Talk:Indiana

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Be bold! Feel free to remove ANYTHING that doesn't have a footnote, because it's not vandalism - it's simply removing prohibited original research. ClairSamoht - Help make Wikipedia the most authoritative source of information in the world 04:10, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Just a small thing to change

Hello; I just wanted to suggest changing a small thing in the page that mentions Bedford as being the 'home area' of astronaut Gus Grissom. While this is technically correct, the (small) city that Gus Grissom came from, Mitchell, and the city of Bedford don't really like each other. I lived in Mitchell for years, and Bedford and Mitchell were certainly rivals, and Mitchell is very proud of Gus Grissom. So I'd suggest changing to perhaps say something like 'limestone quaries of Bedford (which is near in location to the home of Gus Grissom') or something like that. Thanks! ~Adrianna

I thought this was going to be about me for a while there. :D I'll look into altering. For the record, I'm from Jeffersonville.--Bedford 04:39, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Awesome, thanks a bunch. 'Lawrence County' works perfectly. :D ~Adriana

That table

That table really needs fixing. I'd do it, but I'm bad with tables. xyzzyva

Evolution of the Hoosier

Can anyone clear up the confusion to the evolution of the Hoosier? The noun, not the people. toby2080

No. Nobody has ever been able to clear up the "Hoosier question". There is a lot of speculation, some better than other, but no definite answer.

I've heard stories all my life ranging from the plausible to the fanciful. One of the former says that it comes from the pronunciation of "Who's here?" in the southern part of the state. One of the latter says that it comes from a barroom brawl in the frontier days where one of the brawlers' ears was cut off and someone held it up and said "Who's ear?" I doubt that it will ever be resolved.--MarshallStack 04:36, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Instead of "Who's Here?", I've always been told it was "Who's there?", which was what people in the southern part of the state would say when they heard a knock at their doors. --Stainedecho October 18, 2006

In the book:

Kleber, John E., et al. (editor) (2000). The Encyclopedia of Louisville. University Press of Kentucky. ISBN 0813121000. {{cite book}}: |first= has generic name (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

it is stated that the term comes from the 1833 poem "The Hoosier's Nest" by John Finley. That being said, it also states that Finley does not explain the origin of the word Hoosier. The article says that the origins are obscure and lists some theories. The first listed is that the word "Hoozer" (stated to be an English dialect word meaning anything unusually large) evolved to be a description of an unpolished person which could have applied to early pioneers. The second possibility is it being a derivitive of "Who's there". A third possibility listed is that it is derived from the word "husher" which refers to an Indiana settler who can easily defeat an opponent. The fourth possibility listed is that a Louisville contractor named Sam Hoosier favored Indiana workers and that those workers were called "Hoosier Men". --Chris24 02:04, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Additional time zone information.

This newspaper piece seemed particularly relevant to the time zone section of this article. -- Beland 07:24, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Timezone trivia-- For many years Spencer County has been in the Central zone and has used DST, yet St Meinrad Archabbey, located in the county and a major employer of the folk in its area, has used Eastern time without DST. As I am far removed from Indiana these days I don't know how this year's timezone tournaments may have affected Spencer and St Meinrad. Jm546 23:15, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

I am originally from Elkhart County - born/raised in Goshen and lived in Elkhart. South Bend/Mishawaka/Osceola/Elkhart/Goshen have effectively grown together into one metropolitan area that covers two counties, Elkhart and St. Joseph. There is much commuting between the two counties. Now St. Joseph County may be put into the Central Time Zone. This would effectively split a metropolitan area into two time zones and make commuting interesting, to say the least. Of course, Niles, Michigan, is regarded almost as a northern suburb of South Bend and since Michigan has observed Daylight Savings Time for many years, it will also affect people who live in SB and work in Niles, or vice-versa. Indiana's time zones are going to be crazier than ever.--MarshallStack 04:32, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

I added a bit about which counties are now on Central and which are still on Eastern, along with a link to a new timezone map produced by the Indiana Chamber of Commerce. It might be useful to place the map on this page, but I'm not sure about copywrite issues. ONUnicorn 21:35, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

One factural error & update: Only Pulaski [sp?] voted to declare home rule and stay on Eastern Time. (The other county just passed a resolution supporting all of South West Indiana [including the counties that had always been on Central], switch to Eastern.) Earlier this week, after the DOT said they would refer this to DOJ, Pulaski [sp?] reversed the decision, saying the govt office would observe CDT and "encouraged" the county residents to follow EDT. (And at the same time, making their office hours one hour earlier effective the date of the time change.) 168.166.196.40 14:52, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

As a netural observer, the fight over Eastern vs Central makes little sense to me; it's the least signficicant time zone boundary in the country due to the entertainment industry. In Eastern, prime time is 8 - 11 PM; in central it's 7 - 10 PM. 168.166.196.40 14:52, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

