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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Jyp25 (talk | contribs) at 11:44, 10 October 2013 (→‎Schuylkill Navy Page: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.


Welcome to my talk page, if you want to start a new topic, then click here please! Generally I will reply here, so please come back to check. If I posted something in your talk page you don't have to answer here or post a talkback template. I'll check your talk page for answer.

Archives:
Talk about images
Archive 1 8/2006 - 7/2008
Archive 2 8/2008 - 6/2009
Archive 3 7/2009 - 12/2009
Archive 4 1/2009 - 8/2010
Archive 5 9/2010 - 12/2010
Archive 6 1/2011 - 5/2011
Archive 7 6/2011 - 2/2012
Archive 8 3/2012 - 8/2012
Archive 9 9/2012 - 2/2013

New checkwiki page.

New Checkwiki.... Information is located here. Could you take a look and report and bugs you find... also any suggestions, ideas for new bug reports, current bug reports that should be removed or anything else you can think. I'm sending a message to Meno25, GoingBatty, NicoV and Tim Landscheidt. If you can think of anybody else, could you send them a message. -- -Bgwhite (talk) 06:17, 27 July 2013‎ (UTC)[reply]

CHECKWIKI September 2013

Bgwhite rev 9489. I wonder how many crazy characters are still out there. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:02, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Crazy Characters? That would be two. You and me.
× as in Swimming at the 1967 Pan American Games – Men's 4 × 100 metre freestyle relay Bgwhite (talk) 07:05, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Bgwhite How we deal with this guy? Replace with space? With something else? -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:07, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It is pronounced "by" in this context. However, some people like to replace it with an x. I've oscillated, but currently I'm in the x camp. Bgwhite (talk) 07:11, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Bgwhite rev 9490 replaces the multiplication sign with x letter but please update SORTKEY to refer to the multiplication sign as an unwanted symbol. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:13, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

AWB - Defaultsort:

Mediawiki bug. It won't replace İ with I. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:05, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Bgwhite (talk) 05:49, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No idea why these are not fixed. A different and symbol? Invisible characters? -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:05, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Bgwhite we don't fix pages that have includeonly/noinclude tags. -- Magioladitis (talk) 22:10, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

ISBNs
I'm having some fun with ISBN for checkwiki. I'm find some "fun" cases of bad ISBNs. Let see if you find the problem with ISBN 978-0‐307‐33598‐2. Bgwhite (talk) 22:02, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Bgwhite it seems to be a valid ISBN-13 number unless I am losing something. -- Magioladitis (talk) 04:37, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The answer is: There are no dashes, it contains dash variants. I just had a dash in the regex, so the ISBN came out as 978. Curse of the dashes hits another checkwiki error. Bgwhite (talk) 05:25, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Bgwhite WOW. This goes to the Fall of Fame. -- Magioladitis (talk) 05:31, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The thing that made it obvious to me that there was something wrong with ISBN 978-0‐307‐33598‐2 was that it wasn't a bluelink. Then I cheated and pasted it into http://rishida.net/tools/conversion/ and found that the first dash was a U+002D hyphen-minus, which is valid, but that the other three were U+2010 hyphen - not valid. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:33, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Another checkwiki javascript fixer
de:Benutzer:PerfektesChaos/js/WikiSyntaxTextMod/usage/Syntaxkorrektur. Also has an English version.

If there is something AWB doesn't do let's steal it. -- Magioladitis (talk) 06:18, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • #69

The new ISBN code for checkwiki has landed. Error #69 is now catching more cases. The two main types are ISBN: 978-1111111111 and ISBN-978-1111111111. It won't blue link in these cases. I can add a regex to fix them, but it would be nice to get it in the AWB code. Checkwiki now catches ISBN-10, ISBN 10, ISBN: 10, ISBN-978 and ISBN: Bgwhite (talk) 06:30, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The reason for checkwiki

See User talk:Drmies#Worst article in Wikipedia. It's articles like this why we need checkwiki, plus it gave me the biggest laugh. It made hunting down stray brackets worth it today. Normally, this article would be done by the bot, but I'm hand doing the daily #86 errors. Bgwhite (talk) 05:46, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mysterious cleanup

Hi, what's with this edit? --Redrose64 (talk) 09:24, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Redrose64 What I did is completely wrong. I reverted it. -- Magioladitis (talk) 11:21, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
rev 9492 to avoid subtititung PAGENAME in sandbox versions of templates. -- Magioladitis (talk) 13:35, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Evangelos Katsioulis

Could you take a look at this article. It's about a Greek person with a high IQ. Article says he lived in your neck of the woods. I noticed the refs look good from just looking at the article, but they link to YouTube and his own sites. My favourite, is http://www.aaaa.gr/αναδειξη/άνθρωποι/ευάγγελος-κατσιούλης. That is his company's site and it says he is the founder of alot those IQ places that gave him a high IQ. My favourite line, "The Greek who has 100 times higher IQ than Bush". So, Katsioulis is as smart as a γύρος?

