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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Cooss (talk | contribs) at 04:48, 16 May 2016 (→‎NOT THE FIRST MUSLIM WOMAN TO WIN EUROVISION: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Armenian transliteration of name

Should there be an Armenian transliteration of Jamala's name in the lead? In my opinion, no. There's already a Ukrainian and Crimean Tatar transliteration, and adding a third just clogs up the lead section and is unnecessary, in my opinion. Jamala is only half-Armenian and has had no connection to Armenia despite her small ethnic origin (Previously it said her mother was half-Armenian I believe, however this was changed to just Armenian sometime around a month ago and I never thought anything of it). I removed the Armenian transliteration, stating it was too much and unnecessary, but another user recently added it back citing that some other half-Armenians had the transliterations of their names in the lead. However, just because there's a precedent doesn't mean that it's correct, and also these half-Armenians did not have two other transliterations in the lead of languages the subject is much much much more closely related to. So what are everyone else's thoughts on this issue? { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 00:11, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I would say it belongs. If she's half-Armenian, as the article says, then obviously the Armenian version of her name is relevant and in line with articles on lots of other people with mixed heritage. Jeppiz (talk) 00:15, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've looked back in the page's history, and it was stated that Jamala's mother was half-Armenian until a user randomly changed it to say "an Armenian mother". I've since changed it to reflect that Jamala is only one-quarter Armenian. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 00:21, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It would probably be useful to have a good source in English on her background. I'd suggest we leave in the Armenian part for now while awaiting a source that most of us can evaluate.Jeppiz (talk) 00:27, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Why leave it in until we should evaluate it? It should be left out until we have a source specifically commenting on it, leaving it in despite everything being foggy makes no sense to me. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 00:30, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The situation right now is that the article said she's half-Armenian until you changed it, and you're pushing for the Armenian name to be removed with no policy justification except WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Could you cite the policy for removing the Armenian version of her name? Jeppiz (talk) 01:02, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've now checked several sources, they say her mother is Armenian. Jjj1238's constant POV-pushing seems to be little more than pure vandalism, and an ANI report will very soon follow if this level of BLP-violations continue.Jeppiz (talk) 01:28, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I do appreciate that Jjj1238 is at least discussing the matter. It's rather frustrating to see that some other user has again removed it, based purely on WP:IDONTLIKEIT, without even taking part in the ongoing discussion. That's a rather clear WP:BRD violation. Jeppiz (talk) 08:51, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Surely the Kirghiz version of her name should be included too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.180.36.53 (talk) 09:39, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Fan page

Some of the text in this article is written in a fan page tone. Plenty of changes are probably needed to make this article less POV.BabbaQ (talk) 00:24, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed all the above mentioned material that was fan page in tone. --BabbaQ (talk) 12:49, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Mothernal

Please correct mothernal to maternal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.180.36.53 (talk) 09:35, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Genres

Where are they coming from? I saw indeed in one of the interviews she said she likes jazz and therefore decided not to go to classical music, but I do not see any evidence that she actually sings jazz. Everything I saw is pretty much pop, not other genres.--Ymblanter (talk) 15:43, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I agree. I say remove genres until there's a reputable source identifying the genres she's performed in. I had to remove the genres from the 1944 (song) page too. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 15:47, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Non-English titles

Shouldn't we include an English translation for the Ukrainian titled songs listed in her discography? This is Paul (talk) 17:25, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

where does she currently reside?

This info would be good for the articles. 98.67.188.147 (talk) 18:45, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Kiev. I believe it was in one of the earlier versions but was deleted.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:56, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note for Crimea

I'm sure I've seen before the use of a subscript note for "Crimea" which describes its legal status (a similar note definitely exists for Kosovo). Could that be put in the infobox after her place of origin, because at the moment it would read that Crimea is an independent country, which no party purports.

P.S. I have never been to Ukraine or Russia, I do not have any bias in this dispute. '''tAD''' (talk) 20:39, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

What does it actually mean that her origin is Alushta?--Ymblanter (talk) 20:43, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing so far as it remains uncited (in the section #Early life). We shouldn't talk about annotating unreferenced info. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 20:53, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If that's the reason, it's innacurate for the field in the musician infobox. Origin is for where a person did their first career-defining music, their "scene" if you will. For example, Eminem was born in Missouri, grew up outside Detroit, but his music was first career-defining music was in Detroit. '''tAD''' (talk) 21:14, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Then it is most likely Kiev, but I guess for the time being it should be out of the infobox.--Ymblanter (talk) 21:16, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Removed "Rehmat's World"

I removed "Rehmat's world" as one of three references for Jamala's religion. Rehmat is a WordPress blogger for one, and the reference bemoans "Jewish oligarchs" for keeping a Crimean Tatar oligarch out of politics. The page also calls Stalin a "crypto-Jew" who married three Jews, in keeping with the Nazi conspiracy of "Judeo-Bolshevism". The related articles include "Jew singer represents Turkey", a use of the noun "Jew" for the adjective "Jewish" common in conspiracy circles, and the description for another related article includes the phrases "Jewish agenda" and "Jewish-controlled media". There are undoubtedly better references by Muslims who have a more accurate understanding of the difference between Judaism and Zionism. '''tAD''' (talk) 20:49, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Enough sources for religion?

As anyone's religion is an individual choice which can't be assumed through ethnicity, I'm sure there should be more reliable sources, preferably with a quote, for Jamala's beliefs. There is no mention on the GA-class article in Ukrainian.

Reuters, France 24, Newsweek and Sky, among the top stories, only mention religion in the Tatars in general. There are many people who identify with an ethnoreligious group -Jewish, Maronite, Bosniak - without being religious. I would presume that a first Muslim Eurovision winner would command the same wealth of stories as the first Muslim mayor of London. '''tAD''' (talk) 21:43, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Found a Ukrainian source. Ignore everything I wrote '''tAD''' (talk) 21:48, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

NOT THE FIRST MUSLIM WOMAN TO WIN EUROVISION

She's not the first muslim woman to win Eurovision. 2003 winner Sertab Erener is a muslim woman too. This information should be taken out.

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