Talk:Pelé

Edison vs. Edson

There is a controversy now going on the page about the correct spelling of Pelé's real name. What happens is that Pelé was effectively registered as "Edison", because his father got the name from the American inventor Thomas Edison. However, since the form "Edson" is vastly more popular in Brazil, that is the spelling that came to be associated with Pelé's name, and that is how his real name is written virtually everywhere in that country (newspapers, magazines, books, etc.). So, there it is: "Edison" is technically and formally the correct spelling, but everybody in Brazil refers to Pelé's real name as "Edson". MUSIKVEREIN (talk) 13:54, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

He is definitely named after Thomas Edison, but he's very explicit in his autobiography that his name is Edson. He does not say that it's Edison on the birth certificate but came to be Edson. Might it not be the case that his father used the Edson spelling when registering his birth? Salopian (talk) 11:22, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

As a matter of fact, Pelé's father registered him as "Edison", exactly like the inventor, and that can be clearly seen in his birth certificate. However and for the reason I pointed out above, everybody in Brazil writes his "real" name as Edson. Therefore, if you want to be technically accurate, it's Edison; if you want to go the way his real name is referred to in his country, it's Edson. Perhaps a way to put an end to this apparently never-ending controversy is to mention this circumstance on his page. MUSIKVEREIN (talk) 12:29, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

No, it's nothing to do with 'everybody in Brazil'. It's what his family called him from the start. (What I imagine may have happened is that the clerk wrote down Edison, assuming the father to be undecuated.) Salopian (talk) 01:40, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I haven't seen his birth certificate. Where can I view it? However, the point is that he was called Edson from birth, regardless of what he he was registered as. So it should be made clear that Edson is not a form that took over once he was famous, but that it was the name his family gave him. Salopian (talk) 10:45, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Pelé's birth certificate can be seen in Aníbal Massaini's documentary feature "Pelé Eterno" (which translates loosely to "Pelé Forever"). In the first part of the movie, there's a camera close up on the certificate, and Pelé's registered name comes through quite clearly. MUSIKVEREIN (talk) 12:29, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

If "technically" his name was registered as Edison, than Edson is much more a nickname than his name de facto. "Edison" is the name his family gave to him, and in terms of Law he is known as "Edison". It may, perhaps, be pointed that, nevertheless, he's more known as "Edson", but cannot state that this is his name. --Tonyjeff (talk) 23:48, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

No, his de facto name is definitely Edson: unless he is lying in his autobiography, he was called that by his family from birth. It's his de jure name that is apparently Edison. Salopian (talk) 01:37, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

There is no point in arguing de jure and de facto names. I may create a nickname for myself and become more known by it, being called so by relatives and anybody else. The nickname may be a misspelling of my name (in fact, something very common in Brazil). Even so, my name will be the original one, which is registered in my birth certificate. It may be pointed that he is more known as Edson, but not state that this is his name. --Tonyjeff (talk) 14:56, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

De facto implies something much stronger than just a nickname, and as such describes the situation here. I don't know about Brazilian law, but in the U.K. one can use a different name legally, so long as one uses it everywhere in one's life, without changing it by deed poll. Anyway, the point is that you cannot just state that one's unequivocal name is the one on one's birth certificate. I have no idea about Wikipedia guidelines -- do they state that full name means 'string of letters on one's birth certificate'? Certainly the article should state both what's on the certificate and what he was called from birth unless someone here actually knows what they are talking about when it comes to Brazilian law. You need to get into a neutral mindset, instead of talking about the version used by the family as a "misspelling" of the certificate version. Salopian (talk) 12:47, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