Turn off javascript when you visit the reference pages. You have to press an X, which runs a javascript that appears to post your IP to ratings site that show you gave a high rating to his site. Who knows what else it does. Bgwhite (talk) 06:48, 19 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

His Facebook page states that "[English Wikipedia]: Evangelos' page is now completed. You are welcome to offer your comments". Does this suggest he wrote the article by himself? -- Magioladitis (talk) 06:59, 19 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Bgwhite All references to Greek sites (NewsBeast.gr, Newsbomb.gr, etc.) are of the lowest quality. I don't trust any of these sites. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:01, 19 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Greek Wikipedia discusses deletion. Page created on September 3 and expanded significantly the last 2 days. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:08, 19 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The elwiki article is up for deletion. You should put in your vote. If the article is deleted, I'll nominate the English one. Looks like most of it was updated in the past few days. Bgwhite (talk) 07:14, 19 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yobot problems

Are you responsible for Yobot? It makes unwelcome changes to text I have written, and then claims the changes as "error fixes". In particular when I cite sources, if there are several relating to one sub-topic I list them in order of importance/relevance/contribution. Yobot has altered them all more than once to be in numerical order. It would be helpful if you could modify it to prevent this behaviour, and certainly not to attribute them to "errors". Afterbrunel (talk) 14:23, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Afterbrunel. Can you please write me in which page(s) the problems occurred so I can take a look? -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:39, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
For example LSWR Suburban Lines Afterbrunel (talk) 14:51, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)It so happens that on my watchlist I have this talk page and also Afterbrunel's current project. I'm willing to bet it was this edit. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:52, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I asked Rjwilmsi if it is possible to make ref reordering optional. -- Magioladitis (talk) 19:53, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I see you have run Yobot again since my inquiry above. I don't wish to start any regrettable edit wars, but it would be courteous if you hold off from doing this until you have got it working in a way that does not conflict with the legitimate preferences of other editors. Afterbrunel (talk) 14:03, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
And yet once more, after the above. Afterbrunel (talk) 19:38, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Adding blank lines between headings

Hi Magoladitis, you might remember that we've discussed before the issue of AWB adding blank lines between headings and subheadings, which is filling up the watchlists and making edit mode awkward on small screens. I asked if you would remove that from AWB and you pointed to the MoS, where it said: "Include one blank line above the heading ..." You took that to mean that a blank line has to be included above every subheading even if the only thing above it is another heading. I've therefore edited that section to say:

Include one blank line above the heading (where the heading is preceded by text, an image, table or other coding, except for anchor tags), and optionally one blank line below it, for readability in the edit window. (Only two or more consecutive blank lines will add more white space in the public appearance of the page.) There is no need to include a blank line between headings and subheadings.

I did that after gaining consensus here. Would you remove this instruction from AWB now? Just to be clear, what I'm hoping to avoid is AWB making edits that do this (and often little else):

==Level 1==

===Level 2===

====Level 3====

Hoping the MoS change will do the trick. Many thanks, SlimVirgin (talk) 20:14, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

