Talk:Lakandula

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved -- JHunterJ (talk) 19:18, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

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Rajah Lakan Dula → Lakandula – Up to the 70s and 80s he was often erroneously referred to as Rajah Lakandula, but the terms "Rajah" and "Lakan" have the same meaning, making the use of both "Rajah" and "Lakandula" at the same time redundant. Current orthodox sources, such as William Henery Scott, Luis Camara Dery, and Ambeth Ocampo refer to him either as Lakan Dula or Lakandula. Nick Joaquin, in 1990 (Manila, My Manila: A History for the Young. Anvil Publishing) was particularly emphatic in calling attention to the redundancy. As for "Lakandula" (spelled as one word) versus "Lakan Dula" (split into two words), Lakandula had 242,000 google hits. Lakan Dula only had 66,0000. - Alternativity (talk) 10:35, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Support removing the "Rajah" from the article title. No opinion on whether the remaining is one or two words. --seav (talk) 16:42, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Support removing the "Rajah" from the article title and the remaining being two words. --Arius1998 (talk) 01:48, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Support removing the "Rajah" from the article title. My opinion regarding the remainder would be to join it as one word; keeping the status quo for the remainder (Lakan Dula) works as well. — •KvЯt GviЯnЭlБ• ^Speak! 07:43, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Support to harmonize with scholarly works--Lenticel ^(talk) 00:47, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Comment To be honest, I personally always refer to him, when writing, "Lakan Dula" spelled out separately. (Non-Filipino editors might benefit from knowing most Filipino speakers will say it the same way anyway, regardless of how it's spelled.) Because it spells out the nature of his rank, more recent scholarly works seem to prefer it spelled out (Dery,2001 for example). Those scholars who DO use the term as a single word (Lakandula) don't usually explain their reason for doing so and thus seem only to be deferring to common usage. The direct Legaspi accounts refer to him as "Sibunao Lacandola", mixing in the Tagalog pronoun "Si", which historians routinely separate, such that the single-word convention used by the Spanish has been thrown into question. However, as I pointed up above, Lakandula as a single word has more hits. (I ran a search again, this time specific to articles in English and excluding the word "Wikipedia". The results are the same, with Lakandula getting 144 000 hits and Lakan Dula spelled separately getting 63 700.) What I'm NOT sure is whether there's enough merit in this specific case to override the policies set forth in WP:COMMONNAME. The move request was phrased with those Wikipedia policies in mind. Hm. Whichever we end up using, I suppose a viable compromise would be to use the other spelling in the lede. - Alternativity (talk) 08:04, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

SupportIt is proper that this article respects the proper way of naming a royal, which is title, first name and then surname. The title is Lakan , which according to Scott stands for "paramount ruler", the first name is Bunao, and the surname is Dula. So, by logic and common usage, the title of this article should be Lakan Bunao Dula. Any deviations from this normal way is a suspect of being a paid hack for a family that has for so long been attempting to change the name so that it will be nearer to their surname and therefore easier for them to claim lineage to Lakan Bunao Dula.

• Support renaming to Lakandula (i.e. no "Rajah" and the rest in one word) per nom and WP:COMMONNAME, cmp. this n-gram. Favonian (talk) 15:31, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

If you will change the name of the article, PLEASE DO NOT use the second common erroneous use of "Lakandula", it IS NOT, NOR EVER ONE TERM, IT IS TWO TERMS AND MUST BE USED AS SUCH "Lakan Dula", "Lakandula" is mere gibberish. Take note: Lakan Dula is a title, NOT A PERSONAL NAME, so in this case, we refer to this specific Lakan Dula as "Lakan Dula Banao".--LakanBanwa (talk) 04:13, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

