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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Shareitnow (talk | contribs) at 17:24, 14 February 2012. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Note: please do not use talkback {{tb}} templates here unless you are referring to discussion areas that I have not yet been a part of; I do monitor my conversations

Hello

That attitude. I dropped the issue since the user calls my sources as unofficial, in order to avoid the edit wars but behaving in this manner with other users is certainly not a part of Wikipedia's policies. Please have a look at it, I'll really appreciate the help. Thank you ♫♪AdyNiz♪♫ 06:45, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies for bothering you again. Any suggestion or response regarding ^? ♫♪AdyNiz♪♫ 13:57, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Check with the reliable source noticeboard regarding sources, dispute resolution for content itself, and WP:WQA for difficult communication (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 18:20, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Block

If you ask an admin to block you are they allowed to do it. I'm seriously thinking thats the best option. I'm getting riled by other editors and it won't be long before I snap completely. I'm sick of people goading me it's childish and I always seem to get drawn in by it and end up fighting back it's doing my mental health no good at all I'm extremely stressed out Ive done so much hard work but its only a matter of time before i lose it. The spi turned into a farce because murry had small digs and got to me. He may not be porridge but he has got to me. I seriously think a block is the best option or are there other non admin ways to block your own account it's for the best. Edinburgh Wanderer 02:09, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

if its possible go ahead and block in I am no longer able to carry on and would like to be off wiki for the forseable. If the account isn't blocked I will return and it's clear I dont have the mental well being at this time to support it.
BWilkins, FYI I've set EW's wikibreak enforcer for 3 months, so this should be resolved. --Floquenbeam (talk) 04:29, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Floquenbeam. I have to say that I'm still scratching my head because I am totally unable to see any behaviour toward E-W that could be construed as harassment, or serious enough to cause such angst. If I could find it, I'd totally deal with it ... but IMHO it's not there ... (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 11:34, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I won't talk about it too much, in order to not stir it up again, but I don't disagree with anything you've said. I don't know if you looked at the SPI, but it's a trainwreck. I've decided to let the dispodition of the SPI be SEP. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:26, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It didn't work so I'm going to do other things for a whilst. I don't mind if people disagree with me at all but would like people to explain why they see it differently. One of the first thing he has said today since he came back and i engaged in dissuasion with him calmly was to say we were sectarian editors with conflict of interests.[1]. Its clear he does not like me at all if he would just engage normally but he does not.Edinburgh Wanderer 20:22, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Give up he decided it would be a good idea to take me to ANI and is misusing your comments there. Im notifying you as he hasn't notified anyone he has mentioned.Edinburgh Wanderer 23:40, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Mentor

Why would you be unable to be a mentor? SilkTork ✔Tea time 10:27, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Take a look at the messages that the one party uses to remove my attempts to assist on their talkpage :-) Clearly, they have no believe in/respect for what I'm saying. Mentoring the other party would look like I took sides (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 10:50, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
OK. Do you feel one party is more to blame than the other, or that it is fairly equal? SilkTork ✔Tea time 11:17, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
They're both a little stubborn: Y steadfastly insists on beginning the edit wars (typically), and B steadfastly refuses to do what needs to be done to stop it the right way. When both behave like mules, they're both at "fault" in their own ways, methinks. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:14, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for that - it's as I suspected from a quick glance at the situation. They need to sort themselves out, or they are likely to end up being blocked/banned from Wikipedia. If I suggested to them that they go through mediation and/or accept a mentor, would you be willing in those circumstances to act as mentor and/or mediator. You seem to be behaving in a fair and balanced manner in this affair. SilkTork ✔Tea time 12:21, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate your faith in me, but I will stay out of this one for the reasons noted above. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:31, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Reply

Your concerns have been noted, and filed. ~*~AnkitBhatt~*~ 16:57, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yes, your attitude towards it is quite clear in the edit summary (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 17:26, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent. Then we are in agreement. And to bring it to your view, the section has been filed into the archives and is not deleted. You are free to access it, but not to tamper with it. As for my "attitude", I don't need to explain anything to you so I will let this pass. ~*~AnkitBhatt~*~ 09:19, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Just to inform you that after demoralizing and threatening a new user to throw him out of Wikipedia and creating all that mess, Ankitbhatt now has raised objections over my idea of giving him a Motivation Award. Thanks. Scieberking (talk) 15:46, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Grange Co-op Deleted Article