SlimVirgin thanks for contacting and all the great efford you do to resolve this annoying issue. I have mentioned the problem in AWB's page here but unfortunately the comment was archived without any comments. I'll revive the discussion after you last actions and the new consensus formed. Thanks again. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:04, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There was no consensus formed. Only SlimVirgin made comment on the direct proposal and two others had questions. Magioladitis, I or anybody else from the AWB community was not invited.
If any AWB use is only making the above edits, it is illegal as it only changes blank space. Bgwhite (talk) 07:25, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That's not correct, Bg. Others made suggestions which I incorporated into the edit. The MoS talk page is very active. If you propose something that people object to, they do so within a nanosecond of it hitting the page. I waited six days before making the edit and there were no objections. When that original edit was made to the MoS it's almost certain that no one intended it to mean that blank lines had to be added between headings. It's just that it wasn't spelled out, but it is now.
I know that people ought not to use AWB to make only edits that make no difference, but they do. Or they use it to make one edit that makes a difference (e.g. fixing a typo) and AWB adds blank lines at the same time, e.g. this edit changed "see" to "further" (which makes no difference in read mode), and added 11 blank lines between headings, and this edit, fixed a typo and added 11 blank lines.
Magioladitis agreed a few weeks ago to remove the change from "see" to "further" from AWB, which reduced the number of these kinds of edits, so if he will also remove blank lines between headings, it will be another helpful step. SlimVirgin (talk) 16:33, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I ask for comments here: Wikipedia_talk:AutoWikiBrowser#AWB_vs_AutoEd_fight_over_newline_.28cont..29. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:42, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The blank lines are annoying and AWB should not implement them. I personally remove such wasted space when it makes sense in an article (such as your example with headings stacked directly on top of each other) and I am making another edit anyway. It's frustrating to learn that AWB apparently changes it all back again the next time the page is edited. There's a difference between making something readable (the purpose of extra space) and making it difficult to navigate (which happens on smaller screens with all the extra spaces). Follow the updated MOS and please make AWB compliant. Another option would be to make it a selectable option so that, if needed, the extra spacing could be added on a page that needs the cleanup, but that would run contrary to MOS, so what's the point? —Willscrlt ( Talk | com | b:en | meta ) 23:19, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Regardlessly, inserting blank lines between an {{anchor}} and its ==Heading== is a bug. —Sladen (talk) 23:29, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sladen This is not the place or discussion to bring this up. Either report it at WP:AWB's talk page or bug page. Bgwhite (talk) 07:31, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Bgwhite; This shows that the code has a bug somewhere; and therefore (regardless of MOS debates) it should be disabled and not used at this point. Perhaps that will solve the issue in the short-term. —Sladen (talk) 08:45, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
So SlimVirgin's arguments is it fill up his watchlist, which this will not help. Other edits are being made when blank lines between headers are added. Willscrlt's argument is it is a waste of space. I often have to increase "screen size" so I can read what is on the screen. So I deal with "smaller screens". Having a blank line between headers *does* help reading and *does* help my accessibility in noticing the multiple headings. SlimVirgin, please don't assume what others meant years ago. We already have enough politicians in the U.S. running around telling us what the constitution actually means. My favourite so far is my state's idiot Senator is opposed to Obamacare because healthcare isn't mentioned in the constitution. Bgwhite (talk) 07:44, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

BG, if you look at the history of that MoS sentence, it read until quite recently (e.g. November 2010): "A blank line below the heading is optional; but do include one blank line above the heading, for readability in the edit window." If they had been referring to blank lines between headings, they wouldn't have written it that way because it would have been a contradiction (because a blank line between headings is both above and below a heading). I think it's clear that no one intended the MoS to recommend that headings be separated by blank lines from each other and from their anchor tags.

If you're writing or copy-editing on a small screen (adding or moving text), these extra blank lines are a nuisance, especially if there are a lot of them, because they mean there is less text on the screen. So editors remove them, only for the next AWB edit to add them again. Rinse and repeat. SlimVirgin (talk) 16:11, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't taken sides yet; but edits like this and this are clear violations of WP:AWB#Rules of use item 4: both of those carry out exactly one action, to insert an utterly unimportant blank line between a level 2 heading and a level 3. It's not as if you're working from an old data dump, believing that you're fixing some other problem that has, in fact, been fixed since the preparation of that dump - unless that data dump is more than 22 months old, which is when one of those pages was last edited (the other was 17 months ago). --Redrose64 (talk) 19:54, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Redrose64. My mistake. I forgot to add "skip if no replacement". I am running against an editor's edits to fix a problem that occurred. Check User_talk:Billy_Hathorn#Change_of_fonts.3F. -- Magioladitis (talk) 20:00, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Redrose64 I apologise again. If you notice in the last 1 hour (maybe more) I ve been multitasking between 3 different things to satisfy anyone. -- Magioladitis (talk) 20:22, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Magioladitis, given the current conversation this seems provocative (Yobot making edits that only add blank lines between headings, when you or BG recently said this never happens). Can you please remove the "add a blank line between headings" rule from AWB? SlimVirgin (talk) 21:26, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think BG said that there is no consensus to remove blank line between headings. I am confused here. -- Magioladitis (talk) 22:19, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Btw, I wrote above it was a temporary malfunction. -- Magioladitis (talk) 22:22, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(ec) There is no consensus to add blank lines between headings. The MoS now makes clear that there is no need for it. (Also, AWB shouldn't be used to make inconsequential edits: a separate issue, but relevant here.) In addition, AWB and all our style rules say that when you're asked to stop changing a style, you wait to gain consensus before continuing. So for all these reasons, I hope you won't continue to do it. When you add up all these inconsequential edits, they really do burden the watchlists, M, which is why people keep raising it with you. SlimVirgin (talk) 22:27, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
SlimVirgin, don't put words in my mouth. I said, "If any AWB use is only making the above edits, it is illegal as it only changes blank space". There is consensus to add blank lines between headings. It states it in MOS... ie add a blank line above headings. It doesn't say add a blank line unless. Again, don't try to think what the meant, use what is written. There is no consensus to remove code that adds a blank line between headings. You are the only one who voiced yes at the MOS talk page and I'm the only one to voice no. Whatever happens, it will not reduce changes to your watchlist. Also, the next release of AWB won't happen for months, so stop asking for code to be removed. Bgwhite (talk) 06:21, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I fixed the anchor/heading problem and one more problem with spacing. Moreover, I requested for a generic anchor placement fix. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:30, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Zizhu chuangxin (Wikipage)

