Talk:Tonga

Christianity and the Church

I think the section on Christianity and church denominations needs to be expanded. It plays such a large role in schools, politics and social life. Plus the whole country shuts down on Sundays except for bakeries in the evening to honor the Sabbath. Also could incorporate the notions of tapu and sharing versus selfishness from their belief structure.

I find it curious that they cite the "great majority" of Tongans to be Methodist, yet Latter-day Saint statistics indicate 53,449 members of record in Tonga, and Wikipedia cites a population of 102,000. Either there are figures off, or there are considerable LDS Tongans who are practicing Methodists, or the statement that the "great majority" of Tongans are Methodists is incorrect. Would welcome some clarity to this matter.

I agree. I think the phrase "great majority" of Methodists is misleading if less than 40% of Tongans are Methodists. Some reliable statistics should be found, especially since there is disagreement about the number of Mormon Tongans, etc. 64.142.43.180 (talk) 22:27, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

It's not misleading, it's flat out wrong. A majority is over 50%; what we are talking about here is a plurality. Unless that "Free Church of Tonga" is also considered to be Methodist. Wschart (talk) 21:55, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Here is the government census data on religion. The LDS figure of 47k and the government of 17k are in wide disagreement. As long as we count LDS as a Christian derivative then 98% of Tongans are Christian. 58% are Methodist derived from splintering of the original Methodist church. 97.85.163.245 (talk) 05:55, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Trivia Section

The last trivia entry about the public enemy appears to be vandalism. lol

The entire Trivia Section appears to have been removed. Astonzia (talk) 17:54, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Second Paragraph

I'm pretty certain that a discussion which pertains to a tale told about the islands, which infers that the islanders were cannibals - isn't quite appropriate here. Such a point should be placed lower down in the article in the appropriate context, and certainly not at the top.—86.134.195.89 23:40, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Is there any documented proof that cannibals lived there? Such people would have died off from prion-based diseases centuries ago. Cyslmwah (talk) 23:06, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Politics

Pretty much, the 5th paragraph of the section is a citationless claim. Anyone know where one could find any information? Squiggyfm

Looks like information is pretty scattered. There's a story about Royal Tongan Airlines being shut down at [1] and more about some of the schemes to try to make money at [2]. The Guardian also has a column about Tongan press at [3]. It looks like most official news about Tonga covers the rugby team, some of the economic situation, and the recent deaths of members of the royal family, but not so much really critical of the king's policies. With the media being so tightly controlled I imagine official sanction has been given to stories suggesting Tonga needs more investment. mh. 12:42, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I forgot to put it in my edit summary, but I reverted a poorly-conceived sentence in the Politics section to an earlier form. Curlingforever 03:03, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I removed the sentence "Per capita of the population, it could well be argued that Tonga has more Ph.Ds than any other country" from the end of the 2nd paragraph in the politics section. Speculative, possibly true of course but equally possibly untrue. Anyone with an investment in this proposition should actually discover a source for the per capita rates of PhDs by country and reference the result. Deoxyribonucleic acid trip (talk) 15:53, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Rugby

It should be mentioned that rugby is a very popular sport in Tonga.

Hi, your Wesleyan link goes to the Wesleyan Disambig page, so I piped it to "Methodism." Feel free to pipe it to something else if I mis-interpreted the usage.
--Asbestos 01:05, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

NO, you're right. I've changed the main article, to Wesleyan Methodist. I was oblivious to the fact that not everyone is up on the various branches of Methodism. After Wesley died, it broke into a number of branches, of which the Wesleyans were the largest. Zora 08:59, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

---

Hello out there, everyone else working on the Tonga page. I have a lot to contribute, when and if I have time. I never finished writing up my dissertation, but I did spend 2 1/2 years there, researching the churches.

The current treatment of Tongan history and politics is fine work. I'd be of most use in the non-existent 'culture' section -- even though I have serious reservations about the idea of 'culture' per se. I have just completed a major revision of the page for Music of Tonga.

---

Thanks for the compliment! As for a 'culture' section -- your reservations are the key reason I've left 'culture' out just yet. It's already highly objectivized and officially hegemonic (but very much alive and well, thank you very much)! Re: work on Tongan churches, you might want to look at Ernest Olson's work (Ph.D. circa 1997). 'ofa atu moutolu.

Royal tortoise?

