Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Civility enforcement

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Case Opened on 08:38, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Watchlist all case pages: 1, 2, 3, 4

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Involved parties

• Alexandria (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), filing party
• Malleus Fatuorum (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Thumperward (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
• John (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
• Hawkeye7 (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Statement by Alexandria

Alright, I think this has gone on way too long to not end up here. Malleus Fatuorum has a long history of incivility, nastiness, and other sorts of undesirable behavior, leading to an extensive block (and unblock) log. Because of his comments on WT:RFA, Thumperward blocked him indef due to this history. After a brief ANI discussion, John proceeded to unblock Malleus. After more discussion on ANI, Hawkeye7 then reblocked Malleus for a week. I am willing to unblock Malleus for discussion here only unless clear consensus arises to have him unblocked fully before the week is up. I'm requesting this case to look at A. Malleus's behavior and B. the wheel warring that occurred. I'm not aware of any RFCs at the moment but the long extensive history of this to me warrants a full ArbCom case.

Reply to Peter Cohen Peter, I clearly stated here and on his talk I am willing to unblock for the purpose of replying here only unless there is clear consensus for a general unblock.

Add on by Alexandria Per Wikipedia:RFAR/G#Exceptions, I urge arbcom to take this case as part of the 2nd bullet point, or "Unusually divisive disputes among administrators". Malleus is the major concern here as the other admins would not be wheel warring over his behavior if it wasn't so divisive among them. A RFC/U would accomplish very little as they are non-binding. Malleus has been told many times to tone it down, only to be met with more hostility. I don't see what a RFC/U would accomplish other than a light tap on the wrists and someone going "tone it down buddy".

Statement from John

I'll try to keep this short. I've been aware of Malleus for a couple of years now. At first I had the view of him that (seemingly) User:Thumperward, User:Hawkeye7 and some others have. You can see that from my comments here, in October 2010. On reflection and on a closer examination of Malleus's contributions, something I strongly encourage his detractors carefully to do, I afterwards modified my stance that civility could be easily summed up with a list of "words to avoid". I tried here in January 2011 to throw down an olive branch to this editor, and later that month I worked closely with Malleus to raise the article on Margaret Thatcher to GA status. As a result of that experience I have since tried to coach him occasionally in his interactions with others and with the community norms we have. Here is the most recent example, from earlier this month.

I regard Malleus as one of the most positive contributors overall to our project of writing an encyclopaedia, and also one of the most misunderstood. In some ways he reminds me of the tragic genius Lenny Bruce, an American comedian who was hounded to his death by the civility police of his day, in a case which afterwards caused a collective re-examination of contemporary obscenity laws. I unblocked Malleus in full knowledge that our background of occasionally working together might cause me to be considered as involved; I did so however mindful of the provision in policy that "In cases which are straightforward, (e.g. blatant vandalism), the community has historically endorsed the obvious action of any administrator – even if involved – on the basis that any reasonable administrator would have probably come to the same conclusion." I regarded Thumperward's unilateral indefinite block of a long-term contributor as being as egregious (if well-meaning) an error as deleting the main page or blocking Jimbo, and as being equally straightforward to undo. We do not indef-block established editors without warning or central discussion. My reading of the discussion at AN/I seemed to support this; at the time I made the unblock there was zero support for an indef, no rationale had been posted for the block, and several other admins were talking about imminently undoing the block. Since the action several respected admins and at least one current Arbcom member have spoken in support of what I did.

I nevertheless regret any contribution I have made to the unfortunate drama and would welcome any clarification that may come about regarding this sort of block and who may unblock on what occasions. I particularly regret any offence I caused to Thumperward who is, as far as I know, a good admin and was undoubtedly acting with good intentions even if the community feels he got it wildly wrong on this occasion. I am also confident that my action did not contravene WP:WHEEL, contrary to Thumperward's assertion in the immediate aftermath of the events. I would welcome any further clarification the committee may be able to make regarding the nature of civility; my own view is and has long been that blocking for breaches of civility is as productive as fighting for peace or fucking for virginity. The best way to enforce civility is to model it in one's own interactions. Blocks should be reserved for egregious and unwarranted personal attacks. It would be interesting and useful to see further clarification of the general principles involved. As regards this particular user, I think Bishonen has put it very well, that the steps in WP:DR have not been exhausted and that this would typically require a RFCU before Arbcom sanctions were warranted against an individual user. --John (talk) 14:00, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Statement by Hawkeye7

The facts of this case has been stated by others. I appreciate the understanding that all the admins involved acted in good faith and did what they believed to be correct and proper.

