Talk:Eye color

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One of the Worst Articles on Wikipedia

I've read some poorly written articles on Wikipedia, but this one really takes the cake. It's full of incorrect information, backed by nothing, or by very shady references. Take the section on the elusive "violet eyes." Not only can no one seem to produce even a SINGLE image of this purported eye color (unlike every other color mentioned, this one seems to avoid detection by a world full of millions of cameras!), but the citation provided takes us to the H2G2 web site, which at first glance appears to be supported by the BBC, but in the fine print at the bottom of the page says, "Most of the content on h2g2 is created by h2g2's Researchers, who are members of the public. The views expressed are theirs and unless specifically stated are not those of the BBC. The BBC is not responsible for the content of any external sites referenced." Now, does that look like the kind of web site you'd want to take evidence from? So far as violet eyes are concerned, it should be stated that humans do not have violet eyes, despite various claims to the contrary, such as those by public relations personnel handling celebrities like Elizabeth Taylor. And for gawdsake, stop posting information about your own eyes! You're not special, and no one cares about your eyes except your mother!

Posting Pictures of Your Own Eyes

Please do not post pictures with captions like "my green eye". It's really obnoxious, and it's totally unnecessary; Wikipedia has plenty of pictures of eyes already. This article doesn't need any more. - MaxW 20:57, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

really? I don't see any pictures of red or purple eyes... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.161.48.66 (talk) 01:31, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree that posting "my green eye" /would/ be obnoxious. But I don't object to people posting their own eyes, so long as their eye pictures are better than the ones provided. Some of the current pictures are not accurate depictions of the intended colors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashantifan1224 (talk • contribs) 05:16, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Eye color changes?

I have green eyes and my dad has green eyes, my mom has dark blue eyes and my sister has brown eyes. I've always wondered why whenever it is dark like in a room or outside my eyes appear to be solid brown, I don't have any shade of brown in my eye and I have bright green eyes. So, why is this?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.217.87.171 (talk • contribs) 02:07, 16 November 2006 (UTC).

This is a wiki talk page, not a forum to post whatever you wish. You might better ask this question a Yahoo! Answers, or a similar site. 71.72.129.4 (talk) 22:01, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Distinct patterns of colors?

I'm looking for an explanation of my eye pattern/color. The background color of my eyes is a grey brown and there is a distinictive webbing pattern on top of this that is yellow. I haven't really seen this webbing pattern on anybody else except my dad (who has blue eyes with a light blue webbing on top). It looks to me to be completely separate from the background of the eye. To me, it seems that in others the color transitions slowly or that there are color stripes or rings coming out from the pupil. In addition,it often appears that mixed or ambigous eyes colors often have distinictive patterns. Obviously, I don't really know much about this except for personal observation, which is sketchy at best, so any other research supported information would be helpful.I couldn't find any simple explanations on the iris page; although, I think one of the discussions may have been related.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.173.88.77 (talk • contribs) 18:54, 17 November 2006 (UTC).

maybe you have some kind of sectoral Heterochromia. that might be what you are talking about. my grandmother had eyes that had this. they had very jagged and splotchy different colors. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.177.203.87 (talk) 23:27, 21 March 2007 (UTC).

radial eye color

i saw in the hazel section about people whose inner iris was brown and outer iris green, but what about the inner iris being green and the outside being blue. i know someone like this, but what would you call that color? has anyone else heard of this?

For a lot of "mixed" colours, you would simply call it the dominating colour (usually the outside one). London Steam 16:15, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Blue eye color doesn't change?

"Eye color usually stabilizes when an infant is around 6 months old." - This I have seen in almost all infants, most infants I have observed are born with blue eyes, most of these have later shifted into either green or brown (depending on the eye color of the parents (hooray for captain obvious)). Although further down in this article I found this statement: "As melanin production generally increases during the first few years of life, the blue eyes of some babies may darken as they get older. But never turn to a different color." - I was born with blue eyes, and so were all of my three sisters (same parents, mother green-eyed and father blue-eyed). Me and my sisters all have green eyes... Lazersnus 09:29, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm kind of questioning that statement too. My older sister and parents all have the same dark brown eyes. I was born with really dark brown eyes, now they're greenish-brownish. I consider them to be hazel. My mom claims me and my sis are 12% European -- Italian or Portuguese -- so maybe that's why, but the statement should be removed or sourced? ― Sturr ★彡 ^Refill/lol 00:29, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

It does exist. Some people are born with blue eyes and they later turn green or brown, I have seen it, keep the statement.

i have seen this too. however i doubt that it occurs in "almost all infants" i know i had brown eyes from birth, and looking at pictures of family members as babies, they all had static eye color.

Faris b 07:41, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

• 12% European. and the remaining 88%?! I had blue eyes until very late age, say 10 yrs old (then people said I had blue eyes, at least), now they are green, the colour can "change" due to light or cloth that I wear to lecture green (my favourite), military green, green, occasionally (rarely) they may seem grey or blue. My mother also said that I was born with very dark eyes (I never believed in her), but what sturr said made me remember that. I'm Portuguese (North) with 25% Brazilian (of Southern Europe descent, mostly Portuguese). my brothers all have different eye colours: Green, Brown and Blue. My Mom's eyes are brown, father's blue - all same parents. Those people with Aniridia seem to have alien eyes. That's cool :P. "-I'm alien!" "no, you're not!" and the guy takes off his glasses, and freaks out the other one. lol. --Pedro 21:01, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm 88% Chinese, 12% European. ― Sturr ★彡 ^Refill/lol 05:40, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Might she mean 12.5% European? As in an 8th? That would suggest one great-grandparent was european. If it is really 12%, I would wonder how on earth she could know that... Skittle 14:14, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

It is 12.5% -- see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Eurasian_%28mixed_ancestry%29#Um ― Sturr ★彡 ^Refill/lol 20:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps the reason for all this confusion is that blue and green eye colours can often appear very similar London Steam 16:19, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Eye color changes depending on the mood/feeling of the person?

A couple days ago, in one of my classes we were talking about how some people's eye color changes if they are in a different mood or something like that. in example somebody said that her brother had brownish eyes, but when he got mad they went really dark. What would be causing this phenonmena? --Ampersand2006 ^{( & )} 23:42, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Could be the effect of increased blood flow to the face? Or perhaps simply a change in facial expression occluding light to the eyes? Extar 03:26, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Why are you people making up bullshit to explain something that cannot happen? Rather than postulating wild theories about hormones, drugs, or blood flow, do some RESEARCH before you post. We are not chameleons, and our skin does NOT change color with mood or by will...and that includes eyes! Jeeze, you people are like little children! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.126.229.138 (talk) 03:27, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Erm..It's true that eye color CAN change with mood. Mine are hazel, and usually the sun is what makes them change(or bright lights) but when I'm really upset, they turn golden-yellow. So it is possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashantifan1224 (talk • contribs) 05:20, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

See the discussion below. It is postulated that hormones that are released in times of stress mimic melanogenic hormones, thereby altering eye colour. It would make sense, in this scenario, that they eyes got darker as they became more stressed, as melanocortins promote the production of dark, eumelanin. Rockpocket 03:58, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

My own eye colour seems to change between dark blue,light blue and mid gray with how i feel and also the time of year,Im in Australia and in the summer time my eyes go very bright blue in the winter they go darker.

Ive used a mirror at night to check this out and it amazes me,also i think drugs, in particuliar mood altering drugs also play a park in the pigment changing of eye colour —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.84.65.86 (talk) 15:34, 10 May 2007 (UTC).

The seasonal changing probably has something to do with increased exposure to sunlight, your eyes produce more melatonin/"tan". Changing because of mood though probably has something to with adrenaline as already stated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.118.23.19 (talk) 07:14, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism

I think the page still needs a litle fixing I removed the sentence "Tony Blair is gay" at the very beggining of the article,(of all the ways to spoof or insult a politician this one is rather lame) El Gostro 15:57, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Change in Eye-Colour by Substance

THIS ENTIRE SECTION IS A LOAD OF COMPLETE BULLSHIT, AND SHOULD BE DELETED. WHAT KIND OF RETARDED CHILDREN THINK THEIR EYES CHANGE COLOR WITH MOOD, AGE, ALCOHOL INTOXICATION, DRUG USE, ETC.? I MEAN, GROW UP! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.126.229.138 (talk) 03:30, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

I have hazel green eyes, normally with little light, you can’t see much of my color, looks hazel, but more brown color is visible than green. With sunlight, you can see more green color in my eye. I use marijuana from time to time and I notice that it changes my eye color from normal (inside a room-normal lighting); to really green/hazel rich color (as if it was receiving natural sunlight). Is there a link (proof) to this? I suppose I’m not the first one to experience this. Joey 08:34, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I guess the obvious question is, who is observing the change in your eye colour after using marijuana? If it is you, yourself then you should consider the possibility that your preception of your eye colour has changed, rather than your eye colour itself. If an independent (and not high) observer is reporting the change, then it is indeed an interesting finding.

This is not direct evidence, but I do wonder if there is a link. Some treatments for glaucoma, such as prostaglandin analogs, are known to change eye colour in maybe 10% of patients. These combat glaucoma by increasing drainage of intraocular fluid, thereby lowering pressure. Its thought that prostaglandin acts on eye colour by mimicing a natural hormone that mediates melanin production. Here is the interesting part: people have reported that when they are ill or under stress that their eye color becomes darker or lighter. A modified version of the pigmentary hormones are also produced during stress (and when you stress fish and frogs, they change colour for this very reason). So, since marijuana clearly has a stress relieving effect, one could image that it effects the very hormones that control melanin production (and stress) and thereby change eye colour.

Interestingly, marijuana has also been used as a drug to lower intraocular pressure in people with glaucoma. Quite how it works is unknown however and I have never heard of eye colour changes being talked about as a side effect of its use. Hope this helps. Rockpocket 10:14, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

case in point - I went out last night with friends and got overly inebriated, as in completely trashed. I went down to the shop today and everyone could see my eye color change from across the room. For some reason, they are a blazing green. Looks like colored lenses. They were blue-grey as a child, hazel as an adolescent, routinely changed between light brown to blue in my early 20's, and now are a faded blue/brown. Except for today. Lightertack 07:22, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

The use of marijuana ma y cause some redness in your eyes. The contrast between the red and hazel could make your irises appear greener.

That's true; your eyes appear red after smoking marijuana, and since green is opposite red on the color wheel, the green in hazel eyes really stands out, while the brown tends to fade against the red background.

Black Eyes

Would a photo of a very dark brown/black eye serve any purpose? It can be easily obtained. Roman Levin 09:25, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, a photo of very dark brown ("black") eyes would be good to complement the picture of medium brown. Lorielle 00:12, 31 January 2008 (UTC)~

I Was is African American Asian European countries (more than 50 countries) in my life. I've never seen black eyes. They were dark brown. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Celebration1981 (talk • contribs) 11:23, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

I 've got black eyes. If I have a VERY good look at them in VERY light place (or even under the lamp) I shall see that they are brown by nature. Dark brown. But nobody's seen them as brown in the real life. They're strongly black. You even cannot see where the iris is and where the pupil. And I ain't black person, my skin is white and hair is red. If you want to see photos, write me « utytyi@ya.ru » I hope you could understand what I've written. My english is bad, I know( --ArthurArthur (talk) 11:04, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that's the point! There are no true black eyes, but when they're so dark that they appear black or almost black, they're /considered/ "black" eyes.

Black Eyes

Yeah, there is not much mention of black eyes. That's why I checked on here originally. I never knew there was a such as thing as back eye colour, always thought it was a dark brown, and we couldn't see it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.55.13.128 (talk) 15:54, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Black and Brown eyes both have the same cause - the only difference is that Black eyes are much more heavily pigmented, so both really are technically the same type. No doubt there are big pigmentation and retinal pattern differences between different Black Eyes too - to show differences would no doubt require retinal scans, because obviously differences would not be visible to the human eye. Some people on my father's side of the family have Black Eyes.--Lord of the Isles 20:39, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, if violet eyes are mentioned in the article (which are pretty much just a variation of blue eyes), shouldn't black eyes be mentioned, too? They should definitely be added. 82.27.16.76 (talk) 06:51, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Definition of light eye color and number switching

I've noticed that a people seem to keep changing a few parts (especially whether hazel counts as "light" or not and percentages of people with blue eyes) back and forth. I have no knowledge which versions are correct, but none of the edits have anything to stand on either. Does anyone have references they can site for the information they're adding/removing so it's not a constant state of counter-productive edit wars? -Bbik 21:38, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

The current order seems logical; starting with the most heavily pigmented and common eye-colour (brown) and moving down via hazel, amber, green, blue and grey to the least pigmented and rare (red). Lorielle 00:49, 31 January 2008 (UTC)~

Red isn't "rare". It's a mutation. "Violet" and "red" and "absence of an iris" should not count as regular eyes colors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashantifan1224 (talk • contribs) 05:25, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Hazel

In the section of Hazel eyes, when it says hazel eyes are common among Middle Eastern people and Southern and Southeastern Europe, is it speaking of hazel as in light brown eyes? Or Hazel as being blue or green with brown near the pupil? -Regn

I think that needs to be clarified as well.

by Wild Mountain Thyme 06:59, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the term "hazel" (= thin pigment layer, or uneven pigmentation on top of the grey or blue that everyone has as a base) encompasses both, as long as the general appearance is more light brown than green. A fine line indeed.Lorielle 00:54, 31 January 2008 (UTC)~

I live in Serbia, and green (together with brown) is one of the most common eye colour here. Often, they come mixed: they are yellow or light brown in the centre, but light green on the edges. I also lived some time in Canada, and green eyes were pretty common there too. In Russia, however, you could hardly see anyone with green eyes. Most people with light eye colour (the majority) had either grey or blue eyes, green was pretty uncommon.

