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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 109.104.104.8 (talk) at 15:15, 26 September 2012. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Welcome to my talk page! Feel free to ask me anything, but please keep things civil.

Request for assistance

I don't know how to proceed in reopening the Concerns and controversies over Confucius Institutes dispute that was temporarily closed on 18 June 2012. Would you be willing to help us resolve this? Thanks, Keahapana (talk) 20:59, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Keahapana. I think the best course of action would be to file a new case at the dispute resolution noticeboard, and link to the old case that was closed due to the conflict with the ArbCom proceedings. If we can resolve it there, we will, and if not, then we'll refer it on to the appropriate venue. Best — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 13:01, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Mr. Stradivarius, I've just left a message on PCPP's talk page, but noticed that he/she hasn't contributed since 8 August. I'll keep you updated. Thanks again for your help. Best, Keahapana (talk) 01:03, 6 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi everyone, sorry I haven't be editing for a while, but the AE case ended and the arbitrators didn't touch the really touch anything related to DR, so I'll be happy to reopen the case and hopefully work something out with Keahapana. The old case is here [1].--PCPP (talk) 02:37, 6 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi sorry again is there any follow up to the case? I was really busy in the last couple of weeks but I can spare some time next week.--PCPP (talk) 12:13, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi there. Again, let's open up another thread on WP:DRN and see what conclusions we can come to. Best — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 13:18, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No problem, but should I repost the archived thread?--PCPP (talk) 06:29, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think it would be fine just to leave a link to it. — Mr. Stradivarius on tour (have a chat) 06:37, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, on second though I'd be leaving for China later this week, and it doesn't seem like this dispute can be solved in a few days, so is it possible to pospone the DR until I get back in mid October? Thanks--PCPP (talk) 11:00, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, that's no problem - there's no deadline here, after all. — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 13:44, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine with me. However, the article has become outdated. Since we stopped editing in June, some new CI controversies have arisen, including one involving LSE Professor Hughes. I've been waiting to update the page, but what should I do? Wait? Post the links on the Talk page? And PCPP, 一路平安. Keahapana (talk) 00:51, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

谢谢你,Keahapana. BTW feel free to include the stuff you want to add either in the talk page or your own user page.--PCPP (talk) 06:18, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds like a good way of doing things to me. Propose a wording on the talk page, and we can work together until everyone is satisfied with it. Also, if a post on the talk page doesn't receive a response in a while, I think it would be ok to add the material to the article. We don't want to completely stop the flow of edits, especially while PCPP isn't free to participate in dispute resolution, but there's also no need to be hasty. — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 09:52, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Page Curation update

Hey all :). We've just deployed another set of features for Page Curation. They include flyouts from the icons in Special:NewPagesFeed, showing who reviewed an article and when, a listing of this in the "info" flyout, and a general re-jigging of the info flyout - we've also fixed the weird bug with page_titles_having_underscores_instead_of_spaces in messages sent to talkpages, and introduced CSD logging! As always, these features will need some work - but any feedback would be most welcome.

Please comment on Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)

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Result of discussion on 'List of countries by ethnic and cultural diversity levels'

Hello, there were three votes for keeping the article (Kitfoxxe, Trevj and Bearian), one person had no opinion (Dbrodbeck). Two people who had voted to delete (Ipsign and S Marshall) earlier have not responded since I made substantial edits to address their concerns. So I think the result of the vote should be keep, not no consensus. Thanks. I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations (talk) 20:38, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there FMT. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the concerns raised by Ipsign and S Marshall. Their arguments were well-grounded in Wikipedia's deletion policy, and it could also be reasonably argued that the Patsiurko, Campbell and Hall (2012) source is a primary source, depending what parts and in what context it is used. It would have been nice for there to have been more discussion about this particular source, but in the absence of such discussion I simply assumed that Ipsign's and S Marshall's arguments would also extend to cover that source as well.