I did not impose a block as a form of punishment or "cooling off". The consensus was that a block should be imposed, but that an indefinite block was too severe. A week was chosen as a period sufficient for the purpose of preventing further disruption to the RfA process.

There was no wheel warring. Malleus was blocked solely for actions after being unblocked.

I do not accept that Malleus is my "superior", nor that his work is worth more than mine.

I do accept that the use of hateful and misogynist language is acceptable where Malleus comes from (but do not really believe it). He did not seem playful and misunderstanding, but angry and aggressive.

I do not understand why an RfC is not in order. I thought that ArbCom preferred conciliation to arbitration. I do not see how ANI amounts to such efforts.

I cam in as an uninvolved editor. I have no history with this person.

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (7/0/4/3)

• Recused. Kirill ^{[talk] [prof]} 15:27, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
• Awaiting further statements. PhilKnight (talk) 15:49, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Accept to examine the behavior of all parties. PhilKnight (talk) 06:05, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

• Accept. This is a long running dispute, highly divisive even amongs administrators, and thus it behooves us to accept this case. SirFozzie (talk) 16:01, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Just so it's clear, I'm planning on looking at the whole package, (MF-Civility, the second mover/third mover wheel war issue, all nine yards. This is not going to be a quick, easy case (as evidenced by the sheer amount of people commenting). SirFozzie (talk) 03:22, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
• Accept Per SirFozzie, I'm less inclined to look closely at Malleus' own behavior (unless someone provides credible evidence that it's recently changed for the worse), but rather how admins are dealing with each other over a matter of good-faith disagreement. Jclemens (talk) 18:38, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
  • The outpouring of opinion here is quite large. I'd caution folks to avoid investing large amounts of time arguing over whether a case should be opened or not, and instead save some of that energy to compile and present evidence appropriately if and when a case is opened. That, more than many electrons expended here, will help us come to the best conclusions. Jclemens (talk) 00:51, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
  • While what Hawkeye7 did has every appearance of a wheel war, Malleus has repeatedly been helped by the second-mover advantage, which has historically given him a free ride as long as someone, anyone, is willing to unblock him. If we sanction Hawkeye by motion, and leave the second-mover advantage issue untouched, we will have done nothing to address the community's concerns. Anyone can block Malleus, but no one can make it stick, because of the second-mover advantage. Perhaps it's time to admit that "wheel war", like "edit war" is not limited to a specific bright-line, but can take place in an initial reversal of an admin action? For these reasons, I do not believe this morass can be untangled by simply pounding down the most convenient nail, Risker. Jclemens (talk) 08:21, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
• Definitely recused. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 20:13, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
• Recuse; even were it not uncomfortably close to the end of my term, I intend to submit comments. — Coren ^(talk) 23:40, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
• Point of order: it was suggested that the incoming arbitrators comment on matters that could be on our agenda after our terms begin, although until 1 January we do not accept or reject requests. With respect to the request as framed, I see three issues: first, Malleus' incivility; second, dealing with problematic "vested contributors" (which is not to say I characterise Malleus as such); and third, the ostensible wheel war.

  On issue one, I do not see how the issue is ripe for arbitration: other than disparate discussions, no prior dispute-resolution was sought for Malleus' conduct. (However, I could be convinced at a later date that we must arbitrate the issue, if these steps are sought in future but do not succeed.) On issue two, I do not think we can be of assistance: the committee has already issued guidance on vested contributors, and policy is clear that the merits of one's contributions does not mitigate unprofessional conduct. On issue three, I think we must open a case to consider whether Hawkeye7 was correct to reverse John's unblock. If a wheel-war did take place and there was no consensus to re-block, then there has been administrative misconduct - of which we should and always have taken a dim view. AGK [•] 02:20, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

• @Scott MacDonald, I reject the idea of opening a case to talk about vested contributors because the resulting decision would be waffle. We would just re-state what everybody knows: that experience does not mitigate unprofessionalism. We could offset the apparent gulf in policy with practice by sanctioning Malleus, but my additional worry is that the community hasn't really tackled the issue except with pitchforks-and-torches threads here and there: where's the community-wide RFC? Arbitration would be messy and the issue should go to the whole community first (which has not happened yet). Regarding Hawkeye7, you misunderstand me: I'm not saying he did wheel-war, and I wouldn't judge that in a preliminary thread like this. However, if he did reverse the unblock without waiting for a consensus, then that's wrong: we don't allow wheel-warring because it's a slippery slope, not just because "policy says so". AGK [•] 03:11, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

