marathons TRAVELLINGCARI^{My story}_{Tell me yours} 20:13, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, now I get it, didn't realize the score was up there...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:18, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

At least the Yanks-Sox game was moderately close. I saw a Twins game once where the Dome Team won over Cleveland by 24-3 or some such. And being indoors, there was no good excuse to leave early. But I did anyway. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 20:25, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've only left early once and that was because of a bus trip == and I didn't like the idea of walking home :) Considered it one game in April a few years back where it was in the 20s -- but I didn't. There was a Yankees - Tampa game that was a killing like that, I haven't been to too many massacres. Am sure tonight will end up 1-0 or something. TRAVELLINGCARI^{My story}_{Tell me yours} 20:35, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure this was great entertainment for the TweetyBird fans....Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:38, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That was the game that convinced the Orioles had become what they once were - the St. Louis Browns. It was also entertaining to see a news article that talked about the June 29, 1897, game between the Chicago Colts (later Cubs) and Louisville, in which the Chicagos edged out their opponents 36-7. Louisville doesn't get much baseball coverage nowadays. And by the way, the Colts lost the other two games in that 3-game series. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 20:52, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here's the line score for June 29, 1897. It was at Chicago, but the Colts elected to bat first, as was allowed at that time. Hence they got to bat at home in the 9th inning despite already leading 28-7. The Colonels apparently used only 2 pitchers in the game. The Colts' pitcher threw a complete game. No game for sissies on those days:

CHI 3 5 7 1 2 1 2 7 8 - 36
LOU 0 0 1 0 5 0 1 0 0 - 7

Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 21:03, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The game I saw was actually 23-2, on June 4, 2002. [3] They left Reed in through 7. Prior to that it was "close", but the Twins scored 10 in the 7th so they felt safe taking him out. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 21:09, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

RE: Doin' alright?

If this were anyone else, they'd recieve a TL;DR of total flaming. But, you're Keeper. Hehe.

No, not really. 21 655 ^{ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ?} 20:49, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking this out. No, seriously. Freakin' IRC users trying to make me look like a fool. But it doesn't matter, as I'm banned from it for a while anyway.

Yes, that's what triggered the wikibreak. It'll get clearer once I'm done writing my vent essay.... 21 655 ^{ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ?} 17:17, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I hate IRC. Never been involved with it, find it rather dubious. My userpage says as much. Consider yourself fortunate if banned. Looking forward to the vent essay....Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:19, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

		What a Brilliant Idea Barnstar
		For creating that /Vent subpage. I really needed to get some freakin' steam out. Thanks! Also, for suggesting the .01 Cabal. 21 655 ^{ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ?} 17:53, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's the sign that I'm done... 21 655 ^{ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ?} 17:57, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

VP=? 21 655 ^{ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ?} 19:09, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Article writing, feh! I know nothing about it. Exclusive VP for me, and lovin' it...Also, I need to create that 0.01 cabal. Check the barnstar; I update it.. 21 655 ^{ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ?} 19:14, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rollback Request

I am requesting to have the Rollback permission replaced on my account. I was unaware of the indepthness of the issue that I was getting into yesterday. The admin who took action yesterday and removed from my account is unavaliable at this time, and has stated that I may reapply for use of the tool again. I am finding it aggravating to attempt to revert vandalism and having to go through the undo function. Thanks for your consideration. Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 20:50, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry my friend, I'm a bit biased and don't need the potential hassle. I recommend waiting a few days (minimum), then reapplying at WP:RFR. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:55, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

watching my user page

Thak you very much, man :) I need to take a few wikibreaks, so I can't take as much care as usual of stuff --Enric Naval (talk) 20:56, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. I can't promise I'll revert vandalism within seconds or minutes, but it surely won't ever be three days again. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 21:05, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WP:100

Yeah, it feels nice. But I doubt 700 is going to happen. Besides, knock on wood, my last one looked about the same at this point (if I remember right). Nothing is guaranteed. Thanks for the confidence though :) VanTucky 21:29, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Were I an admin...

