Talk:Balochistan, Pakistan

Template:Vital article

Copy editing

• I have tried to fix the structure of the article according to this guide in my recent edits. No other extensive changing such as addition or removal of material have been made.
• Any questions/issues with the edits must first be addressed here (and not through blind reverts).
• A request for proper copy editing has been made here. ~Cheers Samar ^Talk 14:29, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Odd tone of article

Does it not appear that the article has an oddly mining industry/military strategy tone to it? Especially the economy section. Isn't the economy about how well people are doing, not about what the most recent local billion-dollar investment has been? Some changes along these lines had been made, but appear to have been all removed.

Suggested future changes:

Limit the discussion of natural resources to a single paragraph. There is much more that is interesting about Baluchistan. When mentioning cities and people, let's avoid the use of words like "strategic". This isn't a board game.

How these changes can be made in a way that will withstand assaults from whomever removes such content:

Cite everything. Check back again and again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samueldee (talk • contribs) 21:08, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Language image

Language image should be moved to the correct section of Endo-linguistic groups, instead of wrong sections, or below the infobox. Faizan (talk) 11:46, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Your map is wrong Pashto is the main language in MusakhelDistrict (http://www.un.org.pk/profiles/musakhel.htm) (http://archives.dawn.com/weekly/herald/herald96.htm).Also most of killa abdula district is pashto speaking (http://archives.dawn.com/weekly/herald/herald92.htm) (http://www.balochistan.gov.pk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=803&Itemid=1089) (http://www.khyber.org/pashtoplaces/qillaabdullah.shtml) There are no native hazargi speakers in Killa Abduallh District even in the south as indicated by the map, Hazragi is a native language in few neghbourhoods of Quetta. Tigerkhan007 (talk) 20:27, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Etymology

The following edit has been inserted to the "Etymology" section by an IP editor and, after a couple of deletions, recently restored by User:Faizan Al-Badri. As it is unsourced and somewhat controversial, I am placing it here for discussion.

The Baloch people who along with the Pashtuns formed the eastern half of the Iranian peoples. referred to their land as Moka or Maka, a word which later became Makran. Balochistan is referred to in Pashto as Gwadar or Godar (also Godar-khwa i.e The land by water. This Greeks, who derived the names of Iranian lands from the Bactrian language, latinized this word to Gedrosia. The word "Balochistan" itself is of Persian extraction, and was originally intended as an abusive term. Loch in Persian means naked or ignorant. Ba means with. Thus the term Ba-loch implied one who was uncivilized and ignorant. Istan in Persian means abode. After the older words ceased being used, the word "Balochistan" became the standard word for the region. Thus it is fair to say that the original word for Balochistan was Makka, the Pashto word is Gwadar/Godar and the Hellenized/Latinzed version of the Pashto word is Gedrosia. Therefore, in the grand scheme of etymology, the word Balochistan is a relatively recent arrival on the scene.

The doubts that I have for now include: the given etymology of the ethnonym Baloch which is most likely a false etymology; the proposition re. word Makka which contradicts Gedrosia_(satrapy) and the language in general (Greeks "latinising" words, words "of extraction", etc.). kashmiri 08:12, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Details of Conflict Added

Added NEUTRAL details of burning issue of extremism and security problems with verifiable recent referenes from the respected international sources (Al Jazeera ) and "Dawan (largest pakistani newspaper) and Pakistan Human Rights Commission Vdhillon (talk) 12:34, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Wrong informaiton

The information coming for this link http://www.refworld.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/rwmain?docid=47c3f3c412 is completely wrong. The number of Afghan refugees is exaggerated to say the least. I think this link should be deleted. Akmal94 (talk) 12:21, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

EDIT: I am adding this proper number figure from this article since the other source is wrong and outdated.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/822571/law-and-order-issues-afghan-refugees-do-not-want-to-go-back-home/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akmal94 (talk • contribs) 12:34, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

POV edits by 82.11.33.86

At first he was busy in a melodrama at Balochistan, and now here he comes. The Amnestry International is a reliable source, but they do not explicitly hold Pakistani Army responsible for this. And that's an outdated report. Faizan (talk) 16:50, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

