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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Fyodor7 (talk | contribs) at 18:26, 23 June 2010 (→‎Ahatallah: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

good work

Good work in the cleanup of Marthoma church article

Tinucherian (talk) 04:50, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I do agree removing Anglican churches tag from Marthoma Church page , but what about Syriac Christianity ???

Tinucherian (talk) 04:19, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See below also ! User_talk:Garzo#Marthoma_church_is_Not_an_Anglican_Church_.21.21.21

12:01, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Mathews Mar Athanasius Metropolitan

Thank you for contacting me. I was about to revert my edit before checking the diffs. As far as I can see, all instances of "passed away" that I changed to "died" are written in historical sections documenting a series of events in a non-culture-specific way. These should use the term "died". If we were to use point-of-view terms in each article according to what culture it belonged to, it would defy our policy of WP:NPOV and our aim to write as objectively as possible. If I had changed any instances describing the concept of death in the religion, I would revert them. Perhaps you could introduce a sentence explaining death in this religion (the term used, how it is seen, &c.). If you think I'm wrong, please WP:Be bold and revert my edit, or contact me again. --Oldak Quill 16:54, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:WikiProject Indian Christianity

Hi N M Mathew ,

A new Wikiproject was started for Indian Christianity related articles. The goal of this WikiProject is to improve the quality and quantity of information about Indian Christianity available on Wikipedia. Your contributions are highly welcome . Please let others know who might also be interested.
Thanks
Tinucherian (talk) 11:51, 12 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Hello, Neduvelilmathew , We have noticed your contributions to articles related to Indian Christianity. We thought you might also be interested in joining our WikiProject on Indian Christianity Articles on Wikipedia. We welcome you to join this project! Happy Editing!

-Tinucherian (talk) 18:43, 17 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
An Useful guide for you :-

Main Project Pages
How to Join the Project ?
Templates for the project
  • The following templates can be used on pages in Wikipedia to associate them with the Indian Christianity WikiProject.

Main templates

  • {{portal|Christianity}} — Template to add to MAIN pages of all Christianity-related articles
  • {{ChristianityWikiProject|indian-work-group=yes}} : Template to add to TALK pages of all INDIAN Christianity-related articles
  • {{User WikiProject IndianChristianity}} — Userbox for members to advertise our Indian Christainity Wiki project!
    This user is a participant in
    WikiProject
    Christianity in India    .
  • [[Category:Indian Christianity]] Category tag to Indian Christainity related articles.
  • {{subst:Welcome2WP-IC}} Invitation to Interested Users.

Stub templates


What Should I do ??
  • These are lots of things you can do to improve the quality of Wikipedia coverage of Indian Christianity and this project
    • Help and contribute to Indian Christanity related Articles
    • Look over the recent changes list for recent improvements to articles, other changes, and vandalism.
    • Attract attention from editors interested in Christianity and Christianity-related topics.
    • Place the WPChristianity banner on the head of Talk Pages of relavent articles.
    • Improve the WPChristianity banner that goes at the head of Talk Pages to handle tags for unreferenced, copyedit needed, cleanup needed, expansion needed, and POV warning.
    • Adopted Topic, where a suite of topically related articles are targeted for improvement until there's a consensus to move on to a new topic. (see here).
    • Article Review, for articles nominated by members for wider review. In this case the new ones go at the top and sink as new ones are added. (see here)
    • Add more reward templates (barnstars), and have people in the task force actually watching logs and rewarding key contributors.
    • Give help on Open tasks
    • Contribute to Portal:Indian Christianity
Thank you !

