Talk:Vladimir Putin

Judo Section - first leader to advanced levels?

"Though he is not the first world leader to practice judo, Putin is the first leader to move forward into the advanced levels."

Pierre Trudeau the former Canadian Prime Minister held a 2nd Dan black belt in Judo, according to citations in Wikipedia, and I'd think that a 2nd Dan black belt would be an advanced level, as I believe black belt is highest in Canada and then moves to advanced levels like 2nd Dan?

Minor item, but is it correct that he is first leader to move forward to advanced levels (assuming advanced levels is defined)? Judo experts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.223.185.131 (talk) 18:51, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

neutral pov

"Despite claims by President Vladimir Putin that the Kremlin had no interest in bankrupting Yukos, the company's assets were auctioned at below-market value. In addition, new debts suddenly emerged out of nowhere, preventing the company from surviving. The main beneficiary of these tactics was Rosneft. It is clearer now than ever that the expropriation of Yukos was a ploy to put key elements of the energy sector in the hands of Putin's retinue.

Obvious non neutral language and point of view. Don't understand the details and may be true but this is emotive and speculative language with no ref spec. to comments. Maybe someone who knows a little more about russia could fix this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.181.210.185 (talk) 04:07, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Done ( finally, v kontse kontsov) That sentence was easily deletable on its own, just needed to get rid of the "Moreover" at the beginning of the next sentence. This obviously is also a win-win edit. There is too much here anyway. --Paul Pieniezny (talk) 14:22, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Near-native fluency in German

Hi, I would like a citation that proves (not just claims) that Putin's fluency in German is near-native. Thanks! 89.163.95.11 (talk) 22:04, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

You can easily find videos on youtube of Putin speaking in German. LokiiT (talk) 12:58, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your response, LokiiT. I've got native Russian and near-native English, but my German is very basic. I could tell the difference myself if it concerned either of my two languages, Russian and English. But that's not really the point. I've heard some German speakers say that Putin's German is fluent, but no more - i.e. nowhere near native level. Therefore, I wonder if this Wiki article should include a source to corroborate the 'near-native' claim.

Well, according to WP:BLP, all questionable claims, positive or negative, need to be properly sourced. Unfortunately, I have no such source for you. A quick google search shows some results that make the same claim, though none of them are particularly good sources. LokiiT (talk) 17:52, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Now, would that not be OR? ;>) OK, here is a very good source for Putin speaking fluent German (may already be referenced in the article for other reasons): [1]. No need for anything more than that. There is enough peacock language here already. --Paul Pieniezny (talk) 14:53, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

GRU not KGB

It has recently been disclosed Putin was GRU, and not KGB. Perhaps the category should be changed. Thank you. nobs (talk) 02:15, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Here's a link [2] nobs (talk) 03:05, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, according to all of his official biographies (including his autobiography) he worked for KGB, not GRU. Both organizations are secretive, thus everything is possibly but we need much more than a passing reference in a webpage to assume it as a verified fact Alex Bakharev (talk) 08:33, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Su-27 flight and human losses.

Sadly it's long time I am unable edit Wikipedia so I will leave question to other editors. Recently I was seating and watching TV channel "Russia" film about Vympels and Police oficers being blocked in campus in Grozny, Chechnya by guerrilas and federal comand thought they are dead already so they where on their own for 4 days.

So wathcing this I recalled that when Putin was flying to Chechnya on Su-27 the forces that where covering airport where planed to take part in some other operation same time. They where called to airport unexpectedly and where unable to suport some other forces in that operation. In result those other forces took serious casualties.

IF this is realy happened and not "my imagination" or journalist false info I think this belong to the article. I also think that while definetly it is not Putins personal decison who and how should cover his arival it was done by ppls from his administration and as nobody was punished for senseless losses it should be put in "Criticism" section. So I wonder if anybody remember all this too.--Oleg Str (talk) 12:47, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

gdp numbers

This sentence, since it's in the lede should be made much clearer: Russia's economy bounced back from crisis, seeing GDP increase sixfold (72% in PPP). The fact that nominal GDP increased six fold while real GDP increased 72% (the PPP measure) would basically imply that prices (inflation) increased by about five fold+ (with some possible role for changes in prices of tradables vs. nontradables). In fact, generally, nominal GDP is a pretty meaningless measure of anything (it's calculated as a starting point for further refinements) so all that the six fold increase tells you, is that along with the (actually, very impressive) 72% increase in actual standard of living, there was also a lot of inflation.