Hello,

Thank you for your recent visit to 'Zizhu chuangxin' (Wikipedia). It is an important topic in China innovation and development. I will keep it update from time to time.

Regards, KSR PhD Researcher University of Manchester — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.88.70.11 (talk) 08:32, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Unicode "character search"

de:Benutzer_Diskussion:TMg/characterSearch.js Bgwhite (talk) 06:22, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Move en masse

Hi Magioladitis,

How can I move large numbers of pages? I'm an administrator on Hindi Wikipedia. I've been requested (after the consensus) to move some 200+ subtemplates to new titles, e.g. साँचा:उपपरमाण्विक कण/कड़ी/charmed sigma0 to साँचा:अपरमाणविक कण/कड़ी/charmed sigma0 (replacing उपपरमाण्विक with अपरमाणविक). I'm creating list by using "[t]ransclusions on page" i.e. साँचा:उपपरमाण्विक कण, but no idea what to do next. I'm only aware of "Move" button of "Start" tab. I'd appreciate your help. Thanks and regards. — Bill william comptonTalk 12:16, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Magioladitis, I'm waiting for your response. — Bill william comptonTalk 17:13, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
— Bill william compton Hi. I don't know. I face the same problem. I was thinking to use WP:AWB just to help me browse between pages. -- Magioladitis (talk) 11:05, 3 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yobot mess-up

this edit by Yobot completely messed up date of birth...it put it inside "language Arabic"...therefor reading it right -->left. So now Mujir al-Din was born in 1522 and died in 1456? Please undo this, thanks, Huldra (talk) 18:04, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that was entirely Yobot's fault, it's a known problem since it's not clear if the numeric part is rtl or ltr. The way to fix it is with a ‎ like I did here. Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 01:05, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I see you have fixed it; thanks! Huldra (talk) 20:00, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Objectionable edit

I see you have altered the page LSWR suburban lines by adding a blank line between main headings and the first sub-heading. I have spent some time removing these previously, as I believe they are superfluous. I fully accept that this is a matter of opinion, but it would have been courteous to discuss the matter rather than just doing it, which is rude. Afterbrunel (talk) 06:36, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Afterbrunel, WP:MOSHEAD says that every header should have a blank line above it. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:57, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No it doesn't. It says "Include one blank line above the heading (where the heading is preceded by text, an image, table or other coding, except for anchor tags)". In the situation we are discussing, there is no text preceding the heading, only a higher-level heading. Afterbrunel (talk) 09:31, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Afterbrunel This change happened some days ago and I think it is still disputed. -- Magioladitis (talk) 10:04, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The edit in question is this one, made at a time when the practice of inserting blank lines between headings was already provoking adverse comment. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:06, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Redrose64 I was the first to ask SlimVirgin to start a discussion at the Manual of Style talk page. I did not participate there but I see that there was not enough discussion in order to change the Manual of Style. Do you think we have a community consensus for the new rules. Everyone: I have no opinion in either way and I already have reported that AWB conflicts AutoEd. The problem is more visible in my edits because I edit a lot but I assume the problem is wider. I would not like to make a new set of rules for AWB and then have a new wave of complains coming from the other direction. I hope I am clear on that. I don't like edit warring. I don't like trivial edits. -- Magioladitis (talk) 12:20, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

