If you wish to suggest an image that might be appropriate as a Featured Picture Candidate, please do so at Wikipedia:Picture peer review. If the subject of the posting you are about to make is not about a FP candidate, please make it at Featured Pictures talk.
380 noms without canonical closing statements from 2007-2011
A sub-sample that I took suggests that most of these noms have never been closed. The ones I looked at, I closed "Not promoted: expired" [1]. Given how highly active FPC talk has recently been, I have no doubt that the most active participants, such as John O'Neill and Mr. Milburn, will give a show of genuine concern for the project by contributing substantially to this task. As for me, I've spent half a day compiling this list. Comment, strike, or delete them when they've been dealt with, I don't care which. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 14:24, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Two are missing because they had special characters whose formatting got mangled. I'll add them as soon as I find them again. I closed one which was withdrawn; the other turned out to be a miscategorised delist nom. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 14:24, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The ability to do proper statistics. For now, I've excluded the "doesn't seem to have been promoted but we don't know why" from the figures presented, so the figures aren't super accurate, with 10-20% being accounted for by these "strange" noms. These 10-20% include withdrawn noms, never-listed noms and miscategorised noms, but again, I can't quantify that for you. I agree that it's quite possible to continue to exist with an overgrown back yard, if that's how you want to live. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 09:38, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In my opinion, we should simply delete any nomination that wasn't listed and wasn't voted on. Nominations that were transcluded or voted on should be archived properly. Jujutacular (talk) 13:14, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think we should sweep under the carpet that sometimes people can't figure out how to transclude. It would serve the project better to (a) try and address the fundamental problem, and (b) see if we can reach out to people that have actually been trying to contribute but couldn't figure out how to make it work. I saw several could-be candidates that might actually be worth nominating now. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 12:47, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's a separate issue. Anyone is free to re-nominate the images, but these old nominations need to be dealt with. How about an archive specifically for these? Makeemlighter (talk) 01:56, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment FPC criteria states: "For promotion, if an image is listed here for nine days with five or more reviewers in support and the consensus is in its favor, it can be added to the Wikipedia:Featured pictures list. Consensus is generally regarded to be a two-third majority in support, including the nominator and/or creator of the image;"
Looking at the nomination, the 2/3 majority was not met. (5 support (including nominator) and 2 oppose = 7 total votes). There was no consensus met so it didn't qualify to be promoted to FP status. The closer was correct. Dusty777 (talk) 23:37, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
::How did you figure that out? A 2/3 majority would be 6 supports over 2 oppose.... the picture only has 5 support over 2 oppose. You better check your math again. Dusty777 (talk) 00:48, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
4/6 = 2/3 = 66.666...% (darn decimal, sorry... I had done the division but neglected to multiply by 100). 5/7 = 71.4% = roughly 5% more than 2/3 Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:41, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Result unclear because Fir and Brand didn't specify whether they support the alternate. I likely would have assumed that, but it's worth checking, especially now. Makeemlighter (talk) 01:54, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Kind of a dead discussion (sorry for the lateness) but as far as I'm concerned, if a voter does not specify which of alternatives they support, they are equally supporting all of them (and then the decision on which one gets promoted depends on other voters)... So in this nom, I didn't really mind which one was promoted --Fir000211:29, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'll just reiterate that it has previously been considered to be a reviewer's duty to keep up with developments on a nomination, so if they don't specify "original only", their vote has always been thought to apply to new uploads as well. Similarly, an early oppose isn't automatically voided by a new upload being added to a nom. And yes, this should have been a promotion. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 11:47, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Pretty clear promotion on !vote count, consensus comments, and trend. Promotion has to go to Alt Crop failing further clarification; 3/5 supports specified Alt Crop, and it was already there when Fir !voted and he didn't specify either way. --jjron (talk) 14:09, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, per the obvious consensus here, I'm going to overturn the close and promote the alt crop. Dusty, your maths is way off. You say "A 2/3 majority would be 6 supports over 2 oppose.... the picture only has 5 support over 2 oppose. You better check your math again." That's incorrect. 6 supports over 2 oppose would be a three quarter support (eight total votes, and six is three quarters of eight). 5/7 (what we have here) is higher than 2/3 (what is required): Represented as a decimal, the former is approximately 0.71, while the latter is approximately 0.67. J Milburn (talk) 16:01, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey guys, as someone who is not the most computer-program savvy guy out there, I am having a problem with the recent influx of super-high resolution art scans. I think it's great that we have the capability to feature such excellent reproductions; however, most users (myself included) do not know how to view such a file by using outside programs, and the files are so large, the browser does not support it. There is no point in having the picture as an FP if only the privileged few among us are ever able to view it. The casual readers on WP will not take the time to figure out how to view it through a large image viewer or download it and view from their hard drive. If we, the FPC reviewers, are the only ones who ever see it at full size, what's the point of featuring it?