The Philippines National Archives has been unable to provide verifiable and authenticated documents to prove the claim that the Macapagals are related in any way to Lakan Dula. Any such relation is invented history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rockjock810 (talk • contribs) 10:23, 4 June 2008 (UTC) And please don't forget that the Philippine National Archives also have forgers in their midst and other paid hacks by the Palace. Remember the FPJ microfilm fiasco and the senate hearing on the matter? Cdvl (talk) 18:39, 1 July 2008 (UTC) GLORIA ARROYO IS NOT A DESCENDANT OF LAKAN DULA OF TONDO.THIS ARTICLE IS SHOWCASE OF HOW GLORIA ARROYO'S GREAT GRANDFATHER CARLOS LACANDOLA OF ARAYAT WILL STEAL THE IDENTITY OF LAKAN DULA OF TONDO DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE TWO ARE DIFFERENT AS SEEN BY THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE DIFFERENT SETS OF CHILDREN. THE GAME PLAN IS TO SPELL LAKAN DULA AS LAKANDULA, THEN LATER ON LACANDOLA. LETS SEE HOW THESE BUNCH OF THIEVES WILL STEAL HISTORY RIGHT IN OUR OWN EYES USING WIKIPEDIA. WHAT IS GOOD HERE IS WE KNOW THE EDIT HISTORY OF THIS ARTICLE AND THE PEOPLE BEHIND THEM, LIKE R.E.DE LEON OF AGOO, LA UNION.THANKS WIKIPEDIA FOR GIVING US AVENUE TO SEE THE MOVES OF THESE HISTORICAL PLUNDERER. A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE JOINING THE BOYCOTT OF LEGITIMATE PHILIPPINE HISTORIANS ON THIS ARTICLE TO PRECISELY ISOLATE THE MOVES OF THE HISTORICAL THIEVES FROM LEGITIMATE HISTORIANS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.204.157.99 (talk) 18:17, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Most of the pro PGMA/lacandola of arayat entries are coming from these citations.

      ^ The Philippine revolution and beyond: papers from the International Conference on the Centennial of the 1896 Philippine Revolution, Volume 1, National Commission on Culture and the Arts (Philippines), National Centennial Commission (Philippines), Philippine Centennial Commission [and] National Commission for Culture and the Arts, 1998, p. 111
     ^ a b c d e f g h Santiago, Luciano P.R., The Houses of Lakandula, Matanda, and Soliman [1571–1898]: Genealogy and Group Identity, Philippine Quarterly of Culture and Society 18 [1990]

In another Wikipedia article about Juan Macapagal, the neutrality of pro GMA/lacandola of arayat was deemed bias.The comments about the citations above are: "The article relies heavily on a single source, and with that source being a hardcopy journal, it's quite difficult to verify citations and refs online. Needs more online sources. Tagged accordingly. — •KvЯt GviЯnЭlБ• Speak! 12:17, 27 May 2008 (UTC) National Archives. and "Such document does not exist in the Philippines' national archives. As such, this entry is dubious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rockjock810 (talk • contribs) 17:08, 4 June 2008 (UTC)" If this lakandula article is really serious, we should delete any post that uses the above two reference because they are obviously pro GMA/lacandola of arayat. The descendants of Lakan Dula of Tondo wishes to distance from the fictitious guy lacandola of arayat because he is a traitor, helping the spaniards againts native patriots.

On Archives and Archiving

This article was moved from Rajah Lakan Dula, whose talk page had recently been archived by an admin due to violations of WP:NOTOPINION and Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks. Since this page(Lakandula)'s talk page has similar violations of WP:NOTOPINION (thankfully no violations of Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks yet), I am proposing a moving of the contents of the previous talkpage (the content between the headers and the move request - or at least, the first two headings, since the last two headings, while speculative, do raise issues about sources.) to /Archive 2. However, I would rather not be the one to do any moving. Perhaps an admin? - Alternativity (talk) 21:29, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

