Talk:Arjen Robben

I think this article misses the essence of Robben

As so often on Wikipedia, it's an endless summary of incidents and statistics that lets the reader clueless about context. The reader has to plow through endless facts before the essence of this player slowly emerges.

In Robben's case. This means that when soccer lovers talk about Robben, it means that he is an extraordinary player who never really won it big. It took years and years of endless, painful losses against Spain, Chelsea and so forth before he finally won something that matches the level he plays on. I think Wikipedia shouldn't be afraid to quote analysis more often. Robben's 2-1 goal in the Champions League Final was one of personal triumph, final vindication and a life fulfillment. Both this goal as well as his painful losses are quickly glanced over in this article. Even though Robben himself said that the 'toe of Cassillas' was something that has haunted him for years. --Looskuh (talk) 10:53, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Untitled

Reina's tackle on Ediur (Can't spell his last name) was not violent. He in-fact made contact with the ball. It may have warranted for a yellow at the most but no a red card. Number 8 00:19, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

That's debatable. It was a tackle from behind, which have been outlawed, and he took Eidur's legs in a scissors action. Reina was in trouble for that regardless. SteveO 01:54, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

This article referenced by The Guardian

Well, sort of:

According to Wikipedia, Arjen Robben is an accomplished scuba diver, a model-submarine enthusiast and the owner of a pet parrot named Greg Louganis - diving-related trivia that would be much more amusing if we hadn't just added them to his profile ourselves in a bid to pad out this paragraph. [1] And while this information will probably have been edited out by some anti-Fiver Chelsea-supporting conspiracy theorist by the time you get around to checking it and adding more of your own, one thing that isn't going to disappear as quickly is the stench of hypocrisy currently emanating from Stamford Bridge. [2]

(Disclaimer: I do not, nor have I ever, supported Chelsea, except when they play Man United. — sjorford++ 14:20, 6 July 2006 (UTC))

do you watch football mate reinas tackle coulda been a red on its own from behind reckless and a lundge he hit robben in the face it was a red card offence if it wasnt the fa would have ricinded the card and he didnt get it ricinded so there you go!

I suppose The Guardian were unlucky to get information from this page when it was vandalised. Though it's hard to understand how the heck this article got such heavy vandalism on 6 July last year (what the hell?), fortunately an admin decided on semiprotection at the end of that day. Anyway,I'm active now and I'm taking care of this article, whoever wants to harm the page, I'LL MAKE THEM PAY. (DAMN YOU, VANDALS) S. Miyano 16:04, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Height there is now way in hell that arjen robben is 6ft!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.191.224.106 (talk) 13:44, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

The height is definitely wrong. He is not 6'. Look at the picture of him standing next to van persie, that would. Make van Perdue 7' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.151.7.208 (talk) 10:42, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

GA Review

(Only my second GAReview, so please be kind if I screw up something major.)

Height - there is now way in hell that arjen robben is 6ft!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.191.224.106 (talk) 13:46, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

This article is very well written, with some sourcing flaws that I think can be easily corrected (which means I'm putting it on GA Hold for now). First, some of the links in the references seem broken - specifically, refs 4 and 5 take me to the wrong places on Chelsea FC's site, apparently. Ref 9 needs a visible name of the source. Second, there are many paragraphs that have no citations. In an article of this size, one should cite at least each paragraph with the sources used for that paragraph.

Aside from that, I have some suggestions for improvement not necessary for GA but perhaps helpful to take the article to the next level:

• Some possible Wikilinks (jargon and otherwise): "Netherlands", "Holland", "Dutch Talent of the Year", "English Premier League", "front three", "withdrawn forward", "target man", "cross", "equaliser", "chess", "challenge".

I've further wikilinked some of the phrases, not all of them so as not to overlink the article.Arfan 18:00, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

• "FC Groningen" seems to be punctuated differently in a couple of places.

I think it's fixed now .Arfan 18:00, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

• 'out and out', 'violent behaviour', 'deserved an Oscar' - use double quotes.

Done. Arfan 18:00, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

• "Dutch winger has had limited chances to shine in a new look Chelsea squad", "This has often seen Robben on the bench and given little time to make an impression." - seems non-NPOV, reword or attribute as opinion?

Reworded. Please tell me if you still think it's POV though Arfan 18:00, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

• First mention of "Man of the match" - capitalize "match".