I'd recommend just removing the nominal GDP figures and sticking to inflation and international price differential adjusted figures (PPP) so as to avoid confusing the reader.radek (talk) 10:34, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Chess career

Info should be added on Putin's chess career. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.24.218.12 (talk) 18:11, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Does he have a chess career? I know that there are online chess players who use the monniker "Vladimir Putin" but I do not really think that the real guy has any time to play online. I suppose he can play chess, but with all the googles that link "Vladimir Putin chess" to Kasparov, how are we to know? Is there a biography which says anything about his prowess at chess? --Paul Pieniezny (talk) 14:29, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Russian protesters angry with Putin

In support of my modification of the article:

Bangladesh News.Net, Sunday 31st January, 2010, http://www.bangladeshnews.net/story/595587

Russian protesters angry with Putin.

A protest against the leadership of Russian prime minister, Vladimir Putin, attracted around 10,000 people to the Russian Baltic enclave of Kaliningrad on Saturday.

Demanding the resignation Putin, protestors shouted slogans against his handling of the Russian economy, especially related to living costs and unemployment.

In the rare show of anger against Prime Minister Putin, the crowd protested vocally against the recent 25-30 percent rise in utility bills, transport costs and the high number of job losses in Russia....

Sincerely, dima (talk) 16:21, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

P.S. Also, The Other Russia, January 30th, 2010, http://www.theotherrussia.org/2010/01/30/12-thousand-car-owners-demand-putins-resignation/ 12 Thousand Car Owners Demand Putin’s Resignation

http://www.jurnal.md/en/news/thousands-of-kaliningrad-citizens-are-requesting-putin-s-resignation-172004/ Thousands of Kaliningrad citizens are requesting Putin`s resignation

Straits Times January 31, 2010 Sunday:
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/World/Story/STIStory_484512.html
Rally to urge Putin to resign
MOSCOW - UP TO 10,000 people rallied in the Russian Baltic enclave of Kaliningrad on Saturday demanding the resignation of Prime Minister Vladimir Putin over living costs and unemployment, a rare show of anger with the popular figure.

http://www.malaysianews.net/story/595587 http://www.kyivpost.com/news/russia/detail/58348/ Russian protesters angry with Putin. Malaysia News.Net, Sunday 31st January, 2010

http://www.actualidadnoticias.com/news_194903_Thousands-rally-to-urge-Russias-Putin-to-resign-%0A----Reuters%0A.html
Thousands rally to urge Russia's Putin to resign (Reuters) 30/01/2010 20:06

Should I add more or these are sufficient for the user who does not speak Russian? dima (talk) 16:43, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Ministership

Question. Is "Ministership" a word? --209.150.99.111 (talk) 06:16, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes. (And SOED agrees.) Mitch Ames (talk) 06:39, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

POV Tag Obsolete

There appears to by a POV tag here from Febuary. Are there still POV issues? If so, can someone list them? Thanks NickCT (talk) 14:30, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

"fundamental" reforms?

How are the reforms described in the third paragraph "fundamental?" Issyl 12:50, 21 June 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Issyl (talk • contribs)

Edit request from Tarian.liber, 4 August 2010

{{editsemiprotected}}

Please change "The use of such alternatives to money now fallen out of favour" to "The use of such alternatives to money has now fallen out of favour" because the current wording is grammatically incorrect.

Tarian.liber (talk) 18:56, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Done. Nsk92 (talk) 19:46, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Relationship with Alina Kabaeva

The rumours resurfaced this week in Indian and Pakistani newspapers. This is a blog but summarizes the claims very well: [3]

Most of the actual newspaper articles seem to be a re-hash of the 2008 story, and even keep Kabaeva's age at 24. Some do add the baby that was supposedly born in December 2009 - which is from the New York Post. The New York Post also claimed Alina and the baby vanished from the earth in February 2010 - which is obviously wrong as Alina continued to publish on her public appearances at her LiveJournal account.