In Brazil, one must modify the registry of the name to be considered legally, just like Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva and José Sarney. Otherwise, it will be just like a nickname. I have already said that it may be pointed that he is more known as Edson, but not state that this is his name. Even because, if we should consider his name the nick by which he is more known, it would be "Pelé". --Tonyjeff (talk) 04:01, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I am currently working in collaboration with Pele on an authorized book that takes in his early life and times. He insists on me calling him Edson in our conversations (he refers to Pele in the third person). As he is the greatest footballer of all time, I think we should make it clear in his Wikipedia entry that he considers himself to be Edson, not Edison. I have made the insertion, and look forward to your comments. Kindest regards Sammypepys (talk) 18:45, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Some users try to change the name "Edison" to "Edson", keeping the same sources for the first name (as a way to disguise their edition). Please, let's take care with it. Thanks. --Tonyjeff (talk) 19:18, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry but this is a big hoax. You are trying to move it to Spanish Wikipedia and we do not believe in that kind of pseudo sources. The only truth about the name of Pele it is Edson, NOT Edison. Check it out and put the end of the hoax.--Futbolero (talk) 09:22, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

If you could only check the movie, and the image of the registry, instead of accusing others of hoax, would be nice. Tonyjeff (talk) 13:25, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

The nice thing would be to avoid this hoax that you are trying to prove in Spanish Wikipedia. I do not know your purpose but Wikipedia should not allow that hoax.--Futbolero (talk) 21:15, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Here is what Pelé says about this in his autobiography (Pele: My Life and the Beautiful Game) :

“ Shortly before I came along, there was another arrival in Três Corações: electricity. In order to celebrate this great improvement to our daily lives, Dondinho named me Edson, a tribute to Thomas Edison, the inventor of the light bulb. In fact, on my birth certificate I am actually called Edison with an 'i', a mistake that persists to this day. I'm Edson with no 'i', but to my eternal annoyance quite often the 'i' appears on official or personal documents and time after time I have to explain why. As if that wasn't confusing enough, they got the date wrong on my birth certificate as well -- it says 21 October. I'm not sure how this came about; probably because in Brazil we're not so fussy about accuracy. This is another mistake that carries on to this day. When I took out my first passport, the date was put in as 21 October and each time I have renewed it the date has stayed the same. ”

My opinion on this matter: Edson is a common forename and Pelé didn't create it as a preferred short form of Edison (for example, Brazilian Edson Mororó Moura was born 10 years before him). Why not believe his story and respect the name he was given, even though it was misspelled on his birth certificate? After all, the same certificate says he was born on the 21st of July October and we report his real birth date in this article. I suggest we spell his first name Edson and add the above quote as a note to explain why one can also find his first name written Edison. — Xavier, 23:10, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone object to this? Another suggestion is that we keep the current policy and we introduce him as Edison "Edson" Arantes do Nascimento and that we change his birth date to "21st of July October" (with a proper explanation note). Anyway, both his name and his birth date must be consistent either with his birth certificate, or with Pelé's claims. In the absence of objection, I'll proceed shortly in one of these modifications. — Xavier, 07:09, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree, Xavier. Regardless of the merit of the proposed modifications, I think it is about time we put an end to this never-ending controversy, which has been going on for nearly three years now. MUSIKVEREIN (talk) 12:25, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree Xavier. We need to explain the Edison/Edson thing in the article. Also, I have added a reference to the previous only Pelé Eterno reference. emijrp (talk) 16:48, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

 Done. Diff here. I finally chose the second way with a slight modification: both forenames and birth dates are given, along with an extensive explanation including full quotes (original birth certificate and Pelé's opinion). Hope you will all agree with this. — Xavier, 15:07, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

BTW, as you can see, the actual source of Pelé's quote is not the 1977 book "Pele: My Life and the Beautiful Game", as stated on Amazon website, but a 2006 book titled "Pelé: the autobiography". I fixed this too. — Xavier, 15:10, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Another Meaning of Pele

{{editsemiprotected}}"Please change Apart from the assertion that the name is derived from that of Bilé, the word has no known meaning, although it is the name of a Hawaiian volcano goddess and it does resemble the Irish language word peile, meaning football. to While it is asserted that the name is derived from that of Bilé, the name has a direct coincidental Hebrew meaning. The Hebrew word pele( פּלא )literally translates to mean magic, a wonder or a miracle. In fact the word pelefon (פלאפון)has come to be a very common Hebrew word for the cellphone. Pele is also the name of a Hawaiian volcano goddess and it resembles the Irish language word peile, meaning football." 196.23.237.214 (talk) 21:02, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

The Hebrew word pele( פּלא )literally translates to mean a wonder or a miracle.Please change the fact that "the word has no known meaning" . Reference http://www.babynames.com/name/PELE