He has been warned over this constant POV-Pushing for so many times, but he simply refuses to understand. He already has a RfC on the subject here and had been explained and clarified by many editors tediously, still he wont stop pushing his POV by citing sources which say absolutely nothing about and does not support the addition he have been making. He probably thinks that by citing any random source to a POV edit will make it legit.—TripWire ^talk 05:45, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

“Human rights abuses attributed to the security agencies” From the source 82.11.33.86 (talk) 07:05, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

When this stuff was going down yesterday, I wasn't aware of the POV history. I do, however, think that something like human rights violations in the region should be mentioned in the article. I added something yesterday, and do think that perhaps a shorter version of it belongs in the lead. It seems to be a pretty big deal. IP: You need to find better references, like news websites. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 14:38, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: Amnesty and Human rights watch are eligible? I added them. It is all deleted again now so I tag for POV as is no neutral to delete the info on atrocities 82.11.33.86 (talk) 16:45, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

• Comment: The content IP 82.11.33.86 keeps adding needs to be presented in a neutral tone, supported by reliable sources. The unexplained removal of this content by a different IP editor, 82.132.233.138, is inappropriate and they need to discuss the removal. The allegations of human rights violations is significant, which is why there is a whole article on it. It is intuitive to me that this significant ongoing event should have at least a brief mention in this article. What I submitted in this edit is a three sentence summary of the allegations, which I think is reasonable. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:02, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Observations on POV Edits by 82.11.33.86

• Comment: The issue may be made a passing reference here and thus I agree with Cyphoidbomb. However, I have following observations, and if need be, they can be further discussed here:

• There is no need to mention it in the lede. A full page is there on the issue and anyone interested can straight away go to it, especially when the IP (which is now banned) added the link to the HR violations in the "See Also" section of this page. Either it should be removed or moved somewhere in the end of the article, because readers coming to this particular page are mainly interested to read about Balochistan as a province of Pakistan. If further interested, they can always go to the HR Violations page after they have read the info on this page.
• When you said in one of your comments that "something like human rights violations in the region should be mentioned in the article", I think indicating that this alleged problem do exist in Balochistan should suffice, instead of giving detailed info like "20,000 people over the years, and in 2014 a mass grave containing 169 bodies was found in the Khuzdar district" in the summary and that too in the lede is a bit like shifting the focus of the reader away from the actual subject i.e the Land of Balochistan. Moreover, we all know that there's no exact proof of these disappearances and most of it is propaganda. I can provide reference if need be, but there is no denying the fact that there is some problem related to HR violations in the Province. Also, taking the words of Mr Ashraf Sherjan, someone who is not even living in Balochistan (he operates from Germany) and have probably never visited Pakistan at its face-value is unjustified. If someone tomorrow from the PKMAP Party (a leading political party in Balochistan) will get up and say that there are no abductions or reduce the figures down to let's say 1000, would wikipedia also accept that at its face-value? Moreover, the issue of mass graves is quite controversial. Terrorists organizations like BLA and BRA have been killing and dumping non-Balochs since long, many a time these graves were found to be of people who opposed the idea of free Balochistan and were indeed opponents of people like Sherjan. The reference to this info says: The graves contained at least 169 bodies. Only three of the persons have been identified as previously abducted persons who were picked up from their homes by Pakistani paramilitary forces. "The rest of the bodies could not be identified because they were mutilated beyond recognition. So, just because Sherjan 'know' and alleges the only three bodies were identified as those who were allegedly abducted, somehow all the remaining 166 bodies too are of other abductees? There's a history of BLA/BRA dumping mutilated body in govt controlled areas and later claiming that they were killed by security forces, similarly, it is also known that these terrorist groups even at times have killed and dumped their own people in addition to non-Balochs to put across their point and give weight to it. So, putting such a big allegation right which is based on some dude in Germany in the lede is a bit harsh. Please understand that my argument is not to prove whether these allegations are false or true, nor am I trying to say that info regarding HR violations should not be mentioned in this article, we can discuss this part on Human rights violations in Balochistan talk page if needed, but I am only stating that this info and allegations and figures are controversial, unconfirmed and debatable, and thus so putting these up as facts in portions in the lede is not correct.
• The words 'Pakistani Army' in "Since 1999 the Pakistani army has been accused of committing human rights violations" is totally incorrect. Because since the past decade no military operation is underway in Balochistan by Pakistan Army, this happened when General Kiyani, COAS ordered all minor and major operations stopped inside Balochistan by the Army. So, there's no military (i.e Army) operating in Balochistan. These allegations are against 'security forces' which can include the Police, FC or Levies. So I suggest tht 'Pakistani army' should be replaced with words like security forces, security agencies, Police or LEA etc, because accusing the Army is factually incorrect, as no Army is operating there and when there is no operation underway and the Army has not been called 'In Aid of Civil Power', it is impossible for the Army to undertake any overt or covert action. Yes, security agencies like Police's Crime Investigation Branch, IB, FC, FC's intelligence units etc do operate all the time like any LEA anywhere in the world. Awaiting yor response, please. —TripWire ^talk 19:11, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