We will probably need to expand the item about her and the rumours. I am not suggesting anything about the veracity of the rumours.--Paul Pieniezny (talk) 14:42, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

• I'd agree. The Putins' marriage does seem in general to be on the rocks - see this Telegraph article. The couple are almost never seen together. Malick78 (talk) 21:09, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
  • This is pure gossip based on the opinion of some unnamed bloggers and misinterpretation of the simple fact that there is only one wife in Russian politics who is expected to appear in public often - the wife of the President. Since Putin is not a President for two years it is quite natural that Lyudmila Putina is not seen in public much for these two years (in fact, she was rarely seen even before). GreyHood ^Talk 13:24, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Unlock

Unlock the page! --188.23.69.202 (talk) 13:47, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

If you see an edit needs to be made, you are welcome to post a suggestion right here.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); September 27, 2010; 14:31 (UTC)

Poisonings

Why do we not have any mention of the killing of journalists or the poisonings of other figures in this article, not even in Vladimir_Putin#Criticism or in Criticism of Vladimir Putin? I would think being accused of murder is a pretty strong criticism, and the accusation has certainly been made. If we are going to leave out accusations in the name of WP:BLP, the fact remains that the number of journalists killed skyrocketed under Putin, and a ban on political assassinations in other countries which was honoured by the USSR-era KGB seems to have been lifted as evidenced by the poisoning of Viktor Yushchenko. Putin was certainly criticized also for the failure of Russian authorities under his control to investigate these incidents. Those are facts, not bare accusations, are notable as they are in reliable publications, and as such are also reliable because they are undisputed facts. It is also a fact that these accusations were made by law enforcement and other officials in the west, but as I said I have certainly seen other articles where accusations were left out for WP:BLP, as evidenced for instance by the article on Pope Benedict XVI where certain editors worked hard to ensure that even when legal action was taken no mention was ever made of such things (through deletes and reversions). We may disagree on that, but the reliable facts should be reported at the very least. Rifter0x0000 (talk) 19:22, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Do you have the evidence that compares a number of journalists killed in 1990s in Russia with that of 2000s? I pretty much doubt that with all that huge criminal situation of 1990s in Russia we may speak about "the number of journalists killed skyrocketed under Putin". They just didn't pay attention in 1990s of how many journalists were killed in the country, while only in 2000s, for some reason, this topic became the focus of attention of human rights activists and the Western critics. Then, Yushchenko's poisoning is rather far-fetched and unclear matter to be brought here - the sources can't decide even if Yuschenko poisoned himself of was indeed poisoned by someone else. And finally, the chief problem is that there are no any "undisputed facts" in accusations on Putin - there is pretty much dispute on all these claims, and all these uncertain things better go to the article Criticism of Vladimir Putin, where they can be presented broadly and accurately, not here. This article is already large by the way, and may do with some contraction. It loads nearly 1 minute long with slow non-broadline internet. GreyHood ^Talk 19:59, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

The number of killed journalists did not "skyrocket" during Putin's time, see List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia#Deaths_and_trials.2C_statistics. It basically stayed same as under Yeltsin. In recent years, it has decreased. Offliner (talk) 16:04, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Btw, these trends on journalist mortality seem to be mostly coinciding with the trend on general mortality in Russia. So, presenting the topic of journalist killings in Russia as something exceptional and connected with Putin's rule is pretty much based on nothing. GreyHood ^Talk 17:05, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

WP:SYN

[4] - then what exactly was Putin's role? Just being in the advisory board of a Germany company that was under investigation, is not notable, and further it feels like WP:SYN, because it's implying that Putin personally is responsible for money laundering, and a WP:BLP violation, because Putin's personal role is not made clear and the implied accusation is not backed up by evidence. Among all the millions of accusations made against Putin, why is this one so important and credible that it needs to mentioned? Offliner (talk) 00:41, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Lex3191, 3 November 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} This is the first time i have made a request i am sorry if i make a mistake. The section 'Early Political Career' paragraph starting 'On 27 June 1997' makes reference to 'Gaddy' but doesnt explain who he is, an also doesn't reference what University the Professors who Putin allegedly plagarised submitted the paper. It is important to the cohesion of the paragraph to explain who 'Gaddy' is and where he was from, and also what university the study originated. I believe the paragraph should be, my additions are in bold:

On 27 June 1997, at the Saint Petersburg Mining Institute Putin was forced to defend his Candidate of Science dissertation in economics titled "The Strategic Planning of Regional Resources Under the Formation of Market Relations".[48] According to Clifford G Gaddy, a senior fellow at Brookings Institution, a Washington DC think tank, sixteen of the twenty pages that open a key section of Putin's 218-page thesis were copied either word for word or with minute alterations from a management study, Strategic Planning and Policy, written by US professors William King and David Cleland from the University of Pittsburgh in 1978 and translated into Russian by a KGB-related institute in the early 1990s.[49][50] Six diagrams and tables were also copied.[51]

and here is the source reference http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article695235.ece

Gaddy is also quoted in the Washington times as saying:

"It all boils down to plagiarism," he said. "Whether you're talking about a college-level term paper, not to mention a formal dissertation, there's no question in my mind that this would be plagiarism."

which is inconsistent with the following line of the previously quoted Wikipedia article

Gaddy does not believe that the plagiarism was really intentional "in the sense that if you had wanted to hide where the text came from you wouldn't even list this work in the bibliography."[52] The dissertation committee disagreed with Gaddy's claims.

The quote is also not in the article referenced as the source.

I think it would make sense to have this instead, section in bold taken from the Washington Times artice

"It all boils down to plagiarism," Gaddy said in a Washington Times interview. "...there's no question in my mind that this would be plagiarism." Although Putin did cite the King-Cleland study as one of his 47 sources, he gave no indication that paragraphs and pages were taken unchanged from the earlier work. The dissertation committee disagreed with Gaddy's claims.

source http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/mar/24/20060324-104106-9971r/?page=2

Lex3191 (talk) 06:43, 3 November 2010 (UTC) Lex3191 (talk) 06:43, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

On first reading I saw discrepancies between your statements and what the sources said, which inclined me to reject your request. However, looking further I saw that your essential point was valid, and I have made changes broadly in line with your suggestion. Certainly it needed to be be clarified who Gaddy is, and that he stated that there was plagiarism. However, reading further, the sources do not fully support your view. For example, in reference to "Gaddy does not believe that the plagiarism was really intentional" you say "The quote is also not in the article referenced as the source". This is simply not true. The cited source says "The next question of course is: was it intentional plagiarism, or what was it all about? And that’s always the question with plagiarism. In this case, I don’t think it was really intentional in the sense that if you had wanted to hide where the text came from you wouldn’t even list this work in the bibliography. Had they not listed the book in the bibliography, I could never have checked it." It is also not true that the quote beginning "It all boils down to plagiarism..." is inconsistent with "Gaddy does not believe that the plagiarism was really intentional", as you assert. Reading the quotes in their context in the article from which they are taken, it is clear that Gaddy is saying "yes, it is plagiarism, but it is not clear that it was intentional plagiarism". Whether you or I or anyone else thinks that this was a reasonable position for Gaddy to take is entirely irrelevant: it is what he said, and so it is quite correct for the Wikipedia article to report him as saying that. JamesBWatson (talk) 09:09, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Paedophilla in Russia

Russia is, and has been since 2001, the global centre for the internet distribution of child pornography produced in Germany, Ukraine [5] Thailand and various other venues [6].

The Russian laws against this type of activity are either non-existent or un-enforced for corruption and economic reasons - self employment in all its guises is encouraged and criminal activities in this regard are ignored providing that there is no clash with whatever the political leadership of the day requires and the required pay-offs are made to the appropriate authorities. The inflows of foreign exchange allied to these activities appear to be important to the Russian economy and this appears to be the primary reason why commercial child abuse is encouraged in Russia!

Putin and Medvedev both deliberately overlook these activities - perhaps 'cos they're proud of Russian leadership in this arena or they fear a political backlash from the criminal fraternity who control this distribution and any mention of .ru sex sites are a taboo topic amongst the Putin/Medvedev supporters and other cognoscenti - at least by those who wish to remain on the cocktail circuit A-list and also to avoid the violent attacks dealt out to those who dare point out the failings of this Putin/Medvedev regime!Semperlibre (talk) 20:36, 26 November 2010 (UTC)