Talk:Eunuch

See also

"See also :
Unix"

...what
Please explain
82.226.253.72 (talk) 17:56, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

The words "Eunuchs" and "Unix" have almost identical pronunciations; presumably the editor wanted to direct readers with poor spelling skills to their desired page. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:50, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Spadone

I've reverted the split of this article into Eunuch (court official) and Spadone. Although there is some evidence for the usage of the Latin term "spadone" in English in a few sources, it does not appear in any of the English dictionaries I have access to. Nor does it appear to be in general use in medicine or general scholarship. I do not believe that there is sufficient evidence for it to be regarded as common usage, or "more correct" than the common English term "eunuch" which is also extensively used in academic and medical sources (as well as being the generally-used English translation for the Latin word spadone). -- The Anome (talk) 13:43, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

In the Bible, the word 'eunuch' is used to refer to homosexual men

In the Bible, Matthew 19:12, the word 'eunuch' is used to refer to homosexual men (usually effeminate men). (Is the Bible Against Homosexuality?)

I removed the above text from the article, as it does not appear to be well-founded. All translations of this passage I can find use the word "eunuch" or an equivalent term, and discussions of the passage do not infer any association with homosexuality. The citation is hardly a scholarly source, and does not provide any evidence for its dubious assertions. ωεαşεζǫįδ^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 21:21, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Added "Eunuchs and the Bible" back

I added the secion "Eunuchs and the Bible" back with additional references, including a Thesis with secondary resources backing up the point.

And in fairness I also included two links to people arguing the opposite point as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jackal242 (talk • contribs) 03:45, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

OK, better than it was, but you're still using a couple of internet essays & claiming this as evidence for what "many believe". & Frankly, those are hardly objective & persuasive essays: they both start from a premise that the Bible is gay-friendly (something that many would disagree with) then go cherry-picking scraps of incidental evidence or areas of ambiguity that support their case.

I think there's a bit of a undue weight problem here, as this really is a fairly obscure viewpoint, & seems rather a tangent from the subject of eunuchs as defined in this article. For now I've left the section in but neutralised the language some. ωεαşεζǫįδ^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 23:58, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

I've also removed your comments from the article intro. A castrated man is the universally accepted definition of the English word eunuch in any dictionary. The fact that the Ancient Greek word for eunuch might have had other subtleties does not change the meaning of the word in English. ωεαşεζǫįδ^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 00:22, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Ah but the root of a word gives it contextual derivation and helps explain core understanding of the word and it's meaning. Perhaps you should read Etymology.  :) I'll see if I can find more references and add a "Etymology of the word" section. User:Jackal242 (talk) Sat Dec 19 12:44:26 EST 2009

What are you talking about? This article already has an etymology section. ωεαşεζǫįδ^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 18:12, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Question: If homosexual men were not included within the biblical category of Eunuchs, what word was used for them? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.127.151.50 (talk) 17:51, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Religious castration in Christianity

I adapted the passage about castration in the bible as this is somewhat taken out of context. The passage in the bible is about celibacy, not specifically about castration. So while I think the passage should stand, it is not saying that Christianity does not condone the practice of castration (enforce by the religion), but accepts people are eunuchs or have been castrated. Also I removed the section in the next paragraph suggesting a link between homosexuality and eunuchs in the bible. The passage in the bible which is reference is about celibacy and has no reference to sexuality. These are questions being asked of Jesus about marriage, divorce, and not being married. There is no reference to being gay, so I would suggest this has been added by someone with an agenda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grahamatwp (talk • contribs) 07:50, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Non-castrated eunuchs