Stefan, Serbia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.185.120.21 (talk) 15:48, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Despite what many people think, hazel and green eyes are pretty common among people of the Middle East. Blue eyes are pretty rare over there though. I've been to Jordan, Palestine/Israel, Egypt, Kuwait and Bahrain, and have noticed quite a few light-eyed people(esp. in Jordan). In Egypt, jungle green was a fairly common color, with more blue-green appearing in Jordan and Palestine. Hazel was common in all 5 countries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashantifan1224 (talk • contribs) 05:28, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Green eyes are dominant over blue eyes

Genetically, green eyes are dominant over blue eyes, the article is wrong saying that green eye color are the rarest, the most rare eye color is blue.Lithop 06:20, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

If I remember it correctly eye colour is determed by a group of three genes extising in at least seven versions (coding for green, blue, blue-grey, grey, light brown/hazel, dark brown and black eyes). If at lest two out of three genes code for the same colour that determins the person's eye colour. If the three genes all code for diffrent colours it ususly becomes the darkest one since genes coding for darker colour tend to be dominant over genes coding for lighter ones. However, it is possible that the gene coding for green eyes is dominant over other eye colour genes.

Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

How can blue be the rarest? I live in an area with a representative population of various ethnic groups. I see far more blue-eyed people than green-eyed people. I know a handful of green-eyed people and many many blue eyed people. This is not even counting the large amount of people of African heritage. I looked at 50 randomly picked men from the National Sex Offender Registry and found that of the 35 Caucasians I happened to view, 15 had blue eyes and 20 had brown eyes. Considering the source, can't anyone realize that blue is more common?

Coher Obeid, Jordan.

It is true green eye genes are dominant over blue eye genes, but this has nothing to do with the existing proportion of people having these eye colors, the most influential factor is environmental conditions. More or less than 90% of Finns have blue eyes, if it was for gene dominance, this would have not been true. Take into consideration too, that the greatest proportion of green eyed people exists in Hungary (20%), compared to many European countries with more than 50% of the population having blue eyes. Green eyes are the rarest in almost every study on eye color.

I´m from Mexico, in Latin America most of the population is mixed race, between Native Americans, africans and Europeans, the most common eye color is of course brown, but several people have light eye color, and the second most common is green, and very few people have blue eyes. Mines are green, aren´t there any studies for Latin American population??

Inserting this in the middle of this discussion just to clarify something: As I've written elsewhere on this page, green eyes is what happens when you introduce blue-eyed genes into an otherwise brown-eyed population. Thus they may be the most common non-brown colour in Latin America, Middle East and Africa than blue eyes, but are still rare here in Scandinavia/Northern Europe where the blue genes don't have as many dark genes to compete with in order to get expressed as pure blue without the extra pigmentation layer or pigmentation specks that give the appearance of green eyes. Lorielle 01:09, 31 January 2008 (UTC)~

Sorry, but 90% of the Finns having blue eyes is not credible considering human genetics. Ethnic groups are not as genetically isolated as even scientists thought just 30 – 40 years ago. Instead ethnic groups are almost always strongly mixed with their neighbours. The rare exceptions from the rule are very affected by hereditary diseases. Finns are not one of those more genetically isolated groups. The population of Finland is divided into three main ethnic groups: the Finish-spoken majority, a Swedish minority in the south and west, and a Sami minority in the north. Even if people usually marries within their ethnical group that would not make much of a difference. According to Steven Pinker one “crossbreeding” each generation is enough to make two human populations genetically similar. Consequently, human populations rarely become as physically homogenous as some people like to think.

Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

Hej Lena.

Why not? Of the Finland´s population of 5.290.000 only 300.000 are of Swedish origin and only 6.900 are ethnic Saame people. As far as I have travelled, because of my work (when I was still in active working life) for more than 20 years all around the country I have noticed that the blue eye color is really dominating in Finland. Nine people out of ten have blue eyes and the rest have mixture of other colours.Regarding the ethnic Saame people most of them have either dark brown of black eye color. The last one being described as "sticking look " from their black eyes by most of the other ethnic groups. I have grey green eyes , green more dominating than grey. My first wife had (and surely still does) light green eyes which changed to grey black when she become nervous, were rare colour indeed. My second wife has so deep green eyes than in many places where we have been visited during our holidays many local people are impressed of, specially her eye color and also in lesser means of my eyes, saying they have ever seen such eyes before. I have also noticed when people get angry or are showing their hate their eye color changes. ("Eyes are the mirror of soul" says old Finnish proverb.)

Blue, grey, and green color is predominant eye color among the Finno Ugrian peoples and this correlates quite well with so called N3 haploid in their Y-chromosome DNA results.

With this no wonder that the original birth place of Finno Ugrians seems to be Middle Asia rather than European when compared with blue and green eyes still found in Iran and Northern Pakistan Hindukush area. Also many Jews of Eastern European origin have the same colors in their eyes. I am a Finn who have traced my Finnish roots back to early 1400 century.

JN

I suspect that you to suffer from confirmation bias. Blue eyes might be most common among ethnical Finns and black among the Sami minority. Yet 90% blue eyed seems incredible considering human genetics. In each ethnic group there is every fifth person does not mach the supposed “race”, which in a genetical sense does not exist. As I previously wrote one “crossbreeding” each generation is enough to make two populations genetically similar within a few centuries. That is most likely the case with the three ethnic groups of Finland.

2007-08-11 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

I am now attending a course in biology (equivalent of grade ten to twelve if you start school at the age of seven). I have learned that brown and green eyes are due to dominant genes while blue and grey eyes are due to recessive ones. To make along story short that means the genes for brown and green eyes can prevent the genes for blue and grey ones to be expressed. People with one gene for brown and one for blue or grey eyes will always have brown ones. Similarly, people with one gene for green and one for one for blue or grey eyes always have green ones. If you have one gene for blue and one for grey eyes your eyes will be blue-grey. If you have one gene for brown and one for green eyes you will have an eye colour in between. There are also people with violet eyes but I don’t know what this trait is due to. It might be hereditary like the other eye colours, but in such a case I don’t know how it is inherited. Anyway it is a very rare trait which is probably why it was not mentioned in the course except by me. Please note that the frequency of genes varies widely between human populations. However, it does not vary very much between neighbouring populations. As I mentioned before one interbreeding each generation is enough for making human populations genetically similar within a few centuries. Also, they are not as genetically isolated as some people (mainly racists) like to think.

2007-12-08 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.229.19.152 (talk) 20:25, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Now I am ethnically Greek on both sides of my family, both my grandmother and my father had light grey eyes. Not blue but a noticably lighter shade of grey. Now I know in classical literature, the Odyssey in particular Homer always refers to the goddess Athena as "Grey eyed Athena." So apparently there is a long history of grey eyes in the region. Now my eye color is green and my wife's eye color is dark brown. Do the traits from light grey and brown produce green? Or does that mean that my mother who had light brown eyes probably carried a recessive trait for green and that along my father's dominate trait for grey results in green? If that's the case, would my wife also have to carry a recessive trait for green eyes? I have one child with green eyes and two with brown. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.61.10.143 (talk) 04:16, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

When discussing the genes of a particular person information on ethnicity is quite unimportant. I think you have misunderstood what I wrote. A table might be clearer. The uppermost row denotes genes that might be inherited from one parent. The column to the far right denotes genes that might be inherited from the other parent. The other panels denote the eye colour resulting from the combination of genes. Please note that all humans have only two genes for eye colour. Thus a person may have a combination of two of the four genes or two identical.

	blue	brown	green	grey
blue	blue	brown	green	blue-grey
brown	brown	brown	greenish brown	brown
green	green	greenish brown	green	green
grey	blue-grey	brown	green	grey

The frequency of the different genes may vary a lot between populations but not much between neighbouring populations. There are also people with violet eyes. However, I don’t know what this trait is due to. “Hazel” might be the same colour as I chose to call “greenish brown”. There are also small variations within each main eye colour. Maybe those are due to pure random chance.

2008-02-05 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

Good attempt, but makes little sense. How would one account for grey-green or blue-green eyes if your model were correct? I know a few people with precisely those eye colors - not "blue on the outside and green around the pupil" or anything like that, but rather, true aqua blue-green or true grey-green all the way through. I strongly believe you're oversimplifying the matter of eye color genetics. Succubus MacAstaroth (talk) 22:28, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Lena, by informinging me that there are only two genes for eye color you've essentially answered my question. I was not sure whether or not eye colors like grey or hazel could be a distinctive trait in itself or if they were the result of a combination of traits. For instance if there are only genes for brown and blue eyes then all the other eye colors are variations of how the ratios of these genes pan out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ted Sofis (talk • contribs) 18:31, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

You have misunderstood what I wrote. All people have two genes coding for eye colour. Those two genes may be in any of four varieties. In the above table they are denoted as “blue”, “brown”, “green” and “grey”. The two genes might be identical (coding for the same colour) or different (coding for two different colours). A person with brown eyes might have two “browns”, one “brown” and one “blue”, or one “brown” and one “grey”. Persons with green eyes might have two “greens”, one “green” and one “blue”, or one “green” and one “grey”. Persons with blue eyes always have two “blues”. Similarly, persons with grey eyes always have two “greys”. A person with blue-grey eyes always has one “blue” and one “grey”. Analogous to such cases are people with greenish brown eyes. Such persons always have one “brown” and one “green”. Please note that people can inherit only one of the two genes from each parent. Which one is determined by pure random chance. When I wrote that the frequency of different genes vary between populations I meant that the proportions of people carrying the different genes vary. In other words, the rules for inheriting eye colours are the same all over the world. It is just the commonness of the different genes that vary.

2008-02-17 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

Eurika! Like Archimedes when he climbed into his bath and discovered water displacement, I understand! The chart only confused me, you did an excellent job explaining it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.61.10.143 (talk) 00:44, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi all, A final word on this is that eye color is a polygenic trait, it is not determined by two genes alone, but the two gene model is simple and accurate enough to be taught in schools. And from most of the studies I read, the Finns have the highest percentage of light eyes, mainly whitish grey which is lighter than blue, this corresponds with the percentage of strong blondism (Platinum) found among Finns, which the highest in the world. The depigmentation among humans is thought to have originated among Finns.

2008-5-18 Ghassan Straton —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.90.170.138 (talk) 14:14, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

That Swedish girls sounds like a crazy leftist multiculturalist who believes that all Humankind is equal, there are not such thing as ethnic groups or human races and that a Marxist economical model would be good once Sweden is already a very culturally marxist state. Well, ethnic groups are important. Yes they are. I am from Portugal and I can attest that while phenotypical diversity is not great across West-to-East ethnic groups in the Peninsula, we as a whole are different from Scandinavians and even Italians and the French. Also, there is a small phenotypical diversity ranging in a Nort-West, South-East continuity. It is small, but it is more noticable than any West-East difference between ethnic groups. Concerning eye colour, I have to mention that here the traditional classification is very different than the English one: Here, in Portugal and Spain (and I believe, Latin America as well), there are two main colours: brown and blue. Brown is overwhelmingly dominant (I'd say 60~80% depending on the places) with an average of, in my opinion, 75% brown eyes. Blue (grey included, whatever that may be) eyes may be on average ten to fifteen percent with a complex variation between places. To the other colours we, especially the not educated people, call them green. There are no hazels eyes. I've seen a person with mixed blue and green eyes being classified in this way: The eyes are not brown, neither blue, so it is green. It is a three coloured eye: blue, green and brown. The fact is, here, all you have to do to be considered green eyed is to have a small mix of green. Here, one drop of green makes you a green eyed. Now considered green eyes to be real pure green eyes, it is evident that blue eyes are dominant over the green ones. If we are to exclude the brown eyed majority in this Peninsula, blue eyes would be twice or three times more frequent than green eyes. And hazel eyes would be even more dominant than blue eyes. That's why that Mexican fellow thinks green eyes are more common than blue in Mexico. Because there are many more white mexicans with greenish-hazel eyes than white Mexicans with blue eyes. He probabily has never seen green eyes (some 0,5% of the Mexican population? Being concentrated among the Mexican elite?) and as so he thinks of green any time he sees a non pure brown eye. That's what we here in the Peninsula do whenever we see a non blue and non pure brown eye. This taking in account that we popularly consider only three eye colours: Blue, Green and Brown. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.180.162.100 (talk) 13:45, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I live in Serbia, and green (together with brown) is one of the most common eye colour here. Often, they come mixed: they are yellow or light brown in the centre, but light green on the edges. I also lived some time in Canada, and green eyes were pretty common there too. In Russia, however, you could hardly see anyone with green eyes. Most people with light eye colour (the majority) had either grey or blue eyes, green was pretty uncommon.

Stefan, Serbia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.185.120.21 (talk) 15:51, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

The Portuguese thinking that I sound crazy seems to be quite prejudiced against Leftists. To the extent I can be considered a Leftist I belong to the Darwinian Left. To me “Marxism” means Communism which Sweden has never been close to. Communists appear quite pathetic to me: their analysis of the society is about 150 years too old and their political ideal utopian. What I mean is that planned economy is against human nature. Politically, I prefer a mixed economy where the prime goal of the government is to compensate for human nature. Also, I am a strong supporter of the Human Rights idea meaning that all humans have the same intrinsic value and as such should have the same rights and duties. This is an ethic statement and not a factual one. However, all alternatives I know about have resulted in people being treated as they do not want to be treated. No human want to be punished for things that person knows is not his or her fault. No human want to be bullied, degraded or treated like crap. This is the only fact that has anything to do with Human Rights. About Multiculturalism I think that we should let cultures change on their own conditions. Change should not be forced upon people unless the target of the change is harmful or ruining. Traditions which should be abandoned or replaced includes cannibalism, genital mutilation (especially without anaesthesia), forced marriage before the end of puberty and oversized dowries. But I think the Western societies are better in at least one respect: we are better at giving people what people want.