Done. Arfan 18:00, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

- Merzbow 06:41, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

refs #4,5,9 and the broken links to chelsea website are fixed. I've also added a few more sources for some paragraphs. Arfan 18:00, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Getting close. However, still some issues:

• I noticed you added a "Quotes" section, which is now deprecated here: WP:LAYOUT#Quotations. Could you remove it per the guideline? (Sorry).
• "After the absence of Joe Cole due to knee injury,[1] Robben was then recognised as an important player for Chelsea in the injury-enforced with his ability to bring the ball down the flanks at speed essential in a team not especially endowed with great dribblers." - Do you have a source for the opinions expressed in this sentence? Also, I don't understand what "in the injury-enforced means", can you clarify the sentence?
• "Robben's skill in ball control and technical footwork made him a valuable player, and he was quickly signed by local club F.C. Groningen." - could use source
• "The rest of his season with PSV was disappointing. He injured his hamstring twice and missed several games. At the end of the 2003-04 season, Robben tallied 23 appearances and 6 goals." - also needs source
• All ref tags should start directly after punctuation per MoS, and there shouldn't be any spaces between the punctuation and the tag. There are a few refs that violate this.
• "In addition to being a talented football player, Robben is quite adept at chess." - source?

- Merzbow 03:02, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

"Quotes" section and the sentence "In addition to being a talented football player, Robben is quite adept at chess." removed (I couldn't find RS). Sources added for the others. As for the "injury-enforced" phrase, it's my mistake when I edited this sentence at some point earlier. It is now fixed, so are the <ref> tags. Arfan 04:53, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

• Comment: might it be useful to provide references for the part which says he was shortlisted for so and so award and given so and so award (in the 2004-05 section)? Chensiyuan 05:11, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I've added sources for the "player of the month" award and the short list for "PFA Young player of the year". Thank you for your advice and your kind help with the article, Chen Siyuan! Arfan 06:54, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the changes (I made a couple of very minor improvements myself). There are still two or three sentences and at least one paragraph that don't have trailing references, but since it's non-controversial material and the vast majority of the article is now referenced properly I'll pass GA. Congrats. - Merzbow 06:14, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Great. Thank you very much for giving me guidance on how to improve the article, and for passing it! =) Arfan 06:54, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Speculation

Is it right that an encyclopedia, as wikipedia is, should have speculation from newspapers sources such as the Daily Mail and the Sun? Robben's supposed move to Real Madrid hasn't happened yet, so I don't think its really worthy of getting in the article. Any objections in getting it deleted? --alexdeangelis86 23:57, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

None from me, Wikipedia is not the place for media speculation. In any case, the current paragraph completely contradicts itself, suggesting that he is both on his way to Madrid and staying at Chelsea. SteveO 14:56, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation

I've heard a few different pronunciations of his name. Can an authority on this subject add either a phonetic equivalent or the IPA equivalent to the lead paragraph? Thanks. VincentValentine29 (talk) 21:45, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Being Dutch, I can try to explain it. The R is a throated rolling R as in [ˌrɔtərˈdɑm] (Rotterdam). BBE as in BElfast. And then an N. It's actually not that hard ;). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Looskuh (talk • contribs) 10:44, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Selfish

He is famous for being selfish on the pitch. Google search with term "robben selfish" will answer all 83.100.155.229 (talk) 08:49, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

That's merely an opinion not a fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bulkroosh (talk • contribs) 12:50, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

then why not say He has been often criticised for being selfish on the pitch or something like that. We have to include as much as we can in a player's article, right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.168.194.59 (talk) 16:09, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Things like this would probably need to be included in "playing style" and need more than one reliable source Spiderone (talk) 16:11, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

New Picture

Shouldn't this picture be changed, since Robben now plays for Real Madrid? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.188.105.227 (talk) 16:37, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

No, the picture is meant to show the person in question in general so it dosent need to be changed everytime a soccer/football player changes club --> Halmstad, Talk:Halmstad 18:41, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok but what is the point of an outdated picture when there are thousands others? Anyway he looks very different now, and it is logical to keep this page up to date, including recent pictures not ones taken 5 years ago. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.188.105.227 (talk) 20:54, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

The reason is that we only use free images, not copyrighted ones with all rights reserved. It's hard to find Creative Commons images for players most of the time. JACOPLANE • 2008-06-25 12:52

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Arjen Robben/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

Hi, I am reviewing this article as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force in an effort to ensure all listed Good articles continue to meet the Good article criteria. In reviewing the article, I have found there are a number of issues that need to be addressed. As many sports related GAs are unmaintained and not improved, I will be providing only a cursory review to begin with. This review will be placed on the talk page and I will notify the wikiprojects involved (not necessarily at the same time). The article will then have seven days from the day of notification for someone to come forward and start making the suggested changes and taking responsibility for the article here. If someone comes forward, I will supply a more detailed review, if someone does not then the article will be delisted. If someone is working on the article then, within reason, there will be no time limit in which the changes have to be made.--Jackyd101 (talk) 00:17, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

• It is reasonably well written.

  a (prose): b (MoS):

The prose is OK, maybe a 6/10 average.