As it stands currently, I am withholding votes for any of the large art scans b/c I can't see them. If this trend keeps up, I'm going to have to start opposing on the grounds that they have low EV because the general public can't view them.
That being said, I do think we need to have the largest possible copy for FP. Would it be possible to somehow include on the image page a viewing option to see a size that is somewhere between the 800x1000 and 8000x10000 that the viewing size template currently offers? 800x1000 is too small, and 8000x10000 won't view in my browser (latest version of Firefox). What do you all think? Clegs (talk) 11:34, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You have to use the large image viewer. The template is usually transcluded on Commons, otherwise you can add {{LargeImage}} yourself on Commons. The link is to the right of where it says "Warning" on pink background (sorry, pink is pink). Perhaps we should discuss whether a bigger link button, or some sensible redirection is needed instead, such that the big image viewer is used by default (let JavaScript detect flash and use JS-only version if flash not detected) and the full size image downloadable through an additional link just underneath the thumbnail on the image page, right after 1280xFoo, as well as through the link in the file history, as before. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 11:45, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As I've said before, using the large image viewers works fine for me even with a bad connection. Regarding a new / improved template, I've seen this mentioned several times. Is there any way to implement something like PLW2 suggests above only on the English Wikipedia, or would we need to talk to Commons? I agree that the current links to the image viewers are not in the most visible position. Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:54, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It can be done here, and in fact without any policy hassle, using an appropriate WP Vector/Monobook script, depending on the skin you use. Of course, rolling out nice things to the rest of the world is desirable as an ultimate goal. (Having said that, the same user script should afaik be usable without alteration on Commons as well - you'd want to add it both places, otherwise you may confuse yourself). Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 17:29, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
True, but that would still leave most people who don't bother scrolling down with crashed browsers. IPs, for example, can't use user scripts without an external tool. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:06, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As I said, if you want it to be global, you'll have to fight it through with the rest of the community+devs. Good luck. (And scrolling down is not necessary with user scripts, any link can be manipulated, even picture links.) Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 14:51, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think this problem has been overstated, especially with the introduction of the links to different resolutions right below the images. Many users don't ever click through to the full size image, let alone scroll down. The problem is there, yes, but it is a usability problem, not a FPC problem. We should be featuring the highest quality and highest resolution copy that we have available. The future will bring changes that minimize this issue. Jujutacular (talk) 23:53, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
True, but we may need to socialize this so that we don't have people crashing their browsers by just clicking through mindlessly. It's been suggested a million times, but perhaps a way to put that pink template above the image? Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:09, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing is being achieved here. 126.109.231.71 has confirmed that they are neither avoiding a ban, nor do they have another account known here. No one has evidence to the contrary, and no one has evidence of any wrongdoing or disruptive activity- the closest is a vague claim that 126.109.231.71 is not assuming good faith. Considering the waves of bad faith thrown their way, then, if true, it's hardly surprising. In any case, Saffron Blaze's suggestion is the best- "Tempest in a teapot. Ignore the votes of users not logged in and carry on with business." J Milburn (talk) 09:14, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