1995 Alaska Boeing E-3 Sentry accident

Opps, sorry about that it wasnt clear in the diff and I just noticed the cat was removed, I will pay more attention next time. MilborneOne (talk) 13:02, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The "sortkey" problem--still puzzled

Hello! We just had a brief exchange on the Yobot talk page. The problem seems to be solved, in which case this is probably academic. But for my own enlightenment (and possibly your information in managing Yobot), let me follow up here. You remember, we said:

I've just discovered that I've removed a sortkey for a category default sort several times, and it's always been put back almost immediately by Yobot. It's for the article Maria Theresa of Austria (1801–1855). It keeps sorting it under Austria. It should simply be sorted straight, i.e. under Maria, in most if not all of its categories. Uporządnicki (talk) 00:56, 30 September 2013 (UTC)


Uporządnicki thanks for the report. Plastikspork fixed the problem already. The problem was the dash in the sortkey. Dash is considered to be a special symbol and not allowed in sortkeys. Now sortkey matches the correct categorisation and uses minus instead of dash. -- Magioladitis (talk) 04:53, 30 September 2013 (UTC)


To begin with, I was inaccurate when I said the point I was fixing was a Sortkey. It was actually a Defaultsort statement. But still, while what you say about dashes in Sortkeys might be correct for Defaultsort statements as well, that can't have been the problem here. What I did several times (and I did it over time, without realizing I was making exactly the same change) was to REMOVE a Defaultsort statement altogether. None of the categories themselves had Sortkeys, in the sense of a pipe trick to re-order the heading in a particular category. So--no Sortkeys at all, no Defaultsort statements: no problem with dashes in any Sortkeys or Defaultsort statements. So I'm a little puzzled as to why Yobot seemed to want to put back the Defaultsort statement.

I do see what Plastikspork has done; he has added as a Defaultsort the title of the article as it is. And I'm puzzled that it's necessary to add what is essentially a superfluous Defaultsort to keep the bot from adding an unsuitable one. Uporządnicki (talk) 13:18, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Uporządnicki thanks for sharing. Plastikspork did not add a Defaultsort the title of the article as it is. The mdash in the title is changed to a minus symbol in the DEFAULTSORT. Manual if Style reads that we should use mdash for time periods in page title and WP:SORTKEY reads that we should use minus instead of mdash in DEFAULTSORT/sortkey. -- Magioladitis (talk) 13:24, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
OK, but why the Defaultsort at all?? It's not necessary. The point about the dash or minus sign aside, it ALPHABETIZES the article according to its title as it is. I kept removing a different Defaultsort, one that placed the article in an entirely inappropriate place in the categories. As I said a moment ago--if there's no Defaultsort statement, there can't be a problem with a dash in a Defaultsort statement. What I'm wondering is, why did Yobot keep adding one. Uporządnicki (talk) 13:31, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There is always the chance that it affects the place the page appears in the existing categories if new pages with similar title are created in the future. We just want to be on the safe side. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:01, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I seem to be unable to communicate my main question--which is, why was Yobot adding a Defaultsort when there wasn't one? I was told that it was because there was a dash instead of a minus sign in the Defaultsort (or Sortkey), and that was a problem. But there can't have been because there WAS NO DEFAULTSORT (or Sortkey).
And my question having been put AGAIN (as simply as I know how to do), I do have a theory--but the theory is based on a big supposition, and I have no idea if that supposition is true or not. I removed all semblance of Defaultsort or Sortkey; and I was told that that was a problem because of a non-existent error in a non-existent Defaultsort or Sortkey. OK. Perhaps if there's no Defaultsort, Wikipedia uses the title of the article itself as kind of a "virtual Defaultsort." That's the huge supposition. From there, one might suppose that the article title--in fine format for an article title--is problematic for a Defaultsort. So Yobot constructed a new Defaultsort--reversing last and first names where there was no last name to begin with.