Award for you

Star of The Indian Christianity Articles
Dear Neduvelilmathew (talk · contribs) ,Thank you for your conributions to Indian christanity related artciles Tinucherian (talk) 17:02, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Marthoma Church

Hope you have seen some of the changes I have done to marthoma church page recently. Also I have added more info for Metropolithas from Mar Thoma I with things I know. May be you can expand these articles also ....Otherwise they may be removed on questions of verifibility and being stub articles

Thanks Tinucherian (talk) 03:22, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thomas Mar Athanasius‎

Hi N M Mathew , I have noticed your changes http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thomas_Mar_Athanasius&diff=prev&oldid=194587541 on Thomas Mar Athanasius‎ from Metropolitans of the Malankara Mar Thoma Syrian Church to Metropolitans of the Malankara Church . Do you think it is right to claim so , when there are more claims to Malankara throne , starting from Mathews Mar Athanasius Metropolitan era? It will be technically not right , when every episcopal church in Malankara have a right to Holy Apostolic Throne of St. Thomas ? - Tinucherian (talk) 05:05, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Tinu Cherian, The names Malankara Mar Thoma Church and Malankara Mar Thoma Syrian Church were adopted only after 1900. So the use of Mar Thoma Church before that time is not correct. Mathews Mar Athanasius was accepted by the Church and by the Government as Malankara Metropolitan of the Malankara Church. So his successor Thomas Mar Athanasius was Malankara Metropolitan. The court verdict of the litigation (1879-1889), was only about the Church properties, and it mentioned that the consecration, the authority of Thomas Mar Athanasius as Metropolitan and the properties of the individual parishes were not under consideration.(ref:Verdict Para 19 and 20.) So Thomas Mar Athanasius and successors can be considered as Malankara Metropolitans. (Ref; Canons Of the Malankara Church (1857) No.2 page 7-10). Also see the “History of the Name” in the article “Mar Thoma Church.” The Governement declaration of the head of the church was only to decide to whom the interest of a Deposit (known as Vattipanom) was to be given. Majority of the Malankara Metropolitans were not given any Royal proclamation. As per Canon, all successors of Mar Thoma I, of the ancient Malankara Church have a claim to be Malankara Metropolitan. All episcopal churches and Churches under foreign rule will not come uder this category.Neduvelilmathew (talk) 06:35, 28 February 2008 (UTC)(talk)[reply]

Portal:Indian Christianity Launched

We are happy to announce the launch of Portal:Indian Christianity by Wikipedia:WikiProject Indian Christianity , a work force of Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity and Wikipedia:WikiProject India. Please share your comments and suggestions. - Tinucherian (talk) 17:08, 2 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Page will be updated soon

Please dont put writings as 'Page will be updated soon' in the articles. All pages in Wikipedia as subject to updation and changes. Hope you understood what I am suggesting. Otherwise some admin will say the same thing to you. - Tinucherian (talk) 10:04, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Portal:Indian Christianity Launched

Thanks I shall share your comments & suggestions. Neduvelilmathew (talk) 02:03, 8 March 2008 (UTC) Template:Tinucherian:talkback[reply]

Malankara Church

Have a look at my article Malankara Church. It also featured on Wiki Main page this month as DYK .... See Talk:Malankara Church - Tinucherian (talk) 09:55, 28 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Indian Christianity

Hello,

Could you chime in at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indian Christianity? There is some debate going on regarding the name of the portal, project and the template & icon/flag logo. Thanks.Brian0324 (talk) 20:43, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Changes to Indian Christianity Wikiproject/workgroup

Upon discussion and consensus ( see here) , The following changes and decisions were taken w.r.t to Indian Christianity workgroup :-

  • The scope of workgroup will be limited to Indian region only for now.
  • The workgroup will be renamed to Christianity in India instead of Indian Christianity.
  • The changes will effect the project pages, Portal and the templates.
  • The templetes will be replaced by a Indian map instead of Tricolor flag picture.

This is FYI - Tinucherian (talk) 04:42, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Christianity

Hello Neduvelilmathew!

You are cordially invited to participate in WikiProject Christianity

The goal of WikiProject Christianity is to improve the quality and quantity of information about Christianity available on Wikipedia. WP:X as a group does not prefer any particular tradition or denominination of Christianity, but prefers that all Christian traditions are fairly and accurately represented.