I don't deny the existence of ethnic groups. Many conflicts can't be understood without taking people's feelings of kinship into account. However, such feelings of kinship are not hereditary, they are something you grow up to become. The ethnicity of your biological parents only matters if you are raised by them. When I wrote that “races” does not exist I meant that “races” in the original biological sense has been scientifically disproven. There are no genetically homogenous human races with sharp borders. What do exist are genetically heterogeneous populations which gradually blend into each other. I know that the frequency of certain genes varies between human populations. To my knowledge such genes includes those coding for the hereditary component of outward physical appearance and the immune system including allergies. Other genes varying in frequency are those coding for blood types and the ability to digest carbohydrates. There are inborn differences in mental traits but such differences are between individuals and not between large groups of people such as populations, ethnic groups or social classes. However, due to hormones affecting the brain there are a small number of mental traits are more common in men than in women. In the same way there are a pocketful of mental traits that is more common I women. Please note that the only trait all women have in common is perceiving oneself as a woman. Similarly, the only trait all men have in common is perceiving oneself as a man. (These are the best definition of “man” and “woman” I can come up with.) To me true equality means that everyone can chose the life best suiting him or her without being limited by prejudice about how members of their group “should be”.

In my previous inlays I just tried to describe the hereditability of eye colours as far as I know. In this discussion at least three inlays have been written by people mixing up “dominating” and “dominant”. The property of a gene being dominant has nothing to do with how common it is. Nor has it anything to do with dominance in the psychological or social sense. It only tells how the trait it codes for is inherited. A trait coded for by a dominant gene has to exist in at least one of the parents for a child to inherit it. On the other hand it does not have to be inherited by a child unless at least one of the parents has two copies of it. A trait coded for by a recessive gene does not have to exist in any of the parents if it existed in at least one ancestor on each side. However, if both parents have a trait coded for by a recessive gene all their children will have it to. There are seven main eye colours: brown, greenish brown, green, gray, blue-gray, blue and violet. I don’t know what violet eyes are due to but the other eye colours are inherited in the classical Mendelian way. Brown and green eyes are due to dominant genes while gray and blue eyes are du to recessive ones. If you have one gene for brown eyes and one gene for green you will have greenish brown eyes. Similarly, if you have one gene for gray and one gene for blue eyes you will have blue-gray ones. I find it credible that there are additional genes further modifying the seven main eye colours. Although I rarely think about people’s eye colour I am aware that the frequency of them varies between populations and ethnicities. It was only the claim of more than 90% of the Finns having blue eyes that did not sound credible to me.

2009-07-21 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

Whoever truly believes blue is the rarest color has a distorted perception of reality. :/ The only region where blue is probably the rarest, is in the middle east. I've been to five middle eastern countries, and green and hazel were fairly common, whereas blue was pretty rare. That said, blue is FAR more common than green, in general. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashantifan1224 (talk • contribs) 05:34, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

I can well imagine a population in which blue is the rarest eye colour. However, all judgements in this discussion about how common different colours are in different populations seem to be based on unsystematic experience. Such experience is of little scientific use, if any. Anyway, how common a hereditary trait is has nothing to do with how is it inherited which is what the words “dominant” and “recessive” have in view.

2009-08-01 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.114.155.69 (talk) 11:35, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Blue eye pictures?

The current picture of a blue eye is kind of blah and not very highly pigmented. I mean, I'm sure it looks nice as part of someone's face, but I don't think it should be the archetypal example of a blue eye. Could we get a picture of someone whose eyes are more Paul Newman blue? I don't mean of Paul Newman's eyes, just that kind of piercing strong blue.

The only difficulty I can see with this is that it's hard to take pictures of people with blue eyes -- they tend to get incredibly strong red eye, I assume because they have less pigment to get in the way of light bouncing back. BTW, should that be mentioned in the article? 207.237.193.23 02:27, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Melanesians, Berbers, etc.

See Talk:White people#Berbers: a popular counter-example which is not listed Tazmaniacs

Sharbat Gula paragraph/picture

The distinctive green eyes of Sharbat Gula.

One of the most famous photographs ever published by National Geographic was a close-up of Sharbat Gula, a Pashtun girl with startling green eyes, taken in western Afghanistan by Steve McCurry in 1984. Details of her irises captured by the photograph were used to confirm her identity after she was relocated in 2002.

This part of the Green section, in all its variations, keeps getting deleted and added back in. Should it be included or not? As I see it, yes outweighs no:

Yes: It adds the little tidbit that irises can be used like fingerprints, at least in some cases. Besides, if we can use pictures of anyone else's eyes, why not hers? Perhaps a crop of just her eyes would be more appropriate, but I don't know if that would break copyright rules or not.

No: While a (very minimal, but related) discussion of a specific person is slightly off-topic in an article about eye color, there are specific mentions of other people later in the article. Or perhaps those mentions should be removed as well?

What other reasons and opinions are there? -Bbik 00:03, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

To me, it makes a lot of sense to include this in the article. It may be a reference to a specific person, but it only shows a real-life situation where eye colour has had a major impact. The striking eyes made that picture iconic, and that piercing gaze has come to represent the pleading yet accusatory cry of all refugees. Those eyes express the nature of a life that is inexplicably different from that of most National Geographic readers while also mocking us for being so ignorant to the plight of others. For that reason, I believe the full photograph and explanation should be included.--70.55.66.131 05:18, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Violet eyes?

Are there really people with violet eyes? I have never seen any that can’t be explained by coloured contact lenses.

No, no one has violet eyes. The myth about Elizabeth Taylor is enduring, and is enough to make otherwise sane people report to each other that they look violet, even when they are simply blue. She enhances the myth by using lots of blue/violet eye shadow, and that also helps throw people. I also need to point out that there's a LOT of crap in this article that needs to be deleted. The section about "violet eyes," for instance, has a reference to a site that is just another Wikipedia-style site, not a science site.

I met Elizabeth taylor and her eyes are violet but they are not really a strong deep violet they're more like a Violet blue , but they cannot be mistaken for just blue green or any other color they were violet-ish. I took a picture with her, if I can find it I'll upload it!

Syd Barrettt had violet eyes.

No, Syd Barretttt (or however you want to spell it) did not have violet eyes.

Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.233.151.160 (talk) 11:47, 12 March 2007 (UTC).

Isn't Elizabeth Taylor famous for her violet eyes? 72.14.125.25 20:59, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I think she is, but in reality they aren't...Lorielle 01:26, 31 January 2008 (UTC)~

The problem is that on all photos where I can see her eye colour she is disguised as someone she acts! In other words it can be explained by coloured contact lenses.

Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

Or it could be a hand-tinted black-and-white picture. In the the majority of her pictures and films she has green-blue eyes. I therefore took the liberty of changing the text to declare her "violet eyes" a myth. Lorielle 01:26, 31 January 2008 (UTC)~

Dose anyone have true violet eyes besides me?

And who are you? Do you have a picture of your "Violet" eyes?Lorielle 01:26, 31 January 2008 (UTC)~

Yes! this little boy from Tamil Nadu his eyes are amazing!: http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/4338/tamilnadumahabalipuram5zc.jpg

His eyes seems to be just bright blue, there are almost no red tint in their colour to consider it purple. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.249.160.9 (talk) 08:08, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree that his eyes are just a very bright blue, without yellow. The brown skin tone also offset them too perhaps look more violet than they really are.Lorielle 01:26, 31 January 2008 (UTC)~

There should be a picture of a person with purple eyes on the page. --76.16.151.77 23:38, 1 July 2007 (UTC)Kino Lala

Yes, if naturally violet eyes really exist. Until I've seen proof of it, I've taken the liberty to rewrite that section of the article. Please do not change it unless you can provide proof that violet eyes really exist Lorielle 01:26, 31 January 2008 (UTC)~

No. You have it backwards. Your change is original research and thus contrary to wikipedia policy, thus I reversed it. Please do not restore your opinion without adding a strong (high quality) citation supporting your point of view that violet eyes do not exist. And BTW, the usual explanation about Elizabeth Taylor is that (1) TV screens cannot reproduce violet/purple in the first place (I personally as an engineer know this to be a fact), plus (2) if you see an old color film of hers in a theater (which few these days have), the color quality of the old prints is fading over time. See the danger in using what seems to be common sense in making edits? Don't assume. Dougmerritt (talk) 16:47, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

What! Did Dougmerritt actually just suggest that we should leave the statement (as if it's fact) until someone DISproves it? Are you fucking kidding me? Is that really how you think the world works? Should I say that Unicorns exist, and then await the proof that they don't? Wow, that really says it all!

FYI, FWIW here's a discussion in a snopes forum where people offer evidence that Elizabeth Taylor did in fact have violet eyes. I don't consider this a strong enough citation to convince skeptics, but it's further food for thought. http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=30;t=002589;p=0 Dougmerritt (talk) 17:45, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Apparently, there is people with violet eyes. They are just so rare that I can’t remember ever meeting one. What do you bean with “purple” eyes? Albinos has red eyes but that is the closest I can come up with.

2007-12-08 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.229.19.152 (talk) 20:29, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Even in albinistic populations, the overwhelming majority are blue-eyed (although their eyes may appear red or violet under misleading light sources). If red eyes are possible, it must be at least hypothetically possible to have violet or purple irises, but it must be incredibly rare. It would be great to get a photo on the page, but I wouldn't hold my breath. --137.122.202.34 (talk) 20:50, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

What do you mean with “albinistic populations”? When I write “albino” I mean a person who compleatly lacks pigmentation. Such people has always red eyes. However, some people define “albinism” more broadly. I don’t really like it because it can lead to wrongful expectations of “classical” albinism. People simply don’t want to be expected to cope with much less than they really do!

2008-01-19 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.229.19.152 (talk) 20:33, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

You are actually wrong there Lena, Human beings generally have too large eyeballs for any red tones to shine through though red and violet tones do exist but almost never among adult albinos. I have seen a beautyful picture of a young albino philipino girl... found it! http://www.flickr.com/photos/47208669@N00/440240389/ as you can see there are red tones shining through her her blue giving the impression of violet... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lazersnus (talk • contribs) 17:30, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I removed Liz Taylor from the violet eyes section. We are interested here in her true eye color. Apparently this seems hard to know for such a famous actress (contact lenses, faded photos, hand-tinted BW photos, change of eye color during lifetime, inability of TV screens to reproduce violet(?) all given as explanation for inability to actually see Liz' violet eyes today). I have seen a range of pictures of her (of which I don't know if they show her true eye color), but none of them seem to exhibit a color that could imho be called violet. A bluish grey with hazel dots at most. See [[1]], [[2]], [[3]], [[4]], [[5]], [[6]], [[7]], [[8]], [[9]], [[10]] . What is apparent is the inconsistent color of her eyes. Btw the first usable glass contact lenses were invented in 1888; the first polymer contacts in 1930, see Contact_lens#History, these were then, I imagine, not necessarily largely commercial, but more luxury items. So it's possible that Liz Taylor used contacts to obtain a variety of eye colors during all of her career, including the early years. But this makes it only harder to know her true eye color. Perhaps a problem is definition of color: what is 'violet' in violet eyes? At the bottom of the wikipedia page Violet (color) is a table with 'shades of violet'. With the colors indicated there I can almost imagine that people have lavender, lilac, thistle, or moutbatten pink eyes. These are rather drab colors with very little red in them, which would make it hard to reproduce that color well on a photograph (i.e. without reflections of surrounding colors from skin, clothes, sky etc.) or to say that they were 'definitely violet'. It would be good to have a clear, background-neutral picture of authorised 'violet eyes' (of anybody) so that we would know what to look for in Liz' eyes. Who is an expert on eye color? --Gekkko (talk) 03:08, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Violet eyes can be seen here [11] and at the very bottom of here [12] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Poohding (talk • contribs) 05:23, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

The first picture indicated by Poohding [13] shows imho rather clear example of a photoshopped/doctored picture with magenta reflections (even part of the eyeball and sky reflections have a rather synthetic purple hue...). An imho rather bad example to the evidence of the real existence of violet eyes. Please don't use it for that. The second picture (bottom of [14]) I would describe as dark gray to red-brown eyes, possibly maroon-coloured. I'll admit they look sort of reddish. Since those are diseased eyes they are maybe not showing typical colors, but possibly traumatised eyes, i.e. blood-stained. Unfortunately the picture quality is not very good and there is quite a high level of compression artifacts. Anyway these eyes seem much darker and rather different from Liz Taylor's more light eye color, which is claimed to be 'violet'. It still seems to me that 'violet eyes' are very ill-defined. --Gekkko (talk) 22:52, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

[15] Liz Taylor picture at the top of the page. It's small, but clear enough to see the color. They are indeed violet. Not to mention this picture here [16]. I also read somewhere that they had not come out with color contacts that change your eye color while she was making movies. I'll have to find where it is I read that though. But there you have it - her pictures of violet eyes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.186.121.104 (talk) 23:17, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I'll admit that when you zoom in on the two pictures indicated by uncredited you get a few pixels of what could be called violet. Shall we become suspicious by the fact that they are two quite different shades of violet... ;-)? In [17] the color seems more a red-brownish violet hue (something between amethyst and eggplant). In [18] the eye color is a very dark blue, almost indigo. These are not the same colors. The quality of the photographs to document eye color is poor. The first image is very soft and heavily filtered (look at the shoulders); the second one is sharper, but - to me - looks very much like it has been colorized (I might be wrong). The irises in either picture are only a few pixels across. Together with the rather different iris hues depicted in them, I would really wish that there were better photos - possibly not publicity material, but 'natural' photographs - to show what violet eyes look like. These need not to be of Elizabeth Taylor. I'd be glad to be directed towards any clear, high-res photograph of violet eyes. --Gekkko (talk) 00:44, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

No one has violet eyes. O_O Period. Just google "Elizabeth Taylor's eyes" and you'll see that even her eyes are plain old blue! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashantifan1224 (talk • contribs) 05:39, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Too Many Hazel Eye Pictures?