The Digest's acknowledgment of anatomically whole eunuchs does not reflect Christian influence on the meaning of eunuch, since it is pagan, not Christian, legal scholars cited therein (Ulpian, Paulus, Modestinus) who distinguish between "spadones" as a general group (who could in general procreate, get married to women, and institute posthumous heirs) and "castrati" as a specific and in some ways anomalous subset of that group (who could not do those things). This is sufficient evidence that Ringrose is wrong when she says the meaning of eunuch was broadened by Christian thinkers to include anatomically whole eunuchs who refrained from sex with women. She is also wrong to suggest that ancient pagan thinkers saw gender as entirely a matter of genitalia. Aristotle, for instance, saw gender as a capacity determined by the heart, which was only reflected in the physical part needed to put that capacity into effect. See Aristotle, Generation of Animals, Book 4, Chapter 1 (765b - 766b). The physical part (the genitalia) is a necessary condition for one's gender, but it is no more sufficient for determining that a person is male or female than an eye is for determining that a person can see. The physical part can be present without the corresponding capacity to use it for its purpose (in this case: procreation) being necessarily present, and if the capacity is not there, neither is the characteristic. In other words, one can have a penis, but if it won't stand up for any women because of a constitutional factor, and thus cannot be used for procreation, then one is not "male," according to Aristotle's definition, because one lacks the capacity that defines maleness. Faris Malik (talk) 20:49, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

What is the gender of a eunuch

Can someone with the language skills answer a question and add it to the page. In the classical languages, be it the Greek from with this page says 'eunuch' is derived from or Latin, state what gender does the word 'eunuch' has, and what was the rational for the gender classification of the word? I put eunuch in quotes simply to set it apart from the rest of the sentence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.27.111.8 (talk) 04:13, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

The Greek words ευνουχος (gen.: ευνουχου) and σπαδων (gen.: σπαδοντος) both have masculine grammatical gender. The word ευνουχος is in the o-declension, which is mostly full of masculine and neuter nouns but also has female nouns. The -ος ending is most commonly found on masculine nouns in the o-declension, although there are also a number of feminine nouns that end in -ος. But adjectives and definite articles used with ευνουχος are marked with masculine gender, thus confirming that the word itself has masculine grammatical gender. The second word σπαδων is in the consonant declension, which is full of all three genders, but it is also masculine, as we can tell by the -ων ending in the nominative and by observing the forms of articles and adjectives used with it. As a noun referring to a non-female human being, it would be quite unusual for it to have feminine or neuter grammatical gender. I can't think of any examples of nouns for human beings that have neuter gender in Greek or Latin. Keep in mind, the word ανθρωπος ("human being") also has masculine grammatical gender even though it is applied to individuals (such as eunuchs!) or mixed-gender groups to which the ancient Greeks would not have applied the word male (ανηρ, ανδρος). The situation in Latin is analogous for the words eunuchus and spado. Faris Malik (talk) 23:44, 3 February 2011 (UTC) Faris Malik

Paragraph about the reasons for historical castration

There should be a paragraph of the effects of castration & the thought of benefit when fulfilling functions that arent directly obvious, like military commander or courtier. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.116.238.65 (talk) 13:32, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Often castrated...

While many Eunuchs were castrated it is entirely inaccurate to describe them as castrated across the board. Stating that Eunuchs are/were castrated by definition is not historically correct or factual. It is similar to saying "basketball players are black". Many are, but not all. I have repeatedly changed "A eunuch ( /ˈjuːnək/; Greek: "Ευνούχος") is a person born male who is castrated" to "A eunuch ( /ˈjuːnək/; Greek: "Ευνούχος") is a person born male who is often castrated" because it is far more accurate.

What are the consequences of castration?

There ought to be a section on the effects of being made a eunuch. Presumably there are more than just inability to reproduce and having a high singing voice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.151.138.148 (talk) 08:42, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Here's a medical report that says eunuchs live significantly longer than non-castrated males: "We studied the genealogy records of Korean eunuchs and determined the lifespan of 81 eunuchs. The average lifespan of eunuchs was 70.0 ± 1.76 years, which was 14.4–19.1 years longer than the lifespan of non-castrated men of similar socio-economic status. Our study supports the idea that male sex hormones decrease the lifespan of men." The lifespan of Korean eunuchs, Kyung-Jin Min1, Cheol-Koo Lee2 and Han-Nam Park; Current Biology, Volume 22, Issue 18, R792-R793, 25 September 2012. Where would this fit in the article? Raquel_Baranow (talk) 16:15, 24 November 2012 (UTC)