I will gladly admit that this sort of topic isn't where my knowledge is strongest. I'm going by what the article is saying and using terminology that the article uses. I'm concerned that if we start changing the terms, that we might wind up with original research. I think clearly identifying what the core human rights concern is, is important. From the little I've read, it seems that there are mass "disappearances", body parts being found, the mass grave, and such. I've asked WikiProject Human Rights to take a look at the content here since the debate is a little beyond my pay grade as they say. I still don't quite see the problem with adding a sentence to the lead (once we figure out what prose is suitable for the body), since the purpose of the lead is to summarize content found elsewhere in the article. I'd like to wait for more input, though. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 11:03, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

BTW, the newspiece being quoted does talk about FC and security agencies. Moreover, basing an para of info just on one citation that too in an Indian website which quotes a dude living in Germany and talks about a subject he know nothing of is a bit more like POV. All I want to say is that had this been the HR Violation page that we have at Wiki, it was alright. Giving this thing such importance and highlighting it in such a way, including (doubtful and unconfirmed) figures - the news itself admits that these are accusations and the website is merely quoting 'a' man) is giving undue weightage to it.—TripWire ^talk 11:25, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

It is not a reliable information to be highlighted on a geographic location profile article in presence of separate article dealing militancy in balouchistan. 39.47.50.14 (talk) 17:30, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

39.47.50.14 Your removal of the three sentence content from the article is premature since we're still in the middle of a discussion about it. I don't understand the argument that since there is an article about these human rights concerns that no mention of these human rights concerns is warranted in this article. That's rubbish. That's like saying "Since we already have an article on Citizen Kane We don't need to mention it in Orson Welles' article since people who want to know about the film can go to the film's article." That would never pass any honest academic scrutiny. If the human rights issues are notable, which they appear to be, then we need to make the content accessible in the places we'd expect to find it, which would absolutely be in articles related to Balochistan. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:41, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

39.47.50.14 must have its own understanding, I didnt say that these 'HR concerns' should not be highlighted in he article, however I do have a problem with the way it has been highlighted especially the figure work when it comes up as a accusation and is not mentioned as an accusation but as a fact. BTW, just for the sake of it, would you apply the same standards of quoting secondary sources here when statements by Indian PM Modi regarding Indian involvement and support to Mukti Bahini are not being allowed to be included at Wiki? —TripWire ^talk 17:47, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

I know that 82.11.33.86 had presented it matter-of-factly, which I tried to avoid in my write-up. So I'm in agreement with you on the tone. 39.47.50.14, you should probably consider reverting your edit, please. As for the other link, I'm reserving comment on that. I don't specialize in human rights issues or political happenings in that region of the world. I'm not an expert by any stretch and I'd like to keep the focus of this discussion on this article, if possible. Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:24, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

the sources are solid Human rights watch and amnesty are no propaganda outlets. Seems consensus is atrocities must be mentioned 82.11.33.86 (talk) 21:57, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Thankyou Einstein! Yes we know that they could be mentioned, but that is not what we are discussing here. —TripWire ^talk 04:25, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

AS member of Pakistani army you should not even comment here. And we are discussing what needs be written here. Article needs section on army atrocities. 82.11.33.86 (talk) 10:14, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

You have been reported at WP:AN/I for WP:PERSONAL, WP:BULLY, WP:HARASS, WP:WIKIHOUNDING and disrupting every discussion with useless propaganda including this one. Cyphoidbomb we can resume our discussion. —TripWire ^talk 16:01, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Human3015 dear sir, care to join in the discussion before clicking the revert button :)?—TripWire ^talk 19:18, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Self reverted. Will comment in detail later. Cheers. --Human3015 Call me maybe!! • 19:32, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

