Talk:Yuan (currency)

Merge with Ren Min Bi

Hey, this shoudl probably be merged with the OTHER page on chinese currency: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren_min_bi

== Kuai and yuan == you suck

In some parts of China, it (yuan) is colloquially known as the kuai.

I disagree with the above statement in the article. Yuan is a unit name, kuai is a counter. When people say yi kuai 一塊, they are only abbreviating from yi kuai qian 一塊錢. So if you equate "one dollar" with "one piece of coin", then you cannot say dollar and piece are the same by dropping the word coin after the abbreviation. Kowloonese 02:51, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Is the Second Yuan the Gold Yuan?

I am sure that, in November 1935 the Chinese government made what you called as the first yuan fiat money and is called fabi (legal currency) or Chinese National Currency Yuan (CNC$). The Gold Yuan of 1948 is actually used to replace this, not the silver yuan.Samuel Curtis 08:39, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Silver yuan note of 1949 replaced gold yuan at the rate of 1 silver yuan = 500 million gold yuan. I believe what happened in 1935 did not involve any "exchange rate" like the gold yuan or silver yuan. --Chochopk 09:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

• Silver yuan (pre-1935) are converted to CNC$ at par, but CNC$, before 1937, was pegged to GBP and USD. In any rate, CNC$ and the silver dollar (pre-1935) are considered different currencies and should not be put under the same heading.Samuel Curtis 15:51, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree

I agree with Kowloonese. yuan is the noun, kuai is the measure word. Also the article states that 1 yuan can be divided into 10 jiao and 1 jiao into 10 fen. This is not correct. There is no smaller denomination that 1 jiao. Once again I believe the author is confusing measure words with nouns. Jiao is the noun and fen is the measure word. Further more the picture provided showing the yuan currency is correct but out of date. I live in guangzhou and haven't seen that 100 yuan note EVER, with the exception of at a local shopping area where it can be purchased as a collectors item. I believe it's out of print. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BrianHut (talk • contribs) 07:18, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I have to disagree. I don't think there is no distinction among a unit name, a counter, or a measure word. Yuan (圓/元), jiao (角), fen (分), and kuai (塊) are all units, or counter. What do you mean there is no smaller denomination than 1 jiao? You mean fen is not used in cash payment? That may be true, but fen may be still the legal smallest unit in mainland China. If that's the case, you need to look at the interest from saving account and see to what digit is it rounded to. Regarding the picture, it's nothing a proper caption cannot fix. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 10:58, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation

I was wondering how it would be pronounced in English speaking countries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.101.148.188 (talk) 03:05, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree. How is 'yuan' closer in pronunciation to 'yen'? By the way, I'm a native speaker of mandarin chinese. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.245.115.4 (talk) 05:44, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Phonetic Transcription and Sound File needed

Please someone insert an IPA-Transcription and, if possible, a sound file for original chinese pronunciation! --84.112.150.182 (talk) 12:55, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Well here's the Chinese pronunciation (from Wiktionary:yuán): . Someone else will have to figure out how to integrate it into the article. Oh, and in English, it is either /ˌjuːˈɑn/ or /ˈjuːən/, according to the Wiktionary article. — trlkly 00:37, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

7 mace and 2 candareens

I guess this is what you would call a chinese dragon dollar. Lots of the lighter version of this stuff is showing up in the flea markets around here, and maybe some info about them would make sense if added here. According to one websource there are at least 300 different varieties of the underweight dollar sized reputedly chinese seemingly silver coins. The 10 Marshals Series, and the Individual Emperors of at least several Different dynasties which seem to each also have a series, the 4 Great Beauties of Ancient China series, and the Sang Huang Wudi series, all or most of which could be commemoratives ? However at least one of these series seems to be denominated in cash, and some others are actually marked 1 yuan. Also there are forgeries of actual yuan and dragon dollars, and restrikes, (which I guess is that coin in the correct metal content but not stuck at the date specied ?). I have found many here that weigh 18-22 grammes v. the about 27 grammes for the 7 mace and 2 candareens originals. I would be willing to help with this, but if I do it myself I may make a mess of it.John5Russell3Finley 17:42, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Peso?

I have been trying to find a source which agrees with the assertion here that the Mexican Peso was used as the standard of value for the Yuan, but other than the statement here, in this article, I can find no references to support this viewpoint. Could others help me to confirm this fact, if fact it is, or to find a proper refutation? -- Jolliette Alice Bessette, -- 23:20, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

For a reference that you can cite, try looking for books on Chinese economic history at the nearest university library. The term "yuan" referred to the Mexican (originally, Spanish) dollar (silver peso). The British East India Company traded to Canton regularly in the 18th century and it paid for its purchases at Canton (the only Chinese port open to foreign trade after 1757) with Spanish Carolus dollars. By 1840 the dollar (peso) had become the standard coin in the Canton trade and was relatively common in China south of the Yangtze.Sivasova (talk) 15:09, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:ChinaYaun shrp frontBack 4256x1914.gif

Image:ChinaYaun shrp frontBack 4256x1914.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:31, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Chinese Yuan & Renminbi