Hello. You recently deleted and protected the page Grange Co-op again. I understand where you were coming from. I have been having Internet connections issues and the page edit area was timing out for me most of the time. I believe that I wasn't able to fully complete what I had wanted to because of this issue (I also don't any of the references external sources were saved). I do have the edits that I can send first to see if they will indeed fix some of the notoriety issues. Thank You Getfive (talk) 19:21, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You said you were going to check for useful stuff, create a WP:USERSPACEDRAFT. A live article should never have been created (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 00:02, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You've Got Mail

Using this header as the title, could you please place {{You've got mail}}{{SUBST:User:Cyberpower678/Signature}} as a final message to User talk:Catfish Jim and the soapdish.—cyberpower (Chat)(WP Edits: 513,999,018) 19:48, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hello?—cyberpower (Chat)(WP Edits: 514,596,459) 15:04, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

RFP/C

I have been requesting for confirmed user status for quite some time now.I re-requested it through a second post.My first request was rejected because i had posted the same request with some extra information but no measures were taken to approve my second request.Please act soon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ram ganguly (talkcontribs) 16:33, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, you requested ... and were asked a question, which you were supposed to answer in the exact same section. Instead, you started a new request. You now have 4 total edits, half of which are to RFP/C ... and I see zero signs that you understand Wikipedia's policies or processes. Wikipedia does not have a time limit. Get comfortable with Wikipedia before going into the complex subject of Images (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 16:45, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

bushiroad undeletion request

even if you can't restore it can you at least give me a copy?

Bloope (talk) 17:27, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From what I looked at, it wasn't worth it; 3 lines, most of it related to other companies (as an attempted comparison) as opposed to the company itself ... (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 18:27, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's a page that I created and I would like the info so I can improve upon it and possibly re-post the improved version. Also, you claim that I was referencing other companies. What are those other companies?Bloope (talk) 18:37, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Bushiroad <ref>bushiroad.com</ref> <ref>bushiroad.fm</ref> is a Japan-based company like [[Cardfight!! Vanguard]] <ref>cf-vanguard.com</ref><ref>bushiroad.com</ref><ref>bushiroad.fm</ref> and [[Weiß Schwarz]], among others.
Was that worth it? Does it meet WP:FIRSTARTICLE? It's not even useful as a WP:USERSPACEDRAFT (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 11:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't create any page for you to object to

You recently wrote this on my talk page:

"Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created may not conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines, and may soon be deleted."

That's odd as I have not created any pages. I do not know what to make of your vague allegation.

LosAngelesWriter (talk) 01:27, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Um yes, on November 12, 2011 you created Sean Zarinegar Travels America. It was deleted, and you now have better access to the guidelines overall, so you'll have a better understanding of why it also cannot be undeleted. There are literally dozens of welcome templates, and I always like to a) make sure editors have been welcomed, and b) ensure that they are welcomed with an appropriate template for their situation (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 10:47, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Login

hi i m mukta sawant & u have blocked my account & told me 2 login and 2 send u request again but whenever i login is comes "There was an unexpected error logging in. Please try again. If the problem persists, it may be because you have cookies disabled, and you should check that they are enabled in your browser settings." what should I do pls help...........--116.203.40.61 (talk) 11:46, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You are indefinitely blocked from editing the English Wikipedia. Please stop trying. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 11:49, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for participating on the 3RR noticeboard

Thanks you for answering my questions :-) I actually did warn him but he accused me of "spamming" his talkpage. He also removed not only the warning templates but my attempt to engage him :( I hope an admin could have a chat with him and get him to cease his aggressive behavior because this is obviously not an issue I want to edit war over. But I can't reason with him if he doesn't want to even talk to me.--TheBigNatural (talk) 16:31, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