One reason that the Central v. Eastern time zone debate is such a big deal for Indiana is that Indiana is so far removed from the "natural" boundaries of the Eastern Time Zone. If one were to divide the world into 24 one hour time zones with the first one centered on Greenwich; then the western boundary of the Eastern Time Zone would come down somewhere around Mansfield, Ohio. Extending it west through rest of Ohio and through Indiana results in Indiana being off a solid 2 hours from "natural" time (i.e. the sun directly overhead at noon) when observing Eastern Daylight Time. Mhojo 19:52, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

"Liberal" vs "Democratic" Northern Indiana

I reverted the change from "Democratic" to "liberal". I am a native of Elkhart County and I can tell you it is most certainly not "liberal", outside the college communities of Notre Dame, Goshen College (both of which have a large percentage of non-native students) and Indiana University - South Bend.

South Bend itself is heavily Democratic but the outlying areas of St. Joseph County lean Republican. South Bend itself has had mostly Democratic mayors but Mishawaka has had mostly Republican mayors. Osceola, which borders Elkhart County, is safely Republican. I worked there for several years.

Elkhart County is as Republican as anywhere else in the state, due in part to the fact that the owners of most of the large RV corporations live there, and the Republican Party tends to be pro-management. I left there in 1999 but at that time the Democratic Party had closed its Elkhart County office. The counties east of Elkhart County, LaGrange and Steuben, are heavily Republican. West of St. Joseph County, LaPorte County often swings between Republican and Democratic dominance. Lake and Porter counties are primarily Democratic.--MarshallStack 05:00, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

There is rather too much POV in the Politics section. (It incorrectly links conservatism to the KKK, fundamentalism and farming. Well, no. The KKK died out pretty fast. Farming took longer but it's mostly gone, and the farmers never were conservative. The state's religion is not especially fundamentalistic. In fact the state is competitive and leans Republican, apart from presidential elections. (When the state was agrarian, those presidential elections were very close indeed). I suggest the GOP tilt in the north comes from the German element, which switched to the GOP when local hero Willkie ran in 1940. Rjensen 12:17, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps, but I was born and have lived all my life in Indiana and speak from experience. I grew up in the South Bend/Mishawaka/Elkhart/Goshen metro area and now live in a small town near Indianapolis. The small towns are very, very Republican. As someone of German descent myself, I would disagree with the comment that the GOP tilt in the north comes from the German element. Many of the German-descended people in the north are Amish or Mennonite, which I come from indirectly. The Amish and Old Order Mennonites (my grandmother was OOM) usually do not vote, and mainstream Mennonites tend to vote Democratic because they perceive the GOP to be the "war" party and contrary to their pacifist beliefs. I left Elkhart County in 1999 and at that time the Democratic Party had closed its office there simply because Elkhart County is so overwhelmingly Republican. As for the KKK, they are still active and hold rallies, though the pro-Klan attendance is minimal. They also have/had a "training camp" in rural St. Joseph County near Osceola that the St. Joseph County Sheriff's Department has received many complaints about. This is near where I grew up so again I speak from experience. And farming is still very much an influence in Indiana, especially in employment policy; the Indiana Farm Bureau is a very strong lobby in the state legislature. --MarshallStack 05:20, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Relatedly, that US 30 thing strikes me as just bizarre. I grew up in West Lafayette, now live in Chicago, and have mucked around all over the state my entire life. It's true that northwest Indiana is its own thing. But Fort Wayne is without question the most conservative large city in the entire state, and I see no cultural difference, aside from the Old Order communities, between northeast Indiana and the rest of the state. So I see nothing special about US 30 as a line of demarcation--and in fact I've never heard of such a thing until I read it here.

(Oh, and by the way, unrelatedly, there's probably an explosion in the Hispanic community in every city in the state. East Chicago is now practically all Hispanic. Lafayette now has a huge Mexican community--there's one elementary-school district in the city where the Mexican community is now in fact in the majority. And there's now even a big Mexican community in Frankfort, of all places. It's one of those surprising but important demographic changes, this recent appearance of significant Hispanic communities in small Midwestern towns (particularly Hoosier ones). So it seems weird to talk about Elkhart in particular in this respect, doesn't it? I'd just go and make the change, but I don't have hard data to back myself up.

