Talk:Quran

Moved section from Al-Alak

I moved the following part from Al-Alak to here. It can be inserted to the article if you think that it is related to here. Baharyakin (talk) 08:30, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Mathematical Structure in Quran Suras based on number 19 In 1974 Rashad Khalifa claimed to have found a mathematical structure in the Quran that is based on the number 19. He also claimed that this structure of 19 is interwoven throughout the Quran and they are like the signature from its author. Various Muslim organisations however have criticised Khalifa's studies, accusing him of spreading heresy.

- reply from another user - The number of verses in surah 9 is 129. This breaks his code of 19, it makes the total number of verses in the quran 6236, 2 more than his total number of verses required to fit his code. So he has said surah 9 should have 127 verses, he changes the number of verses in the quran, to fit his code. To make his code work. :) Therefore. His code doesn't work without breaking the existing quran. Therefore this is a guy who made a code, and then tried to make the quran fit to it, and changed the quran when necessary, to make it fit his code. Instead of accepting that the code does not work. - end of reply -. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.151.61.82 (talk) 20:24, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Seal #4: S=19 (18.6) Theory - A Simple Repetitive Pattern/Fractal confirms the great significance of the #19, i.e. Metonic cycle = 19 tropical years = 6940 days = 235 synodic months = 254 sidereal months. There were 19 9/11 hijackers: "Over Hellfire are 19 angels" - Qur'an 74:30. See Qur'an 19:19. Re: Surah 9 having 129 verses, who decided this? Muhammad(74=M13+U21+H8+A1+M13+M13+A1+D4) certainly did NOT! I agree with Khalifa that Surah 9 should be reexamined and redesigned to 127 verses to correctly portray the sacred geometry encoded by GOD in the Qur'an. - Ben Hirt

Edit request on 2 July 2012

Please delete " But no 100% Muslims faiths of complete Quran . Because there are several versions with different bugs and mistakes like singular/Plural, coming and going, He/She/We and so on and many things are missing like Surah Tehreem (66) nothing Hazrat Aysha (one the wives of Prohpet).[44][45]" at the of heading "Compiling the Mus'haf" - It does not make sense and I think this person is trying to express a view which has not been proven to be historically accurate - the sources quoted are bias. FAREED HARE (talk) 21:12, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

 Already done Looks like it's already gone. Rivertorch (talk) 06:17, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Section 2.2 - Compiling the Mus'haf

Second paragraph:

"Five reciters from amongst the companions produced a unique text from the first volume, which had been prepared on the orders of Abu Bakr and was kept with Hafsa bint Umar."

All writing about this I have seen say that the uthman version was compiled from combining multiple existing quran versions. Not copied from one original one previously made by Abu Bakr.

So this is disputed that the Uthman quran was a direct copy from an original Abu Bakr quran. If that was true it would not be called an Uthman quran, it would be called the Abu Bakr quran.

But the sources which detail the creation and compiling of the Uthman quran, clearly say that several differing versions of the quran were collected together, and combined into one quran which became the Uthman quran (today's quran).

The numbers in Quran must be corrected with Veyselic Numbers.

OR Redacted
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
SHOULD WE FIX THE NUMBERS IN QUR'AN WITH VEYSELIC NUMBERS? Is there a contradiction/discrepancy in Arabic Language, being a BiDirectional Language?...? VEYSELIC NUMBERS ARE ARABIC NUMBERS WRITTEN FROM RIGHT TO LEFT. MOST SIGNIFICANT DIGITS ARE ON THE RIGHT. FOR EXAMPLE NUMBER TEN IS .I I STATE THAT, THE NUMBERS IN THE HOLY QURAN MUST BE CORRECTED WITH VEYSELIC NUMBERS. WHY?? HERE IS A SHORT EXPLANATION: Allah is El Waheed, Ehad. Therefore 1 symbolizes Allah. There are two directions; Right is superior to Left(according to Quran). There are two numbers; 1 and 0, where one of them(0) depend on the other(1). Zero is nothing/does not exist without 1 Creatures are nothing without Allah(Es Samed), they all prostrate to Allah, willingly or unwillingly. They are created as pairs. Creatures do exis, but only when thay depend on Allah. Therefore 0 symbolizes creatures(note that zero is and even number). Allah and his creatures exist, and creatures all prostrate to Allah when they come in front of Allah. Therefore, when 1 and 0 come together, zero must accept the greatness of Allah, obey his commands, and stand on the left. The number ten must be written as 01 (or .I) According to the hands creatures are created with: Allah has a right hand. Adam is created with two hands. From that I understand that Angels and Satan are created with one hand. Which hand probably created Satan and which hand is probably created Angels. Most probably, hand number 0 created Satan, and hand numbers 1(right hand) created Angels. Angels are commanded to prostrate to Adam. 1's are commanded to prostrate to 2 (Numbers are according to hands created.) 1's are commanded to accept the greatness of 2. (1 already stated that angels are 1's, and Iblis is zero, and 1 is greater than zero(when he declared them the names of all the things)). Therefore 0 is obliged to accept also the gratness of 2. That is why, being a Jinn, Iblis is kept responsible to a command given to Angels. Adam has been created with to hands, hand number 0 and hand number 1. He has also two hands, hand number 1(right) and hand number 0(left). Now, if he chooses to put his right hand forward, i.e. he prefers his right hand over his left hand, i.e. if he orders the hands like 01 i.e. if he chooses Haqq, then he is from ashabul-yemin, and he will go to heaven. If he chooses to put his left hand forward, i.e. he prefers his left hand over his right hand, i.e. if he orders the hands like 10, i.e. if he chooses Baatil, then he is from ashabul-shimal, he will burn in the hell. I am not saying that "People writing ten like "10" will go to hell". No. I am pointing the parallelizm/analogy between numbers and concepts. And I insist that, Veyselic Numbers must be used, at least, in the Mus-haf pages. May be now time has come for such a change in the history of mankind. To fixate the so called "Arabic Numbers". Detailed info can be found at [redacted] Veyselperu (talk) 09:40, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Are you (1) suggesting that any numerals in this article should be reversed? (2) implying that left-handed people are going to hell? (3) simply trying to drive traffic to your personal web site? Rivertorch (talk) 22:50, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