As I was sitting in my chair,
I knew the bottom wasn't there,
nor legs nor back, but I just SAT,
ignoring little things like that! Uporządnicki (talk) 18:18, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

(talk page stalker) In the absence of an explicit sortkey on an individual category, the sortkey set by {{DEFAULTSORT:}} is used. If that is also absent, the page title is used as the sort key. This is fine for articles whose names contain everyday characters (letters, numbers, spaces, a few punctuation marks such as the hyphen-minus), like Florida, where we normally want it sorting under F.
But when the title contains some of the more obscure characters, such as the en-dash, which resemble other punctuation marks, it is desirable to have these punctuation marks sort at the same point in the collating sequence. As it happens, the hyphen-minus sorts before all the letters; but the en-dash sorts after the letters. Therefore, when an article title contains an en-dash, we use {{DEFAULTSORT:}}, and set the sort key to be the same as the article title, except for the en-dash which is replaced by a hyphen-minus, and the parentheses, which are simply removed. So, in the case of Maria Theresa of Austria (1801–1855), we use {{DEFAULTSORT:Maria Theresa of Austria 1801-1855}} where instead of 1801–1855 (with en-dash), which would sort after 1801z, we have 1801-1855 (with hyphen-minus), which sorts before 1801a. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:54, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I put this on the talk page for Yobot, but perhaps this is the place I should have put it. OK, I've been using the key to the right of the zero--unshifted. Is that an en-dash, or a hyphen-minus? And whichever it is, how do I make the other one? (And I'm just wondering now if the answer will help me with a problem I'd more or less abandoned and forgotten in a sortable table.) Uporządnicki (talk) 02:59, 5 October 2013‎ (UTC).[reply]
Uporządnicki the key to the right of the zero--unshifted in my keyboard (QWERTY) is a hyphen-minus. En-dash is not accessible with a single key. Check Dash#Common_dashes for details. -- Magioladitis (talk) 04:54, 5 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. In connection with all this, I'd seen the piece you refer to; the one detail I couldn't find was which species of dash that key represents (it's quite possible I've simply missed it each time I've looked). Also, I've just seen something I missed in RedRose's comments--that parentheses should be removed from Defaultkeys, too. And I gather so should umlauts. Now, I've gotten into an argument with someone else who insists that ONE individual "of Palatinate-Zweibrucken" should be alphabetized under Zweibrucken.
BTW, I had no idea that the universe of the humble dash was so rich! It seems that the simple key on the QWERTY keyboard IS acceptable. Now, I'm trying to figure out how to execute these things on a Mac. I'm particularly interested--for other purposes--in the minus sign. It seems that on a Mac, there isn't a keystroke for that; one needs to go into a character table and insert it from there. Uporządnicki (talk) 12:24, 5 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Funny error

CommonsDelinker has had a problem for awhile with newlines inside image tags. I've reported it but the bot owner is MIA. Anyway, I thought today's mistake was funny. Bgwhite (talk) 07:13, 1 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

AWB

Since I've downloaded as you have suggested the 5.5.1.3, it gives me an issue on the certificate everytime I start AWB of the update-checker.

You were menitioning the 5.5.1.4. Is this available? I can't see it through the update-checker. ...this time I would like to follow the regular update process (if feasible...). --Andyrom75 (talk) 07:20, 4 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Andyrom75 5.5.1.4 is not yet available for regular users. What is the problem with 5.5.1.3 exactly? Do you get an error message or something? I was hoping that someone of my stalkers will help you on this one :) -- Magioladitis (talk) 04:47, 5 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's not properly an error message. It's the security warning that appear all the time we execute an exe that doesn't have a valid digital signature. If I remember well, this warning occur when the programmer wrongly set the compiler parameter. But these are just reminiscence of when I was a programmer too, so maybe it could be wrong... --Andyrom75 (talk) 08:17, 5 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Andyrom75 Then there is no fear. Run it. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:23, 5 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I know it :-))) it's over a month that I'm running it this way, but it's annoying. --Andyrom75 (talk) 09:28, 5 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Schuylkill Navy Page

Hey I saw you had done a fair amount of editing on some pages on boathouse row. I'm doing a project at Cornell University on the Schuylkill Navy page and I could use any help you'd be willing to throw my way. I am on the heavyweight squad at Cornell and one of my partners is on the lightweight team here. We think we've done a pretty solid job upgrading the article, but anything you could add would be great. Thanks!

user:Aaramsey33 Aaramsey33 (talk)

Schuylkill Navy Page

Hi Magioladitis! I saw that you were one of the last users to edit the Fairmount Rowing Association page! I'm making a lot of changes to the Schuylkill Navy Page and was wondering if you had any more insight into Fairmount that you'd want to put up, or photos or anything?

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