That doesn't give any clues as to how it needs improving, do you have any specific examples? Oldelpaso (talk) 09:27, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Also, what are the MoS problems that lead you to regard that criterion as a fail? Oldelpaso (talk) 09:28, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Good to see someone is willing to take this on. The article is not bad, and in fact I think I may have put the wrong symbol in these boxes and should have inserted pass symbols. However, since we are here, the first thing that springs to mind is that the lead is too short and doesn't properly introduce the article. It should be a clear summary of his career to date with perhaps some personal information included. As mentioned below, personal life (and early life) are too short and should be developed further. I will run through the article at some point in the next few days and point out any further problems, although these are the major ones. Regards--Jackyd101 (talk) 18:07, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Off the pitch, Robben has quite a low profile. He's not a David Beckham showbiz type. It is highly likely that there is very little information about his personal life in the public domain. Oldelpaso (talk) 20:47, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

See below for suggestions of how to properly develop this section. As examples, some of the following information may be helpful (although remember WP:RS) [3] [4] [5] [www.worldcuplatest.com/holland-boss-van-basten-says-no-dispute--3977.html] [6] --Jackyd101 (talk) 18:34, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

(de-indent) That's exactly it - I wouldn't class any of those sources as reliable, apart from the Independent, but that ref doesn't discuss his personal life. Goal.com comes closest but FAC discussions on sourcing have come to the conclusion that it should only be used for straightforward uncontroversial information. If this is a dealbreaker then I'll have to abandon my attempts to keep it at GA. My familiarity with Robben is only as a general football fan. To get anything reliable for personal life I'm pretty sure I'd need sources in Dutch, which I don't speak. Oldelpaso (talk) 07:54, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I see. I think we can leave this issue until the outcome of the discussion is determined at the GA talk page. If personal life sections are given a high importance then the article may ultimately fail, if not then it should be fine. On other matters, good work on the lead. I notice that two of the references are improperly formatted and could be tided up. I will run through the article again today to look for any additional problems.--Jackyd101 (talk) 08:26, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

• It is factually accurate and verifiable.

  a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

Could be a wider use of references: there are several totally unreferenced paragraphs.

• It is broad in its coverage.

  a (major aspects): b (focused):

Personal life section is too short and poorly written.

• It follows the neutral point of view policy.

  a (fair representation): b (all significant views):

• It is stable.

  

• It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.

  a (tagged and captioned): b (lack of images does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):

• Overall:

  a Pass/Fail:

OK, in summary, I am still very unhappy about the poor state of the personal life section. However, as the barest of are minimums I will pass it for now (although I expect that in the future it will have to be expanded or the article will face delisting). In particular, I'd expect to see more about advertisements he has appeared in and products he has endorsed.--Jackyd101 (talk) 20:34, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Personal life

In order for an article on a sports person to qualify for GA, it must contain information on their life outside sports (per this discussion). This can be incorporated into the article in a number of ways, of which the most common (but by no means the only) is to provide two sections. One immediately under the introduction that describes the person's early life prior to their sporting career, and a second after their career to date is described, that covers non-sporting information during their career (and possibly afterwards). These sections should be formed of at least one (and preferably more) complete paragraphs of several sentences, written in readable prose and properly referenced to reliable sources. A good example of this can be seen at Brian Urlacher.

For some sports people (e.g. David Beckham), their life outside of their sporting career is a significant part of their notability: these are special cases which have to be dealt with individually. However, the non-sporting life of all sports persons, alive or dead, is relevant and important to their article - these are biographies, not descriptions solely of their sporting achievements.

Examples of what to include (this list is by no means exhaustive, neither is it a checklist. Not all of this information has to be included, just anything that applies to the person in question):