... should I mark this this as closed after the comment I made? It appears to be a content dispute with very little time attempting discussion prior to A/NI, and in the particular case, no real incivility or innapropriate behavior yet. The only thing I worry about is inflaming the situation by a quick resolve which may bother the reporter. How do you handle such situations? Gwynand | Talk•Contribs 14:36, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I commented there. I think Gene feels slighted that a page move happened without consensus or prior discussion. Then went to AN/I without prior discussion. Just reading his post makes me feel liek there is some definite history there...we'll see how he/Husond respond at this point, it's certainly not resolved (but I do strongly agree with you that it is the wrong venue). Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 14:53, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I agree the issue at hand is not resolved, but didn't know if it should be marked as such to discourage a content dispute discussion to continue on AN/I. I'm beginning to realize that tons of AN/I posts are mostly overblown content disputes... at the same time I realize that simply ignoring them or marking them resolved may only serve to inflame the issue. Thanks for the help here. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs 14:57, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yesterday's Issue

Seems to have blown over now. I spoke, well typed to, B and explained my point of view. You can see is response on his talk page, which I think your watchlisting? Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 14:56, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yesterdays's issue always blows over, just as yesterday's newspaper lines the catbox. As for rollback rights, that's what I was assuming B would do (not so soon maybe, but still, all's well!). A good mini-lesson that I hope you will pick up on: The vast majority of admin's are very hesitant to undo the actions of other admins without hearing first from the acting admin. "B" made an admin decision regarding your account. I noticed that you asked at least three other admins to restore your rollback rights, even though I said "let's wait for B". I even went a step further and posted on "B's" talkpage. B was offline, the world didn't end overnight without rollback rights. (yesterday's newspaper). Did any of the admins you asked fulfill your request before B replied? (You know the answer to that question). When you are an admin, you will have editors that you work very well with come to you and ask you questions, ask for coaching, ask for help, and ask for advice. Give it to them! However, once your an admin, if your editor friends ask you to "undo" another admin's good faith actions, I strongly recommend you remember this situation, remember that I kindly declined your request to override B's actions, remember that Andonic didn't reply, remember that Jéské Couriano declined. The same will be expected of you as an admin from your fellow admins, so to avoid being the subject header in ANI, remember this. Anywho, it's yesterday's news. Cheers, glad you're back in business! Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:05, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe I'm under-utilizing rollback, but I find that its main use is simply saving a few keystrokes. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 15:13, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I never user rollback. Maybe twice, three times? I don't do a lot of RC/VP though, just whatever pops up in my watchlist of around 1500 articles. I usually catch the first contrib, so undo works just fine for me. It does have value for those that do a lot of patrolling I've been told. But yeah, it's just keystroke efficiency. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:15, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tee hee. I just did rollback of tan's last two edits, for irony. I'm going nucking futs. (But Tan, you did replace my comment above with yours....:-)Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:19, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's strange, I didn't get an edit conflict. Sorry about that. Tan | 39 15:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't either. Seemed perty obbvius, so I rollurbackt ur vanderlizums...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My main policy for being an Admin will be that I will almost never undo an Admin's actions unless they specifically say that that they are willing to have someone else reevaluate the situation. I really like my admin coach's policy, which you can see on his talk page. I'm the kind that you entrust someone with the tools, you trust them to make the right decision. I have actually asked the question in an RFA and !voted oppose for the response I got. I don't really see the need to undo an action unless there was a misunderstanding (like yesterday) or misuse of the tools. That may make my next RFA fail, I don't know. Do you agree or disagree? Tan, Keeper, Bugs, and whomever reads this. Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 15:51, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

But you didn't know if there was a misunderstanding. You had two admins (myself and B) saying there was probably a misuse. I asked you to wait for B. You asked three admins to restore rollback before B could defend/represent his actions. I hope as an admin you wouldn't give in to the kind of pressure that you put on others regarding this little rollback feature. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 15:54, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