And the member of Pakistan's army still deletes content critical of the army he serves. Consensus is for this to be in article, stop deleting. 82.11.33.86 (talk) 15:45, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Reported to ANI. Thanks —TripWire ^talk 15:58, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

CoatTrack Edits by 82.11.33.86

82.11.33.86 (talk · contribs) You already have been told many times that this is an article on the province, not the conflict. We already have an article on Balochistan conflict. Hence, your edits will be reverted per WP:COATRACK. Thanks. —TripWire ^talk 16:36, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Haha, that not policy, go read. Independence movement important part of region 82.11.33.86 (talk) 16:46, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Also, how is it POV to add eligible sourced info? Is POV to delete. 82.11.33.86 (talk) 16:50, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

No need laugh, instead pay attention and understand that you may like to Push your POV at Balochistan conflict after discussion, but NOT here. A complete page where approx 5 editors have tried explaining you that this page is not the RIGHT one to add info which you are adding since the last one month! —TripWire ^talk 16:52, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

By you reasoning we need delete section on Economy of Balochistan, Pakistan as there main article on it. And only you and ip has deleted info, and we know why you do. 82.11.33.86 (talk) 16:58, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

It's not my reasoning, but the reasoning that has been derived after a discussion of weeks! The only problem here is that only you are unable to get any of that and is so stubborn that you simple refuse to accept simple reasoning. You want to asd something, up it up for debate. Simple. Lastly, allow me to educate you, anything which can be sources does not mean that it can be Pushed anywhere you want. Also, the sources you are adding are not correct as they does not contain the info which you are trying to push, like the book you have cited. This is the third time you are being warned not to misinterpret the sources and deliberately deceive readers! —TripWire ^talk 17:07, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Book does have have info, you are wrong. 82.11.33.86 (talk) 17:16, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

comment requested

Should article have section on independence movement? As is important part of region.

This info was deleted.[1]

There have been several insurgencies since the creation of Pakistan. Since 2005 another has been ongoing, and the Pakistan Telecommunication Authority has blocked hundreds of websites created by nationalists and those calling for secession or political autonomy such as the Baloch Hal, which has been banned since 2009, and those documenting human rights atrocities. This insurgency has been suppressed by the use of extrajudicial executions and torture.

82.11.33.86 (talk) 17:32, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Comments

• Oppose It has been said a hundred times and is being reiterated again that this article is on the Province, and not the conflict inside the Province and therefore there's no need to include the info or more precisely your POV here. This means both the 'Atrocities' or the 'Independence Movement'. Please tell me the language you understand so that I can make you understand this simple problem in that language, because obviously you are unable to get it in English. Also, go through WP:COATRACK—TripWire ^talk 18:21, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
  • Coatrack no policy. Again by you reasoning we should delete section on economy as their main article for it. Independence movement is important part of region, and needs a paragraph. Consensus is already we mention atrocities, same needs for independence. 82.11.33.86 (talk) 18:39, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose: as I said, this is an administrative province article and should expand on the fauna / flora, climate, culture and administration of the province. POVs such as these do not belong to this article and as seen in Azad Kashmir there's no section for such there as well even though that region has been a part of 3 wars and a long standing dispute. The information you want to add is already present in Balochistan conflict. --lTopGunl (talk) 19:13, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
  • And administration has lead to insurgency, and mass atrocities by army. Is very notable as @Cyphoidbomb: has agreed. 82.11.33.86 (talk) 19:57, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose This article is already not in a good shape and what this IP is doing is distorting it further by adding irrelevant and WP:POV material. As there is an article on the Balochistan conflict, half of the said content should not even be here. This is the main article on the province, not the military/insurgent conflict. It is troubling to note that the IP seems to be editing on an agenda here, making heavily biased and partisan edits (eg. sourcing content on allegations of state atrocities while ignoring the insurgency led by terrorist groups), in defiance of WP:DUE and WP:NPOV. It is a simple way to WP:COATRACK the article. Mar4d (talk) 11:27, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose - Either stop edit-warring, or stop creating pointless RfCs. Baloch Hal is a red link, is is that notable that its blockage makes this info eligible of a place in this article. Balochistan conflict is the only relevant article. Faizan (talk) 14:28, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
• Compromise - One paragraph can't be called WP:COATRACK but might be undue weight if there is nothing else about politics in balochistan in the article. My suggestion: include paragraph on separatism as part of a Politics section. Include mention of poverty (deleted here) comparing the increase to that of other provinces and move it from the beginning of Economy section. (Editor is randomly assigned from Wikipedia:Feedback request service) --BoogaLouie (talk) 15:39, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