Can someone find a source and add a section on the "Tongan royal tortoise" supposed to have been given to the Tongan king by Capt. Cook in 177-something? It was supposed to have been still alive in the mid-20th century, I think -- according to a faint memory I have of reading about it in "Ripley's Believe It or Not" back in the 1950s. Is this a Pacific-urban myth? Or for real? Or a little of both? --Michael K. Smith 18:00, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

---

It's true. Try Bott, Latukefu, Wood-Ellem, Kaeppler....

tonga in zimbabwe

There is also a people called tonga, living in Zimbabwe, Zambia and Malawi. I work on a webpage: [4] promoting the Tonga in Zimbabwe. if i find the time I would like to contribute something about them, but this has noththing to do with the island of Tonga ...

• I think the custom, if you have enough to say, is to create a page called something like Tonga (Africa) and link it at the top of this page, like: Tonga is also the name of a people in Zimbabwe.

Tui Malila

I moved the bit about the tortoise into miscellaneous, as it's purely a miscellaneous tidbit. I also removed the remark about the tortoise being the oldest living creature. What is a creature? If it includes trees, the tortoise is a piker. Longest living vertebrate? Do we know for SURE? Zora 04:29, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Honestly, I read it in the Guinness Book of World Records that no other thing from the Animal Kingdom has lived longer than that tortoise. Seems strange, but true. I guess I'll go back and edit it with that qualification added. RyanGerbil10 04:44, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I tweaked it a bit more. We don't know that it's the oldest, we only know that it's the oldest recorded. (There might be 300 year old tortoises, or giant clams, or whatever, out there, but no way of knowing or proving it.) Also, I think we have to consider animal a technical term here (kingdom Animalia). Yes, I know, I'm being a nitpicker -- but isn't that the point of writing encyclopedia articles <g>? Zora 08:48, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Only monarchy?

I've got rid of the comment that Tonga was the only monarchy in the Pacific and changed it to "only absolute monarchy". The reason: Samoa is a monarchy according to its article. Ben Arnold 11:22, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I see that you've just changed it to monarchy. We could perhaps go into further detail. The king is in effect an absolute monarch, because he can appoint and remove nobles and cabinet ministers (who are members of the legislature) in whatever quantity he pleases, whenever he pleases, which means that the commoner members of the legislature are always outvoted. They can remonstrate, but they can't change anything. So the constitution allows the king to do what he darn well pleases.

Then of course there's the cultural factor -- the respect for hierarchy and the king. When I was in Tonga, I sat through any number of sermons extolling "talangofu'a ta'e fehu'i", obedience without question. Not just to the king, but to the minister, the church, the head of the household, whatever. The opposite of talangofu'a is fa'iteliha, doing whatever you want. Tongans feel that as a general social condition, this is chaos. It must be stopped. Officially. Unofficially, fa'iteliha is a highly desirable state, for any individual Tongan.

Anyway, there are few if any restrictions on the king and the royal family, either by law or by public opinion. So you were not far off the mark with the "absolute" bit, even if Tonga is supposedly a constitutional monarchy. Zora 11:46, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Friendly Islands

Why does Friendly Islands redirect here? Is it another name for Tonga? Thanks.

Yes, it is. Perhaps that should be mentioned. I'm not sure I'm recalling this correctly, but I think the name was given by Captain Cook. It's an ironic name, because, as the later memoirs of a British seaman who lived for years in Tonga explain, the only reason that Cook and his men weren't mobbed and killed was that the Tongans couldn't agree on how to go about it. Zora 08:21, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Actually, Tonga is called the Friendly Islands because it is. There is no irony to that. Tongans kill and mobbed those because they tried to stand up for themselves and we are natural warriors. We are very friendly people and we are head of Tourism in the Pacific Islands. This is from a native from Tonga; a tongan. Teine tonga (talk) 00:53, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Latitude/Longitude Incorrect for Capital City

Listed on main entry page is: 20°00′ S 175°00′ E

Should be W, as it is for the city entry.

I couldn't figure out how to correct that on the main entry page.