<outdent> I'm the kind of person who never gives into pressure. I would have honestly done what you did, and my asking the other admins to restore it was inappropriate. The best course of action would have been to wait for B to come online and discuss it with him (which I later did) and look at what happened! Granted, I won't always know if there is a misunderstanding, but I will look in depth to the situation and make my decision. If it looks like there was room for error, I would contact the admin and ask what was up. I would wait for a maximum for two days though, after that I would seek someone's opinion. You can last for a day or two without a technical feature. Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 15:57, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(ec w/ keeper)Dusti, I'd like to comment here. You are repeatedly suggesting that B misunderstood you, or even that he didn't understand the situation. That was not the case. The use of rollback is very serious, and you should admit to yourself that if you were going to be using it often then you should know the rules regarding it. Becoming involved in that edit war and rolling back non-vandalism should be taken very seriously. If anything, taking away your rollback was totally neccesary to help you understand the gravity of your error, which I'm not sure you are to this point. As I said yesterday, I believe you always act in good faith, but at the same time I think you should be taking this more seriously. B understood what he was doing and his removal of your tools had nothing to do with the fact that you were acting in good faith, but with the fact that you were misusing the tools and breaking policy. Although this was already brought up, campaigning for other admins to give you back your tools while B was AFK was also innapropriate and I don't believe showed recognition of your error or why he temporarily removed the tools. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs 16:00, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe you didn't get to read what I wrote above. I understand why he removed it, because it appeared that I was edit warring as well. I used it to try to control a situation, which was inappropriate. I explained to B that I was sorry and I understand what I did was wrong. Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 16:05, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

But Dusti, you technically were edit warring, that's what I'm trying to explain. Good faith or bad faith has nothing to do with that. A major issue across all of wikipedia is editor's who inadvertently edit war because they think they are helping a situation. Also, I did read everything you wrote above. I'm trying to help you here, as I can see you want to become an admin some day. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs 16:11, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I understand that now. At the time, I was under the impression that I was doing more good than bad, but now, I was just like the other users who couldn't get along. What do you think of the situation below? Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 16:13, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, first I want to say that your constant pleasant attitude is commendable. In terms of temperament, you'd be a the top of the list of editors, admin or otherwise. You clearly have taken the whole issue seriously and have made several edits discussing it, all very healthy. The clarifications I was making were also well responded to and I believe understood. I think the situation now is very good!Gwynand | Talk•Contribs 16:18, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, but I was actually referring literally to the below situation titled "We have an Imposter". lol :) Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 16:20, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As I said before, just to throw it out there, I'm not sure why people think rollback is "a very serious" thing. It saves seconds on a reversion - yay. It's some weird WikiCultural thing that everyone takes it so seriously. Tan | 39 16:15, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry, you are totally right. I meant to imply that abuse or improper use of rollback can be a very serious thing. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs 16:19, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, yes, but that's on rollback generically - whether or not you have the "rollback function", you can edit war. My comment wasn't anything to do with Dusti above (I really didn't even look into that situation, I generally avoid drama that doesn't involve me directly), but more of just an off-the-cuff comment about Rollback(tm). I don't understand why "giving rollback" or "taking it away" is such a big deal when it's such a small thing for which to have privileges. Tan | 39 16:22, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say it's possibly a larger issue that is too complicated to discuss (or unnecesary between the two of us). Agreed though, general abuse is the main issue, not really anything specific to do with rollback. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs 16:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not that I'm not enjoying all the orange new message bars....:-) Please don't check my contribs today, I believe 90% or higher are to my own talkpage. Sheesh. Aren't there any articles anywhere that need fixin? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ha, I think it happens to editors who have a highly watchlisted talkpage. Feel important. :-) Tan | 39 16:37, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You did that on purpose. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:38, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We have an imposter

Almost laughable, what should be done? This is just halarious. I'm also an official representative of Oprah Winfrey. Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 16:11, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am Oprah Winfrey. In all seriousness, it looks like enough eyes are on it. I'm at my capacity for ridiculousness for one day, especially a Friday. Not getting involved. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:21, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh my, Your Oprah Winfrey!!??!! Can I have your signature? How much does it cost? :) Let me get my checkbook out!! :) If it goes much further, I'm going to have to take it to WP:ANI because this dude's going way too far. I've watchlisted his page. I see that he's starting to be noticed now... Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 16:23, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