• In early life, it would be useful to describe the date and place of their birth, their parentage and family background, their experiences growing up and the places in which they grew up, schools they attended, youth teams they played for, and any significant events in their lives that affected them.
• Personal life should always include information on their family: wife and children. Not the kind of information that would violate BLP (particularly where it applies to children: we shouldn't be told where they go to school for example!) but enough so that we can understand the family of the article's subject. Similarly, many contemporary sports people are famous for relationships that do not end in marriage: relationship speculation often appears in the media and if significant enough can appear in the article.
• Negative stuff: drug problems (both sporting and recreational), illegal activities (including fighting and driving offences), gambling problems, extra-martial affairs, becoming victims of robbery or attack, racist abuse (both from and against) and other possibly unsavoury incidents (this is not to suggest that this particular sports person has done any of these things, this is a guide for sports people in general). No Original Research please! All allegations must have appeared in the mainstream media before they can appear here and must be appropriately cited to a reliable source. Significant unproven or unfounded allegations should also be included: see Tony Parker for an example of how these should be dealt with.
• Positive stuff: many sports personalities do charity work - this is not always widely published, but can appear on club websites and similar. Sports people are often an advocates for, supporters of or opponents of charities, advocacy groups or social and political movements: this applies both to issues within sports (cheating, drugs etc.) and outside (disease, gang violence, drugs etc.) and is usually an interesting insight into a person's character.
• Most sports people have other forms of income. This can take the form of a second (or sometimes a "day") job (e.g. Bobby Charlton was once an electrical fitter and Rory Underwood a fighter pilot). Many sports people have investments in businesses, shares and products, which, if reported, are often significant aspects of their lives outside sport. Likewise, their endorsements, advertisements and sponsors are important: what products do/have they endorsed, what advertisments have they appeared in and in which media. In addition, information about any books they have published, TV appearances made and any work as newspaper or blog correspondants are important additions.
• Sports persons can also appear in the media for a range of reasons that have noting to do with the above: car crashes, housing problems and professional feuds are among the many issues that may have made the news and might merit inclusion.

As mentioned, this list is far from exhaustive and neither is everything on it essential: its more a guide providing ideas for research into the person's life outside sports. For any contemporary or recent sports person, google should provide enough to develop a basic section and for older ones, news articles and books can give plenty of information about their personal lives.

Some sports people are known for a determination to keep their private life private and it may be that very little information can be found about them. In such cases, there will be sources discussing their reluctance to release details about their private life and these can be used as sources in a paragraph talking about their efforts to avoid publicity.--Jackyd101 (talk) 18:34, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I must also add that the Real Madrid section needs a bit of expansion especially since he's likely to leave soon Spiderone 15:05, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Not only selfish but famous for falling over. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.171.254.98 (talk) 10:18, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

bayern

stop the bayern-munich-shit. he is no player of bayern munich (yet). if he is feel free to update. reference: http://www.fcbayern.t-home.de/de/aktuell/news/2009/20539.php Teh luke (talk) 19:25, 27 August 2009 (UTC) addition: http://www.fcbayern.t-home.de/en/news/news/2009/20542.php —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.15.144.193 (talk) 20:15, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Now he is player of Bayern Munich http://www.fcbayern.t-home.de/en/news/news/2009/20559.php --Yoda1893 (talk) 11:20, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

dont know how to edit this properly but it says he scored 50 goals for groningen when he blatently didnt, maybe it means he played 50 games in al competitions i dont know? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.107.63.122 (talk) 12:36, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism at Fifa 2010 worldcup

Arjen Robben played the whole 120 minutes of Holland's (or the 'Netherland's' if you're pretentious or Brian Glanville or both) 1-0 World Cup Final defeat to Spain. He missed a glorious chance just after the hour mark when one-one-one with Iker Casillas. Just as Robben was about to shoot, the light from the floodlights reflected onto his bald head, then bounced onto the ball, and then bounced back into his eyes thereby blinding him momentarily, which in turn caused him to hit the ball against Casillas's trailing leg.

This is just plain ridiculous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BinzerFulgrim (talk • contribs) 22:37, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Looking rather older than he is

Would it be unencyclopedic to point out that whenever Robben is mentioned in a light hearted context, there's always a mention of the fact that he looks like he's closer to 50 than 27? I'm sure I can find quite a few sources which do this, though not necessarily sources which say that this is done (if that makes sense).86.148.214.242 (talk) 20:20, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Looks a lot more like 47 or even 57 than 27. However he is a famous and rich football player, so has has something going for him.

Aston villa?

Since when he plays for Aston Villa? NEVER! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.86.246.158 (talk) 12:39, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

This was a vandal edit and has been corrected. --Jaellee (talk) 12:49, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Typo

I can not edit the article, but the word "substititue" doesn't exist. --Lord Bumbury (talk) 08:16, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Some updates

This article needs update. He is making headlines all around today for scoring the winning goal to help Bayern Munich becoming the champion of Europe! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.254.22.46 (talk) 21:11, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 25 May 2013

Style of play ... The majority if his goals follow this pattern.

Replace: if -> of

JuergenWeigert (talk) 22:19, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

 Done --Jaellee (talk) 22:29, 25 May 2013 (UTC)