So I note the anon IP account 126.109.231.71 continues to contribute and indeed !vote despite repeated reminders that they need an account for their !votes to be counted. I see also apart from the multiple reminders on FPC that Clegs has also left them a separate message on their talkpage explaining the reasoning, which was met with a reply stating "I will never surrender!". While I haven't found this user to be disruptive in their manner of contributing, and in fact find them to be quite well informed in some areas, I'm starting to wonder what to do. Do we simply keep reminding them and requesting they create an account, whilst ignoring the !votes? At what point do we regard the failure to respond to the community input and consensus regarding needing an account as becoming Wikipedia:Disruptive editing, and proceed from there? --jjron (talk) 10:05, 19 February 2012 (UTC) (Note: I have informed the user of this discussion and invited them to take part). --jjron (talk) 10:13, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I was hoping after my invitation that he/she would get the idea, but the user seems to be antagonistic to getting an account. I just posted on their talk page to let them know that they don't have to get an account, but until they do, their input here will be disregarded. Personally, I'm very surprised at the wiki-fluency of this new user (see their first edit here: [1]. Is there any way to check ban logs to see if the user's not trying to get around that? On the other hand, they have made helpful edits at other places. I would suggest a grace period of something like another week; if they still refuse to get an account after that but insist on cluttering up the pages with disqualified votes, then maybe take disruptive editing steps.Clegs (talk) 10:57, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Clegs, the only thing to do would be to perform a checkuser, but please be aware that "fishing" is not permitted. I was going to say that I cannot think of any other processes as vehemently opposed to anonymous users as this one, but, in fact, the regulars at other processes that rely on vote-counting (RfA for instance) would probably react negatively to the same behaviour. That said, I'm not necessarily keen on excluding a user purely because they do not want to get an account. J Milburn (talk) 11:37, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In abstract I would tend to agree with J Milburn that no one should be excluded. But in this particular case it is pretty obvious that this is an experienced user, both in Wikipedia, in general, and in FPC, in particular. Considering the fact that there are so few edits associated with this IP, it probably means that he/she already has an account and doesn't want to use it. -- Alvesgaspar (talk) 12:07, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm feeling a lot of unwarranted assumptions here. As far as I know, anybody, IP or logged-in, is allowed to comment on anything in wikiland. Our rules for vote-counting determine that they have no numerical influence on nomination outcome. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 12:55, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Please, let’s stop being politically correct and look at the facts rationally. Once upon a time there was an anonymous user who came here from somewhere (probably from Commons, where he/she might be a regular) and start voting on FPC. He was politely informed that voting was restricted to registered users. So far so good. But the anonymous user not only ignored the warning and continued to vote (six times in a row, if I’m not wrong) but also challenged the editor who carried the message with a “I never surrender”. When he was warned for the second time by another user, he decided to show a banner in his talk page with his own warning: “This user is like Snufkin. He may be gone tomorrow”. And when responding to this thread which, in the meantime, had been started by jjron, he used the words “Frog you man, frog you to hell”. Do we really need to assume any kind of faith (good or bad) in this case? Isn’t the aggressive and challenging behavior of 126.109.231.71 clear enough? Come on guys! It is perfectly all right to come here from Commons and start contributing as an anonymous user. It is not all right to show bad manners and threaten the community. Answering our question with a ‘Yes, I’m (or was) registered somewhere but prefer to stay anonymous’ would be perfectly all right. -- Alvesgaspar (talk) 21:05, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ya; this edit for example shows them to be familiar with QI guidelines on Commons. Likely therefore also familiar with Commons FPC. Could be a crossover from there wanting to remain anonymous for some reason, which could explain their fluency. --jjron (talk) 12:56, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What damage is being done?