More of my unsolicited two cents: people "taking things to ANI" when it really doesn't involve them just adds to WikiDrama. I say this because it's becoming a serious problem on here - editors are completely losing sight of the reason for Wikipedia, and using it as some sort of strange social forum where they spend all day fixing "problems" amongst each other. Tan | 39 16:29, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I was just about to post something similar. Don't take it to ANI. It's not an "incident" yet, eyes are on it, it will resolve. Your mantra today Dusti is "yesterday's newspaper, yesterday's newspaper, yesterday's newspaper...". Also, read WP:TIND. Not rushing + not panicking = not dramatic. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Even better essay to read, WP:PANIC. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:32, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmmm, lemme get out a diet coke and settle down for some reading. Back in a min. Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 16:34, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just popped the top of a room temp DMD me self...tasty. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:36, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

To you above about the pretty orange message bars, I don't get them too often anymore (which is good :) ) and to the above reading, I see. Puts a new perspective on things. I'll sit back, relax, and get my fingers ready for some article changes :). Thanks Keep, have you gotten a Barnstar lately? How about a cookie or smile? Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 16:39, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dusti^{speak and be heard!} has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Cheers, and happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Deleted edits?

Could you explain to me exactly what a "deleted edit" is? Also, is there any way for me to view my own deleted edits? Gwynand | Talk•Contribs 17:01, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In case Keep is offline, a Deleted Edit is an edit that you did, like tag an article for deletion and the article gets deleted. I believe the only way that you can see deleted edits is if your an admin. Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 17:04, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dusti is right. If you mark something speedy, and the admin deletes it, your "contrib" to that article is no longer part of your "contribs", it's part of your "deleted contribs". I have a magic little button that allows me to see everything you've contributed that has been deleted. To answer your original question, how can you view your own deleted edits? Get yourself added here. :-) (Actually, if you request an admin to do it, we can give you a manual list. Takes forever. Please don't ask me, they're not that interesting...:-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:11, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Haha... I was just thinking I should run for admin today, and for my answer to Q1 state that my only reason for wanting the mop is so I can view my own deleted edits. It might work!Gwynand | Talk•Contribs 17:22, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'd vote support. Go ahead! :) lol Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 17:23, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(e/c) I'd vote support for that, if only so that it wasn't snow closed. Prolongs the abuse. :-). Actually, I think you'd make a great admin, and have told you so before. But don't self nom. And don't do it today. And because I'm a snoop and can't help myself, I looked at your deleted contribs. You need more of them. Why? It shows successful activity in CSD, PROD, and AFD. If things you nominate for deletion actually get deleted, it shows you know policy and are careful with your nominations. How? Go here, here, and here! :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Take a peek at mine Keep, how does mine look? Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 17:27, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Don't worry, I was being totally facetious. If I ever run, it won't be until at least a few more thousand edits and after my baby is born, and even if then, it would never be a self nom. I often vote at AfDs, but I'm not a big fan of nominating them... maybe I'll try a few more. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs 17:30, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Be sure to let me know when you do, I'll Co-nom (or nom) you if you wish. Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 17:33, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, can you take a look at my deleted contribs and lemme know what you think? Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 18:09, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Asking twice? Yikes, I suppose I hafta look...Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:47, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

:) Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 18:51, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just looked through. You have around 500 deleted edits, mostly from speedy tags that were agreed with by an admin. The vast majority of them are still red links (with maybe 4-5% of them now reappearing as bluelinks. (usually because someone has recreated a page that you speedy nommed). I checked thru the blues, the ones that have been recreated have now survived AfDs in some cases, none that need to be revisited (legitimate articles now - nothing wrong with you tags necessarily, just recreated the right way most likely). A few were recreated incorrectly, and I've gone ahead and deleted those again (2 or 3 at the most). When you look at your contribs on your preferences tab, the edit count there doesn't include deleted contribs, so mentally, as of this date, you can add about 500 to that number for your "total" contribs. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:07, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm dumb here lol....so that's good then right? Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 19:19, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What you want the summary and the judgment? Glutton for punishment are we? Yes, it's good. It shows that you know how to correctly nominate something for speedy deletion. If/when you get time, go back through your regular contributions and find your speedy nominations that were declined and add those up. It should be relatively low compared to those that are deleted. You should aim for about a 95% success rate, so doing some quick math, your regular contributions should contain no more than 15-20 declined speedies. I'm not digging through all those contribs though, you'll hafta do that yourdamnself. :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:24, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Point-One Cabal