I think the basic issue here is that, from a Wikipedian point of view, the article has been written backwards. It was written from the main primary sources in the field, and then secondary sources were sought to provide additional views and commentary. In the academic world this is good practice, and the sign of a well-thought-out and well-written article. However, in Wikipedia, this is a tell-tale sign that an article may be based on original research, which is a big no-no. On Wikipedia, the bedrock of the article should be provided by the secondary sources, and then primary sources can be used to flesh out the details. This reminds me of a quote which Guy Macon has on his userpage:

"If Wikipedia had been available around the fourth century B.C., it would have reported the view that the Earth is flat as a fact and without qualification. And it would have reported the views of Eratosthenes (who correctly determined the earth's circumference in 240BC) either as controversial, or a fringe view. Similarly if available in Galileo's time, it would have reported the view that the sun goes round the earth as a fact, and Galileo's view would have been rejected as 'original research'. Of course, if there is a popularly held or notable view that the earth is flat, Wikipedia reports this view. But it does not report it as true. It reports only on what its adherents believe, the history of the view, and its notable or prominent adherents. Wikipedia is inherently a non-innovative reference work: it stifles creativity and free-thought. Which is A Good Thing." --WP:FLAT

Hopefully with this you can begin to understand the attitude to primary and secondary sources on Wikipedia, and why that attitude led to the article you wrote being nominated for deletion. With a "no consensus" close the article is not likely to be nominated again for a few months at least, and practical upshot will likely be the same as if the close had been "keep". There is a reasonable chance that the article would be kept an any future AfD debate, but there is not a lot we can do about that now unless more secondary sources are published that cover the subject in detail. There will likely be a quiet period at the article now that the AfD has been closed, so I recommend taking a break from it and concentrating on other articles you are interested in. And for next time, try starting with the secondary sources - it will save you a lot of headaches in the long run. This has been a bit tl:dr but I hope it helps. Best regards — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 07:41, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding afd

Sir, I have nominated Sanmarga for afd. But initially i found that it is not properly listed in afd listing. So I thought of removing the tag and nominating again. Now, This should have resulted in two nominations. I beg your pardon and am very Sorry for this. I don't know how to rectify the same. So am kindly requesting you to rectify the mistake. -- Bharathiya (talk) 01:49, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there. I've fixed it for you. Let me know if you have any more AfD trouble. Best regards — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 06:37, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Georgetown Emergency Response Medical Service

Got an EC with you while trying to close this AFD. Are you sure it needs relisting? Deryck C. 11:24, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I was relisting pretty much per Stalwart111's comment - I'd like to see more discussion along that general theme, and also about how the sources relate to WP:CORPDEPTH. That said, if you want to close it, feel free. Just revert my changes and have at it. I should probably leave a relisting comment if you don't, though, as it is probably going to confuse people given the two "keep" !votes. Best — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 11:31, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'll leave it open. Do go ahead and add your relister's comment. Deryck C. 11:40, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, done. Thanks — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 13:50, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fazhengnian/“Sending Forth Righteous Thoughts”

I came here after noticing a Notability discussion at Talk:Falun Gong. Then I discovered Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fazhengnian. Here is an image of Falun Gong practitioners send forth righteous thoughts before the Chinese Consulate in New York. According to google books, secondary reliable sources discuss the subject of FLG "sending forth righteous thoughts". According to primary FLG sources: "Sending forth righteous thoughts is one of the three things that Master requires of us. It is very important, and every Fa-rectification period Dafa disciple must do well in this regard.". Bottom line is I am not sure why the page was deleted. AgadaUrbanit (talk) 21:34, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi AgadaUrbanit. Among some of the "keep" !voters there seemed to be a misunderstanding of WP:RS, and User:Cravix's comment seemed to be a case of WP:ITSIMPORTANT. The "delete" !voters, on the other hand, mostly pointed towards the lack of coverage in reliable secondary sources. I chose to delete because the "deletes" seemed much better based in policy than the "keeps". Most of the mentions in that Google Books search you linked to above look like mentions in passing, so they could reasonably be argued not to count towards notability; if solid sources can be found, though, there is no reason that another article on fazhengnian cannot be created. I think probably the best way of going about this would be to add more content on fazhengnian to the main falun gong article, and split it out if it becomes big enough. Or if you like, you are welcome to take this to deletion review if you think there was a procedural problem with my close. Let me know if you have any more questions about any of this. Best — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 02:00, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good, thank you, AgadaUrbanit (talk) 07:30, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