--Mrpy 05:23, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

• Yes, there are Hispanic communities springing up everywhere except for here in Western Indiana, it seems. But, per capita, I haven't seen a growth in it like I have in Goshen/Elkhart. When I was growing up there as a kid in the 1970s, it was mostly German/Dutch majority - now it's increasing Hispanic majority.--MarshallStack 16:25, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

• Also, as far as US 30 goes, maybe I should have used US 6, but I'll stick by my decision. I have some experience in Fort Wayne, as I was in the Air National Guard unit there. Incidentally, people in my unit often referred to Decatur - south of Fort Wayne - as "Decaturtucky", and others agreed with me about US 30. Yes, Fort Wayne is conservative, but outside of Bloomington I don't think you'll find anywhere in Indiana that is genuinely "liberal" - after all, Fort Wayne has a military installation and is home to Concordia Seminary, which is part of a conservative Lutheran denomination (Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod).--MarshallStack 16:25, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

• I'm speaking from my own experience as the north viz. the southern part of the state. I was born in Goshen, lived in Elkhart and worked in South Bend. Now I live just off I-70 between Indianapolis and Terre Haute and have since 1999 (thank God we're moving to Michigan next year, this place is hell). Northern Indiana (and again maybe I should have used US 6 rather than US 30 as a demarcator) is definitely more like Chicago and Michigan. This part of Indiana is more like the Deep South - radio being largely limited to country and Rush Limbaugh unless you're near Indianapolis or Bloomington, Confederate flags and all. Kind of like a Jeff Foxworthy/Bill Engvall/Larry The Cable Guy joke come to life - except it's not a joke.--MarshallStack 16:25, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Pendleton a suburb?

Pendleton is a small rural community of about 3,800 people, and it is located about 30 miles away from Indianapolis. I really don't think it should be listed under "suburbs of Indianapolis." Also, I added Zionsville as a suburb.Spuddy 17 07:26, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

The definition of "suburbs" and what is considered "metropolitan Indianapolis" is constantly changing. Putnam County (county seat: Greencastle, home of DePauw University), about half an hour west, is now considered part of metro Indy, at least by the Indianapolis news media.--MarshallStack 05:23, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Indiana Crops

There's corn.

Soybeans are another important Hoosier crop. The two are used in rotation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.8.31.204 (talk) 22:02, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Source for history section

The "History" section was taken from the Catholic Encyclopedia. [1] It's in the public domain, but the source should be noted somewhere appropriate. I seem to recall a template for this purpose, but I can't think of it at the top of my head. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 23:58, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Interestingly enough, it's {{catholic}}. :-) I found it at Wikipedia:Template messages/Sources of articles. The page says to place it near the bottom of the article. Rfrisbie^talk 01:04, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I started a References section and placed the template there. Rfrisbie^talk 02:09, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Timezone map.

Until the other day, the timezone section had an image of a US timezone map with Indiana greyed out to show "Indiana Eastern Time". That map has now been updated to a current timezone map showing Indiana in the Eastern Timezone.

I don't want to revert, or start an edit war, especially since the current map is, well, current and correct. However, I think the old map, showing Indiana greyed out, should still be in this section of the article because it is of historical interest or could be in the future. A while ago I somewhat re-wrote the timezone section, making the explanation of Indiana's timezone controversy past tense, but not deleting it because I feel that, although the days of "Indiana Time" are behind us (for now at least), it is still an important and interesting historical process that people studying Indiana (perhaps school children who have to do a report on a state) should learn about.

If we were going to simply talk about the way Indiana is now, it would be sufficiant to say that Indiana is on Eastern time, and have the current U.S. map someplace near the introduction of the article as it is with most states. We wouldn't need a whole section on timezones. We might, however, have a footnote about the few counties that observe central.

What do other editors think? Should we; 1. Restore the old timezone map with a caption saying this is how it used to be. 2. Use the current map and rewrite the section to be more about the current timezones and elminate a lot of the historical information about how Indiana Time came to be. 3. Have both maps, a sort of before & after deal. 4. Eliminate the timezone section entirely.

Or am I making a big deal about nothing? I'm thinking the best course is probably 3... but would like some more feedback. ONUnicorn 14:25, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Why lose history? Considering the main history section only goes up to 1860, how about adding a subsection under Time zones with a pertinent narrative and image? The narrative could cite the beginnings of U.S. time zones and all the major changes to Indiana time zones. One image just before the most recent change probably would be enough, unless there's an image of the very first set of time zones available. Rfrisbie^talk 14:40, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Gas City; terror:

According to Homeland Insecurity, Gas City's {ice &/or roller?} skate rink[s] is|are more likely to be terror-attacked than Liberty Island. How do they know this?

I'm looking f/ articles about this terror-assessment.

Hopiakuta 18:49, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I would like more detail here; but, I'm ignorant:

The area was claimed for New France in the 17th century, handed over to the Kingdom of Great Britain as part of the settlement at the end of the French and Indian War, given to the United States after the American Revolution, soon after which it became part of the Northwest Territory,

As well as here:

known as the Illinois County of the Commonwealth of Virginia, then the Indiana Territory, and joined the Union in 1816 as the 19th state.