If you haven't already any allegiance with any other cabals, you might want to check out my newly-formed cabal. 21 655 ^{ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ?} 19:42, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, snap! My very own cabal! My only prob is that I'm not an enemy of BRC...lots of goodies in there (sorry if you've had bad experiences with any of em, I haven't...) Get rid of the enemies section, I'll join. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:45, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Done. 21 655 ^{ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ?} 21:32, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder if I should make it a counter-vandal cabal. But then again, you're not a CV person, so I'm not too sure about doing so. After all, it was YOUR idea. 21 655 ^{ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ?} 22:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also, what do you mean, "my bad" when you said you opposed both my RFAs? You had every reason! 21 655 ^{ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ?} 22:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well? What do you think? Should I? 21 655 ^{ωhατ δo γoυ ωαητ?} 12:59, 19 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Edit War at Nuclear winter

I have left a message on the users talk pages and on the article talk page. I most likely won't be on this weekend, and I think that one of the users is an Admin, so I would feel better if you could look into it. Thanks, Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 21:02, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I looked at this very briefly, inviting users that are in conflict to use the talkpage is a good move. I saw your post on the talkpage as well. I will be offline in about 1/2 hour until Monday (I desperately need a break anyway), so I won't be able to watch this either. But that's okay right? Remember today's mantra? Yesterday's newspaper, yesterday's newspaper, yesterday's newspaper... Thanks dusti, see you next week. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 21:05, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I just got a chance to get online today (saturday) and both users have refused to discuss anything on the articles talk page. For now though, it looks like the users have stopped any revisions to the page, so yesterday's news, yesterday's paper, yesterday's issue. Maybe they are done, if not, i'll have it watchlisted. Thanks keep, I seem to be learning some stuff from ya :). Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 19:30, 19 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gyorn

I was going to relist, but it got the point where I was really curious as to how long it could go on. You win a cookie for finally closing!

Doctorfluffy (fart in my face) has given you a cookie! Cookies promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a cookie, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy munching!

Spread the goodness of cookies by adding {{subst:Cookie}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Mmmm, tasty. Thanks for the snack, much appreciated. Happy editing, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:44, 19 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

MfD's

Ah, thanks for removing them, i'm still trying to get used to the whole process. I managed to delete things properly before but couldn't quitre remember so I put them up for MfD's ;) Thanks for the advice, happy editing. CycloneNimrod^talk? 18:09, 19 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have been doing some digging....

I am not sure about this, but I think This admin's actions are incorrect. What do you think? Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 16:12, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

thought I would throw this in there too. Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 16:20, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think I'm staying out of it. I don't know the subject matter, I don't know the editors involved. I would recommend you do the same, unless you happen to know the subject matter. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:22, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm staying out of it, as I tried to do the compromise thingy, and its kinda worked, a little bit of discussion. I'm talking about him using his admin powers to push weight around. Does this fit here? I just have an issue with him being uncivil, especially with my polite request. It was polite wasn't it? Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 16:25, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your request was fine. Did he respond to your request somewhere incivilly? All I saw was him deleting your request, which is perfectly acceptable to do, not incivil, and well within his editor rights (and has nothing to do with admin rights). In fact, him removing your comment was an acknowledgment of reading your comment. It is retained in his talk history. Nothing else needed, IMO Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:30, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Read the edit summary here. Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 16:33, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I hafta be honest, I kinda chuckled at that. It is similar to something I would have typed if someone posted a section on my talkpage with the header "Edit Warring". "Edit Warring" has an inherent assumption of bad faith in it, don't you think? It sounds quite negative. Perhaps in the future, "Hey there, I've noticed a dispute", or something of that sort would have garnered a more positive response from him. He didn't swear at you, I suppose that's positive. :-) I would let it go if I were you. He got your message, and since then, has been contributing to the talk page. Mission accomplished, as it were. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:38, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe, just maybe I could have picked a better title. Hmmmm..... chunky peanut butter or creamy peanut butter? Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 16:40, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sunbutter. :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:42, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Leave it to you to put a smile on my face. Thanks keeper...This template must be substituted, see Template:Smile for instructions Dusti^{speak and be heard!} 16:46, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well Well Well