You are receiving this invitation because you are a member of one of the related Christianity Projects and I thought that you might be interested in this project also - Tinucherian (talk) 06:31, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Tinu,

Thanks for the invitation. I am delighted. I shall try my best.Neduvelilmathew (talk) 05:53, 29 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please add your name to the members' page - Tinucherian (talk) 05:57, 29 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Malankara Metropolitan

Dear Mathew ,

I read your reply.You said that Mar Athanasios was not the Malankara Metropolitan.But in fact he was.In 1846 Mar Dionysious IV (Malankara Metroplitan),gave away his power and position to Yuyakkim Mar Koorilose,a Metropolitan from Antioch.Thus he became the temporary Malankara Metropolitan.Mar Athanasios filed a case against him.In 1848,the Kollam Panchayath(a commitee made by the king to settle the case) declared that Mathews Mar Athanasios was the real Malankara Metropolitan,and in 1852 July 28,The Royal Proclamation agreed to the decision of the Panchayath and again declared that Athanasios was the real Malankara Metropolitan Arun V Roy (talk) 06:29, 3 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Dear Arun Roy,

“Metropolitan of the Syrian Christians”. This was what was written in the royal proclamation. We do not know why the government did not use the phrase “Malankara Metrapolitan”. Details of this are given in Malankara Marthoma Sabha Charitram Volume II, Pages 53-58, 77-78. Neduvelilmathew (talk) 05:27, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Titusji

Hi, you recently created the article Titusji. A quick google search shows to me that the subject is notable enough and that reliable references for it should exist. However, I think the article could use some work. I've left some tags on the article; in addition, is "Titusji" a first name - if so, does he have a last name? I think a little more context and perhaps some references would be helpful to ensure that the article is not deleted. Thanks for contributing, CrazyChemGuy (talk) 20:40, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

After entering the introduction to this article, instead of clicking the preview, I clicked the save page. And so the edit conflicts arose. Before finishing the editing I noticed the error and so I am making the necessary changes.Neduvelilmathew (talk) 21:16, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox Marthoma Bishop

I saw that you have created {{Infobox Marthoma Bishop}} which is almost similar to the old one {{Infobox Bishop}}. Since it is redundant to the older one, it is likely that it may be nominated for deletion by someone.. Anyways let us see -- Tinu Cherian - 04:18, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mar Thoma Church

Please do not keep on trying to remove the Syriac Christianity infobox from Mar Thoma Church (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs). We have had a discussion about it, and you were unable to show that the church does not stand in this tradition. I have repeatedly pointed out that the liturgy, ceremonial, clothing, calendar and sacred language of church is that of the Syriac churches, both East and West. The near total use of Malayalam in the church today does not diminish this fact. Thank you. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 15:53, 26 July 2008 (UTC) [reply]

Dear Grazol Gareth.
This article is about my church, The Mar Thoma Church, and not about any other church. We know about our church, its history and traditions better than anybody else. Both your additions are unnecessary, unwanted and unwarranted. Hope you will not try to add these again and again. Thanks.Neduvelilmathew (talk) 17:45, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It is not possible to win your argument by suggesting you own 'secret knowledge' or some other inside knowledge; the issue is about the well-known history of the Mar Thoma Church, about which I am supported by every source written about the church. You have never offered an argument to support your claims, so how can you be expected to be taken seriously? Your revert of me has been reverted again by another user, so already you are running against consensus. I have repeated my detailed argument on the article's talk page. If you actually have an argument, which I believe you do not, then add it to that talk page for consideration. Thank you. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 18:39, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What is the purpose of including this unnecessary, unwanted and unwarranted thing into this article? If I am running against consensus, let it be there. At least you will be happy.Neduvelilmathew (talk) 18:53, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is not about my happiness. You have never, ever, given any reason why it is 'unnecessary, unwanted and unwarranted'. Please give an academic argument rather than empty rhetoric in the future. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 19:02, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Neduvelilmathew, do you realize you are arguing time and time again with scholars of Syriac, Church history, theology, and Tradition? You keep returning academic fact with rhetoric and nonsense. Mr. Hughes is an Anglican priest and Syriac scholar at Oxford. Where have you studied and what makes the books you site worth anything? We all understand YOU wrote the books you keep citing, the question is - why should we believe your statements when they go against history, tradition, language, verifiable fact, and consensus? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.47.219.68 (talk) 07:48, 17 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ur artice on Throne of St.Thomas is wrong