Pioneer Era: 1816-1860

&, there's:

Indiana, meaning the "Land of the Indians,"

Is there a page to discuss how such names affect indigenous Americans? & Indians?

Well, I guess that this does some of it: Native American name controversy.

Hopiakuta 19:19, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

City & town importance ratings by population & location

I'd like to suggest a rough population and location rule of thumb to rate Indiana city and town articles by importance.

• Metropolitan areas: Top
• Micropolitan areas: High
• Populations over 10,000 and suburbs: Mid
• Everything else: Low

Feel free to adjust individual cases as you see fit. Rfrisbie^talk 14:26, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I think if a city has historical importance, it should rank higher than population would dictate. Corydon is a prime example of this.--Bedford 15:42, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Of course, I'm just suggeting a "starting point," since the project has over 1,300 unassessed articles these days. Corydon would rate higher on an "Indiana history" criterion. Any "article" should be given the highest importance rating based on all criteria that apply. I also moved this topic to the more appropriate WikiProject Indiana talk page. I started it here by mistake. :-) Most of the discussions about article classification and importance probably should talk place there. Rfrisbie^talk 16:22, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Can you name ANY community in Indiana that doesn't have significant history? Should Milan, Indiana be listed as important because their high school basketball team inspired one of the most popular movies of the 1980s? Should Huntington, Indiana be considered important because it's where the last canalboat docked for the last time? Should Auburn, Indiana be considered important because they made the Cord Automobile there? Should French Lick, Indiana be considered important because Larry Bird came from there? In general, a community's importance is proportional to the number of lives it affects. A community of 40,000 people will have twice as many relatives living elsewhere as a community of 20,000 people. Vatican City's influence is immense, despite the small population, but what is there in Indiana that is comparable? Bloomington, South Bend, and West Lafayette, because their colleges have a national alumni base, and perhaps even Terre Haute qualifies on that basis. Speedway might qualify, and Broad Ripple, as the place where Dave's Mom lives. Columbus, Indiana, because so many major corporations are headquartered there. But those places are surely important anyway, because of their population.

Important cities and towns is meant to be present tense - it's "Who's Who", not "Who Was Who". William Hendricks was the first congressman from Indiana, served two terms, was unopposed when he ran for governor, resigned to serve two terms as Senator from Indiana. But that was almost two centuries ago, and even most people who live in Hendricks County have no idea who he was. He was my great-great-whatever-grandfather, but as they say, "That and a dime will buy you a cup of coffee". As long as you lay the dime atop a short stack of dollar bills, that is.

Forrest Gump would tell you that "Importance is as importance does". Not as importance did. These days, if you would ask hoosiers to put a pushpin in a map of Indiana, showing where Corydon is, most are going to say "Cory-what?" and a majority of the rest wouldn't come within a 50-mile radius. If you try using subjective criteria for "important cities and towns", you're going to end up with an edit war, sooner or later, with someone claiming New Castle, Indiana is important because of "Raintree County", a book so bad that the author committed suicide two months after writing it, and a classic in the sense that, in the last fifty years, the only people reading it were in classes where it was required reading. ClairSamoht 23:56, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard of that book, and my mother was from New Castle.--MarshallStack 16:39, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Testing a term paper, shall we? Corydon was the first state capital. It is one of only 2-3 places where a Civil War battle took place above the Ohio River. That is not trivia. Please go look up what trivia is. --Bedford 00:06, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

That's my point. Corydon WAS the first state capital. But it was temporary housing. There wasn't even one elected governor of the state who served a full term in Corydon.

Claiming that Corydon was the site of a Civil War battle is pretty misleading. Morgan's army was there, but there wasn't another army opposing him there. There wasn't anything in Indiana that was worth fighting for. Under similar circumstances, the folks at Newburgh sensibly didn't fire a shot. There was no Union army trying to protect Corydon, because it was militarily insignificant, and the South knew it, too: General Morgan violated orders from his superiors when he crossed the river. He lost 41 troops. A tragedy to 41 families, sure, but at Gettysburg (which is further north than Corydon), there were 51,112 casualties, and at Antietam, there were 26,134 lost in a single day - the bloodiest day in US military history.