You asked for an apology in my deitor review. No chance, apoligize for this: 'Do your "high aspirations" include telling someone to fuck off when they approach you with constructive criticism?' That was really rude and don't expect an apology until I get one. --FGWQPR (talk) 17:23, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You stated that you had high aspirations. Only a few edits before you told someone to fuck off. My question was an honest one. So was my question on your editor review Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:27, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just watch the Aprentice. I tell you they have high aspirations and they always tell people to fuck off.--FGWQPR (talk) 18:53, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And then usually right after that, they get told "You're fired". What's your point? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:17, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is possible to be angry and to be clever. You can be angry at your peers and aqqaintences but be a really succesful person accademically. --FGWQPR (talk) 19:38, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say that it's possible to be clever until you become angry. ;-) --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 19:43, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would say cleverness and anger come at different times, completely seperate but in the same person. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FGWQPR (talk • contribs) 19:45, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

<outdent>I'll just finish this whole thread with "it's possible to edit wikipedia without telling other editors to fuck off", however clever, aspiring, angry, or academically successful one views him/herself or wishes him/herself to be, as they are all irrelevant to Wikipedia. I can't think of a good reason to say "fuck off" on Wikipedia. And as long as we are relating it to real life inappropriately, I can't think of a job/occupation/career/aspiration that will last very long, or be very rewarding at least, where a person is telling their co-job/occupation/career/aspiration -ers to "fuck off". Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 19:51, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I must say one last thing. You have said fuck off proving your point wrong. :) --FGWQPR (talk) 19:58, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ha! Thanks for your levity. I have technically said "fuck off" more in this thread than I think I have in any other thread, you are completely correct. I appreciate your good humor. I did take a minute to read your editor review (at least those that reviewed you) and can see that you are a good editor, glad to see you being open to criticism and open to adoption/coaching, for what its worth. If you don't mind, I'd like to call all of this "water under the bridge". Agree? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:01, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed! --FGWQPR (talk) 21:19, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Quote

Funny now that anytime I come across something funny I think of you. Hmm.. Anyway, you might like Jeske's here. I was going to use it myself, but then I got a Friday quote. :) Rudget 17:35, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

heh, that is funny. I like Fridays too (I'm assuming it's the one in the box on your current userpage? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:38, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

:) Rudget 17:42, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Online?

I need some advice....Dusti ^{complain/compliment} 19:59, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm here, but barely....Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:06, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have adopted FGWQPR. Any thoughts where I should start?Dusti^{complain/compliment} 20:08, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Have you adopted anyone before? If not, some good reading is available WP:ADOPT, and this subpage for adopters. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:10, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And also, there is a resources section too, could prove helpful. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:12, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, I have never adopted someone before, but I feel that its going to be a good expierence, with this particular user. I have looked over those pages, and I think the first thing we are going to do is discuss what has happened over the past several days and where it applies in Wiki policies. You could have easily blocked him for being rude and uncivil, but you being good ol' keep kept your cool. Dusti^{complain/compliment} 20:15, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent place to start. And to clarify, I did in fact block him for being rude and incivil, to use your words. For 48 hours, if I remember correctly, read his talkpage. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:21, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I meant for the above comments :) Dusti^{complain/compliment} 20:27, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh. In that case, I have absolutely no reason to block him again, that hasn't even crossed my mind. We were having a very civil conversation from what I could tell. Had I blocked again, I would've been the subject of an ANI post for admin abuse for sure, as it would have been completely out of line for me to do that to him, as it would have been punitive instead of preventative at that point. So, yes, in that case, I guess keeper did keep his cool...:-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:31, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Good job! Any other thoughts? Dusti^{complain/compliment} 20:33, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