It is history that St.Thomas didnot ordain a bishop in India. Only the view of Orthodox and jacobite church is correct, with regard to this throne. Refer to the history of Catholicate of East. See also the writings of Catholicos Bar Ebria of the 13th century AD. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.196.144.208 (talk) 17:16, 6 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Who is Catholicos Bar Ebria of the 13th century AD? Is he from Malankara? Malankara Church belongs to the Malankara people. Outsiders can write whatever they want. For me believing them is difficult. Hope you will not try to write the history of other countries and churches and tell them to believe it.Neduvelilmathew (talk) 08:47, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Mathew, U are talking like Jesus was from Malankara. Dont forget that Mathew Athanasius also got ordination from Antioch. Is Antioch in Malankara?. Christianity is not confined to a particular place or region. Its catholic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexyalex (talk • contribs) 07:45, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Malankarans

I guess you are saying that the Indian (Malankara) Orthodox Church is not the Malankara Church. Is that correct? If so, should the latter then be included in Saint Thomas Christian tradition? Student7 (talk) 15:22, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Can't seem to get Anthony on Stilts attention as I had hoped for History of the Saint Thomas Christians. Do you have a nominee church article for a baseline for this history that I could pick up and drop in here? Looking to put this all in one spot so we can all refine one instead of trying to keep seven histories all up to date and (sometimes) fight wars with recalcitrant newbies who disagree. Would help focus our efforts. Can you help? Thanks. Student7 (talk) 23:55, 3 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Your letter dated 6 April, 2009. Only today I saw that letter. So I shall answer that first. I don’t remember writing like that! Indian (Malankara) Orthodox Church is part of the Malankara Church. I have no doubt about it. Some of those Church leaders are my friends also. Many of them provided me help in writing my books. There are a few other Churches also that are really part of the Malankara Church. All these Churches try to keep the Saint Thomas Christian traditions. If you find anywhere it is wrongly mentioned, please contact me or you may correct it.