Trivia is "something of small importance" - and if the word isn't illustrated with a picture from Corydon, it's because Corydon is of so little importance that they didn't think of it. I don't mean to insult Corydon. It probably is a fairly quiet and fairly safe place. But that's true of Winamac, or Goshen, or Milan Center, or Nashville, or Loogootee, or Lawrenceville. Perhaps you need to check the definition for "important". Someone who has fame, influence, or power is important. Someone who formerly had fame, influence, or power is "formerly-important". ClairSamoht 01:28, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

• Goshen isn't as safe as you may think it is. A lot of people think it's this nice "little" town because of Goshen College and the Amish/Mennonites in the countryside around the city. I was born and raised there, and there's an increasing amount of gangbanger activity there. When my dad was still living, he used to keep the curtains closed so as not to present silhouettes for drive-by shootings. Don't go walking around on the north side of the Norfolk & Southern tracks alone after dark.--MarshallStack 16:30, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I have been assessing various pages in WP Indiana. I've mostly prescribed to the population guideline, but I did give boosts if I felt the history of the area made up for a lack of population. I tried to avoid rating articles I myself created, but I know I did some.--Bedford 04:38, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

History

Why does the history section end at 1860? Is there an Indiana in the Civil War article somewhere, or should I create one?--Bedford 18:55, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

You realize, don't you, that this will only encourage someone else to ask why the history section ends at 1865?

By all means, create the article. Review the Category:Indiana in the Civil War for ideas of subjects you might want to include in the new article. Scott Mingus 19:11, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

2nd Regiment Indiana Cavalry 14th Indiana Infantry Regiment 17th Indiana Infantry Regiment 28th Regiment United States Colored Troops 34th Regiment Indiana Infantry 44th Regiment Indiana Infantry List of Indiana Civil War regiments Abel Streight Alvin P. Hovey Ambrose Bierce August Willich Battle of Corydon Benjamin Harrison Cannelton Cotton Mill Charles Cruft (general) Charles Vernon Gridley

Colonel Eli Lilly Crown Hill National Cemetery Gideon C. Moody Graham N. Fitch Henry Smith Lane Henry Ware Lawton Iron Brigade Jefferson C. Davis Jefferson General Hospital Jeffersonville Quartermaster Depot Jesse D. Bright John C. Black John Gould Stephenson John T. Wilder Joseph A. Wright Knights of the Golden Circle

Lew Wallace Mahlon Dickerson Manson Morgan's Raid Nathan Kimball Norman Eddy Oliver Hazard Perry Morton Robert H. Milroy Solomon Meredith Thomas Turpin Crittenden Van Camp's Walter Q. Gresham William Grose William Gwin (naval officer) William Harrow William Wade Dudley

There are lots of articles that touch on Indiana in the Civil War, but until you turn the red into blue, no Indiana in the Civil War. Hmmm, red versus blue? Shouldn't that be blue versus gray? Looks like there's a lot of reading to be doing, before the writing is to be done. Have fun; hope you're less confused about color than I appear to be.... ClairSamoht - Help make Wikipedia the most authoritative source of information in the world 06:02, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Indians of Indiana