Tonga's GDP and emigrants

In a Finnish economics newspaper it was reported today that Tongan emigrants sending money back to their homeland make up 31 % of the GDP. I'm no expert in economics, but as far as I know, sending money does not add to the GDP of a nation but it's GNP. I'd appreciate if someone had original statistics where one could count the real numbers and make the right conclusion. -EnSamulili 19:31, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Correct Info about the Tongan Empire during the 12th century

I'm surprised its stated here that the 12th century Tongan empire ran from Niue to Tikopia. Is Niue the most furtherest northern island on the empire? If you look on a map Niue lies between Samoa and Tonga. The most supreme Tu'i Tonga ruled all of the Samoas (not part, all! for 300 years) and including the Tokelaun ( Tokelau means North). The empire also extended northwest to the islands of Futuna and Tuvalu, and south to include Rarotonga (Raro means lower Tonga). All people, under the empire were required to pay tribute to the Tu'i Tonga once a year. This tribute was name the "inasi". Inasi is the Tu'i Tonga way of paying taxes. People from all over the empire travel to Tongatapu (sacred island) were the Tu'i Tonga resides, and present the ruler with gifts such as fine mats, food, large canoes, anything that was of value at that time was presented to the Tu'i Tonga. The finest mat of Samoa is name after their master of that time, ('Ie Tonga). The islands of Tonga does not have any forest with large trees to build large canoes such as the 'kalia' (large double rigger canoes that could fit 100 people). These large canoes were build from Fiji and Samoa where forest exist. One of the large kalia that you have meantion 'Lomipeau' (wave crusher) was a gift to the Tu'i Tonga from Samoa, and was presented during the 'inasi' period.

Kia ora,

Rarotonga meaning "Lower Tonga" ?New one to me as it actually means "South West" (south west of where? Tahiti).In fact, the supposed subjugation of Rarotonga to Tongatapu is never mentioned at all by Rarotongans at all.

123.200.247.191 (talk) 08:08, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

country infobox

I have migrated from the static table box to a standard country infobox. Please verify info and change accordingly.Pizzadeliveryboy 23:24, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Tongan barons

Is there a specific article about the style and title of barons in Tonga (I assume it's different to a European baron)? Neither "Tonga" nor "Baron" seem to include a great deal of info on the matter. Walton monarchist89 14:59, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Why no mention of the barbaric cannabilism?

You're thinking of Fiji, where it was widely practiced. A few Tongan warriors were said to have eaten an enemy, but this seems to have been generally regarded as strange. Symbolic cannibalism features in ceremonies like the lou-ifi, where a individual or a group beg pardon by presenting themselves with leaves, as pigs to be cooked if the offended person so desires. This is the ultimate self-abasement. Zora 20:13, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Line of succession

I've made a start on Line of succession to the Tongan Throne, but I really don't know much about it. if anyone can check what I've got and improve the article, it'd be much appreciated! Grutness...wha? 12:45, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Deaths of Prince Tu'ipelehake and Princess Kaimana

How do we get this onto the main page of Wikipedia? I've never needed to make a recommendation about this before, so I'm not sure how to do it. I'd say the death of members of a royal family are at least as important as the death of a thieving lowlife.

Septegram 12:41, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

This was more than a murder than just a death. I think the US should give East "Palo Alto" over to Tonga as reparation. 69.228.240.61 15:10, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Paragraph better off gone?

I'm not sure about the paragraph that begins with "King Tāufaʻāhau and his government have made some problematic economic decisions and are accused of wasting millions of dollars in poor investments.". While that statement is sourced, the rest of the paragraph is riddled with citation signals and looks like a load of potential PoV. Does anyone know if the claims made are true/sourcable? If not, should the unsourced stuff just be removed? 68.39.174.238 17:35, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the claims are true. The late king was notoriously vulnerable to conmen and wacky schemes. I was present at one church conference (Siasi Uesiliana) where the church president, with a carefully expressionless face, read a proposal from the king to buy coffins in bulk to save money on funeral expenses for Wesleyans. The king, of course, knew someone who would sell coffins cheap. I believe the assembly voted to respectfully consider the notion, thereby tabling it. He lost millions of dollars to one con man, his "court jester." Zora 00:13, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Acusations?

Insert non-formatted text here yes the acusations i that paragraph of bad investments is in fact true and has had a large impact on tongas economic system. however, I am not sure if it is partically relevant, just that it is not vandelisim.

RoNa_CaBiLlO Ronacabillo 03:00, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Springcleaning

I updated some references to the late king, rewrote the section on culture a bit (it's a copy of the intro to the main Culture of Tonga article, which someone cut and pasted), corrected a few grammatical errors, and generally tried to make sure that the article was coherent. Comments invited. Zora 06:48, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Other relevant data

Two points of discussion worth adding here:

1) Constant warring with Samoans

2) Kontiki regarding other plausible ancestrage of the Tongan people... Although most anthropologists discount, it is worthy of including. DNA research doesn't discount the possibility that people migrated to Tonga from both the East/West.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kontiki —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MonteShaffer (talk • contribs) 17:19, 16 December 2006 (UTC).