 Done --Bluemask (talk) 05:42, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

untitled

We are all relieved that this article was finally renamed Lakandula because this is indeed an article about Lacandola Tall Tales of Lubao town in Pampanga. Then, there will be possibility of coming out with the correct article entitled Lakan Dula someday, where the Lakan Dula High School of Tondo was named after. It happened before, there was a Lakandula article and another article Rajah Lakan Dula. Then, the Lakandula article , because of fewer hits, was merged with this Rajah Lakan Dula article. Now, they changed the Rajah Lakan Dula article to Lakandula for a complete circle. Why do they renamed it to Lakandula, no historical reason..except that it is near to Lacandola, a common Filipino surname who happens to be one of the surnames of the grandfather of Gloria Macapagal Arroyo, who is now in jail for several cases. The family has paid hacks who do all these things. They are good in playing around the Wikipedia system.This latest efforts will backfire on them and will earn the hatred of the descendants of Lakan Dula of Tondo, the patriots on descendants of Lacandola of Lubao, the traitors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.204.246.39 (talk) 13:06, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

The family of Gloria Macapagal Arroyo should realize that it is useless to mangle the name of Lakan Banao Dula to Lakandula/Lacandola because it will not give them lineage to Lakan Dula even if they are succesful in mangling the name. The only way to prove their lineage to Lakan Dula is to provide a direct lineage with one of the children of Lakan Dula. Among the children, nobody has the surname lacandola anyway, so, why mangle Lakan Dula with Lacandola when Lacandola will not give them the lineage that they need. In fact, it will only distance themselves with the Lakan Dula of Tondo heritage because they will be isolated and be identified as the Lacandola of Lubao, the traitor family and fake claimants to the lineage of Lakan Dula. Their latest tactic is to enter Luis Taclocmao as one of the children of Lakan dula of Tondo and claim direct lineage from him is a right move. And that move will not require mangling the name Lakan Dula to Lakandula/Lacandola because the efforts are not complimentary to each other..they are in opposite direction. Either they establish lineage through Taclocmao, or they pursue their Lacandola Tall Tales which unfortunately does not provide direct lineage from any children of Lakan Dula. The Dola Goiti y Dula lineage of Candola, San Luis, Pampanga could be it, but the Macapagal Family can not find a relative in Candola, San Luis, Pampanga with a surname Lacandola. The family of Gatbonton like JJMacam is spilling the beans all over town and internet, revealing the family secret that the macapagals are not really descendants of Lakan Dula of Tondo...it is an internal family conflict but the revelation is damaging to the Macapagal. So, let us just maintain the title of this article to Lakandula for the people to see the efforts of the Macapagal Family of Lubao to link with Lakan Dula of Tondo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.50.227.107 (talk) 09:17, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Lakan Dula of Tondo is different from Carlos Lacandola of Arayat because they have a different set of children. The children of Lakan Dula of Tondo are Batang Dula, Felipe Salonga, Magat Salamat, Dionisio Capulong, Martin Lakan Dula and Maria Poloin. Carlos Lacandola has a grandson named Juan Macapagal y Reyes, meaning, the daughter of Carlos Lacandola has a surname Reyes but married a Macapagal that gave birth to Juan Macapagal y Reyes. Lakan Dula of Tondo has no daughter with surname Reyes as seen in the list above, because he has only one daughter, Maria Poloin. Therefore, Lakan Dula of Tondo and Carlos Lacandola of Arayat are two different people. Furtheremore, this Wikipedia article is not about Lakan Dula of Tondo but Carlos Lacandola of Arayat. Gloria Macpagal Arroyo is not a descendant of Lakan Dula of Tondo but of Carlos Lacandola of Arayat. We have uncovered a historical anomaly in the Philippines. Thanks Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.50.246.162 (talk) 07:25, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