If "Indiana" means "land of the Indians" readers will probably want to know, "what happened to the Indians?" Where did they go?122.31.178.226 (talk) 13:06, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, found this on "Ray's" web site. It looks like he's done his homework, but we probably need to find a more authoritative source: Indiana became a state in 1816 and immediately petitioned the federal government for the removal of Native Americans. In 1817 the Shawnee, Delaware and Wyandotte signed the Fort Meigs Treaty ceding their remaining lands in Ohio in exchange for reservations in Oklahoma and Kansas. Two centuries of standing in front of the European advance across North America had cost the Delaware 90% of their original population and left them scattered from Texas to Canada. The 1,000 Delaware in Indiana had no doubt what the outcome would be of a confrontation with the State of Indiana and, at the St. Mary's Treaty in October, 1818, ceded their Indiana lands and agreed to move west of the Mississippi. Between 1820 and 1822, the Delaware left Indiana and moved to the James Fork of the White River in southwest Missouri. Only 100 Delaware remained behind on their small reserve at Pipestown on the upper Sandusky in Ohio. It was around this time that the Kickapoo were moved west of the Mississippi. The Piankashaw and Wea were moved to Missouri and in 1832 moved again to the Marais des Cygnes River in eastern Kansas where they later merged with the remnants of the Illinois. In 1819 the Kickapoo had signed two agreements at Edwardsville and Fort Harrison, ceding all their lands in Illinois and Indiana and agreeing to move to Missouri. Unfortunately this meant that the Kickapoo would be living next to an old enemy, the Osage. Many Kickapoo refused to move and some began destroying the property of the settlers who had already begun to move onto their land. By 1834 most of the Kickapoo had been forced to leave, but some still managed to stay in Illinois and Indiana until the 1880's. Some Stockbridge also remained in Indiana until 1834 when they finally left for Wisconsin. In February, 1837 the Potawatomi signed an agreement in Washington DC giving up their lands in Illinois and Indiana. Some moved north into Ontario, Canada, but others still resisted, the chief at Nottawaseepe was poisoned by his own people while trying to convince them to accept removal. Menominee and his band at Twin Lakes, Indiana refused to sign any of the treaties and in July 1838 was still refusing to even sign the treaty let alone leave. Indiana governor, David Wallace, sent General John Tipton to force them to go. He arrived at Menominee's village on August 30th and arrested every Potawatomi there. Menominee was thrown into a caged wagon. The soldiers burned the village, and on September 4th, 859 Potawatomi departed on what they would call the "Trail of Death". It was every bit as harsh as the Cherokee Trail of Tears. The first child died on the second day and 51 Potawatomi became too sick to continue. By the time they reached Logansport, four more children were dead. The 300 who were sick required a halt so a hospital could be erected. Less than 700 Potawatomi reached the reservations in Missouri and Iowa. In March, 1842 the Wyandotte ceded all their lands in Ohio and Michigan and agreed to move to Kansas where they were to receive a new reserve of 148,000 acres. In July, 1845, 664 Wyandot left for Ohio by steamboat from Cincinnati starting the trek west to Kansas. Most of the Miami managed to stay in Indiana until 1846 when 600 of them left for Kansas. Between 1865 and 1867 the Illinois, Miami, Piankashaw and Wea in Kansas were moved to northeast Oklahoma. The descendants of the Miami who stayed in Indiana still live in their original homeland in the north of the state.122.31.178.226 (talk) 13:29, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Something to note -- the name "Indiana" does not originate with the state's establishment, of course, with the Indiana Territory, created in 1800. Ohio was split off from the large, old Northwest Territory, with the remainder given the name Indiana Territory. It was, in 1800, a vast, vague region almost totally owned (unceded) and inhabited by Indians. It was literally Indian Territory. The taste for "classical" names at the time resulted in Indiana Territory rather than Indian Territory. The point is, the name's origin is a simple description of the land at the time. It is ironic that the name stuck around and eventually became the name of a state -- after the Indian lands had been largely ceded and the Indians driven west. It reminds me of housing developments with names like "Elk Meadows" -- named for what was removed! And Indianapolis was very nearly named Tecumseh, which would have been an even greater irony. Anyway, just wanted to point out the name's origin, it case it wasn't entirely clear that it didn't begin with statehood. An even earlier use of "Indiana" was in 1765 by the Indiana Company, a group of land speculators with dubious rights to a large tract of land on the east side of the Ohio River downstream from Pittsburgh. The tract was called "Indiana". Whether this played into the naming of Indiana Territory in 1800 I don't know; but -- The Indiana Company's claim was disputed by Virginia, resulting in "long and famous litigation" that was not resolved until 1798. The Indiana Company lost and its Indiana ceased to exist. But just two years later the Territory of Indiana was created. So it seems likely that the "old" Indiana was well known in recent memory and was probably a reason for Indiana Territory being named Indiana rather than simply Indian Territory. Thus one can easily argue that the name Indiana goes back to 1765. There's a little info and a map of this old Indiana at Vandalia (colony). I know this is all tangential to "what happened to the Indians", but related since the question is particularly odd for a place named "Indiana". The same question could arise for states like Illinois of course ("what happened to the Illinois Indians?"), but somehow I doubt it comes up as often! Pfly (talk) 20:11, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to take a crack at post-1860 Indiana history. Anyone want to collaborate? GreatLakesdemocracy (talk) 20:06, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

History_of_Indiana#Post-War_Era could certainly use some attention, if you want to work on that.

As far as what happened to Indiana's Indians, there are several articles that deal with this. I can see the value in giving a short version of that here, but there are many answers. There were Indian removals throughout the 1800's, especially the Potawatomi Trail of Death in 1838 and the Miami split in 1846. But there are other stories of Indians leaving on their own accord, like some of the Piankeshaw did when the Virginians showed up and ruined the neighborhood. And a lot of Indians integrated and still live in Indiana, they just aren't recognized because they don't dress like Chief Illiniwek or talk like Tonto. ...and we still have the Indianapolis Indians. Mingusboodle (talk) 16:33, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

"Lost county of Virginia"

Anything of interest here for the Indiana history section? Rfrisbie^talk 19:18, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Not entirely conservative.

This article makes it seem as if there's no one in the entire state with a liberal viewpoint outside of a few cities. That simply isn't true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.218.3.121 (talk) on September 23, 2006

You're right, they do exist, but neighbors keep a close eye on those 17 individuals. ClairSamoht - Help make Wikipedia the most authoritative source of information in the world 21:59, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

You may have intended that as a joke, but there's more truth to it than you think. To disagree with George W. Bush here is considered tantamount to treason.--MarshallStack 16:37, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

The number of Hoosiers who voted for the Democratic Party candidate in a presidential election were 969,011 in 2004 and 901,980 in 2000. :) Wikipedia:Neutral point of view Chris24 04:09, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Even if the question was Republican versus Democrat, Chris, your numbers don't address "outside of a few cities", Chris. Kerry only managed to get 50% of the vote in three counties - Marion (Indianapolis) with 50.57%, Lake (Gary) with 61.03%, and Monroe (Bloomington) with 53.43%. Even Allen County, with the second-largest city in the state, only gave Kerry 36.04%.