I think there are a few too many photos of hazel eyes, are three really necessary? (Nick4gwen 17:50, 14 April 2007 (UTC))

Since "hazel" is just a convenience term to describe various combinations of medium pigmenting, which may be anything from a thin layer to scattered splotches, I think it is good to have several examples of how different "hazel" eyes can look. Lorielle 23:10, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Lorielle; people need examples of different hazel eyes to clear things up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashantifan1224 (talk • contribs) 05:37, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Black Eyes, where are you

What happened to black-coloured eyes ? I have black eyes, its very common..122.162.66.56 10:13, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Mine are nearly black, too. It'll be nice to see a photo of (nearly) black-coloured eyes here :) Alicenoemi 11:10, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

ILoveYou17 (talk) 19:47, 17 June 2008 (UTC)There's really no such thing as black eyes.It looks black because it contains a lot of melanin.It's actually dark brown.

Both of you who have black eyes, give us a picture!--200.125.40.115 (talk) 14:22, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Simple Correction Needed

I believe a correction is needed in the section titled, "Classification of Colours." It lists blue as the rarest iris colour, rather than (the correct colour) green. http://www.answers.com/topic/eye-color 82.152.61.185 19:18, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

GoldenEye

I've seen 'golden' eyes before, perhaps they should be listed under the brown section. They are definitely distinct from your standard brown though. Vranak

Those are referenced as "whiskey eyes" under the brown section. I added the word "golden" to it.

by Wild Mountain Thyme 07:00, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

They're also known as "amber".

We desperately need new photos for the hazel and amber sections....

First of all, the hazel eye photo (pictured left) alarms me when I scroll down the page! It's just scary. (Not to mention it looks more light brown than hazel to me.) Also, the hazel & amber eyes are nearly indistinguishable from one another... The whole point is to provide clear examples of different eye colors. This section definitely needs an overhaul. by Wild Mountain Thyme 07:07, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I think that the pictures on the "amber" section are fine. They do display amber eyes quite nicely. I do agree that the one eye on the "hazel" section did not fit the description. It was indeed brown, not hazel. I have replaced it with an eye that had been previously on this page, but was later removed by this brown eye. This one displays hazel much more truthfully. Depending on the monitor of the computer, amber and hazel eyes should differ by amber being a solid color, while hazel ought to consist of multiple colors. Both colors are much lighter than regular brown. Some monitors are set too dark, though, and therefore all the eyes look brown, even though they are not. by Aarynne 11:15, 17 June 2007 (GMT)

UPDATE: The eye I had uploaded to the hazel section has been replaced by someone else's by now, so nevermind :-) by Aarynne 5:19, 20 June 2007 (GMT)

RED in an eye

is it possible. I believe my eyes are dark green on the outside and red in the center. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.238.65.172 (talk) 02:29, 10 May 2007 (UTC).

May perhaps be a reddish-brown which might appear more red when contrasted against the complimentary green? Lorielle 23:14, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Lorielle has a point. Red and green directly contrast with each other, so any red would be more noticable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.137.4.37 (talk) 18:55, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

A few notes

Firstly, the section "determination of eye color" reads like a high school class presentation, probably should be edited to fit a more enyclopedic style. In "classification of colors", the following passage needs clearing up: "Blue eyes have a little yellow and little to no brown, making them appear blue. Gray eyes appear gray because they have a little yellow and no brown". Lastly, in the section on hazel eyes, the article states that hazel can refer to eyes that change color due to the color of the person's clothing, a phenomenon the article goes on to state in "eye color change" is impossible. I would fix these things myself, but I'm not really knowledgeable or qualified here, so I just wanted to point them out, Powrtoch 04:52, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

The section on Gray Eyes contains a sentence fragment: "While in group OCA1B (the next less severe form) most have light blue eyes." I would change it by replacing "While . . ." with something like "By comparison . . . " except that I just joined and this page can't be edited by new members. --JoeIcarus 01:57, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Red as an Eye Color?

Is it possible for red to become an eye color? If it did, it'd be pretty creepy.

Albinos have red eyes because they can’t produce the pigments necessary for the other eye colours. Those are the only people with red eyes.

2007-08-11 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

Most albino humans have blue eyes, actually.

I referred to “classical” albinism when a person is unable to produce any pigments in his or her skin, hair or eyes. Such persons are always red-eyed.

2008-05-27 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

Actually, NO ONE has true red eyes, at least not in the pigment sense. True Albinos have eyes which appear to be red, because they lack all pigment and actually have colorless irises. They appear red or pink because of the blood being visible as it flows through the vessels of the iris.

_Susan, NC, USA

The redness of the albino's eyes is caused from being able to see the retina of a persons eyes when their lenses are colorless, or when the pupil (black center portion) is dialated, and a strong light reflects off the retina as is often seen in "red eye" photos162.1.19.113 (talk) 23:02, 23 March 2009 (UTC) Patty Brady IN, USA

What about yellow-gray?

Guys, and what about dark gray eyes with yellowish tint? Are they supposed to be hazel/amber? Actually, the article says that "Under magnification, gray eyes exhibit the least amount of yellow and brown color in the iris. These colors, when mixed with gray, create the blue and green hues", and, for example, my eyes can be transparent as gray but with slight yellowish tint although they do look definitely lighter than green ones, no blue at all.. Are these ones considerd hazel/amber as well? Der_Ritter 23:01, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

European and non-European

Under the Brown section: "Those with both European and non-European ancestry generally have dark eyes and more variability in eye color within their families." That sounds to me like "Earth people tend to have dark eyes." It'd be rather difficult to be not European and not non-European. What's actually meant could be 'a person with a European AND non-European 'mixed' background'. In which case, should the article be more specific by what background they mean? Shouriki 00:23, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Maybe it could be phrased better, I imagine the intention was correctly to say that even Europeans (Europe being the continent with the highest proportion of light eyes) mainly have dark eyes.--Lord of the Isles 02:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Questionable sentence

I removed this:

Eye color is demanding, as all four genes must determine the same color for the eye color to be pure; otherwise a mixed color such as hazel will result.[19] [20]

Neither of the articles say what the sentence claims. Does anyone know where it came from? Is it a typo? Tocharianne 21:52, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

What would cause this

my eyes are a very dark brown color and have splotches of onyx black all over inside the iris. what would cause that color pattern? The Umbrella Corporation 07:25, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Specks of more concentrated pigmentation than the overall background of the iris can appear black. If you're born with them it's just a natural genetic variation. Many people have pigment specks in their eyes.Lorielle 23:23, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

My eyes are a sort of mixture of blue, grey, yellow, green and hazel, but there is a ring of darker flecks around the pupil of both eyes with varying shades of dark flecks - some tawny, some dark brown and some black. Most people except for some with jet black eyes, have obvious variations in the colouring and even in people with apparently even eye colour including black, a retinal scan would show up pigmentation variations across the eye.--Lord of the Isles (talk) 13:42, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Article quality

For a biological article that is so popular and rather important, I feel this write-up is really quite poor. Some essentially obscure articles on the Wikipedia webpage are actually written to a far greater degree of accuracy and lack the exclusive quality this article comprises. For example, there are no photographs of any Negro or Asian samples, and furthermore, the article lacks sections on 'black' eye colour, as well as 'red' eye colour. The first of these eye colours is, arguably, the most common eye colour in the world (depending on how 'brown' is categorised) and the second eye colour occurs in instances of 1 in 12,000 humans born. I personally feel that is high enough to constitute mention. Another useful alteration would be to merge 'Grey' and 'Violet' eye-colours into the 'blue' section, since they are essentially cosmetic interpretations of variation in blue iris saturation, and presenting them under relevant subsections. Lastly, the photograph of 'an eye-colour that is too hard to ascertain' should be framed as a 'Caucasian' sample, given more background information, and placed at the top of the article as opposed to the green section. More emphasis should be placed on the differences among phenotype and genotype all through the article, not just at the end where one eye colour is concerned, and there should be a section outlining popular misconceptions with regard to eye colour, as well as some of the wider social implications posed by this central feature of human appearance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.77.198.217 (talk) 10:49, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

If you have the time to do such an overhaul to the article (which I agree, needs it), then go for it. It seems others here lack either time, interest, or knowledge, so some parts improve while others stay the same, which is why it's all so incoherent. -Bbik^★ 14:21, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Negro? Um...congratulations on time-traveling from the 1950s to the present. You should probably know that 'Negro' is now considered somewhat offensive. Ninquerinquar 20:19, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

first paragraph minor corrections, innacurate sentence

"Eye color is a polygenic trait and is determined primarily by the amount and type of pigments present in the eye's iris.[1][2] Humans and animals have many phenotypic variations in eye color.[3] In humans, these variations in color are attributed to varying ratios of eumelanin produced by melanocytes in the iris.[2]"

The first sentence is very good, the 2nd ok, but the 3rd, is redundant to the first, while being inaccurate. The article cited [2], discusses ratios of eumelanin and pheomelanin, ratios require 2 variables, so saying that color depends on varying ratios of eumelanin is not very meaningful, you could say "quantity" instead, but the article is being specific about different types of melanins, thus either specify them, which would fit with the following sentence, or drop this sentence entirely. 77.42.129.120 11:24, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Too many grey eye pictures?

There are already three photos of grey eyes, but I think it's enough to have just one picture of grey eyes here. Alicenoemi 11:10, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

I think there should at least be two, of the light grey and dark grey, respectively. One of the three currently there could go, although the close-up is useful too. A picture says more than a thousand words... Lorielle 23:43, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Hazel eye color! 2 other eye colors not listed in the wikipedia eye color page.

Under Hazel eye color, it states that "In North America, "hazel" is often used to describe eyes that appear to change color, ranging from light brown to green and even blue, depending on current lighting in the environment." This is not true at all! Hazel eye color, like any other eye colors, cannot change colors at all, and hazel eyes cannot change from light brown to blue, maybe from light brown to dark green, but not from light brown to green to blue, even with environmental lighting! It is impossible!

Also, the current pic of the eye on the right side under "hazel eyes" is not a hazel eye at all! Also, it is not a green eye, gray eye or brown eye, either! The iris in that pic is described as being a dark gray iris with an orange center near the pupil and green towards the outside. That is definitely not a hazel eye color and should be put as the posterchild eye color for a new eye color category known as "multicolor" eyes.

Also, shouldn't there be a section for "maroon" eyes on the eye colors page? I've never seen maroon eyes before, but have heard tales of law enforcement officers pursuing criminals and describing the criminal as having maroon eyes. So a section for "multicolor" and "maroon" eye colors would be good for the "eye color" page.

12.28.69.65 02:16, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Changing eye color through hypnosis

Eye color can apparently be altered through hypnosis [21]

This should probably be mentioned in the "eye color change" section dearly 22:50, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

It's an advert, not an article in a medical journal, research paper or even an article in a respected newspaper, it cannot be considered either a informed source or an impartial one.--Lord of the Isles 02:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I never heard of anything like that. If it was so easy, the world would be full of blue-eyed people everywhere (it is a beauty standard in most places of the world). And even though that link mentions that eye color can be change through surgeries, I've also never heard of anything similar. Although I've read about some cases of depigmentation in eye's irises through contact with Hydroquinone. --SangeYasha 06:35, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Changing appearance through hypnosis, along with beliefs in phrenology were the stuff of the speculations of some of the more ambitious doctors of the 18th and 19th centuries, and live on these days merely to amuse us in horror films. There are means of directly altering eye colour and of course skin colour - both of lightening and darkening. In the case of changing eye colour then other than using contact lenses, the Ancient Egyptians used Belladonna to cause the pupils to dilate making the eyes appear darker - if I recall correctly and also it was used in the renaissance, many chemicals for altering appearance (many very dangerous) have been fashionable down the ages, many of which were extremley dangerous. Joseph Mengele experimented with turning eyes blue using salt crystals, but always caused impairment of vision and in many cases blindness. Twins were usually used for such experiments because the genetic simularity made it easier to compare results of different chemicals on different twins. No doubt this is all covered elsewhere in Wikipedia and probably goes beyond the scope of this article.--Lord of the Isles 19:06, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree. That hypnosis would be able to affect pigmentation is just absurd. Possibly, one could be hypnotised to feel a particular emotion which might slightly affect how closed or open the pupil is, which in turn could make the eye appear darker or lighter, but that's a very marginal effect that would take some very careful observation to detect. Hardly the same thing as changning one's iris colour.

Because the iris is iridescent, the only way I know to slightly affect how the eye colour appears to others would be to use clothes and make-up to enhance one's natural eye-colour in one direction or another, either by contrast or by likeness; e.g. you can to get grey eyes to appear more grey, green or blue; amber eyes to appear more green or more brown; and brown eyes to appear a warmer or cooler brown etc.), but that's an art that takes considerable skill. Lorielle 23:59, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

There was a Mythbusters on this, and it didn't work. If this is mentioned, then the tests showing that it doesn't work should be too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.21.97.131 (talk) 13:25, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Can anyone confirm this?

See this: [22] -- After I posted a comment above, I did some search and found that. But, maybe is this Dr. Manu talking about the darkening of the irides through the use of Latanoprost, or it is really a recent discovery of a surgery that can change the irides colours? The site doesn't seem very formal to me, but Manu adresses himself as an ophthalmologist. Does anyone have more information on this issue? SangeYasha 07:34, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

David Bowie?

The article "Eye color" reports that David Bowie does not have heterochromia; however, the article "List of people with heterochromia" cites David Bowie as having heterochromia. Just pointing out the inconsistency. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.97.43.175 (talk) 05:07, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

One iris was damaged, the pupil is constantly dilated. This gives the impression of odd coloured eyes. Urselius 09:01, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, Bowie's "heterochromatic" eye was damaged in a childhood accident, which leaked blood into the iris, creating the appearance of a [partially] brown eye. Paperxcrip (talk) 18:54, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Sloppy science

There is at least one section saying "..... eye colour is most common in people of Celtic, Germanic and Slavic descent." This is nonsense, the groups mentioned are language groups, not genetic groups. Eye colour and language are not connected in any scientifically valid manner.