Then about your search for a nominee Church article, for a base line for the History of the Saint Thomas Christians. Your interest is to put all the seven in one spot. There are lots of books on this history. But if you are adding one more in Wikipedia and making it eight, then you will have to fight wars with eight recalcitrant newbies who disagree. If you ask my advice I would recommend not to attempt and waste your valuable time. I can’t think of it, because I have read a number of books on this topic. I have done some research on the History of Malankara Church, but for writing actual facts in my books, I had to rely on excavations, books written during that period of time, documents and other relevant sources. My books are in Malayalam, (my mother tongue and the language of the St.Thomas Christians.Neduvelilmathew (talk) 03:36, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your note. I went on to change five church articles. Two left. Two major church articles remaining. (You are saying eight churches, which means there are three left). I am not ready yet to address the other two (three?). I am away from my regular editing station and won't be back until next Tuesday. Anyway, there is now one history article for those five churches for the time period 54 AD (and before) to the Coonan Cross incident and beyond, though that later material may have to be extracted. Not necessarily applicable to both Catholic churches. So far, so good. No complaints yet. I will, of course, keep your email to better understand your remarks when I have time to examine them in detail. Student7 (talk) 16:49, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your email. I looked at your edit and was impressed by the documentation of the embassy from India. I can't argue with facts! I don't know about the Augustan temple, but it's not worth arguing over. The embassy winding up as the Three Wise Men is another matter, but I think it is worded okay - "Keralans believe..." You have impressive credentials. No wonder the Mar Thoma Church article is in such good shape!  :) Maybe I am the "second oldest Wikipedian"? (b 1936  :).
Okay to write future contents of emails like this on the article page. It might be instructive to other editors. Unless you want to tell me that I am an idiot! Then I would appreciate the information by private email!  :) 21:31, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
I was interested in getting approval to merge the History of the Saint Thomas Christians into the Saint Thomas Christian tradition. I have an idea on how to do that and meet the goals of all parties. I need to make the actual move myself! It will be a credible move, however. No switches in text!  :) I wanted to wait until everybody is ready so they won't feel forced to make a lot of changes all at once. Student7 (talk) 20:54, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dear student 7, I have no comments Neduvelilmathew (talk) 01:22, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you were right about the "recalcitrant." Newbies they are not, alas. They want to destroy the merged history which (since it was constructed by me, a newbie to Karalan history) may have some naive stuff in it, but was neutral and (I think) contained more information than theirs. But that is their choice.
Would you mind taking a stand, if called upon, if and when they try to destroy the newly merged article? Just one note might help and I don't need it yet. I will just need more than just me which it is so far. Thanks. Student7 (talk) 14:26, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your answer. I agree about the stray comments on Roman History having nothing to do with the St. Thomas Christians. Someone apparently wanted to "put the timeline into perspective" and got carried away. I left this and other matters that seemed irrelevant out of my combined history. Using exact days for Thomas's arrival seemed nonsensical. I've kept some of them but questioned them either in imbedded comments or placing "fact" tags.
I don't know about the language problems and would have to use your guidance in these matters.
I'm hoping to avoid all-out-war with this group right now. Don't know whether I will succeed. I merged a bunch of their history, hopefully skipping some of the nonsence, but probably not all. History after the Portuguese seems pretty straigtforward.
At some point in time, we will probably wind up in mediation where we may educate a group of our fellow editors under admin guidance. In the meantime, I was hoping, with your help, to come up with a valid combined history to substitute. I know what you mean about "one more reference," but WP:RELY does matter, particularly with the admin listening in.
I think we are trying to accomplish the same thing. You were missing support in the past. I think I can help with that. While I am new to St. Thomas history, I have been editing awhile. Also, with constant pouring over six histories, I have had a certain amount of exposure to church history as well. Student7 (talk) 13:49, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the prompt reply. I am making a few corrections in the article Saint Thomas Christian Traditions. If there is any objection please consult, I shall revert it.Neduvelilmathew (talk) 16:03, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I had hoped to benefit from your editing on History of the Saint Thomas Christians which is the merged article from five churches plus Saint Thomas Christian tradition. It does only represent the history through Coonan Cross, however, so a limited history, but applicable to all churches. Feel free, of course, to edit whatever you like! The problem with St T..Traditions is that is only applicable to the one church that had the entire history. Also, as an article incorporating other material besides history, it can't be referenced from the other churches as a "history-only" article. Student7 (talk) 22:25, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I followed you through on several of your changes on "precise" dates in ancient history. Some of the other dates I did not have, not considering them important. I suppose the exact treaty of the division between Spain and Portugal should be put in there, but India "just happened" to be east of the line and wasn't specifically mentioned. I had omitted material and events external to Kerala except da Gama's arrival which seemed significant. Anyway...Student7 (talk) 22:41, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Another newbie is taking a crack at common sense. Are you following the discussion at Talk:Syrian_Malabar_Nasrani#POV. He has some interesting ideas. Could use your support. If we collect enough of these folks over the years, we may prevail!  :) Student7 (talk) 13:37, 21 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This newbie has edited not only Syrian Christian Nazrani, but also a number of other articles on Malankara Churches, highlighting his views. He does not accept original documents as reliable. His views are not neutral. He wants others to believe what he says.Neduvelilmathew (talk) 16:14, 21 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oops! Thanks! (He does give lip service to WP:RELY sources. Maybe he is persuadable? Right now he may not want to bite off as much as I want anyway, so maybe no problem!).Student7 (talk) 18:16, 22 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. That is a great relief.Neduvelilmathew (talk) 04:51, 23 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the heads up. I've been away from Wikipedia for a week. I've tried to calm them down. As you've said before, some of the best references may not be online nor in English, but perhaps we can agree on using some of them rather than agreeing on actual statements from them. You will have to disclose those which you have authored if you recommend them! Somehow, I don't think they will make it to the final cut because of that even if they are better than others. But perhaps there are others as well. It might be nice if there were a few online and in English as well. They may not be the most comprehensive nor document the most important facts. We have several good editors that may be persuadable. I've seen larger tasks done by fewer dedicated editors. Student7 (talk) 00:59, 22 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mar Thoma Church