I think the articles of the Chinese yuan and Renminbi should be combined into one single article. Renminbi, the formal name for the mainland Chinese currency, is known too frequently in the rest of the world as "Chinese yuan". Thus, in effect, despite some necessary historical clarifications, they essentially mean the same and are interchangeable these days. The ancient (meaning pre-1949) currencies, as well as other Greater China currencies such as H.K. dollar, Macanese pataca, or N.T. dollar should only be briefly mentioned and have their own articles in detail. I hope this should make sense to everyone. --Heilme (talk) 20:18, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. This IS the article for ancient yuan, with modern currencies referred to as "yuan" being briefly mentioned with their own detailed articles. A see also tag exists at the top of the page to mitigate any confusion. To merge in such a way can violate NPOV, as well. Butterfly0fdoom (talk) 07:58, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

The status quo isn't perfect but it works for the time being. The renminbi is distinct in terms of nomenclature from the earlier yuan and from the Taiwanese currencies. I certainly don't see any need to drag in the pataca and HK dollar
Dove1950 (talk) 21:01, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Pardon me, but the way I look at it is that the "Chinese yuan" is simply a currency that is used in China since the late 19th century (it was another system - "tael", "copper coins - wen" before then). Looking at the articles for other "old" currencies such as the French franc, Pound Sterling, and United States dollar - which have an extensive complex history on their own such as multiple independent currencies issued under the same name - I cannot help but try to learn from them and have one united article for the "Chinese yuan". To be precise, in addition to merging the Renminbi article into this article (instead of the other way round), I also would like to retain and even expand on the complex history of the yuan from its birth in the late 19th century to the yuan last issued by the Nationalists KMT in 1949 (after which their issuance is called the NT$ - separate article), and then followed by the history of RMB until now. What do you think? Heilme (talk) 21:14, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

However, NTD and RMB are both referred to its users as "Yuan". Leave the RMB article separate and expand on this article. It's just as effective, if not moreso. Merging RMB into this article violated NPOV (at least from my perspective). The RMB is issued as the RMB, not the Yuan, therefore should not be merged into the Yuan article. Butterfly0fdoom (talk) 16:28, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I just want to point out that RMB means "people's currency", while yuan is a generic currency unit in the modern Chinese language. I haven't been editing for a while because of real life. Last I know, currency articles are named "<national adjective> <unit>". And pound sterling, given its unique history (or the will of the editors), is an exception. I somewhat feel that Renminbi qualifies for an exception as well. Unlike the Yugoslav dinar in 1990s, Renminbi is "designated" a distinct currency by a new regime. Renminbi itself has gone through a redenomination process in 1955. The currencies before and after 1955 are both Renminbi. And what happaned between 1911 and 1949 is just too chaotic and too much to fit in one article if merged. 4 national banks could issue notes, not to mentioned regional banks and foreign banks. And there's the hyperinflational period between 1945 and 1949. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 00:08, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm. As for the concern that it will get chaotic if the articles are merged in full, I have to agree. There's a lot of "yuans" from 1911-1949. But, I think they can be mentioned in separate articles instead of in detail. For instance, the United States dollar also have a similar history where it was issued by multiple issuers (by each state or banks) and even multiple kinds of Federal Reserve notes. The article does get a little long, but in the end successfully summarize its chaotic history in my opinion. I am looking similar lines into this. I am interested in Butterflyofdoom's suggestion where the articles are not merged, but this Chinese yuan article is expanded. As a first step, there are some sections in the Chinese currency article that can be lifted and adapted here. Heilme (talk) 18:54, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

What about turning "Chinese yuan" into a disambig page, that points to something like "Chinese yuan (Imperial - 1948)", "Chinese gold yuan" (1948-49), "Chinese silver yuan" (1949), Renminbi, Japanese occupational yuan, etc? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 13:14, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

That's also another good idea, except that the Yuan page is already a disambig. Now, I do not know how many people confuse Yuan with Chinese yuan but it's possible that there are some who could be directed to a disambig page twice from Yuan then to Chinese yuan. Otherwise, we can go ahead as planned. As of now, I am trying to make a "first-attempt" revised Chinese yuan (see my Talk page) article. It's not yet done, so I'll let you know if it's close to finish. Since I do not have many of these banknotes myself, I plan to borrow images from Ron Wise website (I am pretty sure you're familiar) - only his own images, not the donated ones. Do you have images of Chinese yuan banknote issued under Imperial Qing that we can use in Wiki? You can remove the serial if you like. I am. Thanks. Heilme (talk) 18:03, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I still say that the page is fine in its current form. Why try to fix what isn't broken? My suggestion was to maintain the current page and expand information where needed. If the article gets too large, then branch off into sub-articles and have a small bit of general information for each currency on this page. Butterfly0fdoom (talk) 23:04, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, that is what I'm trying to do. The only concern from Chochopk is that there are a lot of yuans issued by central banks, national banks, foreign banks, and occupational governments that there would be a possible concern of overcrowding/messy. But I am trying my best to keep it comprehensive but not overcrowded. Heilme (talk) 21:43, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok. My comments were mostly just because your initial statement and your recent statement are different in the end result that they hope to achieve. Butterfly0fdoom (talk) 17:58, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

currency peg controversy

why is there no mention, nor a link, for the current economic "War" over the yuan. take whatever side you want its still a controversy.Lihaas (talk) 06:56, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

I agree, this is a major internationally covered issue. for it not to be mentioned is quite strange? 209.121.225.250 (talk) 05:22, 22 April 2010 (UTC)