Proposed WikiProject

In my ongoing efforts to try to include every country on the planet included in the scope of a WikiProject, I have proposed a new project on Polynesia at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Polynesia whose scope would include Tonga. Any interested parties are more than welcome to add their names there, so we can see if there is enough interest to start such a project. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 17:20, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Obesity

I saw a program on the BBC tonight about eating in dangerous places, "Cooking in the Danger Zone". The presenter went to Tonga and stated they had 92% of people being overweight. Since this is a huge number, possibly highest in the world, would it be worth a mention (obviously also a citation?) Popher 23:47, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Nauru also has something in that range, and 40% diabetes. Chris 06:52, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

see www1.tonga-now.to/Article.aspx?ID=3741 --Tauʻolunga 07:45, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Why in the heck is Tonga's "Obesity" listed under sports?!?! Since it is listed verbatim previously, I am taking this out. 8P! --Billy Nair (talk) 22:24, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Scouting in Tonga

Can someone render "Be Prepared", the Scout Motto, into Tongan? Thanks! Chris 06:52, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

toka mateuteu, a standard expression, --Tauʻolunga 07:33, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you so much! Chris 05:35, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Article

There was a national geographic article on him and tonga. It mentioned something about the crown prince saying without royal guidance the people of Tonga would urinate in elevators. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.83.164.35 (talk) 21:15, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Category:Schools in Tonga

There seems to be a disconnect go up from the category - it ultimately points to a non-existent article Education in Tonga...--Smkolins (talk) 13:35, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Paula Mataele

I'm working on creating an article on Tongan boxer and kickboxer Paula Mataele. He himself sometimes spells it Pola. I'd really appreciate if someone with more knowledge can confirm that Paula is the correct spelling of Tongan first name. thx. (Marty Rockatansky (talk) 00:24, 5 February 2008 (UTC))

Copyright violation

The entire paragraph beginning 'The coronation of its Oxford educated, Sandhurst trained King George Tupou V...' in the Politics section is copied verbatim from this Guardian article published on May 9th.--GagHalfrunt (talk) 23:30, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for catching that. I've removed it (although it's still in the history). You can do that yourself if(or when, sigh) you see future examples. Thanks again. 75.213.238.122 (talk) (really, User:JesseW/not logged in) 20:17, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation

If the Tongan people themselves and most English speakers pronounce it /toŋa/, then aren't the people pronouncing it /ˈtɒŋgə/ just ignorant? The Oxford Dictionary lists /tɒŋə/ only so I'm going to remove the other, unless someone can come up with a good reference for /ˈtɒŋgə/. Nick (talk) 23:11, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Americans pronounce it as tonka, and they do not like to hear that they are wrong. Ultimately the source of the error is most likely a confusion from tonga, which is pronounced as such. --Tauʻolunga (talk) 06:36, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

actually the reason for the confusion is that it is spelled "tonga." ViniTheHat (talk) 22:24, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I agree the thing about the carriage should be removed. Americans pronounce in "Tonga" because that's how an intervocalic "ng" is pronounced in American English ("longer", "anger", etc.). Far more people have heard of Tonga the country than some obscure carriage, and this is certainly not the reason for the confusion. --18.21.0.100 (talk) 17:35, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

French, national language ?

Where could we find some clue of it ? I'm quite sceptical... Sroulik (talk) 09:30, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Confusing and possibly inaccurate entry on colonial rule and monarchy

Quote: Although under the protection of Britain, Tonga is the only Pacific nation never to have given up its monarchical government as did Tahiti and Hawaii. The Tongan monarchy unlike the UK follows a straight line of rulers.

This implies a connection between colonial rule and the demise of an indigenous monarchy. Hawaii was indepenedent until annexed by the United States, and its phase a republic began before this happened. Additiionally, what on earth is meant by "a straight line of rulers"? I might hazzard a guess, but a guess it would be. This should be clarified Dainamo (talk) 18:22, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Straight line means the successor is the eldest son of the monarch irespective of the monarchs sex. Some matrolinear systems of succession do have the "son" of the eldest sister (daughter of the same mother) as the successor. "Blood linearity" as it was known in medieval Europe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.186.133.249 (talk) 12:07, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

98%

98% and 3% add up to more than 100%, re "Demographics".