Knowledge could have been obtained by lurking and/or reading the glossary, the latter being something we encourage. Taking measures seems inappropriate and unwarranted. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 13:01, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Lovely witch hunt going on here! I understood that my votes probably wouldn't be counted, but I thought that by contributing to the voting process with actual arguments, I might influence other voters. But calling it disruptive editing, JJRon? Frog you man, frog you to hell.126.109.231.71 (talk) 13:43, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No witch hunt that I see. I agree that this kind of participation may raise some suspiction, as people are concerned with the possibility of 126.109.231.71 being an anonymous version of some well-known user. If that is indeed the case, I'm not sure whether the participation in a discussion as an anonymous should be considered legitimate or not. What about participating in a discussion both as a registered and as a non-registered user? You intempestive answers (instead of a simple and clear explanation) only help to increase the suspiction. -- Alvesgaspar (talk) 15:05, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Why the hell should I have to explain anything? Seriously, your attitude really stinks. I've done nothing but contributed to a few articles and a few votes and suddenly you guys want to put me up against the wall because I know too much for a newbie. If I had actually caused any problems, that'd be one thing, but I haven't! You guys should lay off with paranoia, it doesn't suit you, it's creepy as hell and more than enough to make anybody want to quit Wikipedia.126.109.231.71 (talk) 15:58, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
126.109.231.71, I hope you feel that I have treated you fairly; I do think people are being overly suspicious, and I cannot see any problems that you have actually caused, as you say. Perhaps it would help lay it to rest if you just tell us something: Are you someone completely new here, or do we perhaps know you under a different identity? J Milburn (talk) 16:23, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's bizarre I should need to put anything to rest, but since you're not being an asshole: I'm not avoiding a ban, I do not have a regular account, I am not and have never previously been a frequent FPC voter. I thought it'd be a fun thing to add to my repertoire, !vote or vote, but I had no idea the FPC community was this unfriendly and hostile.126.109.231.71 (talk) 01:27, 20 February 2012 (UTC) And paranoid, forgot to add paranoid.126.109.231.71 (talk) 01:28, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I left a note on 126.109.231.71's talk page about assuming good faith. I don't think disruptive editing will stick... I mean, what has the IP done to qualify as disruptive editing? Contributing to a FPC discussion (despite the fact that his/her vote will not be counted) does not seem to constitute disruptive editing. 126.109.231.71, you need to assume good faith and follow the Talk Page Guidlines so that this issue can be cleared up without further delay. Dusty777 (talk) 18:16, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The whole reason I'm upset is that people are wrongfully assuming I'm a disruptive troll avoiding a ban in spite of my constructive edits, simply because I know how to use the wiki! And you put an assume good faith on MY wall? Bigger men than me would have resorted to name-calling right now. You know it's funny, when I saw jjron's message on my wall about a discussion abobut me, I was happy and in my naivety I thought you guys might be considering half-counting my votes or something along those lines. But instead I come here and find a discussion about how to make me stop.126.109.231.71 (talk) 01:21, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Please, let’s stop being politically correct and look at the facts rationally. Once upon a time there was an anonymous user who came here from somewhere (probably from Commons, where he/she might be a regular) and start voting on FPC. He was politely informed that voting was restricted to registered users. So far so good. But the anonymous user not only ignored the warning and continued to vote (six times in a row, if I’m not wrong) but also challenged the editor who carried the message with a “I never surrender”. When he was warned for the second time by another user, he decided to show a banner in his talk page with his own warning: “This user is like Snufkin. He may be gone tomorrow”. And when responding to this thread which, in the meantime, had been started by jjron, he used the words “Frog you man, frog you to hell”. Do we really need to assume any kind of faith (good or bad) in this case? Isn’t the aggressive and challenging behavior of 126.109.231.71 clear enough? Come on guys! It is perfectly all right to come here from Commons and start contributing as an anonymous user. It is not all right to show bad manners and threaten the community. Answering our question with a "Yes, I’m (or was) registered somewhere but prefer to stay anonymous" would have been perfectly all right. -- Alvesgaspar (talk)
Re: the frog you to hell line, I'm sorry Alves, I didn't know that being rude to other users was a privilege for those who have registered accounts. I kid of course, I'm not a fan of being an asshole to others and I think it's detrimental to any discussion, no matter if it's by using made-up swearwords or simply by acting like a dick. 126.109.231.71 (talk) 02:32, 20 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
FP not currently listed in any category
This photo passed FP but isn't listed in any of the FP galleries from what I can tell.