He is within his rights to remove your posts, and not engage. Follow WP:DR. If he continues to edit-war, update us and the block will happen if/when actually needed. You have done your part warning him - if he ignores it, then it's his own fault (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 16:36, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks!!!--TheBigNatural (talk) 16:38, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
By all means, I agree with that. I'm as of lately, not in the correct state of mind, and I sincerely apologise for my warring behaviour. Worm has repeatedly encouraged myself to take WikiBreaks, so I think it's appropriate I commence with my first ~ today. And just to make it clear, whilst on the topic of ignoring warnings, I did not ignore them - I just felt they were innapropriate at the time.
So again, apologies, let's move on, and a different approach: If you really feel the images are nesccessary, re-add them - I still think they are not, however a fresh pair of eyes, can decide that one. Thank you, -- MSTR (Chat Me!) 05:14, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Request

I have inadvertently outed user:FarAsSiam connecting it as an alternate account of mine, originally intended to be a clean/fresh start account. As a result it can not serve this purpose, is abandoned, and should be blocked. I apologize to you for the element of deception associated with requesting permissions/confirmed. My76Strat (talk) 16:47, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What, I see no such outing. WP:REVDEL could have dealt with it, and it's impossible for cleanstart if you're still using BOTH accounts - especially if you're still editing the same pages and harping about the same stuff on User talk:Jimbo Wales regarding the same stuff. Cleanstart means move on. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 17:42, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes sir. I understand. A close look at my user page shows [2] where I initially intended to abandon this account. For reasons highlighted in the Jimbo post, I felt there was some unfinished business I desired to conclude. I reverted the stated retirement here with intentions to reach closure. I submit to further questions if more information is required. I will be abandoning this account soon. I will never return to edit as FarAsSiam in any regard. And my apologies remain. My76Strat (talk) 17:55, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, if you could login as the account you want blocked, and confirm on this page that it's you, I'll do it. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 18:26, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, thank you![3] Best regards - My76Strat (talk) 19:54, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I missed your request for a post here, sorry. I concur that the above is accurate. FarAsSiam (talk) 21:12, 7 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
 Done (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 15:29, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ankitbhatt and Ashermadan

Hello Bwilkins. I tried to ignore personal attacks by Ankitbhatt initially, but his words are getting harsher, and impossible to tune out completely. Here, he has accused me of "double standards" and "vandalising the page". Though there might be a little content dispute, this kind of thing must be avoided. Do I report him to WP:ANI or reporting to you alone is sufficent? Also, there's this another character, Ashermadan, an old friend of Ankit's, who thinks I've "gone crazy with the mad-for-Salman disease". Another clear violation of WP:CIVIL. Thanks for your help. Scieberking (talk) 05:34, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Two admins (including me) have now commented on that talkpage. You might want to check the dirt on your own hands on this one (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:49, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your response. I might've done the wrong thing by reverting Ashermadan (talk · contribs) thrice (he wasn't willing to reach a consensus), but I haven't really used uncivil language. Have I done something wrong regarding the whole issue? Scieberking (talk) 14:15, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, someday realize when some degree of "consensus" has been achieved. One can try to extend an argument foolishly, but sometimes it's time to through in the towel. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 18:14, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Notice of discussion at the Administrators' Noticeboard

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Template:ANI-notice regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

See here. I cut the section heading because it was causing the [edit] link to edit the template, not whatever page this is on. Thing is supposed to be subst'd and this cut has removed section headings from a bunch of pages. Know anyone tasked with cleaning up such messes? It's beyond my pay-grade. Template should whinge if it's not subst'd, too. And someone may need to poke the Twinkle people about this. Alarbus (talk) 15:35, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Diff of Template:AN-notice. Same issue. Alarbus (talk) 04:33, 9 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I want it known..

That I was not intending to get User:Wingard banned. And the removal of text from my talk page was because it was included on two other talk pages, did not figure it needed to be included on mine as well. I see now that they are blocked for a year, and to be quite honest, I hope it sticks this time. It's obvious they couldn't stick to their unblock guidelines. But I wanted my side heard as I was not online when all of this went on. MusicFreak7676 TALK! 17:57, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I know. I could see you two had worked out a pretty good truce, although the tension was palpable. This was their doing, and their doing alone. WP:COMPETENCE (and logic) is a virtue. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 18:12, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. I had no issues with Wingard. I had no intentions of getting him banned, I'd never want that. They were, for the most part, doing what they promised to do. And I wasn't going to sit there and not tell someone that he reverted something that needed not to be. I just hope they take this year-long block seriously enough to think about actions and the consequences they have. MusicFreak7676 TALK! 18:16, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No issues ... that's why we're here :-) (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 23:04, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you!!