I Oppose this compromise solution. The only solution is as I commented above, the complete removal of exaggerated text from here, we already have relevant articles instead. Faizan (talk) 18:06, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Do you have perhaps a reason for your opposition? --BoogaLouie (talk) 20:45, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes, COAT. This is the irrelevant article. Faizan (talk) 20:55, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

This is an article on Balochistan. Poverty in Balochistan is relevent to Balochistan. A separatist insurgency in Balochistan is relevent to Balochistan. A coatrack article has been edited "to make a point" about "tangential subjects" and "fails to give a truthful impression of the subject." (From COAT)

How does adding a paragraph on what the BBC says is a "long-running insurgency [that] is all about greater political autonomy and the conflict [that] has been brutal, with human rights groups accusing security forces of regularly detaining and torturing political activists." ... tangential or untruthful? --BoogaLouie (talk) 15:31, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

References

• Oppose This article is on the Province, and not the conflict inside the Province we have separate article covering each claim and therefore there's no need to include the info or more precisely your POV here. Zmaghndstakun (talk) 16:57, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Not a valid argument. The article is about the province, so presumably anything noteworthy that is happening in the province would be eligible for inclusion in this article. We don't exclude information simply because it may exist elsewhere. For instance, in an article about Orson Welles, we wouldn't omit content about Citizen Kane. The two are inextricably linked. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 13:56, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

• Comment Admittance and statement to that effect by an incumbent Indian PM Modi was not allowed at Bangladesh_Liberation_War on the pretext that Modi is no authority and his words have no value, but surprisingly words of Mr Asif has too much value as the same has been added to this article :

In 2009 Asif Ali Zardari admited that there were human rights violations carried out on the Baloch during the regime of Pervez Musharraf, including the disappearances of hundreds.

Since when did Wikipedians have been selective in enforcing its rules and polices? BTW, Mr IP was quite vocal in opposing Modi's statement (verbatim/all of it - not only the part which was being quoted from secondary sources)—TripWire ^talk 17:17, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

TripWire I agree with you. Same situation faced by me; see section election 2014 here on kashmir conflict talk page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kashmir_conflict and arbitration committee on going discussion here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard . Pro india nationalist have made WP neutrality a joke and not allowing elected CM Mufti credit to Pakistan and separatists for state election 2014 high turn over. Read the last para in the lead of kashmir conflict.39.47.109.166 (talk) 17:53, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

• Support conditionally If insurgency, etc is deemed notable (i.e. through significant coverage from reliable sources that are independent of the subject) then some content on the matter should be added. Same thing for the human rights issues. If the subject of human rights is notable (and it is, since the human rights article has stood the test of time) then it seems intuitive that some mention of this information should exist in the article. We don't need to go into pages of detail, but omitting it would be irresponsible. Respectfully to TripWire, "this article is on the Province, and not the conflict inside the Province" is a flimsy argument. We're not here just to talk about the region language and the weather. Politics are relevant. Social issues are relevant. Uprisings are relevant because all of these things are intrinsic to the region's history. Again, we don't need to go into pages of detail if other articles exist, but arguing that the information exists over there so we don't need any of it in here is not rational. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 14:09, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

insurgency very notable, is in books and news. The last Watch (talk) 14:29, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

POV deletion by use Top Gun

Why delete this?[2] and this?[3] 82.11.33.86 (talk) 18:00, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Because as your heading says, it's POV and has no place in wikipedia. --lTopGunl (talk) 19:10, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

How is it POV? I read WP:NPOV, it says "representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without bias, all of the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic." so explain. Also [4] No allegations, Zardari admitted that there were human rights violations as per edit. 82.11.33.86 (talk) 19:41, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

82.11.33.86 please abstain from POV push and edit warring.Zmaghndstakun (talk) 10:08, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Explain how adding info is POV pushing? 82.11.33.86 (talk) 12:15, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Do not add new sections and limit your POV to one section above and get consensus if you can do so with valid arguments. Your tone is very aggressive above which is denying your consensus. Avoid three reverts otherwise you will be blocked.Zmaghndstakun (talk) 17:01, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

