Wikipedia talk:WikiProject New York City Public Transportation

What station is this?

Location questions have been moved to Wikipedia:WikiProject New York City Public Transportation/Unidentified locations.

Maps in need of updating

Chambers Street is no longer a terminal for the J.

But Essex Street has been a terminal for the M for a year now.

File:NYCS map J.svg needs updating. It no longer ends at Chambers Street. File:NYCS map M.svg now also ends at Essex Street. The current official map reflects this. Epic Genius (talk) 19:22, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

I'd love to read that, but my STUPID F%@#!ING COMPUTER took away my ability to load new PDF files!! ---------User:DanTD (talk) 19:43, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Are you able to download Adobe Acrobat? Epic Genius (talk) 20:08, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

I am now. I had to put this POS on System Restore. Let's hope all the other things that I lost the ability to do this weekend have returned. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 21:23, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Sadly, it has no impact on other irrelevant programs. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 21:38, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

My condolences to you for your computer's troubles. I think I should ask WikiProject Maps to fix this. Epic Genius (talk) 01:00, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

I have posted to WT:MAPS now. Epic Genius (talk) 01:05, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

I've taken liberty of updating the M map for you. If you can post this updated map onto the page, it would be appreciated.72.80.198.89 (talk) 13:32, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

@72.80.198.89: The link doesn't seem to work. Could you kindly post it again? Thanks. Epic Genius (talk) 14:25, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Bumping thread for 30 days. Epic Genius (talk) 22:03, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Back to identifying cars

Please tell me I'm right about this car being an R46. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 04:25, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

It is a R46. R68/A doesn't look like that, and to my knowledge, neither does R44. Epic Genius (talk) 14:39, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Otherwise I'll have to revert this one.

New Rochelle (Metro-North station)

The New Rochelle (Metro-North station) has frequently been getting some decent images, but they're often deleted on the grounds of copyright violations. Even if they're all true, somebody has to add free ones that have been similar to those that were deleted. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 04:14, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

A strange page

Comrades, is this an article or a disambiguation page? We already have articles about both stations. Why are all these descriptions and explanations on the page? Vcohen (talk) 18:59, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

@Vcohen: I tried to tag it as a disambiguation page. ArnoldReinhold disagrees, saying that since the AirTrain LaGuardia is almost definitely going to be built, the explanations of all stations in the area, whether proposed or existing, should be on one page. Right now, it's a stub. Epic Genius (talk) 03:29, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, but the AirTrain LaGuardia has its own article too. What is the entity that requires an additional article? Vcohen (talk) 09:17, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

I had mentioned this isn't how things are done here because subway stations are considered separate from other railroad stations. I should've cited a false effort to merge 34th Street - Penn Station (IRT Broadway - Seventh Avenue Line) and 34th Street - Penn Station (IND Eighth Avenue Line) into Pennsylvania Station (New York City) from a few years ago. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 13:00, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

According to the Andrew Cuomo announcemet of $450M plan to build AirTrain connecting LaGuardia Airport to the subway, the train is going to the Mets – Willets Point subway station from where you could connect to the Mets – Willets Point (LIRR station). This seems very clear to me. No need to merge. Secondarywaltz (talk) 14:36, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Even if the AirTrain was built, mention of the station could be on the respective article for the subway and LIRR stations. The AirTrain station would fail WP:STATION. Epic Genius (talk) 00:46, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

Per our guideline WP:Broad-concept article: "A term with many related meanings should be presented as an article on the broadest understanding of the term, rather than as a disambiguation page merely listing variations on that meaning." How are our readers better served with a disambiguation page than with a short article describing the future complex of three stations with links to more detailed articles on each? Also here is a quote from the governor's recent announcement of the Laguardia Airport rebuild: "As part of his 2015 Opportunity Agenda, Governor Cuomo proposed creating an AirTrain option that directly connects LaGuardia to the New York City subway and Long Island Rail Road at Mets-Willets Point Station." [1] Clearly planners at least are envisioning the complex as eventually functioning as a unified station.--agr (talk) 03:37, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

It is indeed a weird case, but the complex could be described with just two articles. For example, in Jamaica (LIRR station) and Sutphin Boulevard – Archer Avenue – JFK Airport (Archer Avenue Lines), in which the former describes the AirTrain JFK's station as well. Epic Genius (talk) 16:53, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