RfC: natural and programming languages labels

Hello! Template talk:Infobox software § RfC: natural and programming languages labels is now month old. As you proposed the RfC and didn't !vote there, I wanted to ask you to close it formally and implement the result. Thanks in advance! — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 11:55, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there. :) I'd be glad to close it, but I'm going to be busy today. Can you hold on until tomorrow? — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 13:21, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, no deadlines on Wikipedia, and I'm not in a hurry. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 13:45, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, closed. Let me know if there's any aspect of the implementation that I messed up. — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 04:33, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! I'm only not sure whether it is right to remove the links per lack of consensus – as I get it, no consensus means no change. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 09:37, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, I suppose so, but then I don't think it would make that much sense to use a wikilink with "written in" and "available in". This seems like a good place to apply IAR to me, although I'm not opposed to adding back the wikilinks if people object. — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 15:10, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm OK with no links. If anybody isn't, malcontent will surface on talk page, and dedicated discussion will result in some explicit consensus. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 17:10, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dispute resolution about minorities in Greece

Hi. Referring to this closed dispute, I see no progress have been made. I had to be absent since almost a year and user Chzz seems to have turned inactive meanwhile. Besides, unfortunately, I see no progress in the page. Do you have any suggestions as to how to solve this issue? Best regards, Filanca (talk) 12:31, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Filanca! I recommend filing another case at the dispute resolution noticeboard, and linking to the discussion that was closed. We can work out what the best course of action is after that. Regards — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 15:08, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

According to deletion of Minetest article

In my opinion, this article should not be deleted. Of course, it may be not fitting in your "notability guideline", but really, what exactly does it mean? And why are the articles from the community-driven pages considered as "unreliable"? Seriously, Wikipedia was meant to be "free and open encyclopedia that anyone can edit" and to gather crowdsourced information. This point has been lost since, if articles like that are being deleted. According to the policy, it seems to me, every article regarding a smaller or even bigger open source projects is a subject for a deletion. My question is: why is that? You need from the article to be "notable" and it is hard for open source projects, because the projects there, especially the less known but great games like Minetest, hardly ever win some prize or are reviewed on games websites or in magazines - just because they are free and open source, and websites and magazines like that focus on the commercial projects. In my opinion, having some information about this game on Wikipedia would not be a harm to Wikipedia itself, more - it will be an enrichenment. Please reconsider your decision.Phitherek (talk) 14:03, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Phitherek. Articles from community-driven sites are not generally considered as "reliable" per Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources as anyone is free to write anything they like about a subject. If we did not have this rule then editors could write an article about their pet subject, and then source it to sources that they themselves wrote. (See WP:SPS for the policy.) I hope that you can understand that it would not be a good idea for us to allow this kind of thing on Wikipedia. But actually, the guideline for identifying reliable sources goes one step further. It requires that sources have some sort of process of editorial oversight or fact-checking to be considered as reliable, and this is where the sources that were in the article seem to fall down. If sources that have this kind of fact-checking are found in the future, then we can consider having an article about Minetest and possibly restoring the article that was deleted. But until this is the case, we have to abide by Wikipedia's notability guidelines, I'm afraid. Let me know if you have any questions about any of this, and I'll be glad to help you out. Best regards — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 15:07, 16 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for action in Infobox Software

Hello, Mr. Stradivarius

Thanks for this edit. It was long overdue. I am glad it has finally come.

By the way, you needn't have used {{nowrap}} because of |labelstyle=white-space: nowrap that is already in the code.

Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 00:19, 17 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, that's a good point. I'll go and remove it now. Thanks! — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 00:38, 17 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/We Just Decided To

Can you share more about why you relisted Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/We Just Decided To? Something beyond the boilerplate in the discussion of "generating more discussion". Is there anything in particular you see missing from the discussion? Please be specific, I'm trying to understand why this was relisted.--RadioFan (talk) 03:01, 17 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sure. I decided to relist basically because there weren't any new convincing arguments presented since the last relisting. At the moment the discussion seems to be leaning towards redirection, but I saw it as borderline as to whether there was a strong enough consensus for it to be closed. As it was borderline, I thought I would err on the side of caution and defer to the previous relisting admin's decision. Hope this explains things well enough. Best regards — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 04:17, 17 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate the explanation. I get a bit concerned when I see multiple re-listings. They generally drag things out and rarely produce much additional productive discussion. Occasionally it does happen though.--RadioFan (talk) 12:57, 17 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Article about Radha Thomas

Hi. I have created an article about Radha Thomas and am contemplating it to move it to the AFC space. Before that, I'd really appreciate if you could have a look and give me some inputs, suggestions and advice and hopefully a green signal :-). Here's the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Radha_Thomas Varunr (talk) 09:13, 18 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 17 September 2012

Please comment on Talk:Metal Gear Solid: Ground Zeroes

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Opps

It was a trial template that I forgot to delete - thanks for pointing it out Victuallers (talk) 21:43, 18 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Thanks for helping make Wikipedia better. Enjoy your research! Cheers, Ocaasi EdwardsBot (talk) 05:10, 19 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Talking about you behind your back ...

Just wanted to let you know I mentioned your name to someone seeking advice about dispute resolution in a particular protracted article naming issue, at Tenedos/Bozcaada. Maybe you could offer some advice on the basis of your mediation experience. Current thread here. Cheers, – Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:43, 20 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, as FP mentioned I'm, and possibly few silent others, are seeking information on mediation concerning the title for Tenedos/Bozcaada article. Currently, there is a move conflict that seems to have spilled into a various sections of Wikipedia. The question I'm looking for an answer is what kind of formal actions can we consider to resolve this and avoid it for a longer amount of time. TheDarkLordSeth (talk) 16:23, 20 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there TDLS! First of all, we need to wait for the move review discussion to be closed, as dispute resolution processes usually won't take on cases that are already under discussion in other venues. Then I think it would be a good idea to wait a while for the results of the move discussion and the move review to sink in. A minimum of three months is the general accepted standard, as it is usually seen as disruptive to start new move discussions very soon after a previous discussion has been closed. Personally, I think six months may be a more appropriate figure, to give everyone some breathing space. After that, we can reassess the mood at the page and see whether another move discussion, or perhaps a request for mediation, would be worthwhile. However, if the move review ends with no consensus and the title is still in active dispute, it may be worthwhile to start a request for mediation straight away in order to prevent the dispute from becoming further entrenched. Send me another message here when the move review is closed, and I'll be able to give you a clearer answer. Best — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 12:24, 21 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. My gut tells me that it will be less than 6 months that we'll see an other move request but let's see how the move review ends. I'll inform you when it does. TheDarkLordSeth (talk) 13:25, 21 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Toronto FC photo

I do understand why consensus is needed. A user requested a photo. I have one to add. Kingjeff (talk) 15:13, 21 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there. The problem is that another user also objected to including the photo in the article, so there is no clear consensus for including it. This means that more discussion is needed - if more discussion results in a consensus, then we can include it. If there is no consensus for inclusion, though, then it should stay out, I'm afraid. Best — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 00:01, 22 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Adminship

Hi, Mr. Stradivarius - I don't think I'm quite ready to go for the mop at this time, but I am genuinely flattered that you would think enough of my contributions here to ask. If I reconsider in the future, I'd hope to still have your support. Thanks again for the nice words! Cheers,  Gongshow Talk 02:18, 22 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think you would pass an RfA easily, but it's your choice, of course, and if you don't feel like running now then I'll respect that. Best — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 02:26, 22 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Adminship, part II

Thank you very much for the offer, but I just can't see going thru the vetting process just so I could delete the odd redirect page - that's about the only thing I'd like to be able to do that I can't now. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:18, 22 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I saw that you were active at AfD, so I thought you might be able to help out there. There's always WP:RM as well if you like dealing with page moves. The offer is always open, so feel free to mull it over as long as you want and let me know if you're ready to go for it. Best — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 13:43, 23 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure

I was impressed by your detailed close of Template talk:Infobox software#RfC: natural and programming languages labels. Would you consider closing the discussions listed at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure in addition to the AfD discussions you already close? Thank you, Cunard (talk) 00:58, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it's probably about time I had a look at those! I did say I would help there in my RfA, after all. I'll close some when I have a spare moment. And thank you for the compliment, by the way. :) — Mr. Stradivarius on tour (have a chat) 06:39, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't notice you had volunteered to help out at ANRFC in Q2 of Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Mr. Stradivarius. Thank you for volunteering! Cunard (talk) 06:56, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Page Curation newsletter

Hey Mr. Stradivarius. This will be, if not our final newsletter, one of the final ones :). After months of churning away at this project, our final version (apart from a few tweaks and bugfixes) is now live. Changes between this and the last release include deletion tag logging, a centralised log, and fixes to things like edit summaries.

Hopefully you like what we've done with the place; suggestions for future work on it, complaints and bugs to the usual address :). We'll be holding a couple of office hours sessions, which I hope you'll all attend. Many thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 11:07, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Re:Beatles notifications

Thank you, I will look at Andreasegde's talk page at once, your offer to mass revert is a good offer and will take you up on that if you don't mind, there might be a couple via my phone account User:Mlpearc Phone also. thank you very much I hadn't heard anything about the controversial status. Off to catch your link. (if you could let me know if your script works, if not I'll start it manually) Cheers Mlpearc (powwow) 15:24, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

According to my watchlist your script seems to be working, thank you for your help. Mlpearc (powwow) 15:44, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, I think I've got all of them now (apart from the one at Talk:Rock music, which gave me a little chuckle). For some reason the script tries to revert everything twice, but luckily it seems the MediaWiki software doesn't allow that. Anyway, thank you for helping me deal with this quickly - it's much appreciated. — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 15:51, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, Mr. Stradivarius. You have new messages at Tvoz's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Tvoz/talk 19:44, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please comment on Talk:United States Senate election in Massachusetts, 2012

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Poll disruption

Please remove the disruptive addition of a third option to the poll text. I agree with Piriczki. If the poll text changes during the process we open ourselves up to charges of confusion and disruption. Also, the mediators advised all parties to the mediation that the poll would not go live until the parties had reached agreement. Since no discussion for this third "option" occured during mediation, I argue that to allow it now is in fact to be in breach of the mediation agreement. ~ GabeMc (talk|contribs) 21:36, 24 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I left a message on the talk page of the editor who added it, and Feezo removed it before I could get to it. Discussion about the option is now in the discussion section, which I think is probably a good place for it to go. — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 09:56, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Request for page to be undeleted

Hi there, I've noticed that there's no page for the UK company Amigo Loans, but there was one, before it was deleted on the grounds of lacking notability (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Amigo_Loans). Reading the deletion page, I see that the only argument for notability was that the company had television adverts, which clearly doesn't make them notable, but after a google search of the company's name, I found multiple articles referencing, quoting and presenting research carried out by the company. (see: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/money/city/4305275/No-profit-loans-provided-by-credit-unions-are-on-the-rise.html, http://www.shropshirestar.com/shropshire-business/money/uk-money/2012/09/04/one-in-five-give-up-on-dream-job/, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/borrowing/mortgages/9395294/Payday-loans-could-cost-you-a-mortgage.html etc - there are more but as far as I can see these ones establish their notability). I think this page should be reinstated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.216.105.12 (talk) 08:50, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hello there. I've had a look through the sources you posted, and I don't think that by themselves they would be enough to support a new page. We require a certain depth of coverage in sources before companies can pass our notability guidelines, and these sources don't seem to have that depth. The Sun article only gives a few sentences to Amigo, and the other two articles give quotes by Amigo, rather than including material about the company itself. If you have any other reliable sources that cover Amigo in more depth, you are welcome to post them here, however, and I will take a look at them. Best — Mr. Stradivarius (have a chat) 13:35, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies, I didn't include the main article that I found which was the main point of my post: http://www.lovemoney.com/blogs/credit-cards-current-accounts-and-loans/loans/16885/guarantor-loans-an-alternative-to-payday-loans

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