At the moment, I was just thinking that the cloud outside my window looks like a clownface. And I'm wondering if my two year old son is taking a good nap so that he won't be crabby when I get home from work...oh wait, you meant wiki? No. No more thoughts. You'll do fine. If your talkpage (and FGWQPR's) talkpages start getting cluttered with back and forth, you could create an adoption subspage in his userspace, other than that, go for it! Help him out, let him ask questions (and for the love, every time he asks a question, don't post here. You've adopted him, not me :-). Have confidence in what you know, use the Wikipedia resource pages for what you don't know. Don't guess at things, find the answers. Excellent practice for when you're an admin. (Notice I said when, and not if this time? :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:37, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No if? Wow, you seem to think I will be an Admin one day....hmmm... I won't come here if he asks a question, I'll look it up. And if I can't find it there, I'll make up an answer lol :). Dusti^{complain/compliment} 20:49, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers

For catching that little bit of nastiness :)... hope you're good —αlεx•mullεr 20:04, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. I'm doing well - haven't seen you around much since RfA, which may be a good sign I suppose - no ANI threads with your name in them...:-). Did you take a break or are we just in separate circles? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:06, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I was on holiday for about three weeks when I didn't edit at all, and now I've got exams pretty solidly through till the middle of June... I should be around fairly often until then, and I can foresee a lot of time over summer spent here (it's the holiday before my first year of university, so it's about 4 months long). I'm looking forward to getting much more involved in this once the time becomes available... though I'm finding catching up on recent controversies hard, we need an ANI "major incident" summary :). Anything seriously big change throughout March or the beginning of April? —αlεx•mullεr 21:07, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, you know, the usual stuff. Nothing that hasn't been seen before, or won't be seen again. I wouldn't worry too much about what you missed, there'll be plenty to go around this summer. :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 21:39, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rollback Question

since I seem to see it all over my watchlist these days? I know what it is from Wikipedia:Rollback feature and its assorted links, but why is it necessary? I like and use Twinkle and Friendly -- is Rollback really any better? Just curious? TRAVELLINGCARI^{My story}_{Tell me yours} 20:49, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If I may keeper, Rollback is a simple tool that makes reverting large amounts of vandalism easier. Some users seem to find it easier than using the undo function. I'm in love with the tool, but really it only saves a few keystrokes and is one click instead of two. Dusti^{complain/compliment} 20:52, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Dusti. Have you used Twinkle? Is it any different in terms of ease of use, etc? TRAVELLINGCARI^{My story}_{Tell me yours} 20:58, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I never (or at least rarely) use rollback. I personally don't see the big deal about it. I also don't have any scripts loaded (I'm a purist I guess, or perhaps a masochist). 100% of my edits are manual edits, even when I worked extensively at WP:DPL. So, meh? Maybe I'm not the right guy to ask. If you wanna try it out, say the word. You definitely would qualify as an "editor in good standing", I'd be happy to add +rollback to your account. It can be removed anytime by request as well if you don't want it. Actually, nevermind. I just added it. Try it out, read the WP:RBK to do it right. If you don't want it, don't use it. If it comes in handy once, it's there as an option. Fair warning though, when you click on "rollback" on your monitor, there is no "are you sure?" screen. It just says "rolled back" (or some such). Be sure of what you're doing. Oh, and Dusti. Cripes! Give me two minutes to answer questions on my own talkpage! Sheesh! :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 20:59, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Twinkle doesn't work with Internet Explorer. Oh and Keep, just type faster lol Dusti^{complain/compliment} 21:01, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Or, considering the average size of my posts, type less. :-) Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 21:02, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, you make sense. See you tomorrow :) Dusti^{complain/compliment} 21:04, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]