I was trying to understand your edit [1] to the article Mar Thoma Church. I have no opinion on it per se one way or the other. I had thought that the original editor was trying to say that the wooden statue was one of St. Thomas. While St. Thomas lived in the 1st century, it is not unusual to have statues of long-dead saints even nowdays, right? So I did not understand the reason for the revert, even though I hold no opinion on whether it is important to the article or not. Can you help me understand that edit? Thanks. Student7 (talk) 01:28, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In the original the name of the saint was not given but user 80.176.227.160 had added the name St. Thomas the Apostle. That was the one reverted. I am not sure why the name of an Apostle was given by 80.176.227.160.
It is the practice of St. Thomas Christians to call their head of Church, Malankara Mooppen (Leader) and bishops of other churches Muthappen (old father). St. Thomas is much respected and they call him Thoma Sleeha. (Apostle Thomas).
The statue was that of a bishop named Mar Baselios Yeldho (This is the name used by Antioch in one of their records, but I have seen two other slightly different versions for this name) from Karakosh near Mosul in Iraq who arrived in Kerala on September 14, 1685 and died after 13 days. His statue was called “statue of Muthappan”. This was the one used at Maramon Church and not that of Apostle St. Thomas. So it was reverted.
Removal of this statue had a great impact during reformation and so it is included in this article. Neduvelilmathew (talk) 16:49, 2 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I had hoped that the editor had made changes to File:Nasrani Evolution.jpg "Relationship of the Nasrani groups" that would satisfy your criticism. I discovered this wasn't so after encountering your deletion in the article Mar Thoma Church. I have been busily reverting deletions to this file from other area churches for the past several days!
As an outsider, I found that this chart (or one like it) helped to explain the division of churches in the Karala area. Without it, an outsider is lost. Totally lost.
Is there anything that can be done to rescue this material? An editor has suggested replacing the chart with one that is editable by all of us. Would this help?
Us folks who support truth in history need to stick together here! A little bit harder when each of us has a different version of the truth! A lot easier for the people who don't really care!  :) Student7 (talk) 19:21, 30 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Student 7.

Thanks for all your suggestions. I don’t have much free time these days and so the delay. It is true to say that we need to find the truth and then support it. So let me talk about the File:Nasrani Evolution.jpg.

A common history.

The following names are often used in Wikipedia:- Marthoma Nasrani, Saint Thomas Christians (or Marthoma Christians), Syrian Malabar Nasrani, Syrian Malabar Christians, Syrian Christians of Kerala, Knanaya.

Are all these the names of the same group of people? If they are, then we can say that they have a common history. If they are the same group, why are they addressed differently? The File:Nasrani Evolution.jpg, is prepared basing on the assumption that all these are the same group or they evolved from the same origin.

If they are of different groups, their origins are different and then they cannot have a common history. In fact they are not the same group.Hope I need not explain this.

File:Nasrani Evolution.jpg seems to me as a forceful entry into the history of Mar Thoma Church by a person or persons of another Church. But do the members of one Church/religion have the authority to enter an article with their version of history and teachings and include them in the articles of another church/religion? I know that if there is a disagreement on any point, before editing that page they are expected to use the talk pages. From my point of view, this kind of intrusion is one of the reasons for the division of Churches in the Kerala area.

If the file is not about their churches and if someone wants to enter their Files into some other Church history, let them first use the talk pages. Otherwise people can just enter into the history of other Churches, religions and nations; enter imaginary stories into biographies of people whom they love or hate, and make Wikipedia a mockery and convert it as an Encyclopedia of unreliable sources. Neduvelilmathew (talk) 17:45, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

We will try to stop that. We have several people now that are capable of keeping some sort of order. Two of us, myself and Tb are essentially "neutral", thought Tb admits to a tendency to favor the Mar Thoma Church. But he is really neutral IMO. I am Catholic and realize that a lot of problems were caused by the Catholic church during the Portuguese administration of Goa. But this tended to disappear once the Dutch and English took over.
Having said that, we don't have the specific knowledge of the Indian Churches. But we ask editors to convince us. They will have to convince readers in any case.
Thanks to Rahuljohnson4u, there are answers to your original questions at File_talk:Nasrani_Evolution.jpg#Answers_to_Neduvelilmathew.27s_comments. I would appreciate if you could take a look at them sometime when you get a chance. Thanks. Student7 (talk) 21:36, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject India Newsletter, Volume IV, Issue 2 – July 2009

Project news
A number of India-related articles have lost their featured article status, including Sikkim and Mumbai. The article about Gandhi was also demoted for referencing and image quality issues. Since then, Mumbai has been brought back to good article status, thanks to the efforts of Kensplanet and others.