In the case of Jamaica, the LIRR station is clearly the primary topic, a major hub. Indeed I would argue that the article name should be changed to Jamaica Station, since it covers more than the LIRR facility, similar to Grand Central Terminal and Penn Station (New York), both of which have separate articles for their subway stations. In the case of Mets – Willets Point, it's not so clear which is primary. I suppose you could argue that the subway station is primary, since the LIRR station is only open for events. But there is a well sourced plan to use both stations as the terminus for a major new service. Covering that in the subway station article seems awkward since the configuration of the two stations (800 feet apart) is important. I think the short article I suggested would be better. Maybe it should not have been labeled a stub as it does not need to be expanded until there is more sourced material on the combined station available. But rolling all that into the subway article would still be better than a disambiguation page, which violates our guidelines and doesn't serve our readers well at all.--agr (talk) 13:12, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

I agree with you that an article should be created about the hub, but only when the plans become official. However, as the hub is not official yet, and plans for AirTrain LGA haven't even been finalized, it should not have its own article yet, per WP:CRYSTAL. I say that instead, we add a mention of AirTrain LGA into both the existing subway and LIRR articles. Epic Genius (talk) 14:37, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm no sure what you mean by "becomes official." Two announcements by the Governor of the state are not enough? In any case, the criteria on Wikipedia (WP:Notability, WP:STATION, WP:CRYSTAL) is coverage in reliable secondary sources and this proposal has that. And, of course, two of the three stations that would make up the hub already exist. We cover major transportation proposals at the formal proposal stage. We even have a Category:Cancelled highway projects in the United States with many entries. I would note that it is at the proposal stage when public interest in a project often peaks, since then there is still time for public input that could alter, improve or even halt a project. In this particular case, I think no one questions the need for a rail link to LGA, but the controversy around the current proposal in large measure hinges on the practicality of the Mets – Willets Point terminus. While Wikipedia should not offer opinions, covering the known facts about the proposed terminus is helpful to our readers in understanding the debate. Burying the information in two articles with a disambiguation page is not helpful and goes against our guidelines.--agr (talk) 14:41, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Route diagrams task force

I was thinking about starting a task force for maintaining the BS-map route diagrams that fall under the category New York City Subway line templates. Category:New York City Subway service templates could also be expanded with more service route maps. Epic Genius (talk) 20:44, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

Diagrams on List of New York City Subway terminals

(Pinging Vcohen, Epicgenius, Useddenim and Lost on Belmont.) If anyone here is interested and has time, could you please help with converting the SL diagram templates from List of New York City Subway terminals into BSicon diagrams (I'm working on it currently at User:Jc86035/sandbox)? Thanks, Jc86035 (talk • contribs) Use {{re|Jc86035}} to reply to me 14:23, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

(Also, should the diagrams use the overlaid fades (MFADEfq ※ utvSTRfgq) or just regular arrows  (utvCONTfgl)? Jc86035 (talk • contribs) Use {{re|Jc86035}} to reply to me 15:36, 5 August 2015 (UTC))

General practice is to use regular arrows for continuation and the others for track direction. I think in most cases you've outlined, regular arrows are appropriate. Lost on  Belmont ^3200N_1000W  (talk) 21:05, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, arrows ( (utvCONTfgl)) should be used for continuations. Fades ((MFADEfq ※ utvSTRfgq)) should only be used if there's an interruption on the map, but the tracks with the fades are connected. Epic Genius (talk) 03:36, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Red globe lamps

Comrades, do we have a more actual shot of red globe lamps for the New York City Subway article? The present one is too much outdated, it shows red lamps that are currently green, and a brown M bullet that is currently orange. Vcohen (talk) 10:37, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

I forget where I read this, but I thought the red lamps were supposed to be for exits. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 12:57, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Green means entrance that is open 24/7. Red means all the other options: part-time entrance or exit-only. Vcohen (talk) 13:10, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

There's a red lamp entrance at Times Square and 43rd Street. Maybe next time I go there, I'll take a shot. Epic Genius (talk) 03:09, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Expert attention

This is a notice about Category:New York City Public Transportation articles needing expert attention, which might be of interest to your WikiProject. It will take a while before the category is populated. Iceblock (talk) 18:15, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

I can't wait. I've got a few articles I tagged as needing expert attention that I'd like to see show up on that list. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 19:12, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Substation images

Not knowing where to address the issue, I learned through Google Street View that the former IRT Substation 14 still exists along West 96th Street between Broadway and West End Avenue. If I don't capture it this mid-September (which is becoming more than likely the month I'm going to be in the NYC-Tri State Area), would anybody else be willing to capture it, and maybe a few others? There are a few 1907-published diagrams of that old station, but I'd like something contemporary I can add to a future category. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 19:20, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Maybe you can post this at WT:NYC, as maybe 3⁄4 of the active users in this WikiProject can't easily take pictures of substations in NYC. Epic Genius (talk) 13:44, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