VeyselPeru: (1)Yes, I suggest that every number in every where should be reversed, but it is nearly impossible now, instead I suggest that the numbers in Mushafs should be reversed, because as it is now, there is contradiction in mushafs, words are RTL but numbers are LTR. (2) I am not implying that left-handed people are going to hell. (I am also left-handed person.:) I am saying that the people preferring the evil(left) over good(right) will go to hell, who are unthankful and unfaithful people. (3) Yes, I desire to drive traffic to my personal website [ redacted ], because I want more and more people to learn the contradiction in mushafs and to correct it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Veyselperu (talk • contribs) 08:50, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Your personal site does not count as a reliable source, and Wikipedia is not here for you to promote your beliefs. We do not care if you think that numbers are in the wrong order, our readers are most familiar with the existing Western Arabic numeral system and so we use that one as well.

Wikipedia is not here for you to promote your site or your beliefs. If that is all you're here for, you will not not welcomed. If you want to help build the encyclopedia by doing things such as neutrally summarizing (as defined here) reliable sources (as defined here), or correcting real spelling errors, or contributing relevant images, etc, you are welcome. Promoting your site and beliefs: bad. Building the encyclopedia: good. Ian.thomson (talk) 22:30, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 27 July 2012

Under Ta'wil...

According to Shia beliefs, those who are firmly rooted in knowledge like the Prophet and the imams know the secrets of the Quran. According to Tabatabaei, the statement "none knows its interpretation except Allah" remains valid, without any opposing or qualifying clause. Therefore, so far as this verse is concerned, the knowledge of the Quran's interpretation is reserved for God. But Tabatabaei uses other verses and concludes that those who are purified by God know the interpretation of the Quran to a certain extent.[77] As Corbin narrates from Shia sources, Ali himself gives this testimony:

Please add reference from the Quran itself, as follows:

According to Shia beliefs, those who are firmly rooted in knowledge like the Prophet and the imams know the secrets of the Quran. According to Tabatabaei, the statement "none knows its interpretation except Allah" (3:7 ) remains valid, without any opposing or qualifying clause. Therefore, so far as this verse is concerned, the knowledge of the Quran's interpretation is reserved for God. But Tabatabaei uses other verses and concludes that those who are purified by God know the interpretation of the Quran to a certain extent.[77] As Corbin narrates from Shia sources, Ali himself gives this testimony:

Ebragardenhim (talk) 20:18, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

 Done. Mdann52 (talk) 18:59, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Jesus in the Qur'an and Muslims' contradictory beliefs

Muslims believe in a great contradiction regarding Jesus! They see him as 'just' a prophet, yet, the Qur'an describes his "virgin birth" and that Jesus will return to judge everyone on Judgment Day. Correct? Certainly, this belief should elevate Jesus over Muhammad in Muslim's minds, yet it does not. Let us also consider that out of the three Abrahamic religions and their main representatives: Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad, only Jesus never killed anyone! "Thou shall not kill is a Commandment from the One GOD of everyone on Earth as is "Love one another. - Ben Hirt — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.196.11.183 (talk) 12:13, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

I think you've fallen into Synth. Repent! Hcobb (talk) 12:17, 12 December 2012 (UTC)