Bretons and Hebridean Islanders are both Celtic, I would submit that the average frequency of pale eyes in the two groups would be very different. The same applies to Tyrolese Austrians and Uppland Swedes, not to mention Serbs and Byelorussians.

If you mean people with Northern European ancestry say this don't bring language groups into the equation. Urselius 08:59, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I absolutely agree, those and linguistic groups of people. The person who wrote that was either uneducated or biased. The genetic group that most commonly carries "pale" eyes are the Northern Europeans. Eye Color is not carried by language but through genetic lineage. This should be common sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sataki (talk • contribs) 06:28, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Blue/Yellow eyes?

My eyes have a solid ring of yellow around the pupil and then blue surrounding it, making them two solid colors (no green). No matter the amount of light there is, or lack thereof, they basically stay the same. Looking at the article, there seems to be no sort of category for Blue/Yellow. Seeing as they aren't just plain Blue, Yellow, nor Green, I do not know what to certainly call my eyes. I'll add a link to them right here.[23] Thanks. --Sataka 01:09, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Try Eye color#Heterochromia. -Bbik^★ 07:52, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Ah, so it'd be among the lines of partial or sectoral heterochromia? Thanks for your clerification.--Sataka 02:16, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I take that back, it's among the lines of central heterochromia. My bad.--Sataka 20:06, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Er..they look plain blue to me. There is very little yellow compared to about 90% blue. And many blue eyes have small yellow, orange or brown rings in the middle. It's a pretty common occurrence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashantifan1224 (talk • contribs) 05:48, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Green Eyes Eastern Europe?

I think that Green eyes like Blue eyes were originated in Northern Europe not in Eastern or Southern Europe!

• No one knows where any eye colour originated. Funkynusayri 20:04, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Many scientist believe that the mutation of light eyes originated around the Baltic Sea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.222.198.195 (talk) 09:40, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

• They may believe so, but it's not a fact. Funkynusayri 14:10, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

While the exact origin of green and blue eyes is unknown, it is definite that they are equally common among both Northern and Eastern Europeans, the grey-blue hue being dominant among Belarusians and ethnic Russians [24]. Well, of course, geographically their countries lie to the north of, say, Denmark or Holland, but they're hardly Northern European. The highest percentage of light-eyed and blond Europeans may be found among the Finns and Estonians, especially among the representatives of the Baltic phenotype. --Humanophage 12:58, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

"Green" eyes is a watered-down version of brown. It is what happens when blue-eyed genes are introduced into a people who are generally well-pigmented with dominant dark genes. It is far more common in Southern Europe and the Middle East than in Northern Europe.

That simply makes no sense. I know a few green-eyed people, including my husband and my mother, who have very green, VERY pale eyes - paler than almost any shade of blue I've ever seen, and decidedly GREEN, without a trace of blue or brownish anything. How would one account for that if green eyes are just supposed to contain more melanin than blue eyes, as an intermediate point between brown and blue? Succubus MacAstaroth (talk) 22:10, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Being from Sweden myself I can say with certaintly that here most Scandinavians have grey-blue eyes, not green. Lorielle 00:13, 31 January 2008 (UTC)~

• "::"Green" eyes is a watered-down version of brown" ahahah who said that idiocy ?? actually the scientist are still studying the gene that produce green eyes..surely they are not a "mix" between brown and blue as someone said ! that's a middle school's statement !

"Scientists still don’t know exactly how green eyes happen. They suspect that a separate gene causes green eyes and have even named this unidentified gene gey (green eye). OCA2 and gey are thought to work together to produce brown, green, and blue eyes."

eye color changes

i have blue-grey eyes, but they always change color (it looks like i have green eyes sometimes or blue or grey). any ideas? ☻wilted☻rose☻dying☻rose☻ 20:18, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Blue-grey eyes are iridescent and therefore very easily reflect surrounding colour, light and what one is wearing. It is perfectly normal that they will sometimes appear blue, sometimes green and sometimes grey. (Mine do too.) Lorielle (colour consultant) 00:18, 31 January 2008 (UTC)~

• when i was born i had dark brown eyes..now i have blue-green eyes

That is a phenomenon I've never heard of, only the other way around, i.e. being born with blue eyes and developing more pigment later on. Lorielle 01:34, 31 January 2008 (UTC)~

That'd be why, Lorielle, thanks! [[dark.]][[arias.]] (talk) 20:22, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

I was born with dark brown eyes and i don't know around 18 they started to change back and forth from brown and hazel just ramdomly, now I am 23 and they still change from brown to hazel but they also change to dark green and bright green. I woke up in the middle of the night and looked in the mirror and they were the brightest green eyes I've ever seen and it was actually kinda scary, like looking at someone else in the mirror. I also had my husband look at them so it wasn't just my imagination. Is it normal for them to change so dramatically at completly random instances? Right now they are brown again so it's not like they are changing color permanently. I understand mood can play a role but is that what this probably is?--Politicallyme (talk) 20:43, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Middle east and Asians with Green eyes

These are not green but are hazel. for some reason when a person is not of european decent and has hazel eyes they call them green eyes. Thats not green eyes. There used to be 2 pictures of 2 people of middle east decent with hazel eyes listed on the green eyes section. Muslims and asians do not have green eyes they have hazel. Change this to the hazel eye section. There is no proof that muslims and asians have green eyes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SixthDream115 (talk • contribs) 18:42, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Both Middle Easterners and South Asians, as well as North Africans for that matter, can have bona fide green eyes. You're being silly. If you want sources, check this [25] this [26] this [27], and this: [28]

Sharbat Gula.

Otherwise there are plenty examples of celebrities from these regions with green or blue eyes. Also, there's the green eyed Afghan girl everybody knows about, that you could ignore her is pretty funny.

For the record, Muslims can look like anything, they're not a race or something like that. Just like Christians can look like anything. Should be common knowledge. Funkynusayri 12:07, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

The girl in the picture has hazel eyes. There is blue, green and brown in her eyes. Thats not green. You must either have a green eye person in your family to have green eyes so these people are either mixed or have hazel eyes. The source you gave is not reliable just someone saying middle eastern people have green eyes. My proof is that the picture you provided is clearing Hazel eyes. Find a source with a real picture of someone with real green eyes thats not white. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SixthDream115 (talk • contribs) 12:34, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Your arguments are vague. The sources are sources, if they are "bad" you'll have to prove it. The image is widely described as depicting a girl with green eyes, anyhow, I don't need to post a picture of a non-European person with green eyes if I have reliable sources stating such exist. That's how Wikipedia works,

This is not about being "white", green and blue eyes can occur in pretty much any population. Funkynusayri 12:46, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Er. Well, first of all, those do (at a glance, anyhow) look like reliable sources, they have citations and stuff at the bottom. However, they also don't seem to support your argument. Based on what I saw, they say that mixed green and brown (aka hazel) is a common color, but nothing about pure green, although the first one did mention the existence of pure blue in the group. -Bbik^★ 14:03, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

• Green eyes would thus be inherent in these populations, if blue and brown are present. Hardly needs to be separately mentioned, when the two "source colours" already are. Funkynusayri 14:12, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
• Green-brown eyes and green eyes are not the same thing.Green-brown mean light brown more than green —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.222.200.149 (talk) 20:22, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
• No one said they were the same thing, but that the presence of both blue, brown, and green-brown eyes makes it obvious that people with regular green eyes exist there too. Funkynusayri 20:30, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

• Green-brown mean hazel eyes not green! .i never saw arabian or cambogian guy with green eyes.Who wrote that green eyes are common in middle east or south asia?.Only european have pure green or pure blue eyes.For Example in india or in Iran very few people have blond-red hair and green or blue eyes.This because nordic tribe (the indoeuropeans) migration in Asia from Northern Europe about 5000 years ago. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.222.211.154 (talk) 20:56, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
• Well, you're wrong. There are plenty of people in the Middle East with blue, hazel, and green eyes. Notable xamples could be Bashar al Assad, the president of Syria, and Emile Lahoud, president of Lebanon. This has nothing to do with "Nordic tribes". Funkynusayri 21:40, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
• The modern people of the middle-east are a mixture of races.Many Europeans people had conquered the east in the History.Greeks,Romans,Crusaders etc...the arabians or middle-easterns in general who have light hair or light eyes have europeans ancestry. Bashar al-Assad looks like europeans because he's european too. Iran mean "Country of the Aryans" because aryans have conquered that land Thousands years ago...still today some iranians have blond red or light brown hair and light eyes. THIS IS HISTORY! if you don't know history,don't write.

• Exactly, if you don't know history, or genetics for that matter, don't write. You seem to know squat about both, so it certainly applies. Europeans are the genetic descendants of Middle Easterners, not the other way around, and what we today call Iran wasn't "conquered by Aryans", the Aryans originated there, and looked like modern day Iranians. Modern day Iranians are the descendants of the "Aryans", not the Nordic "master race", as falsely claimed by the Nazis.

By the way, how exactly is Bashar al Assad "European"? Funkynusayri 22:56, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

The man Bashar al Assad obliviously has white ancestry by his looks. Green eyes or blue in middle easterners is not natural they are usually mixed people or they have hazel which can be found it lots of races. Whites did not come from the middle east. There is DNA evidence that supports what I say. Whites and Middle Easterner's DNA different. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SixthDream115 (talk • contribs) 03:45, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

The artile about hazel eyes has a picture of someones eyes with green and brown and looks exactly like the arab girl you said has green eyes. Hazel means more than one color and the girl has blue green eyes with brown in the middle. How am i Ignoring her. Her eyes are hazel. So stop refering to her. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SixthDream115 (talk • contribs) 03:54, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Map of human migrations.

This genetic distance map made in 2002 is an estimate of 18 world human groups by a neighbour-joining method based on 23 kinds of genetic information.

Europeans are descendants of Middle Easterners, it's a genetic fact. Europeans and Middle Easterners are within the same genetic cluster, "Caucasians", so there's not much to discuss about that issue. Take a look at the maps on the right.

As for the Afghan girl, who by the way isn't an Arab, she is widely famous for her green eyes, so I don't really care if some guy on the Internet claims she hasn't. Funkynusayri 06:09, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

• I'm not Nazi! I'm not racist!i just wanna say the true.Europe and Asia were conquered by Indoeuropeans.

Indoeuropeans came from south russia, between Black sea and Caspian sea. They were white.Some years ago in China were found mummies of white people,the Tocarians (indoeuropeans).Many of these mummies were blond and red-haired like the northen Europeans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_migration

http://www.msmoran.com/mummieseurope.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_Mummies —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.223.4.177 (talk) 08:37, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Yet your arguments are discredited Nazi theories. "Indo European" is a lingistic term and has nothing to do with race, and no one knows where they originated. Anyhow, they're irrelevant to the discussion. Funkynusayri 16:25, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

• Indo-Europeans theorie is not a Nazi theorie.What the function of ligth eyes in Middle-East?? the climate is torrid!

is obvious the fact that they're not originated in this place

No one said that the original Indo-Aryans were invented by Nazis, but the theory that these people were identical to modern day North Europeans is a ridiculous result of the bad science at the time (late 1800s, early 1900s), and isn't taken seriously by anyone today. As for why Middle Easterners should have light eyes, well, why should Europeans? No one knows as a fact what they're for. Funkynusayri 17:53, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

• Lightly pigmented eyes are indigenous only to Europe. The remainder are most likely a result of mixed European ancestry, such as in Northern Africa or Afghanistan and Northern India. Recall the Germanic invasions of North Africa, many of these Germanic tribes settled and left genetic traces of their presence in these regions. That's why we encounter green-eyed Algerians or Lebanese, Turks, etc. But these traits or not indigenous to the region. Simple as that. Koalorka (talk) 19:05, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Means nothing without sources. Simple as that. Funkynusayri —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.121.66.185 (talk) 16:21, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
I dont know what funkys idea is by denying that blue/green eyes etc are european. Europeans in africa?what bout this? [[29]]Or british empire?Or enourmous slave trade by arabs/ottoman empire(stopped first in the 1900s)[30] aso aso.

• It isn't a scientific fact, but pure speculation, that's why I'm not simply patting your back. Funkynusayri (talk) 23:30, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

There are indeed Asians with light eyes, the frequency is absurdly low, but they do exist. The Kalash in Pakistan are a good example. By the way, to the person who started the discussion, being a Muslim has no relation to your eye color at all. A Muslim is an adept of Islam, not some ethnic group.

To the person arguing that it was impossible for light eyes' mutation to happen and survive in sunny places, that argument makes no sense at all. The true reason for such a mutation in Europe remains unknown, and just because it could have happened in Northern Europe, or just because it is mostly common there, it doesn't mean that the cold weather is necessarily involved, Correlation does not imply causation. A lot of people in my family and I have light eyes, we live in Brazil, and we SURVIVE. Your dwarvinistic explanation is too idealistic and makes no sense. Also, even if living in a sunny place with light eyes were such a huge disadvantage, it wouldn't necessarily stop people from reproducing. There are several genetic abnormalities around today that have existed for ages, and we still inherit them. Also, if you're looking for a function for them, could be simply a male preference for light-eyed women, it doesn't have to involve the climate.