BMT predecessor cat

Has anybody here seen my Category:Predecessors of the Brooklyn-Manhattan Transit Corporation yet? I'm still considering a future navbox anyhow, though. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 06:03, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

That's a lot of pages. Also, that's cool. Are you also planning to make an article about IRT predecessors? Epic Genius (talk) 03:20, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

If I find enough of them, maybe. I saw so many that were in the regular BMT cat, I had to sort them out. What I'd still like to see as far as the IRT goes is an article on the Long Island Consolidated Electrical Companies, that joint LIRR/IRT holding company for trolleys. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 05:21, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

If you could create a IRT predecessor category, it would be much appreciated as well. Epic Genius (talk) 20:01, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Sadly, there are very few that have articles. I could combine predecessors and subsidiaries in one category if you'd like. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 15:07, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

That would be good. Epic Genius (talk) 02:04, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

200 images of Smith-9th Streets station!!!

Well, the day has finally come. I just found out that in spite of our efforts to split off image categories for Smith–Ninth Streets (IND Culver Line), there are now 200 images in that commons gallery alone. I mentioned in the unidentified images talk page that I wanted to split off a category for the bridge, and now I realize I have to do it now, before I take my road trip to NYC next weekend. I have no intentions of giving that category a generic name like "Ninth Street Bridge," so before I go, should I call the new category "Ninth Street Gowanus Canal Bridge," or "Ninth Street Bridge (Gowanus Canal)?" ---------User:DanTD (talk) 14:55, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

"Ninth Street Bridge (Brooklyn)"? Vcohen (talk) 17:17, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Interesting choice. Let me take that one into consideration too. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 02:07, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Many are excellent but not very useful official MTA photos about a reopening day ceremony. They, too could go in a subcat. Jim.henderson (talk) 18:32, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

I see that and the reconstruction, but I've already created one for the bridge. I just thought I could add a "Road-rail bridges" category to it, or something similar. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 14:35, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Ventilation

Hello all,

This is a sentence from the 34th Street – Hudson Yards (IRT Flushing Line) article: "The installation of air-cooling systems means that the station will have ventilation towers instead of the sidewalk grates seen in most New York City subway stations." However, the system has other deep stations, such as 190th Street (IND Eighth Avenue Line) or Clark Street (IRT Broadway – Seventh Avenue Line). How are they ventilated? Vcohen (talk) 18:15, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

@Vcohen: There are multiple buildings along the site that circulate air from the tunnels to street level and vice versa. See 7 Subway Extension. As for the air cooling stations, I think there are probably air conditioners installed on the station ceilings. Epic Genius (talk) 02:02, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. So, the current comparison of new deep stations and old stations with sidewalk grates is not correct. It would be more appropriate to compare new deep stations and old deep stations. Vcohen (talk) 13:53, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

That is correct, but I don't know very well how older deep stations are ventilated. Epic Genius (talk) 15:19, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

I see. It's a pity. Vcohen (talk) 16:28, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

I suppose it must be like this. There are ventilation towers, but unfortunately no air conditioning, in the deeper stations. Epic Genius (talk) 19:17, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

So, "the installation of air-cooling systems" does not mean "that the station will have ventilation towers," but the station's depth itself does. Vcohen (talk) 20:30, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, the station's depth is a major factor. However, since the air conditioning emits lots of heat, vent towers help ciculate the air better. Epic Genius (talk) 01:25, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Anyway, sidewalk grates should not be mentioned here, because this station is of another type. Vcohen (talk) 07:47, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I've removed that part just now. Epic Genius (talk) 14:43, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Vcohen (talk) 15:39, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

1860 NYC area railroad map

Interesting source for this wiki coming your way. Has anyone else seen this? ---------User:DanTD (talk) 23:34, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Interesting indeed. Where do you want to add this, DanTD? Epic Genius (talk) 02:04, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Hmnn, so many to choose from. You've got the two Hunters Point stations that could be used for Long Island City station, Hunterspoint Avenue, the LIRR Main Line, the Flushing and North Side, and perhaps the SSRLI. You've got a whole bunch of stations that could be used for the New York and Harlem Railroad. If the Hudson River Railroad wasn't a redirect to NYC, you could use it there. This also gives us some consideration to rewrite East New York (LIRR station). There's good stuff for Northern New Jersey (Mitchazenia, you may find this useful), and I even see the evidence of the former northern terminus of the Staten Island Railway on this map. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 02:19, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