Hi there! I just wanted to thank you for fixing the Garrett Ryan page. I just couldn't figure out the cite error. Even Musicfreak didn't know. Anyway, thank you so much for your help I thought for a second all my work went down the drain. Thank you again :) Creativity97 Talk? 18:14, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Someone had not closed a <ref=> tag ... so the rest of the article was awaiting the closure. Also, the table was missing a couple of parts - someone had defined a new row, but not closed it (nor put anything in that row) (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 18:15, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oh okay, sorry that was all me. I still make mistakes sometimes, who doesn't though :) But thanks, next time I'll make sure to be more careful. Creativity97 Talk? 18:24, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

MSU Interview

Dear Bwilkins,


My name is Jonathan Obar user:Jaobar, I'm a professor in the College of Communication Arts and Sciences at Michigan State University and a Teaching Fellow with the Wikimedia Foundation's Education Program. This semester I've been running a little experiment at MSU, a class where we teach students about becoming Wikipedia administrators. Not a lot is known about your community, and our students (who are fascinated by wiki-culture by the way!) want to learn how you do what you do, and why you do it. A while back I proposed this idea (the class) to the community HERE, were it was met mainly with positive feedback. Anyhow, I'd like my students to speak with a few administrators to get a sense of admin experiences, training, motivations, likes, dislikes, etc. We were wondering if you'd be interested in speaking with one of our students.


So a few things about the interviews:

  • Interviews will last between 15 and 30 minutes.
  • Interviews can be conducted over skype (preferred), IRC or email. (You choose the form of communication based upon your comfort level, time, etc.)
  • All interviews will be completely anonymous, meaning that you (real name and/or pseudonym) will never be identified in any of our materials, unless you give the interviewer permission to do so.
  • All interviews will be completely voluntary. You are under no obligation to say yes to an interview, and can say no and stop or leave the interview at any time.
  • The entire interview process is being overseen by MSU's institutional review board (ethics review). This means that all questions have been approved by the university and all students have been trained how to conduct interviews ethically and properly.


Bottom line is that we really need your help, and would really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you. If interested, please send me an email at obar@msu.edu (to maintain anonymity) and I will add your name to my offline contact list. If you feel comfortable doing so, you can post your name HERE instead.

If you have questions or concerns at any time, feel free to email me at obar@msu.edu. I will be more than happy to speak with you.

Thanks in advance for your help. We have a lot to learn from you.

Sincerely,

Jonathan Obar --Jaobar (talk) 21:13, 8 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

IP follow-up

Hi BWilkins, can you please have a look at a report I just filed on WP:3RRNB? It's the expected follow-up to this incident a few days ago, but surprisingly involves a long-dead account. Nightw 15:23, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I won't - you posted a 3RR notice - please don't then canvass others. Let those who watch the page deal with issues without the canvassing. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 15:27, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, sorry. I just thought because you dealt with the last incident you already know the background and might want to follow it up. Didn't realise that would be considered canvassing. My apologies, Nightw 15:42, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your note. I'm reassured to see I'm not the first person to be the subject of his indignation... AndrewWTaylor (talk) 15:32, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

RE: How is this useful

Alright. I'm sorry that my comment became an upset. I know that you wanted Jimbo to respond, but I believe the thread concerning signatures has exhausted itself; the thread doesn't have anywhere else to go. It's time to move on to the next step and talk to Joedesantis. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 19:38, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It was condescending that you'd feel I did not know that I would need to talk to the editor - I've been around for awhile, and they don't just hand the mop to anyone. Any, that's all good ... please keep conversations together on one page ... like it says when you edit this page, I am watching the conversation on YOUR talkpage (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 20:26, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Clarifying a misunderstanding

I DO appreciate the "help" and the words and advice that Bmusician (and even to some extent you) gave before. And the point about deletion. Whether I totally agree with its hasty implementation by some, or not. I KNOW that I should have written more in the beginning. That would have been better, I know.