"Allegations"

Allegations of Human rights violations is wrong, "In 2009 Asif Ali Zardari admited that there were human rights violations carried out on the Baloch during the regime of Pervez Musharraf, including the disappearances of hundreds" So I remove allegations from title. The last Watch (talk) 14:01, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Recent Edits Which are against the discussion/consensus

WP:SYNTHESIS

This classical example of WP:SYNTHESIS cannot stay:

The province stands dangerously polarised — and the electoral process is under threat by insurgent groups and by separatists, such as the Baloch National Front that has called for a shutter-down strike from May 5 to election day on May 11.

It is now a battle between the moderates who have chosen to return to the democratic path and the hardliners who believe the elections would harm their cause for independence. Tensions are running high. Even members of the influential Baloch tribal elite are divided. The recent attacks on candidates of nationalist parties allegedly by armed insurgent groups reflect the explosive situation in the run-up to the elections. There has been a dramatic turnaround in Baloch politics after Akhtar Mengal returned home last month to lead his faction of the Balochistan National Party (BNP-M) in the coming elections. Just a few years ago, the former chief minister stood trial for sedition. He languished in jail for almost two years before being released in 2008.

By synthesizing two different sentences which have different connotations and adding a little citation, cannot make an addition correct. As shown above, the two bold sentences have been cheery picked and connected to dd info to the page, which is unacceptable.—TripWire ^talk 14:42, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Is only 1 source, how is it 2? The last Watch (talk) 14:20, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Did you read this: If a single source says "A" in one context, and "B" in another, without connecting them, and does not provide an argument of "therefore C", then "therefore C" cannot be used in any article.?—TripWire ^talk 14:35, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

I am responsible for the edit and its alleged synthesizing. I would argue it is summarizing not synthesizing. "A" and "B" are both about political conditions in the province. The paragraph has to be short -- something TripWire -- must agree with as he has protested excessive length on any issue dealing with nationalist insurgency, human rights abuse or dissent and dissatisfaction in general in the province. --BoogaLouie (talk) 22:48, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Culture

This is not how you define culture at a page which is about the geography, history and the people:

the Baloch people are denied the right to use their language and also denied their cultural rights

—TripWire ^talk 14:42, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Is their culture being denied, so belong here. The last Watch (talk) 14:18, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Haha, right. No comments, or else you would say I call you stupid. —TripWire ^talk 14:35, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Stop attacks, you warned once already. If culture suppressed then it belong in culture section, so I restore it and human rights part. The last Watch (talk) 14:47, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

No one has attacked you. Stop acting like a little girl. I just said that, i wont comment, or else you will accuse me again. So, please stop attacking me instead. —TripWire ^talk 15:11, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Now you call me girl, any more attack and I report you. I will put info back as it belong. The last Watch (talk) 15:47, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Own the article? Read WP:OWN. Faizan (talk) 15:56, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Go on add it again see how long it lasts....86.164.37.238 (talk) 16:50, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

As you have no responded here I put infos back The last Watch (talk) 11:22, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Allegations of Human rights violations

Still no consensus on this. Also, no one knows who Ashraf Sherjan is. For all we know he is not even Pakistani/Baloch. Pakistan dont acknowledge a dude in Germany nor does it accepts what he says. We cannot include any accusation by any Tommy, Dickie and Hamesh just because he will exaggerate everything to make news. Lastly, as being discussed at Mukti Bahini, if the statement and acknowledgment by a sitting Indian PM Modi cannot be included at Wiki, how can a similar statement and acknowledgment by a Pakistani can be included here? —TripWire ^talk 14:16, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Consensus above, you agree[5] to add facts. The last Watch (talk) 14:19, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Consensus was to add something tangible, not an accusation and allegation by a dude in Germany whom no one knows, nor was the consensus for adding Mr Asif's statement. Recheck, please.—TripWire ^talk 14:35, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

What "dude in Germany"? sources was Human Rights Watch and ibtimes The last Watch (talk) 14:44, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

The source quotes a dude in Germany. If a dude who happens to be the Indian Prime Minister cannot be quoted here at Wikipedia, seriously, an unknown dude has no worth here either. —TripWire ^talk 15:09, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