Transport in India was promoted to good article status, thanks to the efforts of Rsrikanth05, SBC-YPR and GDibyendu.

Several new workgroups have been formed: WikiProjects Railways in India, Education in India and Transport in India. Please join us if you're interested in those topics!

To do...
The articles that have been selected for our latest collaborations of the month are history of Mumbai, Indian Railways, rail transport in India, Indian general election, 2009 and telecommunications in India. We need your help to improve them!

These India-related articles are currently on featured article review: Kerala (FAR), Brihanmumbai Electric Supply and Transport (FAR) and rail transport in India (FAR). Would you allow these articles to lose their FA status?

Wikipedia Takes Chennai – a scavenger hunt and free-content photography contest – has started in Chennai, along the same lines as Wikipedia Takes The City.

We look forward to more contributions from you. To get started, go to the noticeboard. »

From the editors...
Wikipedians in Bangalore organised a meetup on 5 July 2009; thanks to Tinu Cherian for hosting the event! Arunram and Tinu Cherian wrote extensively about the meetup, which was also covered by Wikizine, Headlines India and The Wikipedia Signpost. Photos have been uploaded to Wikimedia Commons. Sunil Abraham from the Centre for Internet and Society has offered to help host such events in the future. All in all, the meetup was a great success. Watch out for the next meetup! »

Nichalp, an Indian bureaucrat and major contributor to more than 23 India-related featured articles and lists, was desysopped over allegations of paid editing and using sock puppets. An RfC about paid editing was opened as a result of this incident.

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{{Unblock|Do not know why it is blocked. Unblocking is requested}}Neduvelilmathew (talk) 17:14, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I do not see any blocks on your account ... what happened that makes you think there is one? Any specific messages? (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 17:46, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Probably the account is autoblocked. Follow the instructions below to clear the block

Clearing an autoblock

Due to the nature of the block applied, we need additional information before we can decide whether to unblock you. It is very likely that you are not personally blocked. If you are prevented from editing, it may be because you are autoblocked or blocked because of your IP address. Without further details, there is nothing further we can do to review or lift your block. Please follow these instructions:

  1. If you have a Wikipedia account, please ensure that you are logged in.
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  2. Try to edit the Sandbox.
    If you are able to edit the sandbox, you are not blocked from editing. Either the autoblock on your IP address has already expired, or you weren't blocked in the first place. Either way, you can resume editing.
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      If you cannot edit your own talk page, use the Unblock Ticket Request System to make your request.
Beeblebrox (talk) 19:48, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Question on Talk:Nag Hammadi library

The talk pages of articles are reserved for discussions about article improvement. I have taken the liberty of moving your question to the reference desk, where you will also have a much greater chance of getting a reply. Thank you. --Saddhiyama (talk) 17:13, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Marthomans were Jacobites.

Marthomans before the Reformations used the West Syriac St. James liturgy and accepted the ordinated of Syriac Orthodox bishops. Their Qurbana was Syriac Orthodox which included veneration and intercession of saints, prayers for departed etc/

Please refer any non-marthomite website, any catholic, jacobite or orthodox website. Some websites of certain marthoma parishes also state this fact. Or any history book. Some catholic history books claim the Marthomas desperately tried to get reunited with Roman Catholic Church. But even they acknowledge the fact they were syriac orthodox.

This is very basic and very common info, matthew.

Mathenkozhencherry (talk) 16:49, 8 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Uncommon history

Your remark that Keralans had not one, but four histories, sounds a little too close to the truth. I will await with interest the replies on the History page, if any. Thanks. Student7 (talk) 23:02, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletion of Leyamma

The article Leyamma has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

No indication of how this might meet notability guidelines. Lacks citations to significant coverage in reliable sources.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{dated prod}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. RadioFan (talk) 18:01, 14 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for uploading File:Maramon 028.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 15:29, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ahatallah

Please would you go through the article and make your comments on it. Fyodor7 (talk) 18:26, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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