The fact is, there are people in Middle-East and Asia with no recent European antecedents who still have light eyes. Debating whether they inherited their eye color from Europeans or not is useless without sources, you can't just claim that everyone with light eyes descend from Europeans without providing a valid in-depth study about it.--Faitudum (talk) 02:04, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Girl with Green Eyes

The girl in the picture clearly has eyes which appear greenish however individual parts of the eyes are coloured, in fact the correct technical term for eyes with multiple colouring in both eyes is indeterminate. Hazel is a nut colour, more a greyish or greenish brown. My eyes have a mixture of blue, grey, yellow, tawny, hazel and greenish bits with tawny and dark brown flecks in the middle - personally I would describe them as indeterminate, despite having very dark bits in although mostly light I would say they were definitely not hazel, and if they were to be described as anything would more appropriately be described as greenish, and actually it isn't quite as simple as everyone with a particular eye colour having genes for that colour - green eyes for example could be caused by a mixture of genes that would be expected to tend to cause blue eyes with others such as ones that would be likely to cause brown, black or grey eyes; equally problems with recombination can cause someone with genes that would be expected to have brown eyes instead having eyes of another colour.--Lord of the Isles 13:46, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

• Yes, so if both blue and brown eyes are found in these countries, it's pretty obvious that green ones do too. Funkynusayri 16:25, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

People with green eyes are either found in a country or not, if they aren't then they aren't whether people with blue eyes or brown eyes are or not. If they are then they are even if no one in the country had blue or brown eyes. I doubt there is a country in the world where there isn't a proportion of the population with shades of blue, grey, green, yellow, hazel, brown and black eyes and of course indeterminate - it's about the proportions of the populations with those colourings, the number with black eyes in Sweden or Finland will be very small, numbers with blue, grey or green eyes in tropical Africa and Southern India and Yemen will also be very small but there will always be the odd one and it can't neccessarily be put down to mixing with other groups because of the numbers of different possible causes including eye damage, conditions such as albinism.--Lord of the Isles 19:09, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

this is not true becuz i have green eyes and i am from india my moms has them and my cousin and we are 100% asain —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.215.131.166 (talk) 15:07, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

East Asians don't have blue, green, grey eyes. This is due to their major dominance of their traits.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yowiphone (talk • contribs) 11:35, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Quote: "These are not green but are hazel. for some reason when a person is not of european decent and has hazel eyes they call them green eyes. Thats not green eyes. There used to be 2 pictures of 2 people of middle east decent with hazel eyes listed on the green eyes section. Muslims and asians do not have green eyes they have hazel. Change this to the hazel eye section. There is no proof that muslims and asians have green eyes. "

Wow. To the person that posted this: What an unbelievabely ignorant statement. Let me help you out. Islam is a religion, followed by people called "Muslims". Anyone can become a Muslim, the same way anyone can become a Christian. So Muslims can have any hair/eye/skin color. o_o Now that that's settled.. Green eyes DO in fact exist in the Middle East. So do blue and grey eyes. In fact, green eyes are fairly common in the Middle East. In the country Jordan, for example, about 20% of people have hazel, green or blue eyes. I went over there and did a study on eye color. I was very surprised! I noted that hazel was common, green was uncommon, and blue was rare. I have also been to Palestine/Israel, Egypt, Kuwait and Bahrain, and have seen people with green and blue eyes in all of those countries. I surveyed some of them, and most told me that all of their ancestors were from the Middle East. So you see, do some research before blurting out like that next time!--Ashantifan1224 (talk) 06:11, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Italians only 20% of Light Eyes???

"One survey estimated that nearly 90% of Icelanders have blue or green eyes,[41] in contrast to 20% of Spaniards and Italians of the north."

This is not true at all!

This is a study of italians by Carleton S. Coon in 1939:

    TRAIT       NORTH SOUTH
  Hair Blondism  15%  6%*  
  Brown Hair     40%  48%
  Black Hair     25%  30%
  Eye Blondism  65%  56%  = (Blue,Green,Hazel eyes)
  Brunet Skin  ~50%  >50%  
  Average Height  168 cm  165 cm  (in modern day 176,9 cm 174,8 cm)
  Cephalic Index **  83.5  79  

• Red and reddish-brown hair shades were observed in an additional 16% of this sample.
  • Above 81 is in the Alpine-Dinaric range, and below 76 in the Mediterranean range.

AUTHOR: Carleton S. Coon (1939)

http://racialreality.110mb.com/italians.html

• Eye blondish merely means non-brown eyes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.254.192.215 (talk) 21:19, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

• In fact,non-brown eyes means Light Eyes: Blue,Green,Hazel. There are no other human eye color.

That's from 1939, if you want to change the information, you will need an actual study. And for that, we have one that states very different informations: http://cogweb.ucla.edu/ep/Frost_06.html - --201.53.61.233 (talk) 16:08, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

• This is the Map of Peter Frost of Light eyes , is wrong !! I believe that Mr.Frost study the italians watching films like the GodFather or Soprano, becuase is ridicolus that Syrians , Iranians ,Moroccans ,Turks and Greeks have an high percentage of light eyes than italians.

http://cogweb.ucla.edu/ep/images/Frost-2.jpg

i have very different maps :

http://carnby.altervista.org/lundraces/lundman-races1.htm

• The map used by Frost is old (1965) anyway is really wrong , maybe Sicilians,Calabrians and Sardinians have that percentage of Light Eyes (1-19%)and however the high percentage of Turks ,Greeks,Iranians and Portoguese with light eyes is really funny . This is a map of the percentage of Light Eyes in Italy (Blue , Green , Gray) according with the studies of Renato Biasutti

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immagine:Light_eyes_map.jpg

P.S. in Italy Blue,Blue-Green or Blue with brown spot are the most common light eye color , pure green eyes are very rare

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.11.202.110 (talk) 13:31, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

EYCL1,EYCL2,EYCL3

-EYCL1: A gene for green/blue eye color located on chromosome 19. http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=25004

-EYCL2: A gene for brown eye color. http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=25005

-EYCL3: A gene for brown/blue eye color located on chromosome 15. http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=25006 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.222.222.8 (talk) 10:09, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Jorlab (talk) 08:49, 10 February 2008 (UTC)The genes EYCL1, EYCL2,and EYCL3 are in fact the same gene, also named OCA2. The different names are just aliases (http://www.genecards.org/cgi-bin/carddisp.pl?gene=OCA2; http://www.genecards.org/cgi-bin/carddisp.pl?gene=EYCL3). The statement in this entry indicating that EYCL1, 2 and 3 are different genes should be removed.

Green eyes in Chinese Mythology

The new finds are forcing a re-examination of old Chinese books that describe historical or legendary figures of great height, with deep-set blue or green eyes, long noses, full beards, and red or blond hair. Scholars have traditionally scoffed at these accounts, but it now transpires that these accounts were correct.

One of these accounts can be found in the song to the great general Lü by the Chinese poet Li He (circa 790-816 AD) in his "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" :

Song: General Lü

General Lü,

The valiant-hearted,

Riding alone on Scarlet Hare,

Out of the gates of Ch'in,

To weep at Gold Grain Mound

By funeral trees.

Inscrutable that vaulted azure,

Arching over earth,

This is the way the world wags

In our Nine Provinces.

Gleaming ore from Scarlet Hill!

Hero of our time!

Green-eyed general, you well know

The will of Heaven!

http://www.white-history.com/hwr6a.htm

Blue eyes recessive?

Definition of Eye color

Eye color: The color of the iris. The genetics of eye color are complicated. Eye color is polygenic. It is determined by multiple genes. The eye color genes include EYCL1 (a green/blue eye color gene located on chromosome 19), EYCL2 (a brown eye color gene) and EYCL3 (a brown/blue eye color gene located on chromosome 15). There are clearly other genes that influence eye color. The once-held view that blue eye color is a simple recessive trait has been shown to be wrong. The genetics of eye color are so complex that almost any parent-child combination of eye colors can occur.

http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=25003

People should also read about this, here: http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/jan2002/1012348094.Ge.r.html

Greys eyes contradictions?

1. No brown or little brown pigment?

Classification of colors

"Gray eyes appear gray because they have a little yellow and no brown in them."

Gray

"Under magnification, gray eyes exhibit small amounts of yellow and brown color in the iris."

2. Grey is a predominant eye color of it's own or it's a shade of blue?

Classification of colors

"There are 3 true colors in the eyes that determine the outward appearance; brown, yellow, and gray."

Gray

"Gray eyes are a variant of blue eyes..." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.227.31.165 (talk) 06:36, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

What?

"Ireland is the country with the highest proportion of blue-eyed people"

infact the scandinavians are all brown-eyed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.223.11.131 (talk) 20:34, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

have a look at this research: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/110521660/ABSTRACT —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.146.109.187 (talk) 16:38, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

A quote from Carlton Coon: "In the proportion of pure light eyes, Ireland competes successfully with the blondest regions of Scandinavia. Over 46 per cent of the total group has pure light eyes, and of these all but 4 per cent are blue. Very light-mixed eyes (equivalent to Martin #13-14) account for another 30 per cent, while less than one-half of one per cent have pure brown. There is probably no population of equal size in the world which is lighter eyed, and blue eyed, than the Irish."

• Coon was a charlatan , a lot of people in Ireland have brown eyes ,especially in the west coast. Irish population is more mediterranean than nordic.

His theories were absolute rubbish, but do you think he invented his measurements?

But you are also confused, it seems. You seem to think that there is a 'nordic' race with blond hair and blue eyes. But the distribution of blond hair and blue eyes are different. Pure platinum blond is most frequently accopmanied with grey, not blue eyes. You are assuming that the areas with the highest concentration of blond hair are also the areas with the highest frequency of blue eyes. This is an erroneous assumption.

The area with the highest concentration of 'pure' blue eyes is undoubtedly Ireland, where the dark hair / blue eye combination is most common, followed by areas of Britain, Scandinavia and the Baltic.

• Ok maybe you have reason but if the pure Blue eyes are linked with dark hair and grey eyes are linked with blond hair , green eyes are linked to? (I mean pure green eyes not hazel eyes) The stereotype says that green eyes are often combined with freckles and red hair but i don't know if is true or false.

Also Coon said that southern italians have the 56% of percentage of light eyes , is true? Northern and Central italians are fair but southern italians i don't know ...

No one should take Coon seriously, and not for the fact of being a charlatan, but for his time (1939). By the time being, people should look at Peter Frost's studies: http://cogweb.ucla.edu/ep/Frost_06.html -

• Peter Frost's studies are completely wrong ,an example : Spaniards are more dark than Italians but in Peter Frost's map in Spain light eyes are more diffuse than Italy, false ! another thing, according to his map moroccans are more blond than italian , another idiocy , the right percentage of light eyes and light hair is that of Coon.

• • I suppose Peter Frost bought his diploma, and bribed an university from other continent to work with his charlatan studies. And that, of course, you are a specialist on the subject, so I should not doubt that more than 50% of the Italians are light-haired and light-eyed, even if the Italian stereotype is of black-haired and darker skinned persons than northern europeans. And even if the Definitions of whiteness in the United States has historical sources that "Italians had been colloquially considered "ethnic" or "not quite white" along with some other southern European immigrants, such as Greeks, Albanians, Romanians and Bulgarians".

• • And you should research before talking: "Indeed, the Guanches are deemed to be related to the Berbers of neighboring Morocco, who are, likewise, tall, blond and blue-eyed when unmixed with the Arab majority." [31]

• Only Southern Italians are dark . Have you ever seen a Lombard or a Tuscan with dark skin ???? The italians are sterotyped dark because Italian-American are mostly (90%) Sicilians and Calabrians . Oh.. according to your absurd http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_whiteness_in_the_United_States , Irish and Germans were not considered white by Americans and also says "However, northern Italian immigrants were seen as a more "desirable nationality" after northern Europeans." for example i'm from Central italy(Marche) and i have light brown hair and blue-green eyes like the majority of central and northern italians, i'm white or black?...If you are the typical American W.A.S.P. who hate the italians ,please go to .....

Dark italians? the majority have brown hair and light eyes , have a look:

http://racialreality.110mb.com/north.html

http://racialreality.110mb.com/center.html

and again:

http://www.white-history.com/earlson/nordic_italy.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.222.200.138 (talk) 09:47, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

• • • WASP? Lol. The fact is, what is the problem with not having blond hair and light eyes? I REALLY doubt Peter Frost's studies to be so famous if they weren't accurate.
    • Italians are white (more than 80%, I would say), and they can have light eyes, but that is only predominant on the north. I know that because I went to the german-speaking areas, Tuscany and Rome. Now go to Magdeburg, in Germany, and see difference. If that can make you feel better, let's say that the Germans are albinos. All the Italians that I saw were white, but not "albinos". I saw many with green eyes and brown hair, but not as a majority, as I saw in German.
    • I don't like to discuss things like that on wikipedia, because I really don't get the problem. So just prove me with a reliable source that Peter Frost is wrong, then I seal my mouth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.53.61.233 (talk) 15:25, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

• I travel a lot too and for example Bavarians,Austrians and Frenchs are very similar to Northern italians and Central (Umbrians,Marchigians and Tuscans).A nyway Rome is not a good example because during the fascism was populated by people from Campania,C alabria and Sicily , go in the countryside near Rome and you see the difference , Tuscany the same thing a lot of Neapolitans settled in Tuscany after the II WW . However the percentage of light eyes in Peter Frost map is wrong , because in the north the percentage is about 40% in Central italy 30-35% and in the south 20-25% , blue eyes are more common than green eyes (they are very rare in all the world), blond hair 15-25 % in the north 10-15% in the center an 5-10 % in the south , the rest are brown ,reddish-brown or dark brown and black hair in minority (20-25%)

This is a map of hair blondism in italy by Biasutti (pure blond hair , not dark blond or light brown)

http://aycu37.webshots.com/image/38316/2003631590295084685_rs.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.222.215.153 (talk) 16:44, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

• • Then I really suggest you to contact Peter Frost, because his studies are used in wikipedia at a great scale (I was only aware to his studies because of wikipedia). The site seems trustful, since it is not saying 99% of the italians are blond and blue-eyed (this doesn't happen in any country of the world, maybe a really small and isolated village with no genetic drifts, which is also virtually impossible). Hopefully, he will change his map. And if he doesn't, it would be good to paste this map in some article. But he is a scholar, and his reputation depend on that, so I think a nice e-mail can solve all this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.53.61.233 (talk) 23:52, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Guys, let me insert into this discussion that Ireland has three rather distinct colour types: 1. The darkhaired with bright blue, green or brown eyes; 2. The famous celtic redheads; 3. Quite a few blonds, which are most likely ancestors of the Scandinavian Viking raiders (a genetic test in England, aired on Discovery Channel I think, turned out quite a few of those there and it is well known that Vikings came to Ireland too).