In fact the word 'pelefon' (פלאפון)has come to be a very common Hebrew word for the cellphone. The literal meaning of the word in Hebrew can be translated as wonder-phone or magic-phone. Pele means a wonder or a miracle or magic and 'fon' comes from the English word phone. Reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelephone Please include this interesting fact in the article ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.141.15.34 (talk) 08:39, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

The fact that pele (פלא) in Hebrew means "wonder" is a pure coincidence. The Hebrew word has the first sylable as the strongest, while in Hebrew the second is the strongest (hence the accent over the second "e" in his name: Pelé). The article states that the origin is the name of goal keeper Bilé, so there is no point in mentioning the Hebrew meaning, since there is not actual relation. Renato (talk) 22:38, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

196.23.241.140 (talk) 19:40, 10 June 2009 (UTC) Joel Block (Johannesburg, South Africa)

 Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. However, Thank you for your suggestion. When you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the edit this page link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to). Nonetheless, please remember to a cite a reliable source for any possibly contestable changes. Intelligentsium 02:22, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Name Continued

If you look at the picture where it says "The marks that Pelé left inside the Maracanã Stadium", the plaque above his foot prints reads Edson Arantes do Nascimento. So his name should be spelt Edson not Edison. Sst787 (talk) 19:57, 19 November 2009 (UTC) sst787

It cannot be denied that he's more known as "Edson", and much of the media uses this spelling. However, his "name" is what was legally registered. Marilyn Monroe changed her name legally; Pele didn't. --Tonyjeff (talk) 19:16, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Sambking, 28 May 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} Pele's official first name is EDSON, withOUT an "i" not Edison with and "i".

Sambking (talk) 01:25, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

From a bit of Googling, it looks like his birth certificate says Edison but he prefers Edson; sources vary a bit. If you'd like to write some appropriate referenced information with reliable sources, please do so and resubmit. Thanks,  Chzz  ►  01:43, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

 Not done

Bald

Pelé means "bald" in French. See Mont Pelé. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.2.155.28 (talk) 17:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't think so. "Bald" in French is "Chauve". MUSIKVEREIN (talk) 21:38, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 67.177.157.189, 5 June 2010

{{editsemiprotected}}

Pele's first name is Edson, not Edison. http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/players/player=63869/index.html

67.177.157.189 (talk) 21:47, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

 Not done: This has been discussed at great length on this talk page. It appears that his first name is "Edison" according to his birth certificate, though he prefers "Edson" himself. Favonian (talk) 22:39, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

nickname from Gaelic

Please note as part of Wikipedia:Pending changes review I have just accepted this edit that purports "Peile" "resembles" the genitive for football in Gaelic. I noted that the BBC page cited does have a user-provided comment on an Irish meaning, but this therefore may not meet Wikipedia's standard for a reliable source. The BBC article proper does not mention Gaelic, Irish, or Wales at all, but does state "he has found out that it means miracle in Hebrew", which is missing from the wikipedia page. A more knowlegable editor could review that section. -84user (talk) 16:05, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Note that I have just now reworded that sentence to match the source. -84user (talk) 10:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Stats are wrong

Stats summary for all normal players in Wikipedia count only national leagus matches. Why Pele's stats include all the matches (including frendly ones)? This should be fixed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.205.206.22 (talk) 21:21, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Attention: name

The name written on the picture of his feet marks is Edson (not Edison), and on www.imdb.com it says it's Edson too. --201.214.5.211 (talk) 19:51, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

See #Edison vs. Edson. —Stephen (talk) 20:03, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

(ec) IMDb is NOT a reliable source. Tbhotch^{Talk C.} 20:27, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Automate archiving?

Does anyone object to me setting up automatic archiving for this page using MiszaBot? Unless otherwise agreed, I would set it to archive threads that have been inactive for 30 days and keep ten threads.--Oneiros (talk) 23:06, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

 Done--Oneiros (talk) 16:57, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Minor fix

Can someone (registered) edit the ungrammatical text under the photo that reads: "Pelé cries on the shoulder of a peaceful Gilmar, after Brazil win the 1958 Cup."