But the question was conservative versus liberal. Neither party offered a conservative as a presidential candidate in 2000 or in 2004.

The traditional conservative values say that public officials should protect and defend the constitution, support individual freedoms and property rights, fight waste and fraud in government spending, minimize government size, and promote peace through strength. George W. Bush doesn't qualify as a conservative under any of those tests - although Evan Bayh does.

But in Indiana, "conservative" almost automatically equates with "Republican", and many, many Hoosiers go to the polls and almost automatically vote for the candidate with an "R" by their name - no matter if they know anything about him/her or not. Republican presidential candidates rarely campaign here, because they know Indiana's in their bag automatically, and Democrat candidates almost never campaign here, because they figure "what's the use?"--MarshallStack 16:37, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Because Indiana is an industrial state with a lot of union members, one might expect Indiana to be a Democrat stronghold, but it's not. Before the GOP abandoned its conservative base in favor of fundamentalist theocracy, Indiana elected Republican candidates to every position in the state and federal legislatures, and every elective state office. Has that happened in any other state? ClairSamoht - Help make Wikipedia the most authoritative source of information in the world 05:47, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

• Indiana is most definitely very, very conservative. I'd say probably the only state that matches it is Utah. Except for the steel workers in Gary/Hammond, the vast majority of the population is non-union, and union membership is depicted here like you're a member of the Communist Party or something. Indiana's polls are the first to close on Election Day, and almost inevitably it's the first state in the Republican column. It's also as close to a model GOP theocracy as anywhere in the country.--MarshallStack 16:37, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Indiana is fairly conservative, but I don't think it ranks in the top 5 most conservative states. At the moment, the Indiana House of Representatives is under Democratic control, its U.S. Senate delegation is split 50/50, its U.S. House delegation is made up of 5 Democrats to 4 Republicans, and the Governor was a Democrat from 1988 to 2004. So, at least in terms of political party votes, Indiana is by no means monolithically Republican. Mhojo 20:01, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Mhojo, I'm glad someone pointed to actual data regarding the party affiliation of elected officials. Indiana certainly has a conservative inclination, but the fact that the majority of its lawmakers are currently Democrat should quiet those labeling it a "model GOP theocracy". *smirk* Huwmanbeing 20:59, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Geography

i've re-edited the geography section so that it is more balanced and covers northern, central, and southern indiana. obviously, there are sub regions within these areas, such as michiana, which are covered under the general headings. Randella 14:17, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

New Sports section added to updated Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states format

The Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states format has been updated to include a new Sports section, that covers collegiate sports, amateur sports, and non-team sports (such as hunting and fishing). Please feel free to add this new heading, and supply information about sports in Indiana. Please see South_carolina#Sports_in_South_Carolina as an example. NorCalHistory 16:17, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

New Sports section added to updated Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states format

The Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states format has been updated to include a new Sports section, that covers collegiate sports, amateur sports, and non-team sports (such as hunting and fishing). Please feel free to add this new heading, and supply information about sports in Indiana. Please see South_carolina#Sports_in_South_Carolina as an example. NorCalHistory 16:18, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Religion

The article describes Indiana as "predominantly Roman Catholic," This simply isn't true. The survey referenced in this section states that only 20% of those surveyed identify themselves as Catholic while 56% identify with one of the various protestant denominations. I have edited the article to reflect this. Does anyone have another data source aside from this survey? Thachize 13:53, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

• it is the largest single denomination though. your edits now imply that baptist is the largest. plus you removed some significant information and figures that should have remained. i'm going to take another stab at it to try to find a better balance. as for resources, that is the only one i found online. Randella 22:18, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

The North American Religion Atlas (NARA), specifies that Roman Catholics comprise 27.2% of Hoosiers, 0.8% are Orthodox, Mormon 0.9%, Non-Christian 1.2% and Protestant denominations as a whole make up the remaining 69.9% of those who are affliliated with a group. This information can be viewed at NARA. Obviously, Catholics make up the largest individual group. jharris693 14:30 21 May 2007.

We missed a sports team...

I know, I know, it's far from the most important topic! But the founder of the Zollner Pistons of the National Basketball League, Fred Zollner, was alos instrumental in formation of the NBA. The Pistons played in several different leagues, based in Fort Wayne, before moving to Detroit in 1957.

I'd change it, but I'm pretty sure I'd make a huge mess...