Thanks. I didn't catch that note at the bottom of the file page, "More than 100 pages link to this file. The following list shows the first 100 page links to this file only. A full list is available." Pinetalk07:54, 25 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Two recent FPC (Flying Fish poster and The Hooping Life) are film posters for current/recent films and are the original images received from the publishers (rather than scans of old classic movie posters). They are high resolution and technically perfect because they are not reproductions. As film posters go, they win no awards for originality and aren't notable. The concern I have is that Wikipedia does not carry advertising. But a film poster is advertising. All the add agency / film producers need to do is donate their advert to WP and ta da! free advertising. If we start to promote these as Featured Pictures, then they get even more publicity, possibly even Main Page.
If the film producers truly want to donate high-EV images to WP, then they should donate a still from the film itself. I propose the FP criteria be amended. For example:
9. Is not a contemporary advertisement. Wikipedia does not carry advertising promote products with advertisements. Film posters are advertisements.
Exceptions to this rule may be made for advertisements that no longer have any promotional value for any current product, or have inherent EV due to their period charm or notability.
Personally, I think posters have higher EV than film stills. Only people who have seen a movie will recognize a screen shot; posters have wider recognition. On a technical note, we have had a contemporary film still nominated here and that failed miserably. For the related article, The Human Centipede (First Sequence), I would much rather have a high quality scan or original version of the poster. Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:48, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not claiming that a film still would necessarily make a good FP, just that it has higher EV for the film itself than a poster. The publicity for a movie is an aspect of the overall movie article, but is just a minor aspect unless it achieves notability. And when the poster is laden with POV review snippets, then there's a built-in NPOV problem. Regardless of the EV, the problem remains that these are contemporary advertisements. We don't do adverts.... Colin°Talk15:09, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Would your proposed criteria include a cutoff date? Like say, for 10 years after the release of the film? As a side note, I think we have entirely different ideas on the EV of film posters. Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:29, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
See the "no longer have any promotional value for any current product" exception. The actual duration might vary depending on the life of the film, sequels, director's cuts, 3D remakes, ... Yes, we disagree about the EV and FP for posters. I think an FP poster has to have inherent artistic qualities as an image, which these particular posters don't have. Colin°Talk15:37, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
See, "no longer have any promotional value for any current product" is unclear (which is why I was asking). For a current example, the original poster for Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace (released 1999) could be construed as an advertisement for the 3D version currently in theatres. Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:55, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Is it unclear? Seems to me that using one's judgement is better than some arbitrary cut-off. If that appeared on the Main Page today, would folk criticise WP for advertising? Seems fairly clear to me the answer is yes. Colin°Talk16:23, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Like when we had the Transformers article on the main page the day of the sequel's release? I think a tie in is fine; we're not saying "see this film", we're riding the hype. Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:56, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think your "Wikipedia does not carry advertising" axiom is factually correct. Both are rightly in the respective infoboxes. Even when they're in copyright, we go to great lengths to use them. They're carried. Whether we want to feature them or not is another question, but I think you need to word it differently. --99of9 (talk) 23:28, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Are you referring to the Water Polo nom? If so I've removed the auto-timer as it's about five days out, so the closer will have to watch the date manually. Dunno why it's wrong; maybe someone inadvertently changed a number somewhere in the template while making one of the comments. --jjron (talk) 13:12, 5 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Huge problem with a featured picture - it is not what it claims to be
I was dismayed to see a photograph of what is claimed to be Hemerocallis lilioasphodelus promoted to Featured Picture. The technical qualities of the photo may be great, but it is not a photograph of Hemerocallis lilioasphodelus.
I have raised this problem here [2], and here [3]:
Hemerocallis lilioasphodelus, supposedly
I am not at all convinced that the photographed exampled is Hemerocallis lilioasphodelus. Make that 100% convinced. I grow it and have been to see the Hemerocallis species and cultivars held in one of the National Collections here in the UK. All examples of the plant I have ever seen are a much more pale lemony-yellow than the version pictured. Given that the photographed example was not growing in its natural range, it is highly likely that it is a cultivar or a hybrid, not the true species. Hemerocallis species hybridise with each other very readily; they are not variable within the species ie they are always the same form, colour etc. This example is not the colour of Hemerocallis lilioasphodelus, and it is hard to tell from the photo but the form seems less gracile also.