• Accept Comment - given queries about other people and whether they can be considered "involved", I've interacted fairly regularly with Malleus. Am happy to recuse if folks think I I should do so. considered input from others, ok let's sort this out. The scope is (1) planning a way forward on the civility dilemma as put forward by the two main sides, and (2) review admin actions of those involved. I was criticised for trying to deal with a predecessor to this case by motion, and think therefore this needs a case.Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:59, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

@Wehwalt, I did think long and hard (and oscillated), but I've been observing the evolution of a fair few of these civility dustups recently including antecedents, and I don't think my relationship is hugely familiar with Malleus to preclude me trying to work a solution. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:04, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

• Decline as a case. With respect to Malleus Fatuorum, there is no valid reason to skip the RfC phase. With respect to the so-called wheel war, there were intervening edits by Malleus which an administrator may have considered sanctionable (indeed, I do wonder about the speed of the unblock to some extent, it could easily have waited longer while further consensus was developed and the blocking admin's indepth rationale was posted). I am also concerned that any administrator would make a comment like this about someone he has just blocked; it did more to inflame the situation than to calm it. I would consider some motions in respect of this request: 1) Banning Malleus from WT:RFA until the completion of a community RfC and 2) a suitable sanction on Hawkeye7. Risker (talk) 03:57, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Accept - That the community, many members of whom have commented here after (literally) years of complaining about Malleus, cannot be bothered to even try to do an RfC in this area is a poor reason for accepting a case; however, at the end of the day, this is simply too divisive to continue as is. Risker (talk) 12:07, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
• Comment: I have strong feelings of deja vu about this request; didn't we just have pretty much this exact same case request a month or two ago? Only the names of the blocking and unblocking admins seem to have changed between last time and this time. When I voted to decline the previous case, I expressed the forlorn hope that that particular block/unblock cycle might be the last such incident and that Malleus Fatuorum might moderate his tone of expression to prevent further bickering. Needless to say, that hasn't happened, and since I don't see the issues here being addressed by any means short of arbitration, I am leaning toward accepting the case. Caveat 1: This case shouldn't drag on for weeks as often happens; that will just poison the atmosphere on-wiki for everyone. We would need to pick strong hands-on drafters committed to keeping things moving. Caveat 2: Over the past couple of years I've had my share of disagreements with Malleus, most recently on my talkpage when he reacted there to my comments on the prior request. I am considering whether recusal is warranted; my current inclination is that it is not, but if anyone has a view on this, please feel free to share it with me in the next 72 hours. Caveat 3: I will continue to have minimal time on-wiki until after New Years. Newyorkbrad (talk) 19:07, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
• Comment. After looking at Malleus' block record - [1], this case appears to fit Unusually divisive disputes among administrators. I'd be interested to explore the reasons for such a long history of wheel warring. The usual reasons given for blocking Malleus are Wikipedia:No personal attacks and Wikipedia:Harassment. The reasons given for unblocking are varied and sometimes not clear. There are interesting aspects to this case - why do contributors who are a significant asset to the project, and clearly want to improve it, sometimes engage in uncivil behaviour that leads to blocks? Are they being poked unreasonably into responding testily? If so, can we protect them? Are they by nature crusty people? If so, how far do we tolerate such behaviour from valued contributors? Are they emboldened by their position as a valued contributor to feel they can "get away" with being uncivil? If so, what should we do? If we take the case it would be hoping too much to get a clear answer to these questions, but the investigation would be worthwhile. Hawkeye7's unblock was a clear case of WP:WHEEL which ArbCom are expected to look into. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 19:22, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
• Begrudging Accept; this falls under the realm of divisive disputes and plenty of prior words have been spilt without any meaningful result. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 19:55, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
• Accept: per Cas basically.  Roger Davies ^talk 11:05, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
• Recuse. –xeno^talk 14:38, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Final decision (none yet)

All numbering based on /Proposed decision, where vote counts and comments are also available.

Remedies

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Log of blocks, bans, and restrictions

Log any block, restriction, ban or extension under any remedy in this decision here. Minimum information includes name of administrator, date and time, what was done and the basis for doing it.