Some people have multiple ethnicities. Some people are both Tongan and Chinese.-gadfium 19:44, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Socialized medicine

The following sentence sounds suspiciously like it was written by an American: "Tongans also have universal access to a socialized medical system".

I have changed the sentence to read national health system to avoid the use of a highly stigmatized and specifically American term. 121.73.7.84 (talk) 10:21, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Tonga Government Information

www.mic.gov.to —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tminoinfo10 (talk • contribs) 09:00, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Ministry of Information - Government of Tonga

Government News and Information www.mic.gov.to —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tminoinfo10 (talk • contribs) 09:06, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

www.mic.gov.to Ministry of Information & Communications - Kingdom of Tonga

www.mic.gov.to —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tminoinfo10 (talk • contribs) 09:08, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

The Government - Tonga

Official Website of the Government of the Kingdom of Tonga - Government News and Information. www.mic.gov.to —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tminoinfo10 (talk • contribs) 09:16, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Spaceport Tonga

This source says that InterOrbital Systems (InterOrbital.com) plans to build a private spaceport in the Kingdom of Tonga with orbital rocket launches starting as early as this year. The company tag line is apparently on that is, 'from paradise to outer space'."

Does anyone else have a reliable source for this claim? Ought we reflect this in the article on Tonga? N2e (talk) 00:11, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Tonga and the German Language

Doesn't Tonga speak German? If you have any confusions with this, go to www.hodenmumps.to, a website from Tonga. Trust me, it's in German!

82.12.1.173 (talk) 15:10, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Many websites using .to are unrelated to the country. See .to. I doubt that German is a common language in Tonga.-gadfium 21:24, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

how many islands??

there are different information about the amount of islands. english wikip says 176, german 169 and the CIA reports says 169. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/tn.html ... also the amount of islands which are inhabited is different (36 vs. 56) ... WHATs the correct information, if this is important?? -- Ronny - 20101124 - —Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.191.198.91 (talk) 10:10, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

The source for the article figures is [5], which says it is the Official Tonga Government Tourism Website. It was removed from the article yesterday on what appear to be spurious grounds, and I've restored it. I would prefer to see a more authoritative source; perhaps a census report or publication of the Tongan government.-gadfium 18:59, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

You will never get an answer if you do not first define what is an island. Is that single rock there, or that sandbank there, etc. a seperate island or not? --Tauʻolunga (talk) 06:06, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Not the only monarchy

In addition to the Samoa instance mentioned above (which a weird ambiguous case), there are also Tuvalu and the Solomon Islands, which are monarchies that happen to have as their monarch the same person as the Queen of the UK. Nevertheless, they're fully sovereign. --Jfruh (talk) 23:13, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Infobox content

I placed English ahead of Tongalese, per alphabetcial order. GoodDay (talk) 21:44, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

The Tongan government note their languages (here) as "Tongan, English". There is no reason to use a different order to the government. I will revert. Daicaregos (talk) 10:50, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

No probs. GoodDay (talk) 14:51, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Major recent Political developments have not been added to article

Quick search of the news shows Tonga now has its first democratically elected PM. This isn't even in the article. Also the political/government structure has changed dramatically, including the role and responsibility of the King. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.228.219.66 (talk) 02:19, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

United Nations Peacekeepers

Tonga did contribute troops to conflict in Bouganville and the Solomon Islands, but neither were with the United Nations. Solomon Islands was with RAMSI and Bouganville ??? (121.73.69.226 (talk) 07:39, 3 April 2011 (UTC))

mention of the UK monarchy in History section

I removed a passage from the following sentence (in bold): The Tongan monarchy, unlike that of the UK, follows an uninterrupted succession of hereditary rulers from one family. The passage concerning the UK monarchy is not correct. The British royal family is itself an unbroken line that stretches back almost 1200 years. The crown has always stayed "in the family", or rather, given to the "next of kin". The only arguable exception is the succession of King George I, who was of the house of Hanover but descended from King James I...he came to the throne because Queen Anne died without any issue of her own, & since all family in the line of legitimate succession were Catholics, the UK parliament gave the crown to the first protestant on teh list. See the article Descent of Elizabeth II from William I. --Mrlopez2681 (talk) 21:57, 15 July 2011 (UTC)