It is possible that one of the grand daughters of Lakan Dula, Dola Goiti Dula from whom Candola (owned by Dola)of San Luis, Pampanga was named after, married somebody with a Reyes surname. Later, the Reyes family will have a daughter who married a Macapagal which gave birth to Juan Macapagal y Reyes. This could have been very possible and logical and fool proof, which will put the Macapagal Family the honor of being a direct descendant of the first - born son of Lakan Dula, Batang Dula. This could have settled every doubts if the Macapagal are really descendants of Lakan Dula or not. But the paid hackers of the Macapagal family are not seeing it that way. They are so illogically fixated in changing Lakan Dula with Lakandula and later Lacandola which only made the real descendants of Lakan Dula of Tondo mad because it is insinuating that Lakan Dula of Tondo and Carlos Lacandola, the traitor from Arayat are the same. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.204.132.215 (talk) 08:40, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Lakan Dula, Banaw, and the Muhammed vandalization

No evidence was given to support his use of "Muhammed", vandalism... Also, Banaw or "Banao" was a personal name, so it would be properly used as "Lakan Dula Banaw/Banao" if need be used, otherwise, simple Lakan Dula, ALSO, "Lakan Dula" is a title as well as a dynasty, so therefore, there were previous Lakan Dulas before the last one, which IS this one.--LakanBanwa (talk) 00:28, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

If Banao is the personal name, Lakan is the title which is according to Scott means "paramount ruler" and Dula is the surname, the normal and logical sequence would have been Lakan Banao Dula (Title, First Name, Surname). Why are you insisting on the illogical Lakan Dula Banao. We know actually the reason, because by spelling it as Lakan Dula Banao, it will be nearer to the fake Carlos Lacandola of Arayat, the great grandfather of jailed former President Gloria Arroyo.The legitimate Philippine historians will continue to boycott this article, primarily for all the people to see how the paid writers of Gloria Arroyo will manage to somehow link Carlos Lacandola of Arayat with Lakan Dula of Tondo. Why cant you just connect with one of the children of Lakan Dula of Tondo to make your life simple. Afterall, all descendants of Lakan Dula came from the children of Lakan Dula. Maybe say that Carlos Lacandola of Arayat is the grandson of that guy that you invented...the Taclicmoc stuff?

So, this last Lakan Dula which is the subject of this article is not really the Lakan Dula of Tondo? Then, we must have another separate Wikipedia article about the Lakan Dula of Tondo from whom the Lakan Dula High School was named. The distinction would be that this present article is about Carlos Lacandola of Arayat whose one of the daughter is surnamed Reyes and married a guy with a surname Macapagal and gave birth to Juan Macapagal y Reyes, the 10th generation great grandfather of President Gloria Arroyo. The Lakan Dula of Tondo has the following children: Batang Dula, Martin Lakan Dula, Magat Salamat, Felipe Capulong, Dionisio Salonga and Maria Poloin. Take note that Lakan Dula of Tondo has no daughter with a surname Reyes. Finally, the truth has come out. Thanks Wikipedia.112.204.142.121 (talk) 16:26, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

This Lakan Dula specifically was from Tondo, if I'm not mistaken, all the "Lakan Dulas" are from Tondo... Now, if there was another nation with a ruler using "Lakan", but without "Dula" following it, then you have something to investigate there.--LakanBanwa (talk) 10:52, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Attention LakanBanwa, you are mistaken.There is only one Lakan Dula of Tondo. You are blinded by your own agenda. You are mistaken again, there is another ruler in the Philippine history that used the title Lakan. He is Lakan Timamanukum,father of Rajah Alon. Please stop your secret agenda of corrupting Philippine history by eventually linking Lakan Dula of Tondo with Carlos Lacandola of Arayat whose one of the daughters is surnamed Reyes and married a guy with a surname Macapagal and gave birth to Juan Macapagal y Reyes, the 10th generation great grandfather of President Gloria Arroyo. Lakan Dula of Tondo has no daughter with a surname Reyes. Lakan Dula of Tondo is not Carlos Lacandola of Arayat. You are committing a HISTORICAL PLUNDER! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.92.204.226 (talk) 06:42, 11 October 2012 (UTC)