So, when talking about various peoples of Europe, one must not forget the enormous mixing that has been going on, especially during the last 1500 years. Here in Sweden, for example, we have had far more southern immigration than in the rest of Scandinavia and thus the most common hair colour here is not blond but mouse-brown with grey eyes. True platinum blonds like Linda Brava can now only be found in Finland, Iceland and the Baltic states. Lorielle 00:39, 31 January 2008 (UTC)~

contradicting information

on "eye color mocks easy rules"(reference 8) it is stated that an baby's eye color stabilizes at the age of 3, but both in the article and in the reference 11 it says that a baby's eye color stabilizes at the age of 6 months.

This article is a mess.

It looks like people from each country in the world are throwing links (ignoring wikipedia format) to prove that in their countries there are many people with light eyes. In the article and the talk page.

How can this sentence: "Only 1-2% of the world's population has green eyes and it is the least common eye color."

Be compatible with this one: "'Red' eyes are also found in an extremely small percentage of the world's population, as low as 0.420%"

Green cannot be the least common when red and purple eyes are less common. This article is a mess. 76.182.213.20 (talk) 17:23, 1 June 2008 (UTC)CN

I think it means to say green is the least prevalent common eye colour. Red and violet are far rarer obviously. --86.140.61.161 (talk) 18:49, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, the article itself defines no group called "common eye colors". Stating that green eyes are the rarest eye color already overcome all of the other colors recognized by the article, including red and violet. I have removed that statement as there was also no source provided, and one of the sources used by article says that violet eyes are rarer than green eyes.--Faitudum (talk) 18:03, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Another Map

Map of pigmentation :Hair & Eyes , i think is more affidable than Peter Frost's map:

http://aycu29.webshots.com/image/39908/2003854802501020027_rs.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.223.7.157 (talk) 08:26, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Depressing Continuation of Outdated Attitudes

This whole discussion page is deeply depressing.

People from various countries trying to maximise the proportion of depigmentation to be found in their native populations. Why? What demonstrable advantage do depigmented people have over the more pigmented?

I think that the origin of this attitude is to be found in the slave trade. In Medieval Europe St Maurice was depicted as a Sub-saharan African (see any number of German ecclesiastical sculptures), and was deeply venerated. But when the practice of enslaving Sub-saharan Aficans, in order to populate the Americas with forced labour, began Europeans had to find some way of rationalising why these people could be treated so barbarically. The result of this introspection being that they were darker than Europeans and therefore sufficiently different so as to be not quite fully human. The corollory of this observation was that the more depigmented a person, or population, was the less like the debased slave he or they were, and therefore the more elevated in nature they were.

The result of this thought process was that the blue-eyed blond was the highest product of creation, to which all must aspire. In the words of Hillaire Belloc:

"Behold my son the Nordic man And be as like him as you can. His legs are long, his mind is slow His hair is lank and made of tow."

Of course this view does not hold up to any real scrutiny. If the depigmented were so blest in superiority then the Swedes and Finns should have had a far greater input into the sum of human knowledge and civilisation than the more pigmented Greeks, Italians, French, Spaniards, British etc etc.

I'm still trying to think of a Finnish philosopher, artist or scientist of the first rank........

Urselius (talk) 20:47, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

• uhmmmm....the Romans were depigmentated , almost all roman emperors were blond , blue-eyed, have a look (sources Suetonius,Pliny ,Malalas)

http://aycu24.webshots.com/image/40103/2003824465129417098_rs.jpg

Alexander the Great reputedly had 'two pupils' in one eye, so what?

A number of the Julio-Claudians were fairly pale for Southern Europeans, Nero apparently had blue eyes, though Augustus is described merely as having "bright eyes" which could mean virtually any colour. The descriptions given by Suetonius are all rather unpleasant; Nero's eyes as well as being blue were "rather weak" he was "marked with spots and malodorous... his neck over thick, his belly prominent and his legs spindly." He was also a matricide, fratricide, a megalomaniac and a coward.

I doubt if a majority of Roman emperors have detailed physical descriptions surviving, remember that there was a new one virtually every few months in the 3rd century. Therefore saying that a majority were of pallid colouring would be impossible.

The colouring of Roman emperors is irrelevant to the argument I was making. If excellence of intellect, and human endeavour is connected with depigmentation then those areas with the highest levels of depigmentation should have given the most to the sum of human achievement. Those areas are the ones surrounding the Baltic Sea , and I think it is demonstrable that these regions have not contibuted even a fraction to the sum of civilisation that such areas as those of the Mediterranean littoral, where pigmentation is higher, have done.

Urselius (talk) 16:28, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

• Don't forget the Middle East, which was arguably far more important when it comes to civilization. Funkynusayri (talk) 16:47, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

• Southern europeans mean nothing! the romans (latins) anyway , like many italic tribes came from central europe (urnfield culture) i doubt they were dark and short because they came from the same source of the Celts , i think you are american because only americans have a distorted vision on italy and italians , a lot of people here in italy have light eyes and light hair (the majority of people in the north and center-North) and contrary to the populare belief (only for the americans) we haven't curly hair , dark skin (i'm blond for example)and black blood , stupid americans .

Look the real colors of Augustus :

http://www.waldgirmes.de/roemer/grafik/augustus.jpg

another example of roman racial type , Agrippa:

http://digilander.libero.it/agenziagiornalisti/_borders/mv%20AGRIPPA.jpg

• Why is this important? The fact is that the majority of South Euros are dark haired and dark eyed, light pigmented individuals exist, but exceptions are really irrelevant. Funkynusayri (talk) 17:47, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

• The majority in tunisia or syria but not in Italy!!!! we borders with Austria,Switzerland,France ,and our DNA is Central European (except maybe for some sicilians and calabrians)

think about this!

• Are you saying that the majority of Austrians, Swiss and French are blonde and blue eyed too? I highly doubt that. Funkynusayri (talk) 17:56, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

• Absolutely no , but is obvius that austrians are more depigmentated than egyptians
• Well, of course, but who has ever claimed otherwise? fact is that the vast majority of Italians have dark hair and eyes. This is not due to foreign admixture, but simply due to their Mediterranean location. Funkynusayri (talk) 18:07, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

• Not the vast majority , 40% light eyes - 60 % dark eyes

I hate to disappoint but I'm not an American, I'm British, and I have spent time in Italy (mostly Rome) so I have an idea of what Italians look like. It might interest you that a large-scale survey of the British Isles in the late 1940s showed that the highest incidence of light coloured eyes was found in the Orkney Islands and this was around 50% of the population. In Wales it was slightly less than a quarter, in Southern England slightly less than a third and in Northern England slightly more than a third. The systemisation was threefold: recognising dark, intermediate and light coloured eyes, for England as a whole the breakdown was around a third of the population in each colour class.

The Celtic and Italic (including Latin) language groups are quite closely related, but language is a cultural trait, like a pottery style, and is not a good indication of genetic ethnicity. After all the Irish, Lusitani (Portugal) and Boii (Bohemia - Czech Republic) all spoke Celtic dialects though it is unlikely they were genetically homogenous. In fact the Irish (and Welsh, Scots and English)and peoples of Spain and Portugal have been shown to be genetically related but this was due to immediately post-glacial migrations not more recent historical events.

Your insistence on a highly depigmented status for Italians is only important if you have bought into the bizarre idea that depigmentation is inherently desirable, and that depigmented people have some inherent superiority over those who show a higher degree of pigmentation.

As an inhabitant of a fairly northern part of Europe I do notice that Italy, like Spain, Portugal, Greece etc etc. have a higher incidence of darker hair and eye colouration than my homeland. I also note that the peoples of Southern Europe have more regular features, and are therefore on average more attractive-looking, than those found further north.

Urselius (talk) 17:59, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

• i don't care what you think i have sources and i see italians all the days since i'm one of them , i'm not saying that Italians and the other southern europeans looks like northern europeans , i'm saying that the percentage of light eyes in central italy as a whole is about 30-35% ..this is a study about the bolognese , if you lived in Italy so you should understand the italian language..in Bologna ( central Italy) 37% of the men have blue,gray and gray-green eyes and 8% hazel eyes = 45% of light and light-mixed eyes...

http://carnby.altervista.org/frassetto/note.htm

in the stupid map of Frost ( actually a map from 1965 without any sources) the percentage of light eyes in central italy was "1-19%".....completely wrong !!! --84.223.11.224 (talk) 19:25, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

• uhmm according to your theory how many italians have light eyes , 5% - 10% ? like the algerians or moroccans ? it's strange because all the maps of pigmentation except that of Frost , indicate italy as the more depigmentated country in southern europe . I'm italian , anyway i think english people have more than 50 % of light eyes , i'm sure of this . Oh...light eyes in many cases have nothing to do with Nordic admixture , Italy like France , Austria, Bavaria ,Czech Republic, Croatia is predominantly of alpine race , characterized by brown or reddish hair and mixed eyes (light) , mediteranean race is predominatly concentrated in the south especially in sicily and sardinia. A funny example , Hitler (Austrian) had dark brown hair(almost black) and blue eyes , Nordic? absolutely no ! Alpine ? yes at 110 % ,

http://img.slate.com/media/1/123125/2158911/2159086/2159087/070221_CL_HitlerEX.jpg

Anyway " nordic race" is present too in italy , because in the north 15-25 % of the population have blond hair (Biasutti) and in some central region for example Umbria ,15% of blond hair , this make obvious the fact that light eyes are more than 20 % , they are the double , 40% , i mean light eyes . blue,gray,green,hazel...not blue eyes only. Have a look the map of hair blondism in italy by Renato Biasutti :

http://aycu37.webshots.com/image/38316/2003631590295084685_rs.jpg

the Romans by Coon (Celts and Romans were almost the same people) .Pay attention in the text , The romans never described the Celts tall and blond , only greek historians like Polibius wrote this :

http://www.snpa.nordish.net/chapter-VI4.htm

Amazing, the talk page for an article on Eye color managed to become a battleground for the question of "who has contributed more to civilization". Why the self-deprecating attitudes btw, folks? North and South, all good. I'm certain Funkynusayri is proud of being a MErner though. Power to him! 3rdAlcove (talk) 18:29, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Frost's map may be a bit outdated, but your use of terms such as "Alpine" and "Nordic" races are way far outdated. That is as if considering Europe as a division of a few specific homogeneous groups, which is obviously not real. Also, the rates of blond hair and light eyes have been diminishing over the past few decades, due to recent events and the further development of Transports/Globalization.

Also, I don't see how that map is so different from Frost's. Frost's hair blondism map categorizes the whole Italy as being 1-19% blond. It analyzes almost the whole Italy as a whole, of course that there are differences in specific regions. The map provided (Biasutti's) shows that the maximum percentage is 20%, and the minimum percentage as "below 2,4%", which just confirms Frost's studies. Not to mention that the concept of "light hair" is relative and may differ from study to study. I just see a discrepancy in Frost's map on the southeastern region, though I don't see how that is relevant.

I don't see how the description of Roman emperors is relevant to the discussion as well. A single individual doesn't reflect and entire population. Not to mention that this was dozens of centuries ago, the populations obviously mixed and changed a lot since then. Your attitudes just prove the whole point of this section.--Faitudum (talk) 02:53, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Albinistic Eye Color

Can we please stop taking every opportunity to claim albinos all have red/pink/violet eyes? Even among people with albinism, red eyes are rare (in humans, at least); even severe albinism is usually characterised by blue eyes. It happens, yes, and garners mention, but the simple phrase "albinos have red eyes" or an equivalent is incomplete and misleading.--137.122.202.34 (talk) 21:34, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree, besides "albinos" don't really have red eyes (well, not geneticly anyways), and this should be included but that statement shoud not. Yojimbo501 (talk) 22:03, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Hazel eyes?

The color hazel is a light brown, why is it being used to describe light colored eyes? It is sort of an oxymoron to describe something light as something dark. I don't care if in North America it means they change colors, eye colors don't change.. they are perceived by different people as different colors due to lighting or what a person is wearing. Change the section to "Multi-Colored eyes" or something more fitting. It really is tragic that these irises are being called something they are NOT! This section is entitled "Eye Color" and Hazel would be more fitting for what is known as an "Amber Eye." which is LIGHT BROWN. This is ridiculous, Correct this now. Thank You. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.211.144.198 (talk) 06:18, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I have wondered this as well. When I hear the word hazel I think of hazelnuts or a light brown color in general. Those pictures are "light" colored eyes, someone should fix that section. "Multi-colored" eyes? that doesn't sound like an eye color but I do agree, it would be the most fitting to describe those kinds of eyes. (Sataki (talk) 06:39, 7 May 2008 (UTC)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sataki (talk • contribs) 06:33, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Faitudum (talk • contribs) 23:58, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

AMBER eyes are not LIGHT BROWN. Amber eyes contain yellow pigments, while brown eyes do not (at least not to such a great extent). In a way, amber looks like somebody took the colors yellow, red, green and brown, and mixed them all up. If you compare amber eyes to regular (light) brown ones, the difference is huge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.64.224.190 (talk) 10:42, 2 October 2008

It's a convenience to describe mixed eye color as hazel, and I'm cool with that, although I think we could expand the definition a little bit. My eyes appear predominantly yellow_so where does that fit in?_although they have a base of green and a ring of orangey-amber around the pupil. No brown or even light brown here. I'm fascinated by the posts from cultures without "hazel" as an option. Now I know to describe my eyes as green when I venture south of the border, wrong as that seems to me. My eyes are definitely light, no venturing out without sunglasses. Since we're fascinated by ethnic origin here, I will say that my Polish father has very "conventional" green-brown hazel eyes. Not sure what happened with me!!(UTC)

"I don't care if in North America it means they change colors, eye colors don't change.."

o_O Eye colors DO change! Mine are hazel, and they don't "appear slightly different in different lights". They actually change. How can eyes that go from light yellow green, to rusty orange-brown not be considered "changing" eyes? It's too much of a difference. The color I have is fairly common among white/mixed white populations. It is a mix of green, brown and gold, and hazel is the term commonly used.--Ashantifan1224 (talk) 06:03, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

protection

though you would think this would not be a controversial issue but the isp users are constantly bombarding this page with random unfounded changes just wrecking the article and vandalism is also very high on this article,this page needs a long time semi protect--Wikiscribe (talk) 16:05, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

• I agree. ^8thstar 15:33, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

and the protection is working great--Wikiscribe (talk) 21:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

• i think that the page should be protected permanently as the red hair page , there are too many unregistred users who are butchering this article since months , could someone ask to an administrator ? --GaiusCrastinus (talk) 08:48, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Red Eye in Pictures

What in the world! 'A similar (possibly the same) mechanism'? It even links to the wikipedia article that says that humans don't have a tapetum lucidum! Silly, silly... Red eye in pictures is caused by light reflecting off the blood vessels on the retina. Only similar in that they both involve light. What is actually in the eye is totally different. Source: http://science.howstuffworks.com/question51.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.108.93.159 (talk) 21:43, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Sclerotic color

Could you say something about the sclerotic color? After all it is part of the eye. You could talk about jaundice and other conditions affecting it. You could also talk about how humans have a large visible sclerotic to enhance gestural communication. --Error (talk) 17:25, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi Error, that's an interesting suggestion. Do you have any articles that would help us to add that information? GeneralBelly (talk) 00:50, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree that this related topic should be covered. For example, genetic carriers of Osteogenesis imperfecta (may) have a blue cast to the sclera. --Hordaland (talk) 11:30, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

My eyes are dark yellow, light grey, and dark grey.