If he unknow as you allege, then why he interviewed? "The murder of Sabeen Mahmud on Friday has turned the spotlight on Pakistan's conflict-ridden Balochistan province and the Islamic country's powerful army's human rights violations in the region."[6] "Stop abduction and killings in Balochistan"[7] "There are credible reports of continued serious human rights violations, including disappearances of people, arbitrary arrests, torture and extra judicial killings."[8] More source. The last Watch (talk) 15:59, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

As you have not responded to this I put info back The last Watch (talk) 11:20, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Poverty

And why you delete this? "In Balochistan poverty is increasing. In 2001-2002 poverty incidences was at 48% and by 2005-2006 was at 50.9%." The last Watch (talk) 14:49, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Because it gives a false impression as if poverty is continuously rising, which is not the case. This is 2015, and you quote figures from 2001 and 2006? Either say this was the case back in 2001 and now the the situation is whatever it is, either support it with current figures or negate it with the current figures. How can you, in 2015, say: "In Balochistan poverty is increasing" and then support it with figures from 2001??? Every part of your edit is pure POV Pushing! Stop—TripWire ^talk 15:09, 23 June 2015 (UTC) it.

When you have source to say other than one I give content will stay. Is no for me to do. The last Watch (talk) 15:45, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Sorry sir. WP:BURDEN is on you. You want to add the outdated info, not me.—TripWire ^talk 07:32, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

No, is for you to prove info is outdated with sources. The last Watch (talk) 07:50, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

24.04.2015 "Balochistan remains Pakistan's poorest and least populous province" [9] The last Watch (talk) 08:26, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Lol...classical example of POV pushing. Why are you afraid of giving the correct context to the edit and present the sentence completely, as it says in the course: Balochistan remains Pakistan's poorest and least populous province despite a number of development projects Islamabad initiated there in the past.

These attempts at WP:COATRACK wont succeed if you will remain biased and not adhere to WP:NPOV—TripWire ^talk 10:10, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

COATRACK no policy, stop saying it. read important part, Balochistan remains Pakistan's poorest and least populous province despite any projects. You say above, "false impression as if poverty is continuously rising, which is not the case" I prove with source, you have no, so I will put info back. The last Watch (talk) 11:18, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

The last Watch has no consensus

This user is a nationalist Indian ignore and keep reverting his pov. 86.164.37.238 (talk) 16:22, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Furthermore he is now canvassing for support on other users page. 86.164.37.238 (talk) 16:27, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Why Indian editor is worried about Baluchistan a part of pakistan

IP location of problem creater on this talk page raises questions that Why Indian editor is worried about Baluchistan a part of pakistan. This in it self confirms RAW (Indian secret agency) involvement in terrorism in balouchistan. I will soon put different sources of balouchistan interior minister Mr. Bugti's various press briefings on RAW terrorism in Balouchistan. 39.47.216.167 (talk) 16:28, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

No need to write about it just revert his rubbish whenever you come across it. 86.164.37.238 (talk) 16:30, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Cool down everyone

Posts just accusing someone else of being a nationalist this or that don't belong here. From what I can see virtually everyone who is involved in these discussions is trying to push a nationalist POV, for one side or the other, and people in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones. So keep the discussion calm, and comment on the subject of the article, not on other editors... Thomas.W ^talk 16:36, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

If we were to follow the route of the nationalist Watch Man we would also need to add tons of information on human rights abuses across every Indian state he needs to stop pov pushing its that simple. 86.164.37.238 (talk) 16:38, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

What makes you believe he's Indian? Thomas.W ^talk 16:49, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

What makes you believe there is some Pakistani POV? 86.164.37.238 (talk) 16:50, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

I also agree with IP 86.164.37.238 however i will suggest 86.164.37.238 that let us see how good admins like Thomas.W controls the situation caused by edit warrior IP 82.11.33.86 and his new user The last Watch. 39.47.48.151 (talk) 17:40, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

The Last Watch: No you will not put the 'infos' back

You haven't proved anything. Expect that your English hurts so bad that I have to post this in a new section. Suggestion: Read my and other replies atleast twice agian and may be you'll get what can and what cannot be added at Wiki. Stop POV pushing. —TripWire ^talk 16:04, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Well no he won't, what with him being a blocked sock. However I will restore the content, as it is obvious the POV pushing is by you. 82.132.214.166 (talk) 17:53, 24 June 2015 (UTC)