Cheers, Scmrak 18:25, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

County roads

I have replaced the newly-added section on county roads with a more concise version. One issue is that county roads are not numbered based on yards from a baseline; the numbers are based on miles. I also am not sure the assertion that it is a confusing system is encyclopedic, or true. Granted, when one tries to put such things into written words, it can seem confusing, but the principle is really quite simple, which I imagine is why it was put into practice. I hope Rhatsa26X will not take offense at this edit and will re-add relevant material if necessary. Omnedon 04:06, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Earlham College

This is a small thing, but I've included Earlham College in the Education section, as I believe its omission to be an oversight. Earlham is small, (only 1,200 students or so) but it's ranked 23rd among 1,469 institutions of higher learning in the U.S. in the percentage of graduates who go on to receive Ph.D.s, even as more than 75% of alumni go on to earn graduate degrees of some kind. Earlham is also among the 9% of US colleges who are granted Phi Beta Kappa charters, and Earlham's been highly ranked by all of the major college guides including the Fiske Guide to Colleges and the Princeton Review. I know there's no need to go on here; just thought I'd make it clear why I made the change.

Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.18.196.92 (talk) 02:27, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Population

Why do you say that the population is not 6,313,520 when the US Census says it is?Brentoli (talk) 01:54, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

History Section

No "History Page" so Indiana had a very short history, what about the 20th century? --Margrave1206 (talk) 17:19, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Famous Hoosiers

This list is way too long, especially considering that there's also List of people from Indiana. It needs to be pruned to the most famous and notable. Everyone else should go (after making sure that they're already on the List). It doesn't need to be done all at once, but at the very least I propose that anyone who adds a name must remove at least two. And should justify why the name he added is more notable than the ones he removed. Other than that, let's start removing names that we think won't be controversial. Any disagreement over who should go, bring it here. -- Zsero (talk) 06:43, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

So I'm confused. What is the point of having both a Famous Hoosiers and a List of people? Just eliminate the section and have a link to the list and be done with it. And in the meantime, if someone adds someone to the Famous Hoosiers part of this page, instead of reverting the edit, just add them to the list instead. -- JT^Holla! 00:27, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

The article should have a short sample of the most notable Hoosiers, as an example of the sort of people the state has produced. That's encyclopaedic. A list of the size it's grown to is not. So we need to shrink it, which is work; and the way I propose to do it is that anyone who wants to add a name to the in-article list must remove at least two names, until it shrinks to a reasonable size. That way we may get this actually done. Of course people should feel free to prune the list without adding to it as well! -- Zsero (talk) 00:41, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree, short sample would be ok, but make sure appropriate names are included not just any name!~ But be precise! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.99.2.32 (talk) 00:05, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I think we really need to have two lists: One that is a Top 25 list of people FROM Indiana, and then a separate list of the Top 25 people who weren't from Indiana, but made their name in Indiana. Thoughts? -- JT^Holla! 01:04, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Indianan

I would like to hear other opinions on citing Indianan as a second Denomonym. I reject the reasoning that is commonly used to refer to Hoosiers outside of the state. I am well traveled and have been in all of the lower 48 multiple times and never once have I been called an "Indianan" - always a "Hoosier". Hoosier is almost certainly the overwhelming used term to refer to residents of Indiana. I suggest we remove the denomonym "Indianans". Charles Edward 12:11, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. If it is indeed common outside the state, it won't be hard finding a source. -- Me^Holla! 16:31, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I've never heard the term Indianan used, except by an ill-advised political candidate earlier this month. The ad was universally rediculed and quickly changed to "Hoosiers." Mingusboodle (talk) 16:40, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I just did a google search for Indianan, and I did find a few dictionary entries. The majority of hits, however, were typos that were referring to Indiana, Native Americans, or people from India. I think the word Indianan is worthy of a footnote next to the word Hoosier, but only to warn Wikipedia readers that this term should not be used. Mingusboodle (talk) 16:47, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I've footnoted "Indianan" with the dictionary link and explanation. Charles Edward 16:59, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Floods

Is there an entry on Wiki for yesterday's/ongoing floods? I searched for 2008 Indiana Flood but didn't return anything. If not...there should be! -- Me^Holla! 17:10, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah there should definately be an article on that. Widespread flooding, lots of damage, tens of thousand without water and power, thousand forced to flee their homes. I am going to start the article as June 2008 Indiana Flood. Charles Edward 17:20, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Awesome! -- Me^Holla! 19:30, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Abe as famouse hoosier

Would Abraham Lincoln qualify as a famous Hoosier, I am unsure? He lived in Indiana from age 7-21. His residence, or what is left of it is a memorial with a museum about him, Lincoln Boyhood National Memorial. Charles Edward 03:38, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Interesting question, i lived close to the memorial. Famous Hoosier, NO, because he is remembered as guy from Illinois, but hoosier coming from Indiana, sure! Keep in mind Illinois is land of Lincoln!{{{ BoxingWear - BWear - Miranda }}} (talk) 22:42, 4 September 2008 (UTC)