Ok so reading this page I was looking for a section about something that would match my eye color. Ok my eyes are dark yellow toward the center of the eyes, then the middle section is light grey, and toward the edges the grey turns pretty dark. I've always said that my eyes are hazel but after reading this I have no idea what color they fit into. Im of African, Israeli, Native American, and North Indian decent if that helps any, oh and the colors never really changes in appearance. I will try to up load a picture if possible.--Jammy2 (talk) 20:45, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

I'd say gray or hazel. But eye color is truly a relative concept, you can just call it whatever you want to. Even if people categorize blue eyes which have a yellow ring around the pupil as hazel, for example, others will certainly consider it blue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Faitudum (talk • contribs) 02:58, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Do people with different colored eyes see the same color?

if i were to show a red rose to a roomful of people, each with different colored eyes, would they all see the same tone and shade of red? 122.162.143.91 (talk) 18:29, 6 August 2008 (UTC)niyam bhushan 6 august 2008

As far as I am aware of, eye color is not related to Daltonism or Color-blindness, so I suppose that all of them would be able to recognize it as red. I don't think that there is a way to find out if every average person sees the same color tones or shades equally, but they are certainly capable of differing them, which is what really matters.--Faitudum (talk) 03:02, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Consistency check?

The section under "Green eyes" says that green eyes are the rarest; in the first sentence under "Genetic determination of eye colour" it says that grey eyes are rarest. I personally have no idea which is correct; could someone more knowledgeable make this consistent?

Thanks.76.99.62.167 (talk) 21:32, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I thought this was removed already. It shows no reference whatsoever and red/violet eyes are obviously rarer than green eyes, even "pure green" eyes. --Faitudum (talk) 23:09, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

This weird color changing

Well, it seems to me that i had those exact green eyes of that picture on the main article of Eye Color. what's so strange to me is that now my eye color's been changing, and i'm beginning to see brown within the center of my eye. Isn't there anyway i can restore the green in my eye without contact lense use? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.82.226.212 (talk) 22:50, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

This is irrelevant to the article. Also, it's all in your head. Your eye color isn't actually changing. Basically, since you've never thought about it before, you never noticed it. Now that the subject's been brought up, you can't *stop* noticing it. This is somewhat related to the phenomenon I describe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paperxcrip (talk • contribs) 19:41, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Light eyes everywhere?

Of course we can notice light eyes (blue or green) in some people in the Asia or Africa or South Europe, but light eyes are much more typical for northern Europe, so I think that it's nonsense write so many countries and regions in the part of blue or green eyes colour. There should be written % of representative people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.25.139.147 (talk) 09:35, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Can a reflex be brighter?

"Because of this, the pupillary reflex is much brighter in the albino, ..."

I don't know what this sentence means. The article Reflex says "A reflex action is involuntary and almost instant movement in response to stimulus...", and that is what I thought reflex means.

How can a reflex be bright (or not)? --Hordaland (talk) 11:41, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

What was the deal with the kaleidoscope section?

it came and went so quickly and is it really a double recesive trait as it said? does anyone know more about it —Preceding unsigned comment added by DAMD (talk • contribs) 08:28, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Heterochromia list

People have added lots of famous people to this list, one at a time. It now reads "...have heterochromia" over and over again. Surely this should be changed into something more sensible?

IceDragon64 (talk) 23:39, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

statistics

what are the statistics of a person having one blue eye and one brown eye?

 send answer to ltoots27@aol.com  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.62.118.21 (talk) 19:12, 4 November 2008 (UTC) 

In need of an expert

Can someone tag the lst line? We shouldn't have guess work in a scientific/medical article. I'm refering to the phrase "(possibly the same)" about red eye effects in cameras and the shine in various animals' eyes.

Thanks --Romulus (talk) 07:38, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

X-Inactivation

In the section on Heterochromia, and indeed in the Heterochromia article itself, there is no mention of X-inactivation, which would seem to be a significant participant in the phenomenon, as I learnt in undergraduate genetics, and is a dominant causative factor in cats, et c. The disproportionality of heterochromatic females to males would seem to make this evident. If no-one objects, I would like to augment the section with a few references to X-inactivation. Gaedheal (talk) 17:46, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Removed confusing "fact" tag

Under the “blue eyes” section, regarding the study asserting a single ancestor, was the following request: "{{Fact| or rather contradiction: there exist number of SNPs :: probability of numerous SNPs mutating in single episode/person/founder?|date=December 2008}}" Just wanted to note - this fact tag requests original research, which is not the function of the encyclopedia. Editors are required to cite sources, not independently argue the conclusions. If contradictory research exists, it should be cited, of course. Typing Monkey - ^{(type to me)} 20:34, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Humans with one brown eye and one blue eye

We once photographed a young man that had very distinctive color variance between his two eyes. One eye was luminescent blue and the other rich colored brown. Wondering what genetic history would cause this individual to have this "rare" combination? 166.129.187.38 (talk) 06:59, 4 December 2008 (UTC)Bob Kiger - Videography Lab

I once saw a lady with two different-colored eyes, and always wondered about that. It must be very rare. Brian Pearson (talk) 14:33, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

I see different colored eyes can be caused a couple of ways, at least. One would be from mosaicism [32] while the other is chimerism [33]. Brian Pearson (talk) 23:43, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Percentages

Judging from some of the comments on the talk page, there may have been details of how many percent each eye colour has in the world population. Does anyone know these details?. I expect it would be overwhelmingly brown. NominalActor (talk) 21:46, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Historical detail under Blue Eyes

Regarding the recent edit by [[Special:Contributions/<86.172.117.233>|<86.172.117.233>]], I wonder whether this level of historical detail regarding the occurrence of blue eyes in America really furthers the article. I think it's interesting! However, I wonder if it really improves the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abigatorbait (talk • contribs) 19:08, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

doubtful percentages

Quote: "Blue eyes have become increasingly rare among U.S. children with only 1 out of every 6, or 10 percent of the United States population having blue eyes." End of Quote. First of all, 1 in 6 is not 10 percent. But I think the claim that any of the two could be true is VERY doubtful. In my daily life (here in Germany), I find that more than the half of people have blue eyes; why should it be any different in White Americans??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.52.159.227 (talk) 19:31, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Because In america in the last 60 years or so there has been substantial immigration of people from countries where blue eyes are the minority eye color, and there has been inter-marridge of brown eyed and blue eyed people because not nearly as many people marry into they're own ethnic group as they did in the first half of the 20th century. Resulting in more brown eyed than blue eyed people.

I would like to contribute a picture of my eye for the amber eye section...

I managed to get a really detailed close up of my eye, and there is quite a bit of a difference between my eye and the existing amber eye picture. I have a lot more of a yellow/orange color to my eye, but i would still consider it amber. Well anyway here you are http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2375/dsc01556ff9.jpg ...take it or leave it. Nickrageful (talk) 10:31, 5 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nickrageful (talk • contribs) 10:29, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

This article needs to be more organized and informative

This article needs to be organized and include more information. I could easily spot errors. I will work on this article on my free time. My interest (28/04/09) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yowiphone (talk • contribs) 07:56, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree. Also this discussion page is a mess as well. There are far too many unnecessary sections, and some of the discussions have been dead for years or have no relevance to the article at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Faitudum (talk • contribs) 18:06, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Green Eyes - Contradiction

The following statement can be seen on the Green Eyes' section of the current revision: "Almost 92% of the population in Iceland has either green or blue eye color.[44]". This information contradicts the map shown at the top of the page (Percentage of light eyes in Europe), since it lists the whole Icelandic territory as a dark blue (50-79%) region. It is not a terrible sin to include both researches, but supporting both of them does take away some of the consistency of the article.--Faitudum (talk) 16:47, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

"Green eyes are the least common eye color; only 2% of the world population has green eyes. "

I have removed this statement, again. Whoever keeps on adding this, please provide source that 2% of the world population has green eyes, and please keep in mind that green eyes are NOT the rarest eye color, Violet eyes are rarer, as explained by this source (used on the article as well) http://www.eyedoctorguide.com/eye_general/eye_color.html Green eyes may be the rarest if compared to "Brown" and "Blue", but the article itself recognizes violet and red eyes as possible eye colors, hence this statement is not good. I kindly ask you to stop adding that green eyes is the rarest eye color, perhaps saying that it is one of the rarest eye colors is more appropriate, though I find that very unnecessary. If you disagree, please discuss here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Faitudum (talk • contribs) 17:41, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Until we have proof, violet eyes do not exist, period.--Ashantifan1224 (talk) 05:59, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Hazel Eyes that change colors when crying.

I have Hazel eyes that are brown with a green color and when I cry they turn bright green, Why is that, Is it just the green coming out of the brown?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.186.144.236 (talk) 01:14, 29 June 2009 (UTC) 

Famous people and eye colour

Has anyone ever compiled a list of famous people and their eye colors? Perhaps this could be a WP category? Danceswithzerglings (talk) 17:45, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Blue eye contradiction

In the article we are told that blue eyes are not a recessive trait, that it is a polygenic trait, yet several sentences later we are told that blue eyes are a recessive trait. Just pointing out this contradiction in hopes that someone who better understands this matter can straighten this out. Dionyseus (talk) 23:42, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

in agreement with what you've said, the last section entitled 'Theories of Mate preference' i think should be deleted, as it is already refuted in the inroduction. Sato au (talk) 12:28, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Albino eyes

Complete Albinism OCA1a - the eyes are mainly blue, but lacking melanin completely

Sorry, but human albino eyes ara blue not pink, if melanin is lacking comletely. --Kersti Nebelsiek (talk) 09:04, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Theories of mate preference

"One study has given a hypothesis that blue eyed men prefer blue eyed women due to the trait's recessive inheritance.[65] Under this theory, because blue eyed couples are likely to produce blue eyed offspring, males are more confident in the child's paternity."

I can't read the full article. Does it really say that? I don't really have bright blue eyes like the ones in the picture, more grey/green, but I have no particular preference for women with blue eyes, practically prefer women with brown eyes but it doesn't really matter. Is that study even accurate or am I just a freak?--Deitrohuat (talk) 21:38, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

It says much the same thing again here. I don't mind women with blue eyes but I definitely wouldn't say I actively prefer them, despite having close to blue eyes myself. This article says that somehow, I should prefer them. What's wrong?--Deitrohuat (talk) 21:45, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

I have blue eyes (they look grey in some light) and I don't care about eye color either. For some reason it's something I tend to fail to notice about people; I had an ex-girlfriend once who got mad at me because I didn't know what color her eyes are. This is purely anecdotal of course, but it seems strange that this article runs counter to the preferences of men who are editing the Wikipedia article on eye color. Maybe we shouldn't use its findings in the article. Gary (talk) 06:15, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Effect of eye color on vision

I have read that the color of your eyes may affect your vision. For example, lighter colored eyes are supposed to have better vision in dark places, while darker eyes are supposed to be more tolerant of extremely bright light. Is there any truth to this, or is it just an urban legen? I saw no reference in the article to this, except that some eye colors are more susceptible to some diseases.

That's because there is absolutely no truth that your eye colour has any effect on your visual acuity. It's an old wives' tale —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.33.122.159 (talk) 19:05, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Plagiarism

There are quite a few striking similarities in the text of http://www.brighthub.com/science/genetics/articles/16272.aspx and this article. Also, the article has taken photos directly from the brighthub.com article as well. I recommend an "audit" of this article.

That article is published 23/6/2009. Given that these images here have been on the article for years, I'd rather say that that article took them from here, not vice versa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.192.104.10 (talk) 10:15, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

IP is correct, those images have been here for ages, they are the ones who stole content.--Faitudum (talk) 03:25, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Hazel

Do you think maybe we should have another "hazel" picture? I mean, it says in the article that the definition of "hazel" is varied, so it might be nice to have a demonstration of this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.33.174.133 (talk) 21:33, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Animal eyes

Shouldn't this article be called "Human eye colour"? Since it doesn't mention animals once. And how about we have some information about animal eye colour too in either this or a different article? -OOPSIE- (talk) 08:32, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Green and grey eyes

It says in the article that green is the least common eye color. I'll assume it's referring to "common" eye colors, i.e. not red or purple, but I've seen a lot more green-eyed people than grey-eyed people. This claim is not sourced, so would it be okay if I changed it to saying that grey is less common? 74.33.174.133 (talk) 01:54, 20 August 2009 (UTC)