I was just making the point (that you're ignoring) that it would have been nice if more than 3 seconds were given in deleting the thing. Like maybe 24 hours. THAT'S IT. Regards. Hashem sfarim (talk) 20:38, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not possible. If you want 24 hours, you create a WP:USERSPACEDRAFT - simple as that. A non-conforming article cannot stay until you decide to come back to work on it. You've been told this. More than once. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 21:21, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Brilliant simile

"Railing on because policy states that an article that looked like TBI did got deleted is like peeing yourself while wearing a dark suit: nobody else notices (or cares), and eventually you feel pretty crappy."

Masterful use of language. BTW, you're not invited by my house any time soon wearing anything dark. I knew a guy like you in grad school.  :) Toddst1 (talk) 21:38, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't wear white pants until spring ... will khaki's be considered "light enough"  :-) (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 19:48, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I screwed up...

Thanks for writing that whole huge paragraph about socking, but I have found my error and the user was not socking. Just wanted to stop by to inform you. -- DQ (ʞlɐʇ) 03:18, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Made my own quasi-apology there as well. Good on ya for stepping up! :-) (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 19:48, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your contribution to solve my IP problem

Thanks a lot, It works fine now. See you--Bruno2wi (talk) 10:20, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please

insted of being an admin can i be a rollbacker please AwesomeSponge (talk) 14:00, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe when you earn it, yes. We don't just hand out advanced permissions willy nilly (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 19:47, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

User:Cyberpower678

I was just composing the note explaining why. Yes I should have mentioned it first. But it was so out of whack with reality and IMO likely tio have been seen by god knows how many of the junior cohort. But how ironic that someone else comes to me about it. Did CP himself notice and wail on IRC or are you babysitting? If the latter, had you not noticed his somewhat singular interpretation of rollback until now? Plutonium27 (talk) 19:43, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

First: please keep conversations together (as per my edit notice) ... I am, after all, watching your page for replies. Second, I'm watchlisting his talkpage ... I don't review his userpage because it's typically his business. Yeah, his interpretation is wrong, but teach a man to fish, he'll eat for a lifetime ... (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 19:46, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You could have asked me. I put that up there when I wasn't that experienced. I know it's wrong (I forgot to fix it), and unless it's a disruption to Wikipedia, you shouldn't have been the one to change it.cyberpower (Talk to Me)(Contributions) 20:16, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

GBooks snippets

Are you aware of any policy/guideline that specifically discusses the use of GBooks snippet views for sourcing when the contributing editor has not seen a broader view/had offline access to the source etc? Someone is trying to say that it is acceptable but I am pretty sure that it is not because of the lack of context etc. To my mind, the correct approach is to find alternate sources or get hold of a copy of the relevant source, via WP:RX if necessary. - Sitush (talk) 22:27, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

1RR restrictions?

[4] Is it true that an admin may not impose a 1RR restriction on an editor? I want to know if I screwed myself by agreeing to one. Darkness Shines (talk) 23:28, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Conditions of unblock and conditions of editing can be placed. They have far more teeth as a condition of unblock, or when agreed-to by the community (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 14:15, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Canvassing

Your concerns have been noted. ```Buster Seven Talk 13:49, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]


Note [5], [6] showing a second editor also doing the same CANVASSing. And [7]. Cheers. Collect (talk) 16:36, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see that as meeting the definition of Canvassing ... it's merely following up (thankfully to only a few) saying "nevermind, it's done" (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 16:48, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Why "thankfully"? Writegeist (talk) 17:11, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Because Buster spammed canvassed a crapload of people ... if the follow-up had been to the same number of people, it would have been equally ridiculous (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 17:14, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think "co-operative notifications" or "co-operative editing" is closer then? Collect (talk) 17:17, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Mawashi Protective Clothing

Good day Bwilkins, I updated the justifications to undelete the page Mawashi Protective Clothing... Could you comment please?