This brings me to one of the biggest problems in Wikipedia. We have all these rules for verifiability and sourcing in our written material, but in photographs we just take the photographer's word that the photograph shows what it purports to show. I am not suggesting the photographer here was trying to mislead; just that he or she might have been misinformed and by reproducing this photograph as a Featured Picture, that error is being promulgated and given the veneer of authority and correctness.
The fact that the photographer has misnamed their photograph using an upper case for the specific name (Hemerocallis Lilioasphodelus, rather than the correct Hemerocallis lilioasphodelus) might suggest they are not very botanically clued-in.
Poeple voting on its promotion here [4] clearly are not botanical experts either. For heaven's sake, one comment was "Support Pretty cool. Its more impressive then other pictures in the article" - which may be true, but it is also 100% less accurate than other photos in the article as it does not show Hemerocallis lilioasphodelus. (I have earlier removed another photo in the gallery that also does not show Hemerocallis lilioasphodelus.)
Are we trying to build an encyclopedia of accurate scientifically-correct images, or a 'cool' gallery of pretty images that are incorrectly named and totally misleading to the public?
Huge problem? If the image is mis-identified correct it! Then we are done and can avert another pretentious debate. As to process... would you care to offer a suggestion other than only allowing some subset of certified botanists to take photos of flowers? Saffron Blaze (talk) 13:50, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The reliability of photo subject-identification is a significant problem for WP and well known to be weak when compared with text. All we can do is hope that more knowlegable people, such as yourself, lend a hand wrt fixing any errors. I suggest you leave a message on the uploader's talk page. Is it possible that the flower is correct but the yellow is too saturated due to processing issues or a filter? It could then be adjusted to be more typical. Alternatively, can you identify the correct name? Colin°Talk14:18, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This has happened before. If we can correctly identify it then we just rename the file and change the associated info. If we can't adequately ID it, but are convinced it's wrong, then it's basically a default delist. Re the OP's other issues, yes, there are potential misidentifications of photos (if you can figure a way to get all professional scientists to donate their high quality hi-res images only related to their area of expertise so that we don't have to rely on the general populace let us know), and if picked up during a nom it will not be supported/promoted. We also have a rule-of-thumb requirement that images should be in an article for a period of time before being nominated - in an ideal world the 'experts' writing the article will have picked up a misidentification in that time between going into the article and the image getting to FPC. In this case the image was in the article for some six weeks before the FP promotion occurred. --jjron (talk) 15:49, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Can you provide a valid source (E.G. Other picture of the flower) to back up your claims that the picture is misidentified, rather then just your personal observation? (No offense intended, I would rather have a source to refer to.) I made the comment you referred to in the nomination (not to get off topic too much), and I judged the picture by the FP Criteria and I made my vote by those set guidelines, and I do not appreciate your implication that the mis-identification in the picture is my fault. I will be completely honest with you. I know nothing about the flower in the picture. I read through the article, examined the other pictures, and made my judgment that the picture was:
1. A higher value then the other pictures in the article.
2. Met the criteria.
My opinion on the picture was completely valid. I'm sorry that I voted for a picture that was mis-identified, I was not aware of that. I don't want a gallery of cool pictures either. I like stuff to be accurate and correct. Your comment gives a negative view towards my judgement of pictures... Kinda like I only voted for it, because I liked the picture, and not for the value to the article. Its not that big of a deal, but I would appreciate if you would strike through the part of your comment referring to my vote in the nomination. Sorry that I am kinda going off topic, but I don't appreciate feeling like I am on the defensive. Dusty777 (talk) 17:49, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The CSIRO has an collection of plant images. I spoke with someone from the Australian National Herbarium a few years ago, he said that plant images are more useful if the plant photographed is stored in a herbarium. The same is true of fungi. This is to allow further examination if an id is thought to be in error, among other things. My university was uninterested in storing samples from me, presumably because I wasn't trained in preparing them, it would be work for them to catalog things, and because I couldn't legally collect material without a permit in many cases. I personally consult many researchers and experts when I have any doubt about the identity of a subject, and encourage others to do the same. We have a rule requiring that images must be in an article for a while before nomination. In my experience, this catches most identification errors, though particularly inactive articles can slip through. Otherwise we currently assume good faith and assume that the author has been diligent. We might think about requiring documentation of how an image was identified on the image page. If anyone is unsure, then asking at appropriate wikiprojects, eg WP:PLANTS can bring about additional scrutiny from people that are educated/knowledgeable in the area, and have access to university libraries etc. At any rate, this is wikipedia, any error can be corrected immediately. JJ Harrison (talk) 22:28, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with most of JJ Harrison's points, but I must disagree that "any error can be corrected immediately." An FP delisting requires a procedure that isn't immediate. Pine(talk)07:54, 8 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It can be almost immediate because once an accurate ID is known, the image can be transferred to the appropriate article, or an appropriate article created. That way, the criteria are still satisfied. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 08:56, 8 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
JJ suggest requiring documentation for how an identification has been made in the file page. I think that would be a very good idea. If the identification method is indicated in the file page, reviewers have a chance to validate the quality and be alert or not. Say, if "Self identified used "Den Nye Nordiske Flora"" was stated you had an impression, that something conscious has been done to identify it, that that it might have to be double-checked by an expert, unless the user has demonstrated previously to master that. If the file page gave quoted correspondence with professionals confirming the ID, you would feel more certain. The rarer the species, the more important would it be to get second opions from experts. For instance, I am a (happy) amateur, but have nevertheless claimed to be able to identify 42 different plant species I have encountered in Greenland back in 2007. And in the 4-5 years that have passed since upload, I have been notified on file talk pages that two (as I recall) of the species were misidentified, although I felt pretty sure myself that the id was correct, when I made it. Others may be misidentified as well. That is at least 1/20 was misidentified. That is actually pretty bad and not something I am proud of. So I think it is a real problem with the verifyability. The misidentifications were not easy to catch by comparison, as for a significant fraction of the species, there are no other images on Commons but mine. --Slaunger (talk) 13:31, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't worry about it. Two species is not a significant sample size, and taxonomy is in flux all the time anyway. Maybe you encountered species that were about to be split, or merged, or your reference was out of date. Taxonomists also often find it hard, as nature can be quite variable. Just shrug it off. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 14:26, 11 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
For some more esoteric FPs that could be the case, but not really in a case like this provided it was prominently used and the article didn't already have a very similar FP where a D&L may be appropriate. In general it would not really be any different to any other FP that gets removed from its article. --jjron (talk) 10:00, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi everyone. Thanks you very much jjron for warning me about this discussion. To the contributor who removed my picture: it is nice of you to show concern for the trustworthiness of our Wikipedia. On the other hand, I think you should ask and do extensive research, before removing a picture with no warning to the author, telling people you are 100% sure it is not H. lilioasphodelus, without giving certain proof. You may be right of course, but show some proof please... Am I wrong? It is just fair that you found a proof and then raised the problem, but anyways, let's get to the point.
I do not know about botanics and the capital L on liliosaphodelus was a mistake (I normally name correctly the species I identify, you can check that out on my user page where the same picture appears with a correct subtitle, but those are just details we shouldn't argue about). You are free to correct whenever an error like that appears.
I do extensive research before naming a species on Wikipedia, if I am not sure about a name I just don't name it as you can see on my gallery. I understand the responsibility that comes with informing people.
Hemerocallis flava and fulva are the two species I found are most cultivated in Venezuela, both with huge differences and easy ways to identify each.
As you can see from the file on the right at top H. flava and fulva, my picture shows good coincidence with H. flava (remember lilioasphodelus has many names, flava is one of them), at least under my point of view. As you, I was 100% sure I had the correct identification. So, who is right? Can you provide the proof it is not H. lilioasphodelus? How can we certify this is not H. flava? Well probably we both are right. It might be H. lilioasphodelus, with a slightly different color, nothing too prominent to name a different sub-species. I can only tell you this flower is so often used in gardens in Venezuela, I also have them at home in my backyard with the exact same form and color I might upload a photo to prove it. They are all the same throughout the country here in Venezuela. Guess it is an imported seed they sell here, why would they all be weird hybrids, looking all alike? Maybe due to different conditions (high humidity, and stable high temperatures compared to UK and rest of Eurasia) it grows with a slightly different color, I don't know. Can't be 100% sure, but to me, it looks like it is well identified.
These pictures found through the Wikipedia show the bird Icterus icterus, or Venezuelan troupial, our national bird. Bird specialist J Harrison can confirm the correct identification of the following files on the right:
Bigger belly, more orangeThin specimenLarger clear area around the eyes. This one is 100% surely Icterus icterus, since it was identified in the zoo I took the photo at.
This last one is a more lemon-yellowy color... less orange, just as it happens with the Hemerocallis. Not always a slight difference means a difference species, am I wrong? As you can see, slightly different shapes and forms and colors throught the world, no need to call them all differently. They just adapted differently on different regions I think.
It is very difficult to get Featured picture status for a non full-time photographer. I lost time taking many shots to get the right photo, lost time uploading it, editing it, identifying the species looking on books (I didn't find it on a Gran Sabana's fauna and flora book - obviously since it is not originary from Venezuela), and then on the internet, annotating it on commons, adding it to the page, describing it and nominating it for FPC. I'm not saying it gives me the right to mis-identify species, but why go remove a Featured picture from its article without even consulting first, finding a proof, or have a consensus? Isn't this a little rude to a contributor?
My father is a lifetime dedicated enthomologist. He knows thousands and thousands of butterfly species. He has shown me how sometimes scientists find even the slightest most subtle difference on same species around the world to name a "new" sub-species, mainly to get some recognition. Things like "this one has a 1mm band with four stripes, but this one butterfly has a three and a half stripe band". And then this information is only to be found in some ultra-specialized book or some paper with no picture on the internet. Look, I'm not getting to that point of spending three months to identify a species, sub-species or hybrid. I'll be a normal hard-working contributor, trying to work responsibly, but I have a life. I'm not getting paid for this, it is voluntary work. It does not mean I'll be mediocre, but let's have some common sense.
If you can prove it is a hybrid, then why such a big fuss, it still is a H. lilioasphodelus flower, can be placed on the gallery of the page, with a subtitle reading (H. l. hybrid), and no need to remove it. Just change the name of the file, why such a big fuss and why name it a "HUGE problem"?
Conclusion: I really did not understand why such a big problem was made out from this file. I already lost a lot of addiotinal time writing this and defending my featured picture. This is all I can do, if someone can contact a botanist and clear this doubts that would be really cool. If the accuser can find a proof that's great too! Let's rename it and replace it on the gallery of the page. But please don't go removing pictures like that with no warning. For now it would be fair if picture was returned to the page by the remover, until proof is found, because for now I think the proof I found and demonstrated is more solid than seeing a much more pale lemony-yellow version in the UK.
Last but not least: I'm not getting into a 2 weeks discussion nor a fight with the accuser. This is all I have to say, from here on, I'll go with democracy, if majority thinks it is to be removed, delisted, and I should be expelled from Wikipedia (lol) for posting such an insulting mis-identification, so be it. Of course I'm joking.
My understanding is that some tools have been going down because user accounts got auto-expired if the person didn't log in for some time. The notice displayed suggests this is to avoid old content being viewable, but it seems to be applied indiscriminately even where content is completely dynamic. FWIW, an example can be seen here. I obviously wouldn't know if this is affecting your account, but might be worth checking. Papa Lima Whiskey 2 (talk) 14:21, 11 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hemerocallis lilioasphodelus, supposedly
_Nanga_Parbat.jpg){kind=link}
/Image:Golf_Bunker_shot_1.jpg){kind=link}
![[4]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_picture_candidates/Hemerocallis_Lilioasphodelus.jpg){kind=link}