I guess the map could also be placed on an article like List of New York railroads or Railroad terminals serving New York City. The latter also has a map of NYC railroads in 1900, so even better. Epic Genius (talk) 17:54, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Hey, speaking of Railroad terminals serving New York City, is there any evidence that 155th Street (IRT Ninth Avenue Line) might've had dual use as an Old Put station, the way Sedgwick Avenue (IRT Ninth Avenue Line) was? I also thought of another use for this; the Lists of Ferries along the Hudson River, East River and if available, the Harlem River. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 20:21, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Another good use would be at the Long Island Rail Road article. I see some ancient LIRR lines here. Epic Genius (talk) 20:35, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps articles need merging

I propose that The Flushing Line and 7 (New York City Subway) articles be merged, with the superior detailed map in one be used along with the simpler geographic map in the other. Otherwise, the effort to improve the overall knowledge about the IRT line becomes more difficult(deciding which article gets what)Raryel (talk) 17:30, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

I respectfully oppose this proposal. The service and trackage have vastly different histories despite being concurrent. The Flushing Line article describes the tracks' service history and construction history, while the 7 train article describes its own service history and rolling stock history. It's like BMT Canarsie Line and L (New York City Subway service), or BMT Franklin Avenue Line and Franklin Avenue Shuttle. Epic Genius (talk) 22:17, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

7 Subway Extension

Here are two similar threads, so I've grouped them similarly. Epic Genius (talk) 03:28, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Someone needs to fix File:NYCS map 7.svg

See the rectangle on the left-hand side of the image, near where the words "Times Square" used to be?

It's not there on the other maps.

I appreciate AahdTahar's work in updating this map. However, there's an unsightly white rectangle that doesn't appear in any other map (like File:NYCS map 6.svg). Is someone able to fix it? Epic Genius (talk) 03:01, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I removed the rectangle. DMacks (talk) 15:30, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

@DMacks: Thank you. However, is it possible to remove the text "Times Square" as well? It looks unusual there, just floating like that. There is also a blank template available. Epic Genius (talk) 16:36, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Ah, the square had been covering it. So now I removed the text as well. DMacks (talk) 19:28, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

@DMacks: Thank you very much for these revisions. I really appreciate it. Epic Genius (talk) 20:32, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Unfortunately, that's the type of glitch I got when I was first updating the map. Removing Times Square was a pain since it was directly over the river so I had to redraw the whole entire thing, and no matter how much I tried, It would always come out like that. Aahd Tahar

Fixed a refactored comment. 100.12.75.65 (talk) 04:54, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

The File:NYCS map M.svg image needs updating too, as Essex Street is now a terminal since around last summer. Roadrunner3000 (talk) 20:32, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

@Roadrunner3000: I mentioned it above, but apparently that thread has gone stale. Epic Genius (talk) 22:02, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

This will also be outdated, effective tomorrow....

Also, someone with graphic design experience and not too much homework should probably update File:NYC subway-4D.svg as well. (Pinging the map's creator, @CountZ.) Epic Genius (talk) 00:14, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Wow, already done by @CountZ. Man, was that quick! Epic Genius (talk) 00:16, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Pre-emptive article updates

Also, I preemptively updated IRT Flushing Line and 7 (New York City Subway service). Epic Genius (talk) 03:28, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

One question; Once the station does open, will all the images in the gallery be moved to construction galleries? ---------User:DanTD (talk) 17:44, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

@DanTD: Sure. Do you want to move the December 21, 2013, images to a "ceremony" gallery as well? Epic Genius (talk) 18:23, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I won't be able to do anything. I'm going to spend the whole weekend driving up to NYC. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 19:47, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Cool. I just drove up here after a vacation in Florida, so maybe I could reorganize the galleries myself if I have time. Epic Genius (talk) 20:31, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Incline elevators

While talking about the opening of the new station, incline elevators were actively mentioned as a feature causing to delays. Now, when the station is open, where can I see them? Among all these photos (this gallery has already been partially uploaded to commons, this one has not yet) is there at least one image of an incline elevator? Vcohen (talk) 12:49, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Wow. There's another photo album? (FWIW, I'm pretty sure I added the [entirety of the first gallery.) I'm probably drop by on Wednesday or something, since it's near where I need to go that day, anyway. Epic Genius (talk) 22:48, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Timetables

I've begun adding timetables of the first and last trains to part-time services (e.g. B, C, 42nd St Shuttle). Epic Genius (talk) 00:03, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Doesn't that violate WP:NOTTRAVEL and WP:NOTTIMETABLE? Doesn't the schedules change frequently? Are we going to keep updating even if the scheduled departure/arrival times are changed by just one minute? Do we mention the scheduled arrival times for every single station in the system? How about when the first Q trains that run express in